In other news, some people still think the Security Theater protects us in any way.

Texas resident, concealed carry permit, owns six guns, etc etc.

This woman shouldn't carry a gun. Never mind that a computer bag is an easy thing to lose or have stolen (and hence, the gun too), anyone who forgets where they put a loaded gun should NOT be carrying around a firearm.

Texans think differently from the rest of us.

So, the TSA sees the gun, fails to stop her after seeing the gun, she gets on the plane, and the plane is going to the runway before anyone stops to say "hey, maybe we should do something about that lady with the gun,"?

This should surprise no one.

Satanic_Hamster: Texas resident, concealed carry permit, owns six guns, etc etc.

This woman shouldn't carry a gun. Never mind that a computer bag is an easy thing to lose or have stolen (and hence, the gun too), anyone who forgets where they put a loaded gun should NOT be carrying around a firearm.

Agreed

CSB time:

I was flying pre-911 and guy who was probably ~75 told the airport security lady that he had a gun in his carry on and wanted to be sure that was okay. The woman said very clearly, "Don't take it out. Don't show it to me. Go over to the ticket counter and tell them you want to check your gun in your in your bag. They'll help you"

Even then, it was a refreshing display of common sense and minimal drama.

It's been 15 years since Concealed Carry started to take off.
Almost every state allows it.
There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.
There have been multiple instances of licensed carriers preventing crime.
The crime rate overall for people with Concealed Carry permits is lower than even that of police officers.

Can we finally admit that licensed weapons carriers are not a risk for doing stupid shiat and let them go on their way? What the fark are we waiting for?

AngryDragon: It's been 15 years since Concealed Carry started to take off.
Almost every state allows it.
There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.
There have been multiple instances of licensed carriers preventing crime.
The crime rate overall for people with Concealed Carry permits is lower than even that of police officers.

Can we finally admit that licensed weapons carriers are not a risk for doing stupid shiat and let them go on their way? What the fark are we waiting for?

Agreed. Abstinence only education doesn't work for sex ed., and it doesn't work for firearm safety, either. Let's teach people how to handle guns with the proper care and respect. Once we demystify those "magic killing sticks", people can start to make rational decisions about their use in society.

Gleeman: In other news, some people still think the Security Theater protects us in any way.

Who? Where are those people?

Other than the few making a profit from it, I've never met one one who thinks it protects us.

The utter absurdity, incompetence, futility, and national embarrassment that is the TSA unites those across all ends of the political spectrum.

AngryDragon: There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.

It's not all sunshine and flowers. There have been some cases of licensed carriers shooting in cold blood, even shooting police, but yes it's a lower percentage than the general population.

Not arguing that concealed carry does prevent some crimes though.

I'll never understand how so many people can simply forget there's a loaded firearm in the bag they are about to take to the airport. Every time I fly, I go through every pocket/pouch/fold/crease of every single damned item I am bringing, just to make sure there are no paper clips or other weapons of mass destruction in there.

/Is it me?
//It's them, right?

Gleeman: AngryDragon: There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.

It's not all sunshine and flowers. There have been some cases of licensed carriers shooting in cold blood, even shooting police, but yes it's a lower percentage than the general population.

Not arguing that concealed carry does prevent some crimes though.

Didn't see any of the cold blood proof listed in that article. Did I miss something?

xmasbaby: CSB time:

I was flying pre-911 and guy who was probably ~75 told the airport security lady that he had a gun in his carry on and wanted to be sure that was okay. The woman said very clearly, "Don't take it out. Don't show it to me. Go over to the ticket counter and tell them you want to check your gun in your in your bag. They'll help you"

Even then, it was a refreshing display of common sense and minimal drama.

Before 9/11
I always used to carry a leatherman tool (which had several 3 inch sharp-ass blades)with me. I would hand it to the security guy, walk through the detector, and get it back.
After 9/11
When I deployed to Iraq, I went through Kuwait on a chartered commercial airliner. All soldiers. All of whom had rifles. They confiscated my toenail clippers because of the inch dull scrapper blade on it. But apparently my M-16 was no problem.

How freakin' lightweight was her pistol that she didn't notice it?

/ Gun owner
// Notices when I'm carrying even my smallest chunk of freakin' steel and polymer
/// Needs to start working out like a 65 year old lady, I guess . . .

ronaprhys: Gleeman: AngryDragon: There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.

It's not all sunshine and flowers. There have been some cases of licensed carriers shooting in cold blood, even shooting police, but yes it's a lower percentage than the general population.

Not arguing that concealed carry does prevent some crimes though.

Didn't see any of the cold blood proof listed in that article. Did I miss something?

Apparently you didn't scroll up a few inches:

"Between May 2007 and Mar. 24, 2010, at least nine law enforcement officers and 142 private citizens were killed nationally by concealed handgun permit holders (approximately 0.003% of all murders in that time period). [14] [15]"

14. "Concealed Carry Killers," Violence Policy Center website, Mar. 24, 2010

15. "Crime in the United States, 2007," FBI website, Sep. 2008

OK, 0.003% but that's still more than 'not one'.

Gleeman: ronaprhys: Gleeman: AngryDragon: There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.

It's not all sunshine and flowers. There have been some cases of licensed carriers shooting in cold blood, even shooting police, but yes it's a lower percentage than the general population.

Not arguing that concealed carry does prevent some crimes though.

Didn't see any of the cold blood proof listed in that article. Did I miss something?

Apparently you didn't scroll up a few inches:

"Between May 2007 and Mar. 24, 2010, at least nine law enforcement officers and 142 private citizens were killed nationally by concealed handgun permit holders (approximately 0.003% of all murders in that time period). [14] [15]"

14. "Concealed Carry Killers," Violence Policy Center website, Mar. 24, 2010

15. "Crime in the United States, 2007," FBI website, Sep. 2008

OK, 0.003% but that's still more than 'not one'.

151. In three years. Tragic, but statistically insignificant.

There are probably 20-40 Million Concealed Weapons permits issued in the United States. That means that somewhere between .0004% and .0008%, ~ one in every 132500 licensees (an order of magnitude less), has committed a murder with their weapon.

By comparison, the city of Detroit alone had 308 murders in 2011. I think the risk is worth it.

AngryDragon: I think the risk is worth it.

Never said it wasn't, just that it isn't zero.

Gleeman: ronaprhys: Gleeman: AngryDragon: There has not been one instance of a licensed carrier going on a rampage.

It's not all sunshine and flowers. There have been some cases of licensed carriers shooting in cold blood, even shooting police, but yes it's a lower percentage than the general population.

Not arguing that concealed carry does prevent some crimes though.

Didn't see any of the cold blood proof listed in that article. Did I miss something?

Apparently you didn't scroll up a few inches:

"Between May 2007 and Mar. 24, 2010, at least nine law enforcement officers and 142 private citizens were killed nationally by concealed handgun permit holders (approximately 0.003% of all murders in that time period). [14] [15]"

14. "Concealed Carry Killers," Violence Policy Center website, Mar. 24, 2010

15. "Crime in the United States, 2007," FBI website, Sep. 2008

OK, 0.003% but that's still more than 'not one'.

Now how many of those private citizens were killed in self defense? Get the answer to that and watch that 0.003% drop to almost 0.0001%.

redhook: Now how many of those private citizens were killed in self defense? Get the answer to that and watch that 0.003% drop to almost 0.0001%.

Well since the statistic is for crimes where the CC was the perp, probably zero.

Let me do your research for you. (note - these statistics are only from 2007 to the present)