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(The New York Times)   New definition of autism would exclude 6,270,199,439 people   (nytimes.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, Yale School of Medicine, New York Presbyterian Hospital, Asperger, Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Columbia University Medical Center, Asperger syndrome, American Psychiatric Association, developmental disorder  
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4685 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jan 2012 at 10:04 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-20 08:32:11 PM  
I'm pretty sure there's a reason the experts refer to it as a spectrum.
 
2012-01-20 08:51:17 PM  
And, I'm pretty sure that eventually experts will no longer have a voice in the "vague" criteria of many psychiatric disorders. It will be so tight that only governmental agencies or insurance companies that carry the disability coverage of millions of people will be transfered back to the family to deal with.
It is the trend of the future.
I think much blame can be levied on the abuse of disability claimants, welfare scammers, fake or leveraged illnesses and the people that line up at the trough to get a handout. They have successfully ruined it for legitimate claimants.
Everyone needs a "diagnosis", and, if there isn't a clear definition, you are axed.

/know what I'm talking about.
//have 24 yr old daughter with cognitive disabilities. Thank christ she's now married and not dependant of government support. That whole process kicked the shiat out her mother and I.
///Live in Canada, if that makes a difference to the issue.
 
2012-01-20 09:28:12 PM  
Can't we separate our SpEd classes into different categories? Sure, your autistic child doesn't qualify for the retard curriculum, but that doesn't mean we can't get him/her into a special class that understands his/her needs.
 
2012-01-20 09:44:07 PM  

jaylectricity: Can't we separate our SpEd classes into different categories? Sure, your autistic child doesn't qualify for the retard curriculum, but that doesn't mean we can't get him/her into a special class that understands his/her needs.


Not enough to go around. It just depends on what's available. Smaller cities and towns don't have enough specialists to even perform the diagnoses. And school districts that do testing are getting less money every year.
 
2012-01-20 09:51:47 PM  
Except for submitter, who is clearly retarded.
 
2012-01-20 09:54:25 PM  

lysdexic: And school districts that do testing are getting less money every year.


And vipers that gamed the system live the high life.

Yup, life isn't fair, keep on believing that.
 
2012-01-20 09:56:56 PM  
Great. I get help for my son after 38 years and they're going to change the rules. Again.
 
2012-01-20 09:58:15 PM  

jaylectricity: Can't we separate our SpEd classes into different categories? Sure, your autistic child doesn't qualify for the retard curriculum, but that doesn't mean we can't get him/her into a special class that understands his/her needs


This is what they did for my grandson. He is brilliant and totally aspie. In his special ed class, he actually mentors the more difficult kids. But put him in a regular class and he's just lost.
 
2012-01-20 10:00:15 PM  
Bout damn time ive seen too many kids labelled as aspergers by a school social worker whose expertise consists of attending a weekend conference. The parents then show up in my office convinced the kid is Rainman
 
2012-01-20 10:03:30 PM  

darkhorse23: But put him in a regular class and he's just lost.


I'm slowly working my way back into my anarchist leanings. I really believe that if it weren't for money and government we could find enough people that care about this sort of thing that would devote their lives to making things better for kids like yours. The only thing holding us back is wondering who will pay for it.

It shouldn't be like this. There is somebody that would LOVE to do every job that we NEED. Even the shiatty jobs would be heralded by those who were unwilling to do them if it wasn't for the money thing.
 
2012-01-20 10:06:52 PM  

lysdexic: jaylectricity: Can't we separate our SpEd classes into different categories? Sure, your autistic child doesn't qualify for the retard curriculum, but that doesn't mean we can't get him/her into a special class that understands his/her needs.

Not enough to go around. It just depends on what's available. Smaller cities and towns don't have enough specialists to even perform the diagnoses. And school districts that do testing are getting less money every year.


Exactly this, schools are motivated to label kids so they can get funding. There is not enough funding for at risk kids and schools have figured out that labels bring fed funds
 
2012-01-20 10:09:56 PM  
So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.
 
2012-01-20 10:12:00 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Exactly this, schools are motivated to label kids so they can get funding. There is not enough funding for at risk kids and schools have figured out that labels bring fed funds


Case in point.
 
2012-01-20 10:14:59 PM  

jaylectricity: NuttierThanEver: Exactly this, schools are motivated to label kids so they can get funding. There is not enough funding for at risk kids and schools have figured out that labels bring fed funds

Case in point.


Hey it's hard to type a coherent post on a smart phone after 4 rum and cokes
 
2012-01-20 10:15:19 PM  

jaylectricity: It shouldn't be like this. There is somebody that would LOVE to do every job that we NEED. Even the shiatty jobs would be heralded by those who were unwilling to do them if it wasn't for the money thing.


Until then, he'll live with me till I pass on, then his sister will take him in. He is an adult version of my grandson, they're bonded so much it's wonderful.
 
2012-01-20 10:17:51 PM  
But how will I feel special if I can't biatch to all my friends about how horrible it is having an autistic spectrum kid?
 
2012-01-20 10:18:15 PM  

Jim_Callahan: So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.


Explain how. Exactly. With citations preferably.


With that out of the way, disabilities are by their nature inhibiting of someone's ability to function. If a condition does not present such a degree of difficulty, then it perhaps doesn't really matter what it's called. But, to give a poor analogy, though not all kids with allergies are likely to die from them, that doesn't mean they're likely to grow up healthy and productive members of society if you just try to ignore it.
 
2012-01-20 10:19:16 PM  

ShawnDoc: But how will I feel special if I can't biatch to all my friends about how horrible it is having an autistic spectrum kid?


You could adopt a defective pet? Maybe a three legged dog?
 
2012-01-20 10:32:25 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Jim_Callahan: So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.

Explain how. Exactly. With citations preferably.


With that out of the way, disabilities are by their nature inhibiting of someone's ability to function. If a condition does not present such a degree of difficulty, then it perhaps doesn't really matter what it's called. But, to give a poor analogy, though not all kids with allergies are likely to die from them, that doesn't mean they're likely to grow up healthy and productive members of society if you just try to ignore it.


Basically, so many people are being diagnosed at a rate much higher than what is expected for a disability of this type that the ultimate conclusion has to be that it is not a disability, and instead a normal(even if unusual) human condition. This is a bad thing.
 
2012-01-20 10:38:49 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Jim_Callahan: So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.

Explain how. Exactly. With citations preferably.


With that out of the way, disabilities are by their nature inhibiting of someone's ability to function. If a condition does not present such a degree of difficulty, then it perhaps doesn't really matter what it's called. But, to give a poor analogy, though not all kids with allergies are likely to die from them, that doesn't mean they're likely to grow up healthy and productive members of society if you just try to ignore it.


Certainly over diagnosis or inappropriate diagnosis has led to a perception of an epidemic and public demands for research into causes, money that could be better spent elsewhere
 
2012-01-20 10:48:42 PM  

bhcompy: LowbrowDeluxe: Jim_Callahan: So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.

Explain how. Exactly. With citations preferably.


With that out of the way, disabilities are by their nature inhibiting of someone's ability to function. If a condition does not present such a degree of difficulty, then it perhaps doesn't really matter what it's called. But, to give a poor analogy, though not all kids with allergies are likely to die from them, that doesn't mean they're likely to grow up healthy and productive members of society if you just try to ignore it.

Basically, so many people are being diagnosed at a rate much higher than what is expected for a disability of this type that the ultimate conclusion has to be that it is not a disability, and instead a normal(even if unusual) human condition. This is a bad thing.


Not to mention being on trazodone, Risperdal, Lexapro, Cogentin, Flexeril, Provigil, and Concerta all at once would kind of suck if you didn't actually need them.

Actually, it probably kind of sucks either way...
 
2012-01-20 10:50:12 PM  
cache.ohinternet.com
"Yeah. Hmmh. This.... this is just typical of the people who are afraid of autistic individuals and what not. They just want I'll bet this has something to do with that dang dirty Jew at the Game Place who had me kicked out for quote-unquote, "scaring his customers away". Godbear will smite them all! Hmmhhh..."
 
2012-01-20 10:56:21 PM  
I know some autistic people, which is all the more reason I think about 90% of the people who claim to be, especially those claiming to have Asperger's are so completely full of crap.

Besides, under the old definition anyone could have autism on a bad day. Not that this spectrum nonsense works in the current insurance schema either.... but it's a step in the right direction.

There's a certain point where you're just quirky or not likable. If it hasn't risen to the level of disorder, no one does - or should - care.
 
2012-01-20 10:57:46 PM  
Good. The spectrum of there-nothing-wrong-with-you-so-man-up needs to be more inclusive.
 
2012-01-20 10:57:51 PM  
Here's a summary of TFA, complete with what I pulled from in between the lines:

- Someone in the American Psychiatric Association accepted a deal under the table from some committee in Congress which requires him/her to do something to reduce the amount of money the state is shelling out for a ridiculously over-diagnosed disease, in return for which said APA member gains the required support and/or connections to finishing making the jump from doctor to politician, where the real money is.

- Parents are concerned about the fight they're about to be forced to wage in order to keep the services their snowflake needs.

- Parents who were successful in scoring one of the millions of bogus diagnoses are now freaking about about their Social Security Disability score being cut off.

- My tin foil hat manufacturer profits.
 
2012-01-20 11:03:07 PM  
Congratulations, you don't have a mental disability. You're just an asshole for no good reason.
 
2012-01-20 11:04:09 PM  
This worries me, as I'm on government benefits as well as recieve disability services in college for aspergers. Either that or PDD-NOS. I can't remember which is which. If that gets yanked, I lose the ability to pay rent, healthcare, and considering I got fired from 10 hour a week janitor position from stress meltdowns from talking to people? Yeah, this would be a death sentence for me. No doubt about it.
I mean I do feel guilty that I'm essentially leeching off others since I can't be useful by myself like a normal person. I even want to find a job once I get out of college and start contributing taxes to help pay back what I feel I owe. One class at a time though or I crack.
So this worries me, but at the same time, if they decide that I'm not really disabled and toss me out to die, at least the guilt of being a leech would end.
 
2012-01-20 11:09:08 PM  
I used to be a substitute teacher in a poverty school district (don't think inner-city, think white trash, where I came from), and I see the exploitation of mental disorder diagnosis. Any child who gets diagnosed with any learning disability gets a passing grade if they "try." So basically, fill in one answer, hand in your test, and collect your diploma. I'm not saying none of these kids are impaired, but most of them aren't and they're being robbed of an education by a system that doesn't challenge them or require them to work for anything.

There are real autistic children who genuinely have special needs, but to pretend that over-diagnosis isn't a real problem is just ignorant.
 
2012-01-20 11:10:19 PM  
*people. Not kids.

Definitely not trying to say adult autism doesnt exist.
 
2012-01-20 11:13:38 PM  
So this is more of a way for governments to reclassify the disorder and use that to deny coverage. All likely to save taxpayer money for more riot gear.
 
2012-01-20 11:21:10 PM  
So vaccines are safe?
 
2012-01-20 11:21:54 PM  

Sleazy_as_Pie: I used to be a substitute teacher in a poverty school district (don't think inner-city, think white trash, where I came from), and I see the exploitation of mental disorder diagnosis. Any child who gets diagnosed with any learning disability gets a passing grade if they "try." So basically, fill in one answer, hand in your test, and collect your diploma. I'm not saying none of these kids are impaired, but most of them aren't and they're being robbed of an education by a system that doesn't challenge them or require them to work for anything.


I've seen equally bad if not worse conditions in college. Our center for disabled students must get a commission for every kid they sign up with a disorder. If you teach a large lecture-hall class, you can basically guarantee you'll have at least a half-dozen students come in with forms that basically require you to give them double-time on exams, a quiet room to themselves with a TA on hand to answer questions, and any additional requirements they can think of off the tops of their heads. I had one student who said he couldn't fill in a bubble-sheet for multiple-choice questions - he was supposed to be allowed to circle the answer on the test-sheet instead, and the TA was supposed to fill in the bubbles for him so his exam could be graded with everyone else. He wasn't physically incapable; he had just been convinced that he had a disorder that meant he didn't have to.

You have a class of 100-300 students and maybe 2 or 3 TAs. Now you get to have one TA babysit these kids while the other(s) get to tend to the remaining 98% of the class. And if you can't find a way to book an additional room, get extra staff, and make special arrangements the day before the exam (because that's when they'll decide to show up and let you know about all this), there will be Hell to pay.
 
2012-01-20 11:23:54 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Jim_Callahan: So, good? Overdiagnosis is more harmful in the long run, so long as the people excluded are functional I don't really see the issue.

Explain how. Exactly. With citations preferably.


With that out of the way, disabilities are by their nature inhibiting of someone's ability to function. If a condition does not present such a degree of difficulty, then it perhaps doesn't really matter what it's called. But, to give a poor analogy, though not all kids with allergies are likely to die from them, that doesn't mean they're likely to grow up healthy and productive members of society if you just try to ignore it.


You sound retarded
 
2012-01-20 11:24:21 PM  

Pichu0102: So this worries me, but at the same time, if they decide that I'm not really disabled and toss me out to die, at least the guilt of being a leech would end.


You're not a leech just because you are/were on the dole over a disability. Don't let that sort of social shaming horsesh*t mess with your mind. People who want to look down at you or ridicule you for being disabled are heartless assholes and deserve a steel-toe boot up the scrotum.
 
2012-01-20 11:43:09 PM  
"I'm very concerned about the change in diagnosis, because I wonder if my daughter would even qualify," said Mary Meyer of Ramsey, N.J. A diagnosis of Asperger syndrome was crucial to helping her daughter, who is 37, gain access to services that have helped tremendously. "She's on disability, which is partly based on the Asperger's; and I'm hoping to get her into supportive housing, which also depends on her diagnosis."

You have to look at a case like that and seriously question whether it 'helped' her at all. It made her a dependent permanently ffs. Could be she needs that, but for aspergers its not what one generally imagines when one thinks of help.
 
2012-01-20 11:52:57 PM  

Researcher: I know some autistic people, which is all the more reason I think about 90% of the people who claim to be, especially those claiming to have Asperger's are so completely full of crap.


That's why the DSM needs to be rewritten. The current umbrella is too broad and covers people who are just regular-grade social incompetents.

I've known a couple people, one a student, who had Asperger's, and for both of those people, they were most definitely "off". The one girl I knew who had it had zero social skills and a complete lack of empathy; she didn't want to hurt people, she wasn't psychotic, but she had a lot of trouble actually conceiving why what she did would have hurt anyone. She was otherwise very high-functioning; she had a solid job and an amazing memory and facility with facts and procedures. The best way I can describe her would be "socially awkward Vulcan".

Her, sure. She had Aspergers. I can totally understand why that's a condition that should be recognized and treated. And it's also why it pisses me off when I see some jerkass decide he'd rather be labelled as Aspergers than admit he's just an asshole.

Besides, under the old definition anyone could have autism on a bad day. Not that this spectrum nonsense works in the current insurance schema either.... but it's a step in the right direction.

There's a certain point where you're just quirky or not likable. If it hasn't risen to the level of disorder, no one does - or should - care.
 
2012-01-20 11:58:08 PM  

jaylectricity: darkhorse23: But put him in a regular class and he's just lost.

I'm slowly working my way back into my anarchist leanings. I really believe that if it weren't for money and government we could find enough people that care about this sort of thing that would devote their lives to making things better for kids like yours. The only thing holding us back is wondering who will pay for it.

It shouldn't be like this. There is somebody that would LOVE to do every job that we NEED. Even the shiatty jobs would be heralded by those who were unwilling to do them if it wasn't for the money thing.


Aww. That's cute....



Ok, no really. Show me the person who farkin loves cleaning out port-a-potties and well... then I'll believe you. But that person doesn't exist. Nor for many other shiatty jobs. There a definitely folks who take pride in doing whatever job they do, no matter how awful, but that doesn't mean they like it. Pay me well to do an unpleasant job and I'll gladly do it - but that doesn't mean I like doing it.
 
2012-01-20 11:59:18 PM  
FTA:
At a time when school budgets for special education are stretched, the new diagnosis could herald more pitched battles.

That is completely not true. Federal law demands that all SPED requirements be met before all other district needs, and they only provide about 10% of the funding to do it in. I run the finance committee on my school board and I can tell you that SPED students they get everything they need. And where does that money come from? First, from the gifted/talented programs and then from the general funding calculations. While a SPED classrooms will frequently have as many adults as children in them and many other students have to be sent to special private schools that the district pays $50-80k per kid for - things like art, music, and some athletics are being deleted and classroom sizes are going over 25. And this is from a top school in the state.
 
2012-01-21 12:01:27 AM  

Dumski: And, I'm pretty sure that eventually experts will no longer have a voice in the "vague" criteria of many psychiatric disorders. It will be so tight that only governmental agencies or insurance companies that carry the disability coverage of millions of people will be transfered back to the family to deal with.
It is the trend of the future.
I think much blame can be levied on the abuse of disability claimants, welfare scammers, fake or leveraged illnesses and the people that line up at the trough to get a handout. They have successfully ruined it for legitimate claimants.
Everyone needs a "diagnosis", and, if there isn't a clear definition, you are axed.

/know what I'm talking about.
//have 24 yr old daughter with cognitive disabilities. Thank christ she's now married and not dependant of government support. That whole process kicked the shiat out her mother and I.
///Live in Canada, if that makes a difference to the issue.


So when she married she became the property, I mean the problem of her husband?
 
2012-01-21 12:08:07 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Pichu0102: So this worries me, but at the same time, if they decide that I'm not really disabled and toss me out to die, at least the guilt of being a leech would end.

You're not a leech just because you are/were on the dole over a disability. Don't let that sort of social shaming horsesh*t mess with your mind. People who want to look down at you or ridicule you for being disabled are heartless assholes and deserve a steel-toe boot up the scrotum.


100% This.
 
2012-01-21 12:11:32 AM  

SteakMan: TV's Vinnie: Pichu0102: So this worries me, but at the same time, if they decide that I'm not really disabled and toss me out to die, at least the guilt of being a leech would end.

You're not a leech just because you are/were on the dole over a disability. Don't let that sort of social shaming horsesh*t mess with your mind. People who want to look down at you or ridicule you for being disabled are heartless assholes and deserve a steel-toe boot up the scrotum.

100% This.


Conversely, pride is good, because it drives you to overcome. Yea, don't take social shaming, but desiring to be productive is not a bad thing. Granted, you gotta stop being fatalistic and put some faith in your future, otherwise, yea, your guilt would end with your life.
 
2012-01-21 12:11:39 AM  
Here's the current proposed definition: dsm5.org (new window)
I think my 6yr old Aspie son will still fall under that, but maybe only level 1.
 
2012-01-21 12:17:10 AM  
Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if I had gotten the help I needed in grade school/HS, instead of spending my time in school as the omega - the only people who liked me were certain teachers who understood some of why my mannerisms were so off. I often feel like I was born with the wrong instruction manual, and I can't read body language at all very well. I was officially diagnosed with Asperger's last year, but suspected it long before that - my authoritarian parents simply believed I wasn't trying hard enough, that no child of theirs could be "defective", and that I could bootstrap myself to normal. I grew up with parents who never even tried to understand how I viewed things differently from other people - they just expected me to get things like other people, and yelled if I didn't. It f**ed me up as a person. The things most people take for granted in social interaction I've only learned through probably the worst way possible - never having it articulated, just trying and failing repeatedly until I randomly hit upon what worked (and getting berated when I failed/embarrassed my parents/was too abnormal in front of other people, which brought shame/embarrassment to the family).

Post-diagnosis, I'm able to understand ways to hack my brain into working at least a fascimile of what I should, but it's hard, and it doesn't always work. And I worry about my ability to find a job, given that a company would probably rather hire someone neurotypical than someone who has social interaction problems but is otherwise very smart. I just hope I can find some sort of job - I don't think I'd qualify for disability as I'm decent at faking sane in public (I just come across as painfully awkward/geeky, and a bit too eager to please people.) I've had it conditioned into me not to show weakness in public (because it embarrassed my parents), so I hide a lot of the problems I have. But I still have a lot of difficulty dealing with normal social interaction, and I think it still shows. I worry about my future. A lot of the new criteria wouldn't fit me, simply because I was conditioned out of it via emotional abuse.

\Growing up sucked - I always felt I disappointed my parents because I wasn't normal like they wanted
\\Especially when compared to popular/thin/pretty little sister.
\\\I see my mother emotionally abusing my younger siblings and I don't know what to do. Especially my little brother - we're both the unfavorites, but he's around her much more so he gets the brunt of it.
 
2012-01-21 12:28:43 AM  
Thats ok. I have obsessive compulsive disorder.
Thats ok. I have obsessive compulsive disorder.
Thats ok. I have obsessive compulsive disorder.
three times.
three times.
three times.
 
2012-01-21 12:29:13 AM  
This isnt what American medicine does. American medicine keeps EXPANDING the definition of things so more people need treatment so they make more money.

Someone must have missed that memo.
 
2012-01-21 12:36:34 AM  

minorshan: Ok, no really. Show me the person who farkin loves cleaning out port-a-potties and well...


What I'm saying is that if we got rid of this "money" business, the people that did the dirtiest jobs would be lauded as the best people. Instead of looking down on somebody who cleans up our shiat, we'd thank them and appreciate them.

Some people will do anything for an ounce of gratitude, and some people won't do anything no matter how much money you pay them.
 
2012-01-21 01:10:12 AM  
Did you self diagnose yourself based on an article you read on the internet to be autistic just so you could dismiss the fact that you're a complete social fark up?

[ ]NO
[✔]YES

Congratulations: You are not autistic.
 
2012-01-21 01:18:08 AM  
///Live in Canada, if that makes a difference to the issue.

why do you hate America and our over-priced healthcare system??
 
2012-01-21 01:23:07 AM  

Thorak: ...Besides, under the old definition anyone could have autism on a bad day. Not that this spectrum nonsense works in the current insurance schema either.... but it's a step in the right direction.

There's a certain point where you're just quirky or not likable. If it hasn't risen to the level of disorder, no one does - or should - care.


I've had a similar experience, a friend of mine has actual Asperger's and it's simply infuriating to listen to people who claim to be autistic but haven't faced ANYTHING like the challenges she faces every day to understand social cues and interact with people.

Even more infuriating is that these assholes make it more difficult for people to take autism seriously as it becomes the next big vogue diagnosis, like ADD. I don't know where the line should be drawn, but I think it's appropriate for the experts to redraw it.
 
2012-01-21 01:49:07 AM  

Sleazy_as_Pie: I used to be a substitute teacher in a poverty school district (don't think inner-city, think white trash, where I came from), and I see the exploitation of mental disorder diagnosis. Any child who gets diagnosed with any learning disability gets a passing grade if they "try." So basically, fill in one answer, hand in your test, and collect your diploma. I'm not saying none of these kids are impaired, but most of them aren't and they're being robbed of an education by a system that doesn't challenge them or require them to work for anything.

There are real autistic children who genuinely have special needs, but to pretend that over-diagnosis isn't a real problem is just ignorant.


Wow then Homeschooling my three Aspie kids at home is a wonderful thing. I dont pass them for trying. Its either right or they do it over. I teach them to learn. Not to memorize a bunch of useless fact.
 
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