Mormons have Utah. The Klan has Arizona.

any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Texas: boldly marching into the 19th century

Reading comprehension fail

/I hate Mondays

I think some activists abuse ethinic studies programs in order to push their political message....but that's relatively rare and no where near as organized as most GOP activists believe.

that said, I still admire Hernan Cortez. he did of old age, rich AND got to bang the hot latina princess. Not to mention he f*cked over all his enemies along the way.

Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Go read 1491 if you haven't already. It is an excellent read of what this hemisphere was actually like before Columbus.

Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

I can't speak for every book on their list, but as an educator, I found Pedagogy of the Oppressed to be very useful, and as a history buff and anthropologist, "Rethinking Columbus" was fascinating.

(And anyone who wants to ban Shakespeare should be punched in the neck.)

Off to a good start, Arizona. Now, when do the pogroms start?

GAT_00: Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Go read 1491 if you haven't already. It is an excellent read of what this hemisphere was actually like before Columbus.

I'll add that to my list. looks neat!

that said - there was certainly enough blood on the land before Columbus got here. there's evidence enough of conflict and complex societies that existed in the americas long before us white guys showed up. just turned out we were better at killing people and breaking stuff than the natives were is all.

Cubansaltyballs: Mormons have Utah. The Klan has Arizona.

Tomato, Tomahto...

The Mormons control quite a few places here in Arizona. The entire White Mountains, The East Valley, East Tucson, The Gila Valley...

Weaver95: that said - there was certainly enough blood on the land before Columbus got here. there's evidence enough of conflict and complex societies that existed in the americas long before us white guys showed up. just turned out we were better at killing people and breaking stuff than the natives were is all.

There's some reason to believe that the reason the Americas never took off technologically is because they are oriented north-south, rather than east-west. A N-S orientation limits trade, because climate changes fairly rapidly along a horizontal axis. Europe, oriented E-W, could easily and effectively trade with large parts of itself without the need to adapt to a new climate. There's also the lack of native species that could be adapted to human use, which brings me to also suggest this: Guns, Germs and Steel

I'd like to see more cites than this Salon article. Are they actually *banning* the books from school libraries, or are they saying that the classroom textbooks for classes that are no longer offered need to be shipped back to the state depositories?

Guns, germs and steel was a good read - so was 'plagues and peoples' by William McNeill. Basically, there were a lot of factors working against rapid technological development in the americas. I don't anyone has ever tried to point to ONE root cause (even if they do tend to favor pet causes of their own on the subject) as the reason europeans were technologically dominate.

tell you one thing tho - the native americans might not have all the bells and whistles we had but they certainly had technologies that worked pretty damn well for their own purposes. surprising levels of engineering and mathmatical ability, plus agricultural development and adaptablity. if they'd had another century or two to develop on their own they might have colonized europe instead of us colonizing them!

DarthBrooks: I'd like to see more cites than this Salon article. Are they actually *banning* the books from school libraries, or are they saying that the classroom textbooks for classes that are no longer offered need to be shipped back to the state depositories?

All textbook adoptions and policies are handled at the district level, so there is no state depository. If the state is forcing the district to comply with this, I see no reason why they would allow them to keep them in the library. The only way to know for sure would be to actually go to one of TUSD's libraries to see if they're keeping them. My guess is the textbooks will just end up in the district warehouse until they're OK'd to be destroyed in 5 years.

This is hardly the point, though. They can't even present the material in the classroom in an objective manner and let the kids make up their own mind. They're censoring history.

Weaver95: if they'd had another century or two to develop on their own they might have colonized europe instead of us colonizing them!

Possible, but there were no real sea powers in the Americas, which makes that less likely.

ecmoRandomNumbers: This is hardly the point, though. They can't even present the material in the classroom in an objective manner and let the kids make up their own mind. They're censoring history.

that's ok. I had to find out on my own that Carlisle Pa was where one of those 'indian schools' was located. tribal kids were seperated from their friends and families and sent here for re-education. then presumeably sent home again, assuming they survived. thing is, they had difficult time adjusting and occasionally died of various/sundry diseases. supposedly there's a cemertary around here where the US army buried those kids.

Anywho, that might have been history class more interesting when I was a kid.

GAT_00: Weaver95: if they'd had another century or two to develop on their own they might have colonized europe instead of us colonizing them!

Possible, but there were no real sea powers in the Americas, which makes that less likely.

there was certainly no reason to spur development of ships able to make the journey...but given another century they might have started building trade routes and looking for sea routes to markets up and down the coasts.

I don't even understand why they made that law, f*ck Tom Horne.

Tuscon? really?

Godscrack: Tuscon? really?

It sounds classy and Italian. Like Tuscany.

Godscrack: Tuscon? really?

Books: The Bane of Conservatism

DarthBrooks: I'd like to see more cites than this Salon article. Are they actually *banning* the books from school libraries, or are they saying that the classroom textbooks for classes that are no longer offered need to be shipped back to the state depositories?

Ditto. The comments have me wondering what actually happened and the author.editors did a piss poor job of sourcing.

GAT_00: Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Go read 1491 if you haven't already. It is an excellent read of what this hemisphere was actually like before Columbus.

Charles C. Mann also just came out fairly recently with 1493, about the Columbian exchange and all the stuff that happened post-Columbus. A fascinating read as well because historians rarely get into the science behind things and bother to explain things like how malaria got to the USA in the first place or what happens when you try to mine a giant mountain of silver in South America.

Saw him in a lecture a few months back, and it was most excellent.

Andromeda: GAT_00: Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Go read 1491 if you haven't already. It is an excellent read of what this hemisphere was actually like before Columbus.

Charles C. Mann also just came out fairly recently with 1493, about the Columbian exchange and all the stuff that happened post-Columbus. A fascinating read as well because historians rarely get into the science behind things and bother to explain things like how malaria got to the USA in the first place or what happens when you try to mine a giant mountain of silver in South America.

Saw him in a lecture a few months back, and it was most excellent.

I'd recommend it, but I haven't read it yet.

DarthBrooks: I'd like to see more cites than this Salon article. Are they actually *banning* the books from school libraries, or are they saying that the classroom textbooks for classes that are no longer offered need to be shipped back to the state depositories?

Well, nothing bad has ever happened in a schoolbook depository in the southwest, so this shouldn't pose a problem.

Arizona: It's a dry hate.

I... I...

huh

I'm speechless.

It reads like an Onion piece.

FloydA: Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

I can't speak for every book on their list, but as an educator, I found Pedagogy of the Oppressed to be very useful, and as a history buff and anthropologist, "Rethinking Columbus" was fascinating.

(And anyone who wants to ban Shakespeare should be punched in the neck.)

Paolo Freire is the MAN. *fist bump from fellow anthropologist*

Weaver95: Guns, germs and steel was a good read - so was 'plagues and peoples' by William McNeill. Basically, there were a lot of factors working against rapid technological development in the americas. I don't anyone has ever tried to point to ONE root cause (even if they do tend to favor pet causes of their own on the subject) as the reason europeans were technologically dominate.

People cite Guns, Germs, and Steel WAY too much. It's an interesting take, but not gospel. There are many different theories as to the dominance of the West in the past couple of centuries.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Reading comprehension fail

/I hate Mondays

Is the silicone chip inside your head switched to overload?

/please don't shoot a bunch of elementary school kids

Tom Horn and John Huppenthal are asswipes that need to be thrown out of politics, here.

The stream of stupid white power assholes here seems unlimited.

Huppenthal gets humiliated by a high school student (new window).

Tom Horne withholds fundings over ethnic studies (new window).

Both come from the East Valley. Both come from Phoenix's Mormon Stronghold. As did Russell Pearce. As have others. Most think Arizona began with the entry of Pioneers into the state. Nothing existed before! Except Nephites and Lamanites. Pathetic.

GAT_00: Weaver95: any time any government bans any book it just makes me want to get a copy and read it, even if I otherwise wouldn't like the subject.

Go read 1491 if you haven't already. It is an excellent read of what this hemisphere was actually like before Columbus.

I LOVE this book. I second this. Heartily.

violentsalvation: I don't even understand why they made that law, f*ck Tom Horne.

Agreed. This state drives me insane.

coco ebert: People cite Guns, Germs, and Steel WAY too much. It's an interesting take, but not gospel. There are many different theories as to the dominance of the West in the past couple of centuries.

It's cited a lot because it's good starting reading, but people often never get past the starting reading. It's like a good 100-level class.

Kids and teachers of Arizona, protest this by bringing copies of The Tempest to class every day. I want to see the school district try and suspend you for reading Shakespeare.

This is EXACTLY why I think State Rights argument is bullshiat. It's far to easy for local/state governments to be filled with idiot extremist. Both right and left.

In a meeting this week, administrators informed Mexican-American studies teachers to stay away from any units where "race, ethnicity and oppression are central themes," including the teaching of Shakespeare's classic in Mexican-American literature courses.

Happy Martin Luther King, Jr. Day!!

coco ebert:
Paolo Freire is the MAN. *fist bump from fellow anthropologist*




R'spec.

To be a bit more even-handed, the school board is only doing this because they're facing purse-strings blackmail from the state of AZ to the tune of $14M.

However, there's a court challenge to the state law going; while the complaints of teachers have been booted from the court, and the request for a preliminary injunction was refused, standing for a complaint was recognized for a couple of the students.