The RCMP up here do the same thing. They turn into a game from what I've been told.

Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

The "study" was $8,000. The "bar tab" was $330. I guess the lab fees and the employees' salary made up the bulk of the cost of the experiment.

redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.



I'm not a fan of breathalyzers, but are you suggesting that we find a way to test them on people that doesn't involve letting those people enjoy the alcohol? Or we could punish the cops by hiring someone else and thus spend more money?

Nice use of tax money.

Did they try testing for BREAD?? (new window)

(laconic: any type of bread can add 0.03%-0.05% to a BAC, and won't be rejected as "mouth alcohol")

Smackledorfer: redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.



I'm not a fan of breathalyzers, but are you suggesting that we find a way to test them on people that doesn't involve letting those people enjoy the alcohol? Or we could punish the cops by hiring someone else and thus spend more money?

I'm betting there is a more scientific way to test the machines. Something along the lines of atomizing the alcohol, mixing it with air and pumping it through the machines. My guess is that the companies who make these machines don't have a bunch of drunks for their QA department. If they do, I'm sure they are FARKers and will testify shortly.

"What does any good cop do with their equipment?"

"Um. They test it?"

"They test it."

redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

How do you think they train officers to identify and interact with DUI suspects?

Some of the most fun I've had is working medical monitoring for the DUI classes the TBI/SCSO hold in Memphis for their officers. (Shelby County/MPD use specially trained and certified officers to perform DUI tests and make DUI arrests. They're called "Whiskey" cars on the radio.) They will use Criminal Justice students, who volunteer and are of age, from the local community college. The TBI provides specific types of alcohol, all 80 proof, and - for lack of better words - gets them drunk to various BACs. They will then use them to train the officers on recognition and testing.

I get kinda jealous, at times. From what I've told, the instructors are quite wicked-awesome at Bartending and mixing drinks.

imprimere: I'm betting there is a more scientific way to test the machines. Something along the lines of atomizing the alcohol, mixing it with air and pumping it through the machines. My guess is that the companies who make these machines don't have a bunch of drunks for their QA department. If they do, I'm sure they are FARKers and will testify shortly.

The Machines that are used by the police departments in Tennessee have to be vetted and certified for use by the departments by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, I've been told. That's why you see joe-blow at the bar who can carry one the size of an old pager, but the cops are driving around with gigantic pelican cases the size of your luggage with machines.

Are we a little too uptight?

I worked for a Federal Agency. We had to cancel our coffee service because it gave the appearance we are coddling federal employees. The coffee service was such a tiny fraction of our budget, improves employee morale, and productivity.

working in a hospital and seeing alot of these guys come in demanding their own blood test I can say from what I have seen the breathalyzers are pretty accurate ive not have one person that has passed a blood drawn BAC here in 2 years. Besides that we raised the up front charge to nearly the full price of the test as people werent paying the half that was left over.

When do they test bullets on each other?

/sounds like a very scientific experiment

sparky191: working in a hospital and seeing alot of these guys come in demanding their own blood test I can say from what I have seen the breathalyzers are pretty accurate ive not have one person that has passed a blood drawn BAC here in 2 years. Besides that we raised the up front charge to nearly the full price of the test as people werent paying the half that was left over.

There used to be an advantage to getting a BAC test versus a brethalyzer - namely time. There would often be several hours between the time the person was processed, and the blood drawn, and they could sober up in that time.

The State wised up. Now, some of the troopers carry the kits with them in the cars, and Tennessee passed a law saying they could ask an EMT or Paramedic on scene to do the blood draw immediately if it was requested, without obtaining a doctor's order.

I haven't done a field BAC draw in 3 years, coincidentally.

Verfall: The RCMP up here do the same thing. They turn into a game from what I've been told.

nope

BronyMedic: imprimere: I'm betting there is a more scientific way to test the machines. Something along the lines of atomizing the alcohol, mixing it with air and pumping it through the machines. My guess is that the companies who make these machines don't have a bunch of drunks for their QA department. If they do, I'm sure they are FARKers and will testify shortly.

The Machines that are used by the police departments in Tennessee have to be vetted and certified for use by the departments by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, I've been told. That's why you see joe-blow at the bar who can carry one the size of an old pager, but the cops are driving around with gigantic pelican cases the size of your luggage with machines.

Thanks for the info. You don't speak to how the machines are tested though.

Verfall: The RCMP up here do the same thing. They turn into a game from what I've been told.

And the really lucky ones (ie those who are getting certified in impairment recognition) get to go down to Arizona to get drunk. And then they get field certified by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. *shudder*

Just call Drew in. His body maintains equilibrium at 0.32.

apoptotic: Verfall: The RCMP up here do the same thing. They turn into a game from what I've been told.

And the really lucky ones (ie those who are getting certified in impairment recognition) get to go down to Arizona to get drunk. And then they get field certified by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. *shudder*

Friend of mine works in the forensics area up here, also worked in recruiting for a few months as well, some of the stories he's told me about the stuff these guys get away with makes our "National Police Force" sound more like Animal House.

Plus he tells me all about the weird shiat he gets to catalog, like all those feet from the BC coast, and all the guns from when they do raids. The stuff that comes out of some of those drug houses in Calgary suburbs would make Mexican warlords envious. Norinco sure thrives in the black market out here apparently.

imprimere: Thanks for the info. You don't speak to how the machines are tested though.

In GA, the GBI got caught a few years back rigging the machines in favor of revenue, crickets.

BronyMedic: redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

How do you think they train officers to identify and interact with DUI suspects?

Not by getting officers drunk. You yourself provided an example of how officers can be trained to recognize drunks without actually getting drunk themselves.

Besides, the purpose of this study was to determine whether or not the breathalyzer was accurate, not to increase officer awareness of if/when a suspect is drunk.

@Smackledorfer, yes I am suggesting we do so. Something akin to imprimere's method, whereby the ethanol is atomized and dispersed into a bladder that "breathes" into the machine. Doubtless, imprimere is correct in saying that the manufacturers of these machines don't get employees drunk to test them.

Here's my FDLE CSB. The former county tax collector here in Okaloosa County (Chris Hughes) was caught giving secret 'bonuses' to his his highest paid county employees. (About $750,000 over 3 years). When questioned by county commissioners, he claimed his office was in fact an 'independent state office' not subject to any county oversight. The highest paid employees were all members of Hughes private Christian mission group and helped him during regular business hours with 'mission work', recipes for his local newspaper column, and his Christian cookbooks. When another county tax employee/whistleblower came forth accusing Hughes of using county funds and county-issued credit cards for private trips and personal non-tax related duties; the FDLE was called in to investigate. Hughes destroyed the hard drives of his county-owned and county-paid-for computer system during the 'investigation'. He apologized for his actions and vowed he would not withhold county taxes for anymore sekrit 'bonus funds'! FDLE findings, Well, he may have been guilty of ethics violations and destroying evidence, but he probably did not do anything wrong. Less than a year later he 'voluntarily' walks-off his job to devote full-time to his Christian mission work. He also walks away from a $650K McMansion he was upside-down on and Florida Govenor Voldermort appoints Ben Anderson acting county tax collector.

Tune in next time kiddies and I'll tell you the stories of Jay Odom and the county tax office lease, Charlie Morris Okaloosa Sheriff and his federal kick-back scheme, and Waste Management's role in plan to change Destin, FL city charter to put mega-billion private corporation on non-advalorem tax rolls.

The GOP controlled FDLE is a piss poor barometer of either 'Law' or 'Enforcement' here in the state of Florida.

So I'm not gonna get too farkin' worked up that somebody got drunk on Jim Beam and blew into some breathalysers.



This town still voted 88% GOP and re-elected the same remaining politicians (besides the 3 or 4 that ended up in Federal jail for 3 or 4 years). There is a confederate flag across the street from the Wal-Mart with two huge racist Obama signs. Remember that the next time you decide to visit the sunny beaches of Destin/Fort Walton Beach/Pesacola in Florida.

redlion145: BronyMedic: redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

How do you think they train officers to identify and interact with DUI suspects?

Not by getting officers drunk. You yourself provided an example of how officers can be trained to recognize drunks without actually getting drunk themselves.

Besides, the purpose of this study was to determine whether or not the breathalyzer was accurate, not to increase officer awareness of if/when a suspect is drunk.

@Smackledorfer, yes I am suggesting we do so. Something akin to imprimere's method, whereby the ethanol is atomized and dispersed into a bladder that "breathes" into the machine. Doubtless, imprimere is correct in saying that the manufacturers of these machines don't get employees drunk to test them.

The problem I see is that a machine that precisely creates the correct vapor pressure of alcohol would be extremely expensive, and require technical expertise to calibrate. Why go to the trouble and expense, when you can do some drinks at the bar, and be good to go?

So did they drive home after this?

What's wrong with people in authority doing their jobs? Without police officers, army, and other governmental workers protecting the people, we have no protections from persons who would do us harm. Statelessness equals rightlessness. Self-defense only goes so far. The concept of individual rights is nothing without the government or some authority enforcing it and would develop into anarchy. Individual thought should never get in the way of true justice for humanity.

itwasabright: What's wrong with people in authority doing their jobs? Without police officers, army, and other governmental workers protecting the people, we have no protections from persons who would do us harm. Statelessness equals rightlessness. Self-defense only goes so far. The concept of individual rights is nothing without the government or some authority enforcing it and would develop into anarchy. Individual thought should never get in the way of true justice for humanity.

Nice.

redlion145: BronyMedic: redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

How do you think they train officers to identify and interact with DUI suspects?

Not by getting officers drunk. You yourself provided an example of how officers can be trained to recognize drunks without actually getting drunk themselves.

Besides, the purpose of this study was to determine whether or not the breathalyzer was accurate, not to increase officer awareness of if/when a suspect is drunk.

@Smackledorfer, yes I am suggesting we do so. Something akin to imprimere's method, whereby the ethanol is atomized and dispersed into a bladder that "breathes" into the machine. Doubtless, imprimere is correct in saying that the manufacturers of these machines don't get employees drunk to test them.

Ah the old "stop them they are having fun at work" argument.

You liked the fancy space pen didn't you? Know what the Soviets did? They got a pencil!

Harry_Seldon: Are we a little too uptight?

I worked for a Federal Agency. We had to cancel our coffee service because it gave the appearance we are coddling federal employees. The coffee service was such a tiny fraction of our budget, improves employee morale, and productivity.

Right, next you'll be asking for chairs!

redlion145: BronyMedic: redlion145: Your taxpayer dollars, hard at work.

Article contradicts itself though. On the first page, it says they shelled out $330, then a paragraph or two later, says it was $8000.

How do you think they train officers to identify and interact with DUI suspects?

Not by getting officers drunk. You yourself provided an example of how officers can be trained to recognize drunks without actually getting drunk themselves.

Besides, the purpose of this study was to determine whether or not the breathalyzer was accurate, not to increase officer awareness of if/when a suspect is drunk.

@Smackledorfer, yes I am suggesting we do so. Something akin to imprimere's method, whereby the ethanol is atomized and dispersed into a bladder that "breathes" into the machine. Doubtless, imprimere is correct in saying that the manufacturers of these machines don't get employees drunk to test them.

imo, if you are buying equipment like this, wouldn't it make sense that the thing be tested by actual experts, with proper tools and expertise? Therefore I think the idea of testing the accuracy of the machine is much less important than the familiarity the officers might get with seeing the number result of their actual test, AND feeling the physical effects of that level, after 1 drink vs after 4 drinks! Good for recognizing it in others when doing their jobs, good for recognizing it in themselves. Even if officers NOT participating in the drinking were simply there to watch what happened to their peers, whose normal behavior they are familiar with, then, there is good learning to be had.

As OPFOR in military exercises I was often sent to approach a soldier and take his weapon. This was actually quite easy with the young/new guys simply because I'm female... they KNEW they were supposed to react a certain way, but unless they had some previous experience, they usually didn't do it... they didn't expect me to attack, or to scream as if in pain... I managed to get many rifles away from many startled troops. But(!) I didn't get away with it too far into any single exercise... they learned... they got teased... others learned...then, and only then, would i get taken out as fast as my male teammates did. There are some lessons that real life teaches better than any book or any school.

BronyMedic: imprimere: I'm betting there is a more scientific way to test the machines. Something along the lines of atomizing the alcohol, mixing it with air and pumping it through the machines. My guess is that the companies who make these machines don't have a bunch of drunks for their QA department. If they do, I'm sure they are FARKers and will testify shortly.

The Machines that are used by the police departments in Tennessee have to be vetted and certified for use by the departments by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, I've been told. That's why you see joe-blow at the bar who can carry one the size of an old pager, but the cops are driving around with gigantic pelican cases the size of your luggage with machines.

I'm thinking that another possible way could be comparing blood test results with breathalyzer results

Harry_Seldon: I worked for a Federal Agency. We had to cancel our coffee service because it gave the appearance we are coddling federal employees. The coffee service was such a tiny fraction of our budget, improves employee morale, and productivity.

Yeah, why should you have to pay for your own coffee? Just go punch your neighbor in the face every morning and take his.

FBI shelled out $330 on Jim Beam whiskey and other booze, along with mixers and some Doritos, and invited 15 employees Rank Amateurs

The $8,000 study, put together in three days, was. . .

now THAT'S more like it . . .

Those poor public servants had to drink Jim Beam? What did they do to deserve that kind of punishment?

Verfall: The RCMP up here do the same thing. They turn into a game from what I've been told.

yeah, thats where my family member found he could drink 6 beer and still pass a breathalyzer. Not sure the time frame though.

/jealous

Representative of the unwashed masses: You liked the fancy space pen didn't you? Know what the Soviets did? They got a pencil!

Nope. (new window)

Egoy3k: Representative of the unwashed masses: You liked the fancy space pen didn't you? Know what the Soviets did? They got a pencil!

Nope. (new window)

You take your facts... you take your facts and GO TO HECK!

When I was a cop in Louisiana I was hired on a few weeks before the academy started, doing paperwork and crap around the office. When there was an opportunity to take the breathalyzer course, I was sent to it. Then during the academy they asked who was already certified in the breathalyzer. I raised my hand and was asked if I was a drinker. I told them I was and was told to have someone else drive me and about four other guys to class the next morning. They sent us upstairs during the class and we began drinking for about a good hour and a half. Finally we went downstairs and were given field sobriety tests and breath tests by the students. I managed to pass all the tests except for nystagmus (follow the pen) and blew a .13. Greatest day of class ever.

I used to work in the basement of Morris Library on the Campus of Southern Illinois University. I was an undergraduate student worker doing work shooting and editing educational videos for the state. One of our clients was the Department of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse. One the videos was about marijuana use. At this point in my life I had hair down to my ass, went to Alpine every year to see Jerry and the boys, and was president of SIN (southern illinois norml). Many of the scenes required for the production were shots of various partying activity. I was basically paid by the state to have a dope smoking party and video tape the whole thing in order to produce a video against dope smoking.

There was also a video about drinking and prescription pills. good times good times.

Harry_Seldon: Are we a little too uptight?

I worked for a Federal Agency. We had to cancel our coffee service because it gave the appearance we are coddling federal employees. The coffee service was such a tiny fraction of our budget, improves employee morale, and productivity.

Well things must really suck for employees at federal agencies. Where I used to work they got a coffee service (I forget which one). We all thought it sucked and people started bringing their own French presses to work which ended up costing them thousands in plumbing bills because people just poured out the grounds into the sink.

They finally switched back to just plain old coffee and we all still hated them because they were bastards.