I had a mostly benign impression of Romney up to that moment in the debate last night. He's been a little ass-y here and there, but came off as a complete political douche right then.

Romney is a complete dick. He's just as sleazy as the rest of the GOP field. The Republicans don't have a candidate.

DarnoKonrad: Not quite the same thing. I don't think anyone doubts Mr. Romney is at least, in theory, eligible to be taxed.

If he's not paying income taxes, then that means he's an illegal immigrant and therefore not eligible to run for president.

SEEKRIT POOR PERSON!

He just admitted that his taxes are closer to 15%

15%?!

I am not faulting the guy for taking advantage of the system. I think it is indicative of how farked up the tax system is that a person who makes ten times as much as I do only pays five times as much as I do in taxes. What I am going to fault him on his own tax plan that would cut his own taxes even more while raising mine.

cretinbob: Romney is a complete dick. He's just as sleazy as the rest of the GOP field. The Republicans don't have a candidate.

Oh yes they do, RON PAUL.

Mitt Romney has a lower tax rate than me.

As this progresses, I'm having a hard time seeing how this election ends up as anything but Obama wiping the floor with Romney.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Right now, Romney "guesses" (^) his rate is 15%.
I'm sure that will go over well.

From the link you provided there:

"I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.

My income is OK, but I sure wish I could be in the sort of income bracket were $374K in side income (paid at a rate of about, I dunno, $40,000 per hour of speaking time) would be considered "not very much" income. If I were in that income bracket, I'm sure I'd be much more in tune with the life and struggles of the common American, and Mittens Romney certainly must be.

Dusk-You-n-Me: @AnnieLowrey

When did Fark become Twitter?

SurfaceTension: When did Fark become Twitter?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Cyberluddite: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Right now, Romney "guesses" (^) his rate is 15%.
I'm sure that will go over well.

From the link you provided there:

"I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.

My income is OK, but I sure wish I could be in the sort of income bracket were $374K in side income (paid at a rate of about, I dunno, $40,000 per hour of speaking time) would be considered "not very much" income. If I were in that income bracket, I'm sure I'd be much more in tune with the life and struggles of the common American, and Mittens Romney certainly must be.

Yeah, I think the 'Oh, I didn't make much, only $375k or so' is going to look good. Or rather, it's going to look fantastic on a DNC ad.

Dusk-You-n-Me: SurfaceTension: When did Fark become Twitter?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

You re-tweeted on Fark, without adding anything salient of your own. The least you could do, like I do, is steal the damn comment and post it as if it's your own!

Cyberluddite: "I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.


Mitt Romney made more money in one speech than most Americans do all year.

And he said it wasn't very much.

Keep whining, Libs and RINOs.

While Romney creates jobs, 46% of Americans don't even pay income tax!

So whatever rate Romney pays, he contributes more than you.

SurfaceTension: You re-tweeted on Fark, without adding anything salient of your own. The least you could do, like I do, is steal the damn comment and post it as if it's your own!

I guess you can think of it as a retweet. I used the 'embed tweet' function that twitter provides. Because it's easy to do, and links back to the source.

vernonFL: While Romney creates jobs, 46% of Americans don't even pay income tax!

The GOP is responsible for a lot of gay male prostitute jobs, so I guess that's something.

I sure hope Gov. Romney doesn't pay any taxes. After all, he admitted openly that he was unemployed.

stpauler: I had a mostly benign impression of Romney up to that moment in the debate last night. He's been a little ass-y here and there, but came off as a complete political douche right then.

Really? I think he seemed terrified. He was stuttering and stammering and trying really hard to come up with something.

I get the sense we'll learn he pays very little taxes, or taxes, but at a lower rate than the average person and probably has some questionable write-offs.

Romney is of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.



Link (new window)

And most Americans feel the same way.

(new window)

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Right now, Romney "guesses" (^) his rate is 15%.

I'm sure that will go over well.

I think I just actually felt my blood pressure rise, since I think mine is somewhere around 30 and I am by no means rich, or even close to the supposed benchmark of $250,000/year. Or hell, even $100,00 a year would be nice, but nope.

serpent_sky: I get the sense we'll learn he pays very little taxes, or taxes, but at a lower rate than the average person and probably has some questionable write-offs.

It's the difference between wages vs capital gains. Simply normalize the tax rate to apply evenly to all income and the problem is solved.

This means that the rich will pay more taxes, since most of their money comes from investments and not wages. So obviously Jim Bob Obamahater in a trailer park in Bumfark, Oklahoma has problem with it and will vote republican.

GAT_00: Cyberluddite: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Right now, Romney "guesses" (^) his rate is 15%.
I'm sure that will go over well.

From the link you provided there:

"I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.

My income is OK, but I sure wish I could be in the sort of income bracket were $374K in side income (paid at a rate of about, I dunno, $40,000 per hour of speaking time) would be considered "not very much" income. If I were in that income bracket, I'm sure I'd be much more in tune with the life and struggles of the common American, and Mittens Romney certainly must be.

Yeah, I think the 'Oh, I didn't make much, only $375k or so' is going to look good. Or rather, it's going to look fantastic on a DNC ad.

Romney is supposed to be so slick and politically savvy. Why the fark is he embracing the fat cat persona? Is he so insulated that he thinks he only needs the wealthy vote? I have to admit though: Republicans are getting exactly the candidate they deserve.

Dusk-You-n-Me: And most Americans feel the same way.





What's really interesting would be to figure out where the people who answered that question place themselves. A *LOT* of people think their economic situation is very different than it really is.

CSB:

I recently spoke with a friend of mine who said she "was the 1%". I pointed out that she and her husband would need to make over $400,000 a year for several years to be in the 1%.

She and her husband make about $150-200k a year, which is certainly not middle class, but that's not Romney money either.

/CSB

GaryPDX: cretinbob: Romney is a complete dick. He's just as sleazy as the rest of the GOP field. The Republicans don't have a candidate.

Oh yes they do, RON PAUL.

Head over to the New Republic, check out their article on the latest trove of RP newsletters and then come back and say that again.

ignatius_crumbcake: It's the difference between wages vs capital gains. Simply normalize the tax rate to apply evenly to all income and the problem is solved.

The one caveat to that is that if an individual invests his money directly into a company (as opposed to buying an ownership stake from another share-holder), he should still pay at the current capital gains rate. Otherwise you'll stifle real investment.

what_now: What's really interesting would be to figure out where the people who answered that question place themselves. A *LOT* of people think their economic situation is very different than it really is.

Isn't there a saying that there are no poor people in the US, only temporarily struggling millionaires?

Dusk-You-n-Me: Romney is of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.

[saintpetersblog.com image 514x379]

Link (new window)

And most Americans feel the same way.

[themonkeycage.org image 640x465] (new window)

Holy shiat, 89% of Americans agreed on something. The problem is too many of those 89% think caring about the rich is why our economy works.

GAT_00: Holy shiat, 89% of Americans agreed on something. The problem is too many of those 89% think caring about the rich is why our economy works.

It's eventually going to trickle down.
Any day now. Any day.

what_now: She and her husband make about $150-200k a year, which is certainly not middle class . . . .

Unless, possibly, they're living in East Bugfart, Oklahoma or some other place where they can buy a mansion for $75,000, that kind of income sure seems "middle class" to me. Upper middle class perhaps, and probably fairly comfortable, but certainly not "upper class." Nobody I know making that kind of income (and honestly, the vast majority of my circle of friends is somewhere in or near that income range) really lives any kind of opulent "upper class" lifestyle.

SurfaceTension: Otherwise you'll stifle real investment.

I just don't think this is true. If I want to invest in Carrot Top's new line of male pubic hair care products (called Red&Curly), why would it dissuade me that I would pay 35% on a million dollar return as opposed to 15%? I'm still making an assload of money. If I get a small return on my investment, then the tax rate on it will be correspondingly smaller. I don't see investors ever saying "well, I was gonna invest, but I'd pay more taxes on my free money, so I'm just gonna hold off and not make anything." Income is income, and should be treated equally. People will still invest if they only get to pocket 65% of returns over $380k, cause 65% of that is still more than 0%.

Hell, if we started taxing all capital gains at the same rate as wages, we could probably afford to reduce the rates 5% or 10% across the board.

PPP first poll of 2012:

Obama up 49% to 44% on Romney overall.

Obama up 68% to 27% on Romney with moderates.

Romney 35% favorable, 53% unfavorable.

Link (new window)

Cyberluddite: Unless, possibly, they're living in East Bugfart, Oklahoma or some other place where they can buy a mansion for $75,000, that kind of income sure seems "middle class" to me. Upper middle class perhaps, and probably fairly comfortable, but certainly not "upper class." Nobody I know making that kind of income (and honestly, the vast majority of my circle of friends is somewhere in or near that income range) really lives any kind of opulent "upper class" lifestyle.

That's the problem. Statistical data can't "Feel".

Dusk-You-n-Me: PPP first poll of 2012:

Obama up 49% to 44% on Romney overall.

Obama up 68% to 27% on Romney with moderates.

Romney 35% favorable, 53% unfavorable.

Link (new window)

Wow. I know one poll is just one poll, but that's a hell of a swing.

Also, this gem:

"Stephen Colbert wants to run for President but he's not on the ballot in South Carolina. Americans Elect is on the ballot in a lot of states but doesn't have a candidate. Could Colbert and Americans Elect's interests intersect? We find Colbert getting 13% in a hypothetical third party run for President, compared to 41% for Obama and 38% for Romney. A Colbert bid could be a blessing in disguise for the GOP. His voters go for Obama over Romney 52-38 in a straight head to head, so his presence as a potential candidate works to the Republicans' advantage.

36% of voters have a favorable opinion of him to 28% with a negative one. His 36% favorability is better than the entire GOP field.

Cyberluddite: what_now: She and her husband make about $150-200k a year, which is certainly not middle class . . . .

Unless, possibly, they're living in East Bugfart, Oklahoma or some other place where they can buy a mansion for $75,000, that kind of income sure seems "middle class" to me. Upper middle class perhaps, and probably fairly comfortable, but certainly not "upper class." Nobody I know making that kind of income (and honestly, the vast majority of my circle of friends is somewhere in or near that income range) really lives any kind of opulent "upper class" lifestyle.

What_now does have a point, in a way. The 150-200K figure he cites isn't really middle class. Especially for a couple (with or without kids), that has become the near minimum salary level needed to have a good chance of not living paycheck to paycheck, even with tight budgeting.

what_now: Cyberluddite: "I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.


Mitt Romney made more money in one speech than most Americans do all year.

And he said it wasn't very much.

That needs to be an ad, and it needs to be shown over, and over, and over, and. . . .

adamgreeney: what_now: Cyberluddite: "I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Financial disclosure forms that candidates are required to file annually shows that Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011, at an average of $41,592 per speech.


Mitt Romney made more money in one speech than most Americans do all year.

And he said it wasn't very much.

That needs to be an ad, and it needs to be shown over, and over, and over, and. . . .

THIS!

"I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away," Mr. Romney told reporters after an event here. "And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much." Mr. Romney earned $374,327.62 in speakers fees from February of 2010 to February of 2011

I don't know why you libtards are so critical of Mitt earning a little extra money on the side. Lots of Americans do the same thing.

Why just last week, I made almost $4.00 returning some deposit cans and bottles that I found behind the 7-11.

stpauler: I had a mostly benign impression of Romney up to that moment in the debate last night. He's been a little ass-y here and there, but came off as a complete political douche right then.

Didn't watch the debate.

However I was surprised to read this morning he said he "might" release his tax returns. Might? Since when is being coy a good strategy in a Republican primary?

"Mitt, will you release your taxes?"
"mmmmmaaaaaybe... " *grins*

I think he figures (correctly) he's got it locked up.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I don't know why you libtards are so critical of Mitt earning a little extra money on the side. Lots of Americans do the same thing.

Why just last week, I made almost $4.00 returning some deposit cans and bottles that I found behind the 7-11.

Now I want to see your taxes to make sure you're paying your fair share. Why, you might make a few hundred dollars a year that way if you are really diligent.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Cyberluddite: what_now: She and her husband make about $150-200k a year, which is certainly not middle class . . . .

Unless, possibly, they're living in East Bugfart, Oklahoma or some other place where they can buy a mansion for $75,000, that kind of income sure seems "middle class" to me. Upper middle class perhaps, and probably fairly comfortable, but certainly not "upper class." Nobody I know making that kind of income (and honestly, the vast majority of my circle of friends is somewhere in or near that income range) really lives any kind of opulent "upper class" lifestyle.

What_now does have a point, in a way. The 150-200K figure he cites isn't really middle class. Especially for a couple (with or without kids), that has become the near minimum salary level needed to have a good chance of not living paycheck to paycheck, even with tight budgeting.



The median income in this country for a family of four is $49,000

You might "think" you need $150,000 to live. It might "Feel" like $200,000 is middle class. But these are hard numbers, not a social science.

vernonFL: Keep whining, Libs and RINOs.

While Romney creates jobs, 46% of Americans don't even pay income tax!

So whatever rate Romney pays, he contributes more than you.

He pays much less than I do now, but if I guess we'll see if you are right when he creates his first job.

The whole idea of "job creators" is silly anyway. Consumer demand creates jobs. Employers only hire people when they have to, until they can find some cheaper way to take advantage of demand.

And who do you think paid lobbyists to lower import duties so they could export jobs to places like China? Job destroyers is more accurate.

what_now: The median income in this country for a family of four is $49,000

You might "think" you need $150,000 to live. It might "Feel" like $200,000 is middle class. But these are hard numbers, not a social science.

...and, obviously, many Americans get by on less than that.

The median family income here in Fall River is $37,671 and while we're a small city (90,000), we're certainly not some rural farming community out in East Bumfark either.

I know it's relative to the area, but anyone touting that "$200,000 a year makes you middle class" around here will either get laughed at or punched in the face depending on which part of the city you're in.