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(YouTube) Sick Man arrested for wearing Occupy jacket at Supreme Court. Welcome to the New America, citizen   (youtube.com) divider line 301
More: Sick, supreme courts, government buildings  
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5129 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jan 2012 at 10:08 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2012-01-21 02:58:25 AM
No need to make a federal case out of this.
Of course he can always take it to the SUpree...wait a minnit!
 
2012-01-21 03:11:13 AM
That was extremely professional and courteous. Imagine that in any other country.
 
2012-01-21 03:30:31 AM
NewportBarGuy: That was extremely professional and courteous. Imagine that in any other country.

Exactly.
 
2012-01-21 04:34:53 AM
The Youtube comments are hilarious. So much uneducated outrage.

And it wouldn't be complete without

That is a violation of his free speech.
photochico 4 hours ago
 
2012-01-21 05:19:58 AM
I don't know if you noticed, but play it again, and maybe you'll see it this time.

...

Cell phone footage taken correctly.
 
2012-01-21 05:20:51 AM
NewportBarGuy: That was extremely professional and courteous. Imagine that in any other country.

Imagine that a few blocks away....
 
2012-01-21 08:26:04 AM
Anyone who makes a big deal out of this is, well, under-educated. And this is something one should have learned in eighth grade.
 
2012-01-21 08:29:45 AM
The reply I got in the comments is facepalmy.

"Laws" are not necessarily constitutional. Unconstitutional "laws" can and should be broken until they are changed, in fact that is the mechanism by which they are changed: pending cases give more intelligent courts a chance to rule correctly. Violations of the constitution do not equal legal precedent. Support the constitution, not bullsh%t laws. Anyway, why arrest over this? Why not answer questions? The cop said it all when he said "I am the authority." Power trip.
 
2012-01-21 09:22:21 AM
RoyBatty: NewportBarGuy: That was extremely professional and courteous. Imagine that in any other country.

Imagine that a few blocks away....


Imagine it in the new United States of Amerika (can't say you weren't warned when Obama was elected).

Now that he has the authority to detain you indefinitely, I guess the government will be able to fill those FEMA camps after all.

/wonders why democrats aren't screaming for his impeachment over what he did on New Years Eve
 
2012-01-21 09:46:21 AM
EnviroDude: RoyBatty: NewportBarGuy: That was extremely professional and courteous. Imagine that in any other country.

Imagine that a few blocks away....

Imagine it in the new United States of Amerika (can't say you weren't warned when Obama was elected).

Now that he has the authority to detain you indefinitely, I guess the government will be able to fill those FEMA camps after all.

/wonders why democrats aren't screaming for his impeachment over what he did on New Years Eve


So what did he do that constituted a high crime or misdemeanor?
 
2012-01-21 10:02:17 AM
That guy was a complete tool. Those cops were polite to the end, and that sad look of resignation on the cop's face when he realized the guy wasn't going to return the courtesy was depressing. They don't pay those guys enough.
 
2012-01-21 10:03:19 AM
EnviroDude: Now that he has the authority to detain you indefinitely, I guess the government will be able to fill those FEMA camps after all

It's our own fault for sitting idly by while he rammed the Patriot Act through Congress.
 
2012-01-21 10:15:36 AM
edmo: EnviroDude: Now that he has the authority to detain you indefinitely, I guess the government will be able to fill those FEMA camps after all

It's our own fault for sitting idly by while he rammed the Patriot Act through Congress.


Is Phil...er, EnviroDude one of the people who thinks the NDAA changed anything?

/Hint: Everything in the rider was already allowed by the AUMF.
//Further hint: Even if it wasn't, there was fark all Obama could do against a veto-proof majority.
 
2012-01-21 10:17:17 AM
Your country has been usurped. Get over it.
 
2012-01-21 10:18:06 AM
unlikely: Those cops were polite to the end

Which is a notable exception to the rule. We found the 1%.
 
2012-01-21 10:24:40 AM
Going to go out on a limb here a guess the cops/guards at the Supreme Court have more education/training than your average high school jock with a badge.
 
2012-01-21 10:30:36 AM
The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.
 
2012-01-21 10:36:01 AM
RoyBatty: I don't know if you noticed, but play it again, and maybe you'll see it this time.

...

Cell phone footage taken correctly.


You mean how the officer kindly posed for that woman to take a photograph with the suspect? :D I thought that was especially generous of him.

/That soft male voice in the background.
//I would not trust him for legal advice.
 
2012-01-21 10:36:49 AM
GAT_00: unlikely: Those cops were polite to the end

Which is a notable exception to the rule. We found the 1%.


WRONG. AS USUAL.

I'm as anti pig as they come and even I realize that, while our current police problems are systemic, it's a minority (only takes a few to ruin everything) of police that run roughshod over the citizenry..
 
2012-01-21 10:37:01 AM
06wildcat: Going to go out on a limb here a guess the cops/guards at the Supreme Court have more education/training than your average high school jock with a badge.

It's more like the UPS Theory of Boxes. When you first hire on and not used to dealing with boxes you treat it carefully. By the time you've handled a thousand boxes you're just shoving, kicking, throwing, or whatever because you're sick of dealing with boxes.

Those cops don't have a lot to deal with so they still treat each "box" with care. Those beat cops are sick of "boxes" and don't care.
 
2012-01-21 10:37:54 AM
lerxst2112: The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.

I agree.
 
2012-01-21 10:38:03 AM
At first I was all "what? how does that work?" Then the cop in the video helpfully explained that there's a general rule against bringing signage of any kind into the courtroom, and I was like "ok, that makes sense."

Seriously, not really seeing the big deal here, that's far less arbitrary than the house rules that more local judges tend to institute. Contempt of court, yo, it's a long-standing element of our legal system.

I mean, what exactly are we supposed to be outraged about? Oh, no, this occupy protester had to follow a rule that everyone else has to follow that's not disproportionately onerous for OWS protesters in any way. The horror.
 
2012-01-21 10:38:50 AM
I bet they'd even let him check his gun at the front desk if he was wearing a "Tea Party" jacket.
 
2012-01-21 10:40:51 AM
lerxst2112: The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.

There was a unified effort on Friday to Occupy courtrooms in protest of the Supreme Court decision two years ago, which allowed Corporations to dump unlimited money into "Super PACS". (Political Action Commities) I'm not sure that I'd believe he was there ~simply~ to observe proceedings, or would have gone without that specific jacket.

/I am only analyzing the likelyhood that it was a "demonstration". Not commenting on if it should be allowed.
 
2012-01-21 10:47:14 AM
EnviroDude:

/wonders why democrats aren't screaming for his impeachment over what he did on New Years Eve


Because that was LAST YEAR. We need to look forward and not harp on things in the past....or at least that is how they usually rationalize his actions
 
ecl
2012-01-21 10:47:15 AM
06wildcat: Going to go out on a limb here a guess the cops/guards at the Supreme Court have more education/training than your average high school jock with a badge.

Assumption just makes you look like an ass.
 
2012-01-21 10:47:35 AM
unlikely: That guy was a complete tool. Those cops were polite to the end, and that sad look of resignation on the cop's face when he realized the guy wasn't going to return the courtesy was depressing. They don't pay those guys enough.

By the strictest reading of the law, the police, by openly displaying their badges, are in violation of this law. ..."It is unlawful to parade, stand, or move in processions or assemblages in the Supreme Court Building or grounds, or to display in the Building and grounds a flag, banner, or device designed or adapted to bring into public notice a party, organization, or movement. " Link (new window)

According to the law... no one could wear ANY branded clothing into the Supreme Court Building. That includes sports teams, corporations and any other "organization". No exceptions are made for military or law enforcement personal; I would wonder how many people tour that building every day and are allowed to ignore that stipulation? There is NOTHING to this effect listed on the Supreme Court website, Link (new window)

The Police are most assuredly an "organization" and yet they are allowed to dress in their uniforms at will. Why not require them to wear plain-clothes like the Secret Service? Their badge is a device meant to bring to public notice who and what they are, along with the authority they have. That, by its very definition, violates the law they were using to arrest this man on. Again, they could choose to use more discretion to avoid such an appearance of hypocrisy.

It seems to me that this language is specifically left vague so as not to be seen as infringing on the 1st amendment, however by the very manner in which it is enforced, it is, in fact, in violation of the law. Police presence is an overt display of power by the government, and therefor it is a political statement. Whenever the government exerts it's authority, it is a political action. In this instance, I feel they are reserving for themselves the privilege to choose what is acceptable to wear not based on an objective set of standards that they also hold themselves to as well, but based on that which they feel is acceptable. That is why it seems hypocritical to me. I am sure lots of folks don't feel as those a uniformed, armed law enforcement agent ISN'T a political statement, but therein we will disagree.
 
2012-01-21 10:47:40 AM
Jz4p: /I am only analyzing the likelyhood that it was a "demonstration". Not commenting on if it should be allowed.

Legally, one person can constitute a demonstration/protest.

This is something that I wouldn't put too much effort into trying to change, if I were you, since 99% of the time that interpretation results in someone being immune to various forms of suppression while expressing a political belief. I'll take the "not allowed to do it in the chambers of the USSC" in return for the "the cops can't arrest you for disturbing the peace if you wear your che shirt on the subway".

//Maybe I need to rethink that example, the Che shirt guys are usually douchebags anyhow.
 
2012-01-21 10:48:07 AM
www.egotripland.com

Should have worn one of these.
 
2012-01-21 10:48:40 AM
Ha Ha! I hope he does not drop the soap in jail. Eh, I don't care. If you want to be an idiot and wear a stupid jacket like that you deserve to get arrested.
 
2012-01-21 10:50:02 AM
Pick up that can, citizen.
 
2012-01-21 10:51:02 AM
Dughan: unlikely: That guy was a complete tool. Those cops were polite to the end, and that sad look of resignation on the cop's face when he realized the guy wasn't going to return the courtesy was depressing. They don't pay those guys enough.

By the strictest reading of the law, the police, by openly displaying their badges, are in violation of this law.


not after 1967, try again
 
2012-01-21 10:53:14 AM
Dughan: unlikely: That guy was a complete tool. Those cops were polite to the end, and that sad look of resignation on the cop's face when he realized the guy wasn't going to return the courtesy was depressing. They don't pay those guys enough.

By the strictest reading of the law, the police, by openly displaying their badges, are in violation of this law. ..."It is unlawful to parade, stand, or move in processions or assemblages in the Supreme Court Building or grounds, or to display in the Building and grounds a flag, banner, or device designed or adapted to bring into public notice a party, organization, or movement. " Link (new window)

According to the law... no one could wear ANY branded clothing into the Supreme Court Building. That includes sports teams, corporations and any other "organization". No exceptions are made for military or law enforcement personal; I would wonder how many people tour that building every day and are allowed to ignore that stipulation? There is NOTHING to this effect listed on the Supreme Court website, Link (new window)

The Police are most assuredly an "organization" and yet they are allowed to dress in their uniforms at will. Why not require them to wear plain-clothes like the Secret Service? Their badge is a device meant to bring to public notice who and what they are, along with the authority they have. That, by its very definition, violates the law they were using to arrest this man on. Again, they could choose to use more discretion to avoid such an appearance of hypocrisy.

It seems to me that this language is specifically left vague so as not to be seen as infringing on the 1st amendment, however by the very manner in which it is enforced, it is, in fact, in violation of the law. Police presence is an overt display of power by the government, and therefor it is a political statement. Whenever the government exerts it's authority, it is a political action. In this instance, I feel they are reserving for themselves the privilege to ...


You realize that the "organization" refers to a political activist organization, not literally anything that's been organized in the history of the universe, right? They're not banning any material with medium-scale ordering, and the use of logic based on ordered classification, and any species classified under a taxonomical "order", and boy scouts with the order of the arrow patch.

Basically what I'm asking here is whether you're doing the legal version of a physics-troll picture or whether you're genuinely unaware of what "context" means.
 
2012-01-21 10:55:07 AM
tenpoundsofcheese: Dughan: unlikely: That guy was a complete tool. Those cops were polite to the end, and that sad look of resignation on the cop's face when he realized the guy wasn't going to return the courtesy was depressing. They don't pay those guys enough.

By the strictest reading of the law, the police, by openly displaying their badges, are in violation of this law.

not after 1967, try again


You gonna back that up with a link? Not that I don't believe such a law exists... nor do I agree with such a law, for that matter.... but I would like to see the specifics of such a ruling so I can know exactly what to dislike about it. :P
 
2012-01-21 10:56:08 AM
They politely told him why he could not wear the jacket inside the Court building. They also said he could stay as long as he took off the jacket. I have no problem with this.
 
2012-01-21 11:03:31 AM
LordJiro: Is Phil...er, EnviroDude one of the people who thinks the NDAA changed anything?

/Hint: Everything in the rider was already allowed by the AUMF.
//Further hint: Even if it wasn't, there was fark all Obama could do against a veto-proof majority.


Yes there is. He could have vetoed it.
 
2012-01-21 11:08:01 AM
runwiz: They politely told him why he could not wear the jacket inside the Court building. They also said he could stay as long as he took off the jacket. I have no problem with this.

We were all real worried that you might have a problem with it so we're quite relieved now.
 
2012-01-21 11:11:13 AM
Jim_Callahan: Jz4p: /I am only analyzing the likelyhood that it was a "demonstration". Not commenting on if it should be allowed.

Legally, one person can constitute a demonstration/protest.

This is something that I wouldn't put too much effort into trying to change, if I were you


Noted. I won't put any time into trying to change it.
 
2012-01-21 11:12:09 AM
Jim_Callahan: At first I was all "what? how does that work?" Then the cop in the video helpfully explained that there's a general rule against bringing signage of any kind into the courtroom, and I was like "ok, that makes sense."

Seriously, not really seeing the big deal here, that's far less arbitrary than the house rules that more local judges tend to institute. Contempt of court, yo, it's a long-standing element of our legal system.

I mean, what exactly are we supposed to be outraged about? Oh, no, this occupy protester had to follow a rule that everyone else has to follow that's not disproportionately onerous for OWS protesters in any way. The horror.


Yeah, I have to agree - while I'm a huge proponent of free speech, that was kind of stupid.
 
2012-01-21 11:12:25 AM
Dughan: The Police are most assuredly an "organization" and yet they are allowed to dress in their uniforms at will. Why not require them to wear plain-clothes like the Secret Service? Their badge is a device meant to bring to public notice who and what they are, along with the authority they have. That, by its very definition, violates the law they were using to arrest this man on. Again, they could choose to use more discretion to avoid such an appearance of hypocrisy.


You're wrong. What you're saying ignores the canons of construction. The critical part of the quote is this:

device designed or adapted to bring into public notice a party, organization, or movement.

In particular ejusdem generis. In this case we would read "organization" to be of the same kind, class, or nature of the other two words in that list. So an organization would be similar to a "party" or a "movement". Arguing that the police, an agency charged with enforcing the laws of a jurisdiction, is an organization would violate this rule since it is too dissimilar.

When reading a statute like this
 
2012-01-21 11:13:30 AM
lerxst2112: The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.

What is sad and troubling is that you try to portray what he did as 'wearing an article of clothing with one word on it' as if it weren't a blatantly obvious politically motivated act of demonstration... demonstration which is forbidden inside the supreme court for obvious reasons.
 
2012-01-21 11:14:24 AM
lerxst2112: The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.


It wasn't a "demonstration". It was "terrorism".

Dude needs to go to Guantanamo.
 
2012-01-21 11:14:33 AM
Eh. I've seen a lot of courts that ban wearing ANY jacket or shirt with text/advertisements/messages/etc.
 
2012-01-21 11:17:27 AM
Free speech means I can take my vuvuzela my daughters 3rd grade play and blow it after all her parts. If you make me leave, you're violating my rights since it's a PUBLIC school! Don't you get it?
 
2012-01-21 11:23:39 AM
Jz4p: There was a unified effort on Friday to Occupy courtrooms in protest of the Supreme Court decision two years ago

Actually know a federal district court judge. He was saying that they had been asked to clear their dockets in anticipation.
 
2012-01-21 11:23:49 AM
"People get the government they deserve".

This thread is evidence of the pertinence of that statement.

/Enjoy
 
2012-01-21 11:23:55 AM
theknuckler_33: What is sad and troubling is that you try to portray what he did as 'wearing an article of clothing with one word on it' as if it weren't a blatantly obvious politically motivated act of demonstration... demonstration which is forbidden inside the supreme court for obvious reasons.

Yes, the Supreme Court must draw the line as to what constitutes "bring[ing] into public notice a party, organization, or movement" and not allow any exceptions!

i39.tinypic.com
i43.tinypic.com
i44.tinypic.com

You know, except for Christians. Obviously.
 
2012-01-21 11:24:03 AM
heavymetal: lerxst2112: The fact that wearing an article of clothing with one word on it constitutes as engaging in a "demonstration" is very sad and troubling to me.

I agree.


No different than carrying a sign.
 
2012-01-21 11:24:55 AM
tenpoundsofcheese: EnviroDude:

/wonders why democrats aren't screaming for his impeachment over what he did on New Years Eve

Because that was LAST YEAR. We need to look forward and not harp on things in the past....or at least that is how they usually rationalize his actions



Republicans won't let anyone talk about the past. B...b...because of Bush.
 
2012-01-21 11:27:36 AM
FormlessOne: Jim_Callahan: At first I was all "what? how does that work?" Then the cop in the video helpfully explained that there's a general rule against bringing signage of any kind into the courtroom, and I was like "ok, that makes sense."

Seriously, not really seeing the big deal here, that's far less arbitrary than the house rules that more local judges tend to institute. Contempt of court, yo, it's a long-standing element of our legal system.

I mean, what exactly are we supposed to be outraged about? Oh, no, this occupy protester had to follow a rule that everyone else has to follow that's not disproportionately onerous for OWS protesters in any way. The horror.

Yeah, I have to agree - while I'm a huge proponent of free speech, that was kind of stupid.


The guy was given the option to take it off and proceed, and instead he tried to whip out his GED in law on the cop. Now see, had he had his Associate's in law he would've known the difference between a cop and a judge: one's for lawyerin' on and the other isn't.

Now, maybe barring demonstration in the SC chamber is a good thing and maybe it isn't; that's debatable. But I'd bet money that that law isn't "new," smitty, and given that dude was offered two perfectly serviceable options for not getting arrested I'm afraid I fail to see the problem here.
 
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