yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

I assume the opium trade is largely a cash business right?

I'm still waiting for some soldiers to pull a 3 kings move on that country

Hatred of americans is evidence of accurate perception

If you let me go free, you may keep my friend's head for polo.

Bob16: Hatred of americans is evidence of accurate perception

Hatred of Bob16's whore mother is evidence of accurate perception

Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

You might say they're ... pissed off.

/YEEAAAAH!

serpent_sky: Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

Everyone said there would be direct or indirect fall out from that.... here you go.

Um...no. I've known guys coming back from Afghanistan for the past decade...they've indicated they didn't trust the locals for a moment since the beginning of this fiasco. This issue started well before a few idiots pissed on a carcass.

Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.



US Marines pissed on my dead cousin so Imma' kill me some Frenchies because hey, they all look alike ?

When you take out your frustrations on someone that merely LOOKS like a person that wronged you it's called bigotry and that is terrible.

They're barbarians and should be treated the same way the bugs were in Starship Troopers. Exterminate them all. First take some of their children to America, raise them to be rational human beings, and release them back into Afghanistan after its been cleaned of the barbarian infestation......

So we can GTFO of there now, right?

You say tomayto, I say tomahto,
You say buzkashi, I say bukkake...

Are these Afghan soldiers draftees?

There was something called "fragging" back in the Vietnam era. Does it get extended from overbearing officers to whole overseeing armies when they are present?

Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

I got into this topic on Facebook last week after one of my friends made a post praising the idiots who did that. No matter how clearly I explained that US military members who would have come home otherwise were going to be killed/tortured/maimed because of that, he and a few other mouth breathers STILL argued that "They blew up the towers! They do worse stuff!"

I swear to god, the general US population are farking idiots.

the obvious tag called - he wants spiffy back

unfortunately, sad and fail have him in the basement with his nuts hooked up to a car battery

strike the tents, it is time to the the hell out of that shiat hole.

Norv Turner: I assume the opium trade is largely a cash business right?

I'm still waiting for some soldiers to pull a 3 kings move on that country

none of the cash is in Afghanistan, however. the Big Money is in processing and distribution, which don't take place anywhere near warzones. troops do have access to some slush funds for development projects, but those are well controlled, and not really worth stealing (tens of thousands of dollars)


One Bad Apple: Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

US Marines pissed on my dead cousin so Imma' kill me some Frenchies because hey, they all look alike ?

When you take out your frustrations on someone that merely LOOKS like a person that wronged you it's called bigotry and that is terrible.

humans are wired by default to be tribal biggots. we have to educate (BRAINWASH) them over several years to break them of this habit, and it isn't always effective.

SwiftFox: Are these Afghan soldiers draftees?

There was something called "fragging" back in the Vietnam era.


That was mostly because of the lag issues. Everyone was using dial up in those days and if your platoon leader's ping time was dragging everyone else down ....he had to go.


/Sorry 'bout that 2nd LT Neidermeyer

>The deadliest single incident came last April when an Afghan Air Force colonel, Ahmed Gul, killed eight unsuspecting American officers and a contractor with shots to the head inside their headquarters.

Jeez. Drug using criminal enlisted I could kind of understand the problem but their field officers?

serpent_sky: Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

Everyone said there would be direct or indirect fall out fire from that.... here you go.

mark12A: They're barbarians and should be treated the same way the bugs were in Starship Troopers. Exterminate them all. First take some of their children to America, raise them to be rational human beings, and release them back into Afghanistan after its been cleaned of the barbarian infestation......

That's exactly what we did for the american indian and look what a thriving nation they now posses.

This has been going on longer than the pee incident. Its now time for a serious debate on why we are there, what our goals are, and whether those goals are worth it from a political and diplomatic standpoint.

SwiftFox: Are these Afghan soldiers draftees?

There was something called "fragging" back in the Vietnam era. Does it get extended from overbearing officers to whole overseeing armies when they are present?

They aren't draftees in a literal sense, although with few other opportunities open to them, I imagine more than a few signed up for reasons other than a burning sense of Afghan pride.

As for fragging, well, if you think those dirty brown peasant-junkies shouldn't be allowed around our troops with weapons....

"Fragging - assaulting a superior officer using a fragmentation grenade or other explosive - was surprisingly common during the Vietnam war. The most reliable figure is 730 suspected incidents from 1969 through 1971, much higher than in U.S. wars before or since." (Link (new window)

Norv Turner: I assume the opium trade is largely a cash business right?

I'm still waiting for some soldiers to pull a 3 kings move on that country

Maybe because that movie sucked out loud ? I was hoping it would be a ripoff remake of "Kelly's Heroes" but even if they got away with it how the fark were they supposed to get the gold (or truck trailer full of cash in your scenario) out of Iraq ? In WW2 all of mainland Europe was in shambles so the idea of a mass desertion falls well within suspension of disbelief. There's no way that works in 1991 or now.

mark12A: They're barbarians and should be treated the same way the bugs were in Starship Troopers. Exterminate them all. First take some of their children to America, raise them to be rational human beings, and release them back into Afghanistan after its been cleaned of the barbarian infestation......

Remember, our side cheers at war crimes and tortures people, not to mention kills tens of thousands of people who really didn't pose a threat.

I don't think we have the moral high ground anymore.

Let's see here.

The WTO was attacked
The WTO supports free trade
Free trade seeks to lower prices by buying from other nations (removing tariffs to do so)
The farmers in some countries charge much less than us for their food based on the cost of living in their local economy
Our buyers offer them more than the locals can afford
Their local price of food goes up greatly while ours goes down very slightly
People in their country cannot afford food
They blame us for raising the price of their food and the problems that causes
We think they're "attacking our freedom" and call them atrocious things for trying to stick up for their basic needs.

mark12A: They're barbarians and should be treated the same way the bugs were in Starship Troopers. Exterminate them all. First take some of their children to America, raise them to be rational human beings, and release them back into Afghanistan after its been cleaned of the barbarian infestation......

You do realize that the joke was on the imperialist humans who provoked the bugs by invading their space with a religious colony, right? And that the conclusion of the movie is ambiguous by suggesting that "they'll win", and that the humans are having to send 14 year olds into combat to keep up with a never-ending conflict?

Or perhaps my sarcasm detector is acting up again...?

serpent_sky: Damn my quickness to post: in addition, if they are killing the people training them, that seems to me like it's a good time to stop training them, leave them to their own devices and bomb the hell out of the country if they get out of line again -- using no ground forces.

This. And no need to wait until they 'get out of line again'.

Glass.
Parking.
Lot.

Something must have changed in the mid 60's. There must have been some bad acid going around Kabul. Or someone's army or something.

Oh, well. Now there's another pipeline planned half way around the world from there. And most of the people speak English.

Maybe in 50 years, the Chinese will wonder why they ever tried to liberate the Afghans.

One Bad Apple: Norv Turner: I assume the opium trade is largely a cash business right?

I'm still waiting for some soldiers to pull a 3 kings move on that country

Maybe because that movie sucked out loud ? I was hoping it would be a ripoff remake of "Kelly's Heroes" but even if they got away with it how the fark were they supposed to get the gold (or truck trailer full of cash in your scenario) out of Iraq ? In WW2 all of mainland Europe was in shambles so the idea of a mass desertion falls well within suspension of disbelief. There's no way that works in 1991 or now.

Yeah but how hard would it be during a massive pullout to stash a few extra crates full of cash on a cargo plane?

Also, kelly's heroes farking rocked

I just thought of something: survival horror game, a la Dead Space, but set in Afghanistan, with US and Afghan allies. The premise is; slowly over time tensions grow between US troops and Afghan troops. Fights break out, and then random murders, and then mass murders, and the gruesome murders. You, as the Special Ops/super duper Marine officer protagonist, are tasked with getting to the heart of the matter. All signs point to escalating ethnic hatred, perhaps taliban operatives preforming false flag operations, but all along it was some sort of....otherwordly desert madness. And then you could tie in an explanation as to why Afghanistan has been a shiat hole forever...bcause its cursed land that holds otherwordly desert madness...from alien demons, or something like that.

A little bit of Dead Space, a little bit of Call of Duty....i think that's an awesome game based on somewhat real events.
.
.
.
hmm, my bro is a developer at Naughty Dog, I think I'm going to pitch that to him. I'll be soooooo pissed of someone comes out with this game first.

/looking at you Kuma

1derful: This has been going on longer than the pee incident.

This. As sick as the urine incident was, anyone blaming this on the incident is a farking idiot that doesn't know this has been going on for years.

See, there's something peculiar about the Muslim mind.

When you invade their shiathole country, kill countless civilians, torture people, stack naked prisoners in pyramids, imprison men and children for years without trial, prop up a corrupt government without improving the shiathole conditions - well they react badly.

Their race is odd that way.

I got into this topic on Facebook last week after one of my friends made a post praising the idiots who did that. No matter how clearly I explained that US military members who would have come home otherwise were going to be killed/tortured/maimed because of that, he and a few other mouth breathers STILL argued that "They blew up the towers! They do worse stuff!"

I swear to god, the general US population are farking idiots.

I really wish you snowflakes would grow up. This kind of crap has happened IN ALL OUR WARS. Guys would collect VC ears and put themn on a string in Vietnam (seen some Polaroids my brother took the morning after night assaults of all the ripped up VC). Crap like this happened in Korea, in WWII.....

It's completely normal and understandable that guys are gonna get freaky with the bodies of those who tried to kill them.

GET OVER IT! GROW THE F'UK UP!

Pull out, and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Time for us to GTFO. Invading and continuing to occupy that country is an inefficient way of suppressing Al Qaeda.

It's sad that after we leave, there will be a bloody civil war that the Taliban will eventually win. People there will suffer. But people are suffering in a lot of places that don't require open hostilities for us to help.

ihatedumbpeople: serpent_sky: Hobodeluxe: yeah or maybe pissing on them didn't help their attitude either.

Everyone said there would be direct or indirect fall out from that.... here you go.

Um...no. I've known guys coming back from Afghanistan for the past decade...they've indicated they didn't trust the locals for a moment since the beginning of this fiasco. This issue started well before a few idiots pissed on a carcass.

Pashtuns play both sides. This is politics for them, not war.

It's nothing personal, unless you don' t play by the rules. We kill some of your guys, you kill some of our guys. But DONT ARREST THE LEADER WHO ORGANIZED THE KILLING! DO YOU KNOW WHO THE fark HE IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU BARBARIANS THIS IS AN OUTRAGE AHH LALALALALLALALA!

In Rush to Transcribe Military's Concern on Why We Can't Leave Afghanistan, Did NY Times Fact-check "Classified" Report?(new window)



The kicker in the final two paragraphs:

So, yes, when we put two armed groups close to one another who hold such low opinions of each other, it is not surprising that one group would start killing the other. So far, we only have reports of Afghan troops killing US troops, but it would not be at all surprising for the converse to occur as well, given the lack of mutual trust.

Why would the Times put out this story today? As I suggest above, my gut feeling is that the Times was approached by military personnel who don't want the US to withdraw from Afghanistan and want to use the failure of training as evidence for why we can't leave now. Note especially how the reliance on training is tied to Obama here: it is the Obama administration that wants to rely on trained Afghan forces to take over security matters when we withdraw. Aside from the fact that when training is described as a success it almost always is attributed to David Petraeus, it seems that this particular argument is being trotted out now to provide fodder for the Republican presidential candidates to use in saying we can't withdraw from Afghanistan. Whatever the reason, the Times appears to have fallen down in its responsibility to the public by failing to do even the most rudimentary check of the claims of those feeding them this story. I found the unclassified version of the report in just seconds by searching on the title. Why couldn't the Times do that (or at least point out that there coincidentally just happens to be an unclassified version that also is 70 pages long)? And after finding the report isn't really classified, would they have looked a bit deeper into the motives of those feeding them the story?

mark12A: I got into this topic on Facebook last week after one of my friends made a post praising the idiots who did that. No matter how clearly I explained that US military members who would have come home otherwise were going to be killed/tortured/maimed because of that, he and a few other mouth breathers STILL argued that "They blew up the towers! They do worse stuff!"

I swear to god, the general US population are farking idiots.

I really wish you snowflakes would grow up. This kind of crap has happened IN ALL OUR WARS. Guys would collect VC ears and put themn on a string in Vietnam (seen some Polaroids my brother took the morning after night assaults of all the ripped up VC). Crap like this happened in Korea, in WWII.....

It's completely normal and understandable that guys are gonna get freaky with the bodies of those who tried to kill them.

GET OVER IT! GROW THE F'UK UP!

I nominate this post for "best use of a Vietnam analogy in a clever troll".

/either that or "most oblivious use of a Vietnam analogy in a retarded clusterfark"

mark12A: I really wish you snowflakes would grow up. This kind of crap has happened IN ALL OUR WARS. Guys would collect VC ears and put themn on a string in Vietnam (seen some Polaroids my brother took the morning after night assaults of all the ripped up VC). Crap like this happened in Korea, in WWII.....

Wrong then. Wrong now.

mark12A:
GET OVER IT! GROW THE F'UK UP!

Yeah, and everytime they got caught doing that in the past the ones caught got themselves hauled in front of a Courts Martial. Like it or not, it's a war crime.

Killing people while under a flag of truce is also a war crime. Should we just "Get Over It" when that happens?