If they'd just have the common sense to remove the words "Microsoft" and "Windows" from their platform, they might have a chance. Probably best to spin off a side company so you can release it under a different brand. But that's just not how MS rolls.

Windows 8 is going to be a little bit all over the place. On the surface, it will have a cool, modern look and feel that's meant to be used with touchscreen tablets. It's cutting edge and friendly, filled with bright, colorful squares and sliding screens...

Windows 8 looks like a UI threw up. It is actually painful to look at. It looks like the sort of thing that might be painted onto a Fisher Price My First Mobile Device toy. It is ridiculously awful.

Yes, yes, I'm sure Microsoft is going to totally dominate Apple and Google in mobile arena. I recall when they utterly destroyed the IPod with the Zune. Man, it just goes to show when Microsoft puts their mind to something they can't be stopped.

Hey, do you remember when Mozilla and Google tried to compete with their own browsers? Wow, Microsoft really showed them. Internet Explorer totally dominates the other browsers and in no way continues to lose market share.

Oh, and how about that time they got fed up with Google dominating the search engine market and released Bing? Woo, what an asskicking Microsoft doled out there.

Everyone hates on Microsoft but odds are you are using their OS and/or browser to navigate Fark at this very moment.

I actually hope they succeed. As a Windows developer, I can leverage my Microsoft software stack expertise on a phones and tablets.

alywa: It really is a broken record at this point. MS is nowhere in the mobile space, and despite Nokia (which is seemingly another sinking ship) coming on board, I just don't see them making huge inroads unless corporate america picks WP7/8 to replace BB once they finally die. I just don't see it happening in record numbers as more and more corporations are looking at iOS (especially with tablets).

Too bad, really. WP7 is nice (I prefer it to Android, but that's just, like, my opinion, man), but I'm firmly in the iOS camp (iTunes / media / apps is a very sticky ecosystem)... new converts into the mobile space have no compelling reason to pick MS over Android or iOS. They are years late, and even with a compelling product, have little chance of being a dominant player this round. Ballmer should have been fired years ago... complete buffoon, completely shortsided.

Yup, business is their best chance at survival. I agree, exactly with you (like it better than Android, firmly in iOS) but Office Mobile / Enhanced Enterprise Security will be the killer apps for this device. Basically it'll be the final nail in RIM's coffin.

Lost Thought 00: If they'd just have the common sense to remove the words "Microsoft" and "Windows" from their platform, they might have a chance. Probably best to spin off a side company so you can release it under a different brand. But that's just not how MS rolls.

Seriously. It's time for a complete re-branding.

Lost Thought 00: If they'd just have the common sense to remove the words "Microsoft" and "Windows" from their platform, they might have a chance. Probably best to spin off a side company so you can release it under a different brand. But that's just not how MS rolls.

As a programmer/writer working for a Microsoft product that was just spun off, in partnership with GE, as part of a brand new, third company, I'm getting a kick...

Trust me, if it was profitable to do so, Microsoft would, indeed, "roll" that way.

Why Yes I Am A Wizard: As a Windows developer, I can leverage my Microsoft software stack expertise on a phones and tablets.

I believe it's still up in the air how much they'll let you use, even on Win8 for x86/x64.

I've got an idea on how to extend battery life on smart phones and tablets, let's put a bloated, inefficient OS on them so that they will really suck.

I am not an Apple or Android enthusiast, but the only people who would want this are Microsoft shills and idiot HP executives.

Unfortunately, MS is trying to eliminate the others by pressuring companies into including an OS validation aspect in the boot code. Hmm, I wonder what would be the only OS that could be validated.

Screw MSoft! They are f**king Nazi sacks of crap.

"Red Hat developer Matthew Garrett in his article "UEFI secure booting" raised a concern that UEFI "secure boot" feature may impact Linux (machines with the Windows 8 logo with secure boot enabled that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will not boot a generic copy of Linux).[43][44] In response, Microsoft stated that customers may be able to disable the secure boot feature in the UEFI interface.[2][45] Concern remained that some OEMs might omit that capability in their computers. Later it was reported that Microsoft apparently prohibited implementation of disabling of Secure Boot on ARM systems.[46][47]"

downstairs: Seriously, what do they have to offer that one can't find on iOS or Android?

Android succeeded because they offered (what many people consider) a better UI, and a more open framework. Like having Flash.

But the iOS vs. Android pissing match aside... they're the market. There is nothing else really to offer that you can't find on one of those platforms.

How about complete integration across your home pc, phone, tablet, and the web, above and beyond anything current offerings have?

downstairs: Seriously, what do they have to offer that one can't find on iOS or Android?

Android succeeded because they offered (what many people consider) a better UI, and a more open framework. Like having Flash.

But the iOS vs. Android pissing match aside... they're the market. There is nothing else really to offer that you can't find on one of those platforms.

Are you seriously using Flash as a selling point? Something that worked so well and everyone wanted so much that no one used it because it couldn't be made to work so Adobe stopped development on it? Really?

What they are offering is a better user experience and tighter integration with services. And guess what? It works. And it works really well. Whether or not they can sell that to the masses is another story but they have a decent mobile OS going here.

And saying that iOS and Android are the market is ludicrous. I can't recommend either to my parents. Remember smartphones still do not dominate the total mobile phone market. There is still a huge opportunity for others to come in a grab marketshare.

/this is only the beginning

microsoft's general strategy in electronic devices can be summed up as: wait for competition to come up with successful new market, wait a few years to make sure that new market is solid, then stick your toes in the water, test it out for a few more years, finally throw vast truckloads of money at the market and hope something sticks, if it doesn't just keep throwing money at it for years hoping the competition just screws up or goes away

bravian: Are you seriously using Flash as a selling point? Something that worked so well and everyone wanted so much that no one used it because it couldn't be made to work so Adobe stopped development on it? Really?

Yes, Flash sucks. But sometimes the content you want is locked in Flash, even in 2012. So while you can feel superior that your device doesn't have it, I can actually watch that video.

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: Yes, yes, I'm sure Microsoft is going to totally dominate Apple and Google in mobile arena.

Hey, it's only been a year or so since they had that funeral for the iPhone.

bravian: /this is only the beginning

It may be, but Microsoft lacks the ability, for whatever reason, to capitalize on opportunities. They have alot of catching up to do, and they are going to have to offer something spectacular to sway people from more established mobile OS's. The thing is, they could probably do it, but they just half-ass everything they do, or they do it right but it is years late entering the market.

I'd like to blame Ballmer for this, and I think he is at least part of it, but there is a culture of complacency in parts of Microsoft that is going to have to be replaced. They need to take whatever mindset they had when developing the Kinect and apply it to other areas.

The irony is that what MS is working against is what gave them so much wealth, which is owning the most popular APIs. I could write a game tomorrow, and hope to get great sales from the 1% of users on Windows smartphone, or I could hit 40 times as many users on iOS or Android.

downstairs: Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: It may be, but Microsoft lacks the ability, for whatever reason, to capitalize on opportunities. They have alot of catching up to do, and they are going to have to offer something spectacular to sway people from more established mobile OS's. The thing is, they could probably do it, but they just half-ass everything they do, or they do it right but it is years late entering the market.

I'd like to blame Ballmer for this, and I think he is at least part of it, but there is a culture of complacency in parts of Microsoft that is going to have to be replaced. They need to take whatever mindset they had when developing the Kinect and apply it to other areas.

Exactly. What new device/software/web service have they come out with that has been the most popular in its category in the last decade plus?

They dominate with Windows, Office. Their server applications are on par with the competition.

Go to microsoft.com- almost everything pushed on the front page is Windows/Office.

Go to apple.com- and look at the variety of things. Heck, "Mac" is merely a link right next to iPad, iPod, iTunes.

I'm not an apple fan boy, I run Windows 7... just sayin'

They also won with XBox 360.

/just sayin'...

Why Yes I Am A Wizard

Everyone hates on Microsoft but odds are you are using their OS and/or browser to navigate Fark at this very moment.

Nope.

Firefox on Linux.

Last windows OS installed in my home was Windows ME RC 0.

downstairs: LasersHurt: How about complete integration across your home pc, phone, tablet, and the web, above and beyond anything current offerings have?

All my stuff is pretty well integrated with my Android. Explain how its so much better?

And if Android doesn't natively support some sort of integration, I'm sure there's a free or cheap app for it.

All of my email, calendar items, photos, music, etc. are available on all of these devices automatically.

Well, it's not out yet, so I can't tell you what the final product looks like. I do know that the interface is going to be unified across the board, so that's one thing. There are lots of rumors of being able to run desktop apps on your mobile devices by essentially using a remote-desktop like function - they run on your PC, but are viewed on your device, seamlessly.

I mean there are hundreds of ways to be better than Android - never make the mistake of thinking that it can't get better. That's true of any OS, btw, before some idiot flips out on me.

downstairs: redpanda2: bravian: Are you seriously using Flash as a selling point? Something that worked so well and everyone wanted so much that no one used it because it couldn't be made to work so Adobe stopped development on it? Really?

Yes, Flash sucks. But sometimes the content you want is locked in Flash, even in 2012. So while you can feel superior that your device doesn't have it, I can actually watch that video.

Yep, exactly my point. Like it or not, a lot of the most useful stuff on the web uses Flash.

It's not 2002 anymore. There's no "useful" Flash stuff on the web in 2012.

downstairs: LasersHurt: Well, it's not out yet, so I can't tell you what the final product looks like. I do know that the interface is going to be unified across the board, so that's one thing. There are lots of rumors of being able to run desktop apps on your mobile devices by essentially using a remote-desktop like function - they run on your PC, but are viewed on your device, seamlessly.

Yep, I can do that too with my Android.

No. You can't. You can't have a seamless, matching interface across your PC and Android natively. You can't have an icon on your launcher that says "Microsoft Word" which launches a remote copy of word and displays it seamlessly.

Goddamned platform fans...

downstairs: LasersHurt: Well, it's not out yet, so I can't tell you what the final product looks like. I do know that the interface is going to be unified across the board, so that's one thing. There are lots of rumors of being able to run desktop apps on your mobile devices by essentially using a remote-desktop like function - they run on your PC, but are viewed on your device, seamlessly.

Yep, I can do that too with my Android.

I can do that with Windows, nix, iOS, OS X... It's just it very comfortable. Desktop apps suck when you're trying to operate them with a touch screen.

NOT very comfortable...

Why Yes I Am A Wizard: Everyone hates on Microsoft but odds are you are using their OS and/or browser to navigate Fark at this very moment.

I actually hope they succeed. As a Windows developer, I can leverage my Microsoft software stack expertise on a phones and tablets.

I browse Fark mostly using my phone (take THAT corporate web filtering and monitoring) so your comment strikes me as somewhat deluded.

/put that in your stack and smoke it

downstairs: LasersHurt: No. You can't. You can't have a seamless, matching interface across your PC and Android natively. You can't have an icon on your launcher that says "Microsoft Word" which launches a remote copy of word and displays it seamlessly.

Goddamned platform fans...

I can RDP into the computer. I can even RDP in as a unique user who has the screen size and desktop icons set up to make it easy on my Android.

Ok, its one more click. Big deal.

Also- I'm not a platform "fan". I happen to like Android. I actually had Windows Mobile 6 for years. All I'm saying is I can't see what substantial functionality Windows Phone can bring that I can't already do with Android and Android Apps.

I'm totally willing to hear. This stuff interests me.

From what I've heard, if they really deliver, here's the potential:

Imagine your desktop interface. You've got a way to click "My documents." there's your stuff.

Now grab your tablet - same interface, same "my documents" button. There it all is, too! And your phone? By golly, there it is.

Now to your music player - all of your music added, playlists made. Go to your tablet, on the road - same interface, same player, there's your music. And hey, on the phone too!

It's gonna be heavily leveraged on internet streaming and networking, of course. But the promise of it all is unity well beyond what Android or iOS can do. Plus cool stuff like face recognition logins, etc.

sure haven't: They also won with XBox 360.

/just sayin'...

I think a lot of people forget this. It's also interesting when you put it into perspective, especially when thinking about living room set-top boxes and subscribers.

The number of Comcast subscribers (the largest cable provider in the US): roughly 23 million.

The number of Xbox live subscribers: 40 million (albeit not all are in the US).

Microsoft still owns around 90% of the OS computing market, with roughly a billion users. There are roughly 110 million households in the US, meaning, and they have a set top box in at least 1/4 of all US homes, assuming 50% of xbox users are domestic. Now that they're expanding into more video content providing (ESPN, Hulu, Netflix, Zune video and music), they've already cornered the living room market. They just need to do the same for portable devices - which certainly seems the direction they're taking, by moving the Zune and phone groups under the same roof as the Xbox folks and branding them all under the 'entertainment' moniker.

downstairs: Kar98: It's not 2002 anymore. There's no "useful" Flash stuff on the web in 2012

Video.

Legacy business applications I don't want to re-write.

Games (though I rarely play games)

Like I said... There is no useful Flash stuff on the web anymore.

thornhill: Lost Thought 00: If they'd just have the common sense to remove the words "Microsoft" and "Windows" from their platform, they might have a chance. Probably best to spin off a side company so you can release it under a different brand. But that's just not how MS rolls.

Seriously. It's time for a complete re-branding.

They should call it BallmerSoft!

downstairs: Kar98: downstairs: Kar98: It's not 2002 anymore. There's no "useful" Flash stuff on the web in 2012

Video.

Legacy business applications I don't want to re-write.

Games (though I rarely play games)

Like I said... There is no useful Flash stuff on the web anymore.

Video and games are not useful?

There are much better ways to have videos and games than freaking Flash.

downstairs: Exactly. What new device/software/web service have they come out with that has been the most popular in its category in the last decade plus?

They dominate with Windows, Office. Their server applications are on par with the competition.

Microsoft has 12 businesses worth > $1 billion (link). 9 of those were not worth $1 billion a decade ago. Other than Windows and Office, and excluding Skype, almost all of these are were non-existent or tiny at that time (Xbox, SharePoint, Win Server/AD, System Center, among several others). It's true that many of these are in the business space, but to act like MS hasn't added new businesses in the last decade is just ignorant.

downstairs: LasersHurt: Imagine your desktop interface. You've got a way to click "My documents." there's your stuff.

Now grab your tablet - same interface, same "my documents" button. There it all is, too! And your phone? By golly, there it is.

Now to your music player - all of your music added, playlists made. Go to your tablet, on the road - same interface, same player, there's your music. And hey, on the phone too!

It's gonna be heavily leveraged on internet streaming and networking, of course. But the promise of it all is unity well beyond what Android or iOS can do. Plus cool stuff like face recognition logins, etc.

Not trying to start a pissing contest, but I can already do all of that in Android. Like I said multiple times

Access my desktop: Remote Desktop Protocol (many apps for that)
(I've even set up a unique user so shortcuts, screen size is optimized for the Android.)

Music: Google Music (or countless other apps, I find this one the best.)
(My entire collection is synched online, automatically. I download an album and save it to my fileserver, fairly instantly I can listen on my phone)

I feel like you're completely missing the importance of unified, 0-effort interfaces. Pretend you're not a techno-wizard, but an end user. You don't have a single interface now, and you've got to manually configure all of those apps to do what you want.

Is that making sense? Do you get how important that is?

You forgot 2010.

downstairs: Ok. I'm getting where you're going. But the fact that android has access to the rdp protocol and full access to your lan... No reason someone can't build all the same functionality into an android app.

The fact that you need to go install an app (even assuming it's free) is already a failure. Having, for example, things like Facebook and Xbox integrated into the phone without being apps allows for a more seamless experience than having to cobble together things that may or may not work together on your device. Android is great for tinkerers, but will soccer moms take the time to install the magical combination of apps needed for these experiences? If your devices just work together the same way out of the box, it's a distinct advantage.

Android is great for tinkerers, but will soccer moms take the time to install the magical combination of apps needed for these experiences?

The all managed to install Angry Birds and Facebook, so probably yes.

Microsoft will be the top smart phone OS in the USA
/The same day that Linux overtakes....anything