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(Washington Post) NewsFlash White House announces it will reject Keystone Pipeline. John Boehner really wishes he had control over his investment portfolio right about now   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 357
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6505 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2012 at 2:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-01-18 02:17:13 PM

simplicimus: Anybody know if there's a refinery in Port Arthur that can refine this sludge?


No, there is not. The only refineries in the US that can handle this stuff are in the Northern states and Midwest. Additionally, Gulf region facilities don't even want to think about taking on a tar sands project. They would have to build a completely separate refinery to handle it, as introducing tar sands into the existing facilities would destroy there ability to cleanly refine sweet crude.
 
2012-01-18 02:18:31 PM
But what abou tthe 2 trillion jobs this pipeline would create Fartaxbongo?
 
2012-01-18 02:19:47 PM
Fine by me.
 
2012-01-18 02:20:36 PM

Pocket Ninja: However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners.


They're called "job creators," dimwit.
 
2012-01-18 02:21:09 PM
Try to push this shiat on us like your crappy beer, eh Canada? Hoseheads.
 
2012-01-18 02:21:34 PM
Now retroactively veto the indefinite detention clause of NDAA2012 and veto any SOPA or PIPA tripe that passes and you just might get my vote again this time around.

/I'll be voting for someone better if he doesn't
//I'll pencil in Dr. Thomas Light or some such nonsense
 
2012-01-18 02:22:31 PM
Pocket Ninja: "Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners."

Yeah. Let's put the aquifer that waters America's breadbasket at risk for the sake of a nice straight line that minimizes bureaucratic hassle for the company standing to profit from said pipeline. It's not like we can't trust them to keep an accurate eye on possible damage and clean up responsibly. The lies and omissions in their environmental studies to date were just honest errors, I'm sure. They can fight off their perverse incentive to do it fast and cheap and just hope for the best.

/the commons, have you heard of them?
//it's a tragedy.
 
2012-01-18 02:22:34 PM
I just thought of something: With this pipeline being rejected, all the news focus will shift from the SOPA/PIPA protests to coverage of this.

The game is rigged.
 
2012-01-18 02:24:32 PM
Can someone explain to me what the possible benefit to America is?

I understand the benefit to Canada, China, a few investment firms, and some oil companies.

Now, where is the possible benefit to the United States?
 
2012-01-18 02:24:45 PM
I hope you lot enjoy your 5 dollar a gallon gasoline.
 
2012-01-18 02:25:04 PM

Pocket Ninja: However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners.


Will it impact more or fewer people overall on the new route?
 
2012-01-18 02:25:13 PM
So Obama waited for news of Boehner's investments to break before saying "Fix your plans".

The whole thing still reeks.
 
2012-01-18 02:25:55 PM
It's bad enough the US heavily subsidizes our insanely profitable domestic oil companies, there is absolutely no need for us to subsidize foreign oil companies.
 
2012-01-18 02:26:12 PM
there's lots of oil for the taking over there in Iran
 
2012-01-18 02:27:19 PM

Mart Laar's beard shaver: I hope you lot enjoy your 5 dollar a gallon gasoline.


I hope you enjoy googling the term "fungible".
 
2012-01-18 02:29:15 PM
Sure, save the wolverines and the farking caribou up in doughnut and toque land but fark the American landscape, right hosers?
 
2012-01-18 02:29:30 PM

ginandbacon: Score one for the good guys.


You mean Chinese refineries?

The oil will be extracted and sold - just that it won't be transported via a pipeline to the US and be refined in EPA monitored refineries. Instead it will be shipped (via tankers) to some other country (most likely China) and be refined there. Pollution there is fine, as long as you don't see it right away, correct?

So yeah, great job. Beers all around.
 
2012-01-18 02:29:31 PM
Wouldn't the footprint on this thing be about the same as a new interstate?
 
2012-01-18 02:29:46 PM

what_now: Can someone explain to me what the possible benefit to America is?

I understand the benefit to Canada, China, a few investment firms, and some oil companies.

Now, where is the possible benefit to the United States?


In the short term? A small boost in temp hiring to construct the pipeline and get it up and running.

Long term? None. The pipeline will divert nearly all tar sands sourced oil from the US to the Gulf outlets for export to South America and Europe. Meanwhile, the threat of a pipe rupture will likely be higher than people will admit to, since the steel companies that TransCanada has employed to produce the pipes has a history of shoddy work and burst pipes.
 
2012-01-18 02:29:55 PM
This oil was only going to be piped across America to be sold to other countries.

Stupid idea.
 
2012-01-18 02:30:16 PM

GaryPDX: No worries. Harper will have it all sold to China in a couple months. (new window). All Canada has to do is pipe the oil over to Prince Rupert port to the waiting Chinese tankers.

Brilliant move, Obama.


That is a lot of stupid crammed into very few words.
 
2012-01-18 02:30:39 PM

Jake Havechek: Try to push this shiat on us like your crappy beer, eh Canada? Hoseheads.


Point of order:


A 'Hosehead' is a fan of sprint car racing, first popularized by Allen Holland way back in the early, early days of TeH InNeRgoogles (1999 or so) when he founded this website:

Link (new window)

The word you're looking for is 'Hoser'.
 
2012-01-18 02:31:05 PM
With all the green jobs and alternative energy sources that have been created under Obama's leadership the pipeline was unnecessary.
 
2012-01-18 02:31:07 PM
ArtosRC: "I just thought of something: With this pipeline being rejected, all the news focus will shift from the SOPA/PIPA protests to coverage of this."

riiiight. what coverage?
The token articles that misrepresent the arguments against?

The game *is* rigged... in favor of salacious gossip. Even this bit will get less coverage than whatever celebrity took their top off most recently.
Hell, i heard news segments from three different radio stations in my car this morning. They all mentioned "the wikipedia blackout to protest a new anti-piracy bill". None of them went into *any* more depth and they all spent far more time on Lindsey Lohan showing up in court. Something that happens, what? Every other week?
 
2012-01-18 02:31:10 PM

what_now: Mart Laar's beard shaver: I hope you lot enjoy your 5 dollar a gallon gasoline.

I hope you enjoy googling the term "fungible".


I, having an education, are very much aware of what fungible means. And any good is only fungible to a point. The fact is that Canada's oil is going to be directed to China.

You know how many pipeline ALREADY criss-cross the United States?

I swear, America has reached the point where it's too stupid to be a superpower.
 
2012-01-18 02:31:38 PM
When they say 20K jobs, they mean (10K jobs for 2 years). The "jobs" are actually "job-years". Studies have shown that only a handful (
And of those short-term jobs (1-2 years in length), 30% of those will be in Canada, not the US.

Now, that still means 7K people in the US can get a job for 1 to 2 years. I think that is a good thing.

As far as keeping oil prices lower ... whether the pipeline goes south or west, to a Chinese tanker, it doesn't matter. Global demand sets the price of oil.
 
2012-01-18 02:31:41 PM
This is a News Flash?
 
2012-01-18 02:31:50 PM
Just like he closed Guantanamo?

Just like the justice dept was going to leave medical marijuana alone?

Just like he rejected indefinite military detention of citizens?

I expect the oil will be flowing quite soon.

/Obama dissed my gruntle
 
2012-01-18 02:31:57 PM

what_now: Can someone explain to me what the possible benefit to America is?

I understand the benefit to Canada, China, a few investment firms, and some oil companies.

Now, where is the possible benefit to the United States?


A good number of temporary jobs in the interior states? This really seems like a way to get some quick cash. The Hell with the future impact.

/Funny how it is vital to pipe the oil all the way to the coast just so it can be used domestically.
 
2012-01-18 02:32:17 PM

unyon: GaryPDX: No worries. Harper will have it all sold to China in a couple months. (new window). All Canada has to do is pipe the oil over to Prince Rupert port to the waiting Chinese tankers.

Brilliant move, Obama.

By the way: If I were in charge, you motherfarkers wouldn't get one goddamned drop until you recognized our legitimate arctic sovereignty claims. If you can't be a supportive neighbour, then fark you. Maybe the Chinese would appreciate a new friend.

You wanna make nice with Canada and have access to our resources? Be a better friend.


Nooooo
They be cuttin off our poutine!
 
2012-01-18 02:32:36 PM

syberpud: The oil will be extracted and sold - just that it won't be transported via a pipeline to the US and be refined in EPA monitored refineries.


The GOP want to get rid of the EPA and roll back regulation.
 
2012-01-18 02:32:36 PM

Codenamechaz: Pocket Ninja: However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners.

The problem with it wasn't that it affected land owners, but that it destroyed vast acres of environmentally sensitive areas across two countries.


If a pipeline comes through your land, you will have a swath at least 60-100' wide that will be worthless for growing anything for close to 10 years even if you spend a fortune on fertilizer. They don't bother to segregate the topsoil and put it back on top.
 
2012-01-18 02:33:16 PM

Pocket Ninja: However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners.


A less direct route would mean a longer pipeline...which would mean more jobs. WHY ARE YOU AGAINST AMERICAN JOBS!?
 
2012-01-18 02:33:33 PM

FloydA: eurotrader:

You know that this isn't the telegraph, so you don't have to pay extra for punctuation marks, right? .


STOP
 
2012-01-18 02:33:36 PM
It's a stunt. The Administration is rejecting it now to throw a sop to one of its constituencies while knowing full well that the Canadians can challenge the decision under NAFTA. This is a transparent stunt coming from the Administration that had to back down on Mexican trucks just a couple of months ago.

Amusingly, some Farkers are laboring under the impression that the United States can exercise sovereignty in these matters.

"I believe we have made a decision now that will permit us to create an economic order in the world that will promote more growth, more equality, better preservation of the environment, and a greater possibility of world peace. We are on the verge of a global economic expansion that is sparked by the fact that the United States in this critical moment decided that we would compete, not retreat.

In a few moments, I will sign the North American free trade act into law. NAFTA will tear clown trade barriers between our three nations. It will create the world's largest trade zone and create 200,000 jobs in this country by 1995 alone. The environmental and labor side agreements negotiated by our administration will make this agreement a force for social progress as well as economic growth."


www.pbs.org
 
2012-01-18 02:34:24 PM
OMG, STOP THE PIPELINE BEFORE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS ...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-01-18 02:34:55 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: In the short term? A small boost in temp hiring to construct the pipeline and get it up and running.


Couldn't we just hire those people to build new roads and bridges? Ours are in bad shape.
 
2012-01-18 02:35:08 PM

unyon: A pipeline makes all the sense in the world. Transporting it any other way is crazy talk. Risk assessment and pipeline analysis and maintenance schedules have made light year leaps over the last decade. Companies now know what they have, how to monitor, and what's at risk. I know, I support all the backline systems for a company that exclusively does pipeline risk assessment modelling for guys like BP, Transcanada, and Cenovus.

The regulatory and compliance framework has been beefed up in recent years, which has forced the industry to have to pay attention to aging pipelines in a way that they never had before. Provided that the route is a sound one, this is something worth supporting. And I say that even as a filthy hippie.


I might be a bit warmer to this idea, except TransCanada ordered a significant amount of the piping before the adjusted regulations were provided to them. On top of that, they're order a huge amount of steel from Welspun, who is currently under investigation by the PHMSA for selling substandard steel that's failing within 2-3 years rather than the 50 years as expected (and being sued by two companies who experienced those failures). It doesn't help at all that they're claiming a failure rate at somewhere around 10% the statistical average.
 
2012-01-18 02:35:12 PM

FloydA: eurotrader:

You know that this isn't the telegraph, so you don't have to pay extra for punctuation marks, right? .


Ah hee hee hee!!!!
 
2012-01-18 02:35:30 PM
[joke about boners and laying some pipe]
 
2012-01-18 02:36:02 PM
Obama doesn't have to provide crap to Congress regardless of the HR 3630 language, because, this isn't something Congress ever had a say over. This is solely the business of the State Department. The Orange Man only got involved and added this to the payroll tax cut extension because his masters told him to.
 
2012-01-18 02:36:11 PM

trappedspirit: Wouldn't the footprint on this thing be about the same as a new interstate?


Nope, as it is buried for the most part. In most places, you would not even know it was there, except for the markers planted every couple of hundred feet.

It would have a temporary footprint while the pipeline was installed, but once construction was done, you could pretty much continue usig the land as it currently is.
 
2012-01-18 02:36:13 PM
The republicans are way too excited about this pipeline being built. That alone tells me I should worry about it.
 
2012-01-18 02:36:37 PM
Aliens want all our Maple Syrup.
 
2012-01-18 02:36:43 PM

GaryPDX: No worries. Harper will have it all sold to China in a couple months. (new window). All Canada has to do is pipe the oil over to Prince Rupert port to the waiting Chinese tankers.

Brilliant move, Obama.


Which is where the oil was going to go if the XL was built: right to the southern seaports and on to Chinese tankers causing midwesterns to pay about 20% more in Gas prices costing tens of thousands of PERMANENT Jobs (unlike the temp pipe-fitting jobs that were likely to be filled with foreign labor that building the pipeline would create)

The current seaports are much more inconvenient/expensive for the Chinese so a lot of the oil gets sold in the Upper US midwest instread
 
2012-01-18 02:37:10 PM
Who really benefits from this pipeline?

Kochs win big if Keystone XL pipeline is approved (new window)
 
2012-01-18 02:37:18 PM

canyoneer: the Canadians can challenge the decision under NAFTA


I'm sorry...what??
 
2012-01-18 02:37:31 PM

spiderpaz: When they say 20K jobs, they mean (10K jobs for 2 years). The "jobs" are actually "job-years". Studies have shown that only a handful (
And of those short-term jobs (1-2 years in length), 30% of those will be in Canada, not the US.

Now, that still means 7K people in the US can get a job for 1 to 2 years. I think that is a good thing.


Most of the jobs created in the US will be done by import/national labor, not locally sourced labor. I mean, they'll hire local ditch diggers, but in terms of technical work? That's coming from corporate.
 
2012-01-18 02:37:39 PM

Mr. Titanium: Codenamechaz: Pocket Ninja: However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

Oh, good. So now it'll take a far less direct route and impact countless more landowners.

The problem with it wasn't that it affected land owners, but that it destroyed vast acres of environmentally sensitive areas across two countries.

If a pipeline comes through your land, you will have a swath at least 60-100' wide that will be worthless for growing anything for close to 10 years even if you spend a fortune on fertilizer. They don't bother to segregate the topsoil and put it back on top.


That seems a very wide right of way for a pipeline, but I don't have any pipeline experience. I really don't care that much, one way or another whether the pipeline gets built or not, it isn't the big job creation project that the GOP thinks it is, nor is it the environmental disaster that some Democrats think it is.

So meh.
 
2012-01-18 02:38:00 PM
However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska's Sandhills.

... which TransCanada was already working on because of Nebraska ranchers' and environmentalists' objections to the original route.

TransCanada did not ask for and did not want this deadline, which was nothing but yet another useless histrionic GOP political stunt.
 
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