Well, we need someone to pick all those crops rotting on the ground after kicking them damn foreigners out.

/LOL'd at the bird flu line, good jorb subby.

Way off topic: Why do the contextual ads think i'd be interested in a $5000 / hour private jet?

NuttierThanEver: chimp_ninja: IQ tests are largely BS, but they at least loosely correlate with future lifetime income.

I wonder what the average cost of each lost IQ point is over a lifetime. I'd bet lead abatement is cost-effective just on that measure. Plus, it's a one-time deal-- you buck up, rip all the lead paint out of the old homes, never sell lead paint or gasoline again, and environmental lead levels would go down and stay down.

Lead is really only a worry for inner city kids who are going to wind up working at their schools as janitors anyways so who cares?

How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint? Cost? Zero.

"Bad things only happen to poor people, minorities, and other people God doesn't like."

\pretty sure I saw that in a republican and/or Pat Robertson broadcast.

...studies by economist Rick Nevin that suggest the nation's violent-crime rate in the second half of the 20th century is closely tied to the widespread consumption of leaded gasoline. Its gradual demise in the 1970s, he says, did more to stop violent crime among people who came of age in its wake than any social policy...

Link (new window)

meat0918: Bad subby. Bad.

Reality: Hmm, science is working as it should.

Response: Let's attack science for not working!

What article were you reading?

jaytkay: ...studies by economist Rick Nevin that suggest the nation's violent-crime rate in the second half of the 20th century is closely tied to the widespread consumption of leaded gasoline. Its gradual demise in the 1970s, he says, did more to stop violent crime among people who came of age in its wake than any social policy...

Link (new window)

The decline in lead use also corresponds to an increase in the amount of entitlement future generations have. See what I did there?

I've been feeding my kids that amount of lead this entire time! It was supposed to be safe.

zinny: How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint? Cost? Zero.

Someone should have told that to your parents.

zinny: How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint?

But lead paint is so delicious.

Seriously though, it's the dust generated from friction surfaces.

/Hell is a 40 hour lead inspector / risk assessor course

jaytkay: ...studies by economist Rick Nevin that suggest the nation's violent-crime rate in the second half of the 20th century is closely tied to the widespread consumption of leaded gasoline. Its gradual demise in the 1970s, he says, did more to stop violent crime among people who came of age in its wake than any social policy...

Link (new window)

That's an interesting correlation, but it's more separated from its potential causal factors that most other comparable correlations.

Did no one else read that as lard? I did. Cause kids are fat.

Or maybe because it says retard right under lead.

mmm.. lead chips.

The levels of lead needed to seriously injure a person depends on the person and how fast the lead is moving at the time.

Clearly we need to be training more alchemists. Problem solved!

This text is now purple: That's an interesting correlation, but it's more separated from its potential causal factors that most other comparable correlations.

If I had time I would find a better link.

But prisoners also have higher levels of lead in their system than the general population.

And the decrease in crime after leaded gasoline is banned happened in other places, too, not just the US.

If I didn't grow up around lead paint I would be a genius. But alas I'm just average.

You know who else used to say that lead was safe for your kids?

No, not him. A guy named Thomas Midgley (new window), who coincidentally was also the inventor of the ozone-destroying CFC refrigerants.

Stupid libs at it again. biatching about a %50 reduction in useless government oversite. When I was a kid I'd scrape lead paint off the walls with a mercury thermometer and I'm just fine. Of course, my Dad beat that out of me with a belt buckle (beryllium alloy no less!). So I don't want to hear about lead paint is all dangerous. If these people stopped living in the "inner city" and had family values we could still have the %100 freedomb to buy whatever kind of paint we want!

How about just going with "No amount of lead is safe" and getting it over with?? Jeez. It's like the FDA setting the maximum allowed ratio of rat droppings to food for your Cheerios. Just grow a pair of balls and say the maximum is ZERO.

We know lead is bad to eat and that although they aren't supposed to, kids sometimes eat things they shouldn't. So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

You mean wall-candy?

Kids today are soft worrying over things like lead poisoning or wearing helmets. My family was poor and used lead as sugar and just my fine are brains today. Epoxy Margaret?

meat0918: Bad subby. Bad.

Reality: Hmm, science is working as it should.

Response: Let's attack science for not working!


Hey, that's the Fox News game plan. Except you left out 'profit'.

I'm sure there were scientists at the time arguing for 5 micrograms, and 1 microgram, and even no-detectable-micrograms... and I'm even more sure there were industry lobbyists talking about jobs and costs, and whispering about campaign contributions. And most certain of all that there were right-wing radio haters throwing out a thick fog of "Regulations!" ... and "Envirowhackos!".

stiletto_the_wise: So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

Because zero tolerance has worked so well in other contexts...

Unfortunately, chemistry doesn't work that way. With a sensitive enough test you will find some lead in just about anything, and health-wise there's essentially no difference between a paint that contains 1 part per billion of lead and one that contains 1 part per trillion.

The Bunyip: zinny: How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint?

But lead paint is so delicious.

Seriously though, it's the dust generated from friction surfaces.

/Hell is a 40 hour lead inspector / risk assessor course

You've obviously never been through the NIOSH 582 PCM course.

Ivo Shandor: stiletto_the_wise: So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

Because zero tolerance has worked so well in other contexts...

Unfortunately, chemistry doesn't work that way. With a sensitive enough test you will find some lead in just about anything, and health-wise there's essentially no difference between a paint that contains 1 part per billion of lead and one that contains 1 part per trillion.

Citation Needed for your health claim. A lot of chemical exposures over long term haven't been studied at levels as low as you're claiming.

/You're probably right, but your claim has no supporting evidence.
//Industrial Hygienist.

zinny: How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint? Cost? Zero.

You do realize that lead has a slightly sweet taste to it right? And what do kids really like? Sweet tasting stuff. So, you could tell them not to do that, but kids, like Republicans, have poor impulse control and immature brains.

Lead poisoning is quite painful.

Actually, 'Tis the suck!

Causes high blood pressure and gout in adults.

Lots of folks taking meds for them both don't know about the lead part.

stiletto_the_wise: How about just going with "No amount of lead is safe" and getting it over with?? Jeez. It's like the FDA setting the maximum allowed ratio of rat droppings to food for your Cheerios. Just grow a pair of balls and say the maximum is ZERO.

We know lead is bad to eat and that although they aren't supposed to, kids sometimes eat things they shouldn't. So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

Because it's impossible to guarantee that there are absolutely no particles of ANYTHING in food. The manufacturing would have to take place in airtight clean rooms to guarantee anything like microscopic insect particles can't get in your food. Have you ever heard that there's milligrams of aluminum in a loaf of bread? Even if it's organic. Kicking up dirt outside also releases micrograms of mercury.

To have absolutely no heavy metals in your body, you'd have to live in a clean room your whole life. That's why we measure in particles per decaliter.


Question: in better-off areas with old houses, like Boston or the Upper West Side, how did they solve the problem of lead paint? And lead piping?
My house was built in the mid 70s. A lot of the walls are covered with wallpaper. How do I know whether lead paint was used?
I grew up in a pretty old house in the suburbs of Baltimore (the rich part; yes, it exists). And my parents were doing lots of home repairs (they wanted to flip the house). I only lived there for 3 years when I was a toddler (like ages 3-6). It wasn't like "paint chipping off the walls" old, so i didn't have a chance to eat any lead paint chips. But I saw paint peeling in other houses and I would pick at it like a scab, but I wouldn't eat the paint chips (scabs on the other hand...). I would just keep peeling because it was fun. But I probably licked my fingers afterwards. Maybe that's what caused my ADHD and sperg. Everyone I know tells me I'm really smart, but I have pretty bad learning disabilities so I don't feel very smart. According to the Woodcock-Johnson tests (yes, that's what they're really called) I have an IQ between 126 and 133. But I have a hard time taking tests and remembering minutiae, which makes studying things like calculus and anatomy hard, and I'm not very good at thinking on-the-spot.

It's really depressing to think that I might have lead poisoning. I wonder if chelation could help me learn better.

/csb

Slaves2Darkness: zinny: How 'bout telling your kids not to eat paint? Cost? Zero.

You do realize that lead has a slightly sweet taste to it right? And what do kids really like? Sweet tasting stuff. So, you could tell them not to do that, but kids, like Republicans, have poor impulse control and immature brains.

It also reduces to a powder that will settle on floors(crawling, toys, etc...) and window sills(pulling themselves up to look out or stand for the first time) and gets on hands that way, little kids love to put their hands in their mouths. HUD doesn't even concern itself with children over 6 years old because after that, they're fairly good about not eating everything in sight.

You all are a falling for the LIBERAL SOCIALIST AGENDA!!!

Lead doesn't cause problems, it is some other environmental thing or perhaps genetic mutations.

Signed,


// Why do you hate lead?
// If there was no lead, there would be no interwebs!!11

colithian: stiletto_the_wise: How about just going with "No amount of lead is safe" and getting it over with?? Jeez. It's like the FDA setting the maximum allowed ratio of rat droppings to food for your Cheerios. Just grow a pair of balls and say the maximum is ZERO.

We know lead is bad to eat and that although they aren't supposed to, kids sometimes eat things they shouldn't. So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

Because it's impossible to guarantee that there are absolutely no particles of ANYTHING in food. The manufacturing would have to take place in airtight clean rooms to guarantee anything like microscopic insect particles can't get in your food. Have you ever heard that there's milligrams of aluminum in a loaf of bread? Even if it's organic. Kicking up dirt outside also releases micrograms of mercury.

To have absolutely no heavy metals in your body, you'd have to live in a clean room your whole life. That's why we measure in particles per decaliter.


Question: in better-off areas with old houses, like Boston or the Upper West Side, how did they solve the problem of lead paint? And lead piping?
My house was built in the mid 70s. A lot of the walls are covered with wallpaper. How do I know whether lead paint was used?
I grew up in a pretty old house in the suburbs of Baltimore (the rich part; yes, it exists). And my parents were doing lots of home repairs (they wanted to flip the house). I only lived there for 3 years when I was a toddler (like ages 3-6). It wasn't like "paint chipping off the walls" old, so i didn't have a chance to eat any lead paint chips. But I saw paint peeling in other houses and I would pick at it like a scab, but I wouldn't eat the paint chips (scabs on the other hand...). I would just keep peeling because it was fun. But I probably licked my fingers afterwards. Maybe that's what caused my ADHD and sperg ...

Chelation would not help, and be quite painful.

As far as knowing if Pb paint was used, you can send in a paint chip to a lab, or you can use an XRF and get a definitive lead level.

Girion47: Citation Needed for your health claim. A lot of chemical exposures over long term haven't been studied at levels as low as you're claiming.

Mostly pulled out of my ass, but cross-checked against EPA drinking water guidelines (new window) which allow up to 0.015 mg/L (15 ppb). I figure the health impact of 1/15 of that concentration, in something like paint which is itself only consumed in trace amounts, has to be lost in the noise.

You know that science we did 30 years ago?

Yeah, we did some more and have drawn more accurate conclusions from the additional data.

SCIENCE: when you learn new stuff, you change your ideas and explanations to fit what you have learned, rather than the other way around.

stiletto_the_wise: How about just going with "No amount of lead is safe" and getting it over with?? Jeez. It's like the FDA setting the maximum allowed ratio of rat droppings to food for your Cheerios. Just grow a pair of balls and say the maximum is ZERO.

We know lead is bad to eat and that although they aren't supposed to, kids sometimes eat things they shouldn't. So just tell manufacturers that they aren't allowed to have ANY lead in their paint/toys/etc. And fine them if even a trace is found. Simple, and doesn't take a scientific study.

Simple reason for that.

Lead in paint gives a richer palette of color, and the paints themselves hold up better. Find a signpainter or letterer (my father was one for some years) and the vast, vast majority of their paints are lead-based.

If you're working as a signpainter and someone asks for a sample of your work, and how they look as they age, it's a lot better for business to pull out a vibrant, rich sample to begin with, then one that looks the same ten years later. Modern acrylics can't do it- I've seen it tried.

Don't let your kids chew on casino-style poker chips. That's all I'm sayin'..

I'll bet lead causes other brain problems besides reduced IQ.

david1963:

I'll bet lead causes other brain problems besides reduced IQ.

I was right (new window). From that Wikipedia article: "No safe threshold for lead exposure has been discovered-that is, there is no known amount of lead that is too small to cause the body harm."

lead schmed. how else are you going to build up a tolerance for the pricier elements if you don't start with the affordable ones.

Somebody's White Knighting for Jenny McCarthy.