Adolf Oliver Nipples: It passed, then the Check Engine light came back on while I was driving it home from the garage.

This is exactly what happened to me. Thing is this could be mechanical or just a sensor/software malfunction. In VA we've done away with the "sniffer" and now just hook the car's computer up to the reader; I'd rather they physically measure what's coming out of the tailpipe instead of relying on the electronic readout.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: ZAZ: The rant misunderstands the purpose of the check engine light. The check engine light exists so that people will have emissions problems fixed. The light usually means "there is a problem with your car that may cause emissions to exceed federal targets." The check engine light does not offer extra data so that people will not be tempted to make a value judgment about whether a problem is worth a visit to the dealer (in warranty) or mechanic (old cars). Any benefit to the consumer is secondary.

For a lot of us, such as those of us in Pennsylvania, knowing what the Check Engine light is indicating is priceless. You cannot pass inspection with a Check Engine light illuminated. Since neither the car nor the code reader at Advance would tell me what the problem was and I was not made of money such that I could pay $150 to have the mechanic run the code (seriously, $150 before any work is even considered), I passed my inspection the old-fashioned way: I pulled the battery lead and drove it 60 miles. It passed, then the Check Engine light came back on while I was driving it home from the garage.

That $150 is called "diagnostics" and it's no different than a doctor who sees you for a disease but hasn't yet sent you for testing or treatment. You still pay him right? You're paying for the education and the knowledge that he has and you don't, the equipment he has and you don't, and the licensing from other people that says he does and you don't.

Sorry, but this one really irks me. It can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours to diagnose a car, and you want me to do that for free? Nope. You can go find a monkey for what you're willing to pay for diagnostics - just understand that you get what you pay for, so don't be surprised when the monkey doesn't fix it.

damageddude: Adolf Oliver Nipples: You cannot pass inspection with a Check Engine light illuminated.

NJ is the same and one of the reasons I got rid of my last car. It was older, but, at the time, I took NJ Transit to work and it was just a weekend car for me. Car had fairly low mileage and still ran great.

See, here's an issue though. Most people do just what you did: Compare the cost of repair to the cost of the car "as is." What you should have compared it to was the cost of a replacement car. Would it have still come out the same?

Also, the battery trick doesn't work in California. You'll clear your monitors, and as of the 2011 update you can only have one incomplete monitor to pass smog for new cars (this is mostly a response to how difficult it is to get all the monitors to run on some cars - they require things like "engine must be running +5 minutes, temp at 280, EGR off").

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Peki: Sorry, but this one really irks me. It can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours to diagnose a car, and you want me to do that for free? Nope. You can go find a monkey for what you're willing to pay for diagnostics - just understand that you get what you pay for, so don't be surprised when the monkey doesn't fix it.

30 minutes to plug a machine into an OBDII port? Try 30 seconds, and another 30 seconds to get the answer. You want $5 for a minute of your time? Here you go. $150? Chuff my wang.

Ha! If only. 30 seconds gets you a code. If you're LUCKY, the code is something like P0455 (most likely a loose gas cap). How about P100? Random misfire. You can't tell which cylinder is misfiring, you can't determine why, and you have no idea if the ignition, fuel, compression, and air systems are all working correctly. "Scanning" is the start to the diagnosis, not the end.

Earpj: I have an 05 Odyssey. Bought it new. In 5 years I never saw the check engine light. Now it comes on frequently. When I get gas, if I don't turn the cap enough times (should be 3 clicks, now it's many more than that) the light comes on for 3 days.

I admit. I'm becoming complacent.

I'm getting the timing belt changed next month and I'll have them look at that, too, while they're in there.

What I tell people is that after they pay off their car they need to stash about 1K per year to maintain it, if they're looking for any kind of longevity (and I think it's really stupid if they aren't). This includes oil changes, brakes, head gaskets, etc. Usually you can easily cover this once you aren't making monthly payments.

The best thing you can do is treat your car like you would a girlfriend you're interested in keeping around: pay attention, listen when she complains, fix what's wrong when you can, and keep good friends around for second opinions. :)

ricewater_stool: This is true, but it's ridiculous to charge for the 30 seconds you spent to find out whether they have a completely innocuous issue or something potentially serious.

And when my wife's car did have the random misfire code and she took it to the dealer, they wanted over $1000 to replace 5 different things. I told them to fark off and figured it out myself. Turned out to be a bad ignition coil, which I fixed in about 30 minutes for under $100.

If you have the knowledge to fix the car yourself, you'll always do better than what you can get at a shop. Also, your wife took it to the dealer. While there are advantages (especially if warranty applies), for the most part you'll just get screwed. I got to re-work a Jeep from a dealer that had a slipped intake valve insert that was jamming the valve open. We ended up having to replace the fricking fuel rail because the dealer guys had slammed the thing on, busting the garter spring, a repair completely unnecessary for what was actually wrong with the car. *sigh*

Mechanic's secret: That initial charge is also a way of screening customers. The annoying customers that never make you money are the ones who argue with you over 30 bucks to scan. You don't make a profit on those, and mechanics run a business, not a charity. It also encourages bad will; the mechanic won't take your problem seriously, won't put his best effort into fixing it, because he knows he's not getting paid what he's worth (would you expect a doc to be good if you paid him $10/hr?). If you're serious, pay the money. You'll get much better work out of the mechanic as a result, even if it's a pain in the ass job.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Peki: If you're serious, pay the money. You'll get much better work out of the mechanic as a result, even if it's a pain in the ass job.

And here's the best part. You pay a fortune to get the car fixed, and the quality of the work depend entirely upon whether or not you've pissed the mechanic off, not professionalism or anything like that. Pay the man his exorbitant fee, sit down and shut up, and you'll get good service. Otherwise, sorry about your luck.

Isn't that how every other business is run?

Oh not really, because most of the time you don't get to argue your price like that. The business sets the price and you get to shut the fark up and like it. $60/hr labor is 60/hr, not "60/hr but less when the customer doesn't feel like it's worth it".

I need to eat. You need your car fixed. Don't want to pay me? Fix it yourself. There's the door.

/just as angry with mechanics who let customers get away with this crap too

Earpj: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Peki: If you're serious, pay the money. You'll get much better work out of the mechanic as a result, even if it's a pain in the ass job.

And here's the best part. You pay a fortune to get the car fixed, and the quality of the work depend entirely upon whether or not you've pissed the mechanic off, not professionalism or anything like that. Pay the man his exorbitant fee, sit down and shut up, and you'll get good service. Otherwise, sorry about your luck.

My worry is, he changes something, I pay him and take it home, but that wasn't the actual problem.
Gotta fix something else. I don't want to piss him off. He's also changing out the suspension on my daughter's car.

/My son's car is at the mechanic right now. I think it's the starter, from what I've read. He's saying maybe the alternator.
//It's getting power, just not turning over.

A good mechanic, provided you pay him well, will want to know what else is wrong with the car, simply because now he knows he's done the best job he can and wants to know what he did wrong. Most good ones will also be able to tell you if there's likely to be other problems - for instance, you bring a car in to replace a head gasket, but once you fix that, you notice the throttle body is bad or something similar. Those happen (unfortunately), and not much any mechanic can do to guarantee you it won't. Best way not to piss him off is to listen to him, maintain the car properly, and pay decent money.

Voltage reading on a battery while the car is running should say 14.5. Lower than 13 or higher than 16 is bad. Battery should read 10.5 volts after running the starter for NO MORE than 10 seconds (longer and you'll melt your starter, obviously need to disable fuel/ignition - follow manufacturer spec). If the battery voltage drops below 10.5, the battery is bad. Other possibilities - vacuum leaks can cause a car to not want to start, old/broken wiring causing too little power to the starter.

Many people I know check the alternator by attempting to run the car with the battery disconnected. If you can, the alternator is operating at least minimally, but you have no way of knowing if it's producing too much voltage. But this is neither the safe, correct, nor recommended procedure. Always safer to use a DVOM.

Eh, forgot this part:

Voltage reading on a battery while the car is running should say 14.5. (This lets you know that the alternator is running correctly).

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Peki: Isn't that how every other business is run?

No. If I did garbage work because a customer was angry at me my boss would fire my ass on the spot. It's part of the job, grin and bare it. You have a job to do, and your feelings have no bearing on the matter.

Peki: I need to eat.

So do I. $150 just to get you to spend a minute to hook up one plastic interface to another and turn a key is patently absurd, and if extortion is how you feed your family you have no ethics. Imagine the money you could make if you guys could somehow earn a reputation for honesty. It's tough, I know, but try it. I think you'll find it's quite rewarding.

Really? $150 is too much to spend on a 30K car?? Really??? How much do you pay the repairman to come and take a look at your heater? Your A/C? Your house? Plumbing? Need I go on? Let's not forget also that mechanics are required to look at ALL the systems on a car, not just one. It would be like trying to get a guy who is an electrician, a plumber, HVAC, and carpentry work on your home. How much would you expect to pay him just to show up?

Go ahead and get your bargain basement mechanic. You're not the kind of customer I want at my shop.

/glad that works out so pleasantly

Adolf Oliver Nipples:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Peki: Really? $150 is too much to spend on a 30K car?? Really??? How much do you pay the repairman to come and take a look at your heater? Your A/C? Your house? Plumbing? Need I go on? Let's not forget also that mechanics are required to look at ALL the systems on a car, not just one. It would be like trying to get a guy who is an electrician, a plumber, HVAC, and carpentry work on your home. How much would you expect to pay him just to show up?

$30,000 car? That's a joke. And I don't pay repairmen to come and look at my heater, etc. I fix it myself, and if I can't I localize the problem and then have them come and fix it. I don't get a non-specific "exhaust system" code for my money, which you will be more than happy to generate for the princely sum of $150. I already know that, Advance already told me that.

And you wonder why people distrust mechanics almost universally. You are actually making an effort to defend what virtually everybody else sees as indefensible, and explicitly telling us that you will do shady work if any of us deign to question such idiocy in your presence. After all, you're the Pro from Dover, right? We have to take you at your word, even when you tell us about the myriad other problems that don't exist once you have the car already apart. We are at your mercy. You have given us no reason to trust you yet demand that trust or you'll give us even less reason to trust you.

What a shady racket you're into. I suppose it can't help but affect who you are, because what you're showing yourself to be is the stereotypical mechanic that everybody hates. More's the pity.

Personally? No, I wouldn't charge you 150 to scan your car (My price is more likely to be $30), and if I did, I'd spend about an hour afterwards actually diagnosing it, not just scanning it. But I defend the right of a business to charge that price, and if you don't like it, vote with your walletbook and go somewhere else. You want quality work for cheap? Go shove it. You're just as bad as every other human who wants something for nothing. You're paying for my knowledge, so either pay up, or go learn it yourself. And when the person you paid bottom dollar to "fix" your car doesn't, that's not a "lack of professionalism", it's called Karma.

My sensitive bike throws codes all the time, so I got a little handheld that tells you what the code is. The last time it was a need to reset the EFI computer due to a change in weather. The procedure? Without touching the throttle, let the bike idle until the cooling fan kicks in, and the turn off. the bike has now re-acclimated itself to the current climate. Perhaps some mechanics would be honest about this, but the potential for abuse is out there even when the owner knows a thing or two.

One time it threw a code telling me the flux capacitor was out, but I ignored that one.

The check engine light is a scam. It's just as easy to have a light now days, as it is to have a plain English scrolling message coupled with an error code anybody can look up.

Car dealerships, and car fixerships are all a bunch of slimy ass scammers. Every single fracking one of them.

ZAZ: The rant misunderstands the purpose of the check engine light. The check engine light exists so that people will have emissions problems fixed. The light usually means "there is a problem with your car that may cause emissions to exceed federal targets." The check engine light does not offer extra data so that people will not be tempted to make a value judgment about whether a problem is worth a visit to the dealer (in warranty) or mechanic (old cars). Any benefit to the consumer is secondary.

We have a "right to repair" bill pending in Massachusetts that would require car makers to publish codes and other data needed to allow independent shops to fix engine problems.

And what did the check engine light mean before there were federal emission standards?

My check engine light came on recently, the car had been acting sort of funny for a while- sputtering up a hill or when I was at 2000RPM in 2nd gear.

Then it got really crazy and scary and left me in horribly philly rush hour traffic. So I took it to Auto Zone or something like that and they pulled codes from it and it said "misfire on cylinder 2". He said I needed a tune up which sounded minor and I took it in. I spent $270 on a tune up and the car runs exactly the same.

But you're supposed to get it looked at when it comes on. It says, check. the. engine. Penny.

With my '01 Jeep Wrangler, I'm worried when my check engine light isn't illuminated.

Independent people can buy scanners as well, or cables to connect laptops, smart phones, etc., but people who will do that are not the ones who need to worry about the check engine lights.

Wait, so people who have scanners don't need to worry about the MIL because they have scanners but people who don't have a scanner don't need the MIL because it doesn't tell them enough about the problem but if you don't have a scanner you wouldn't be able to fix the problem anyway because if you were the type of person who could fix the problem you'd have a scanner and wouldn't have to worry about the MIL...

I'm dizzy.