If you have to relearn a program might as well look into cheaper alternatives.

Nice find, subby.

FTFA: "The perception here is that Apple is more concerned with selling iPads and iPhones than they are with the people who have stuck with them since the 90's, the professional editors and VFX people,"

Of course Apple is more interested in selling millions of devices to millions of people who then by many millions more worth of apps and music. The real surprise is they made a new version at all.

I'm not a videographer or graphics person, but even I've just wondered what Apple is doing with their MBP line. It's still a strong brand, but it seems like the support from Apple is going towards iThings rather than their Mac computers.

Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

This just in... Large corporations are going to seek to sell the product that most benefits their bottom line. Apple is a large corporation. If you thought otherwise, then can count yourself among the "Tweeners, people with a little $, time and creativity, the Indie crowd."

Tom_Slick: FTFA: "The perception here is that Apple is more concerned with selling iPads and iPhones than they are with the people who have stuck with them since the 90's, the professional editors and VFX people,"

Of course Apple is more interested in selling millions of devices to millions of people who then by many millions more worth of apps and music. The real surprise is they made a new version at all.

I think the real question is why they don't feel like they can make money doing both.

My theory is that Steve Jobs was a bottleneck in the company because he was a control freak and would personally micromanage and approve new designs. As a result, the company as a whole can only be as productive as Steve Jobs. For the past few years all we've had were iThings and the Macbook Air so Jobs didn't have time for anything else. Now that he's gone they'll probably start sharing out creative control and we'll see a more balanced view going forward.

sexy-fetus: If you have to relearn a program might as well look into cheaper alternatives.

Pretty much this. Entire rewrites tend to push a portion of users away (oh hai, Sonar X).

Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

"Now Avid, by default, is going to revert back the to industry standard."

Ouch! I was reading along just fine but suddenly developed a painful charlie horse in my brain.

cman: If only people had the same attitude when Microsoft switched to that ribbon bullshiat in Office 2007

The problem with your analogy is that the Ribbon wasn't a reduction of features, it was just different. And when you know how to use it, it's very efficient.

Apple's situation with Final Cut is totally different.

ha-ha-guy: Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

Ya. I've got Ubuntu on mine to do real work, but I dual boot with OS X so I can watch Netflix and play a few games.

OS X is annoying as hell. It's too fruity for Unix users and lacks the compatibility of Windows. I'd triple boot if I could ever figure out how with a EFI bootloader.

lohphat: ha-ha-guy: Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

Why would you pay a 30% premium for a mediocre wintel box?

I didn't pay anything for it. Work issued hardware.

Fubini: Tom_Slick: FTFA: "The perception here is that Apple is more concerned with selling iPads and iPhones than they are with the people who have stuck with them since the 90's, the professional editors and VFX people,"

Of course Apple is more interested in selling millions of devices to millions of people who then by many millions more worth of apps and music. The real surprise is they made a new version at all.

I think the real question is why they don't feel like they can make money doing both.

My theory is that Steve Jobs was a bottleneck in the company because he was a control freak and would personally micromanage and approve new designs. As a result, the company as a whole can only be as productive as Steve Jobs. For the past few years all we've had were iThings and the Macbook Air so Jobs didn't have time for anything else. Now that he's gone they'll probably start sharing out creative control and we'll see a more balanced view going forward.

That was certainly true in the immediate aftermath of Steve Jobs' return to Apple, when he cancelled every product line and relaunched with a four-product matrix (consumer and pro of desktop and portable), but that was a long time ago and now simplicity is a choice, not a necessity. Part of it is making sure executives don't get their bandwidth overloaded to the point where they have to choose which products will be great and which will be just OK, but from the outset when Jobs described that old four-square matrix it was clear he believed it was equally important that the public be able to understand in simple terms everything Apple does.

lohphat: ha-ha-guy: Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

Why would you pay a 30% premium for a mediocre wintel box?

I got my MBP from work so there was no premium for me, but the casing is incredibly solid. The MBP also has good audio, has a beautiful screen, has a nice backlit keyboard, and the large multi-touch pad is incredibly convenient once you get used to it. The downsides for me is that you can't carry extra batteries, the casing gets very hot compared to other laptops, and there's no pageup/pagedown key (important for Unix terminals).

I've also got a really nice Dell Latitude professional grade laptop (E6500), and the MBP is easily twice as durable. After two years the Dell is having problems with rubber feet coming off all over and the screen hinge is getting wobbly, but the MBP after one and a half feels pretty much the same as it did on day one.

Kuroshin: I don't think Apple cares...

Apple Care costs extra.

lohphat: ha-ha-guy: Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

Why would you pay a 30% premium for a mediocre wintel box?

To make the whitebox nerds groan.

Fubini: Tom_Slick: FTFA: "The perception here is that Apple is more concerned with selling iPads and iPhones than they are with the people who have stuck with them since the 90's, the professional editors and VFX people,"

Of course Apple is more interested in selling millions of devices to millions of people who then by many millions more worth of apps and music. The real surprise is they made a new version at all.

I think the real question is why they don't feel like they can make money doing both.

My theory is that Steve Jobs was a bottleneck in the company because he was a control freak and would personally micromanage and approve new designs. As a result, the company as a whole can only be as productive as Steve Jobs. For the past few years all we've had were iThings and the Macbook Air so Jobs didn't have time for anything else. Now that he's gone they'll probably start sharing out creative control and we'll see a more balanced view going forward.

The company's focus has shifted. They aren't in the market to cater to professionals that require specialty features, dedicated/specialty support, customizable products, etc.. While it may be profitable to run that line of business, the opportunity cost of running that line of business may be untenable when the alternative is to use that money to acquire a new startup with some great new tech or launching a new consumer product yielding potentially much higher profit margins. The current operating model is efficient, profitable, and reliable. Expanding the business focus diverts resources and money from the most profitable parts of the business and incurs significant risk. Since Apple is still growing rapidly, that kind of risk is unnecessary and unlikely to be beneficial for anyone involved.

bemis23: The company's focus has shifted. They aren't in the market to cater to professionals that require specialty features, dedicated/specialty support, customizable products, etc.. While it may be profitable to run that line of business, the opportunity cost of running that line of business may be untenable when the alternative is to use that money to acquire a new startup with some great new tech or launching a new consumer product yielding potentially much higher profit margins. The current operating model is efficient, profitable, and reliable. Expanding the business focus diverts resources and money from the most profitable parts of the business and incurs significant risk. Since Apple is still growing rapidly, that kind of risk is unnecessary and unlikely to be beneficial for anyone involved.

That makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking. I guess it's all a risk/reward judgement isn't it?

I actually work in the film industry so getting a kick etc, and, unlike the pundits mentioned in TFA, I *do* work on 1-4Tb projects involving thousands of clips.

I wouldn`t touch Final cut with a bargepole and much prefer Adobe and Avid. Don`t get me wrong, we have a mac pro upstairs with FCP installed so it`s not ignorance that leads my decision, it`s formats, codecs and workflow that is important. Whilst it is possible to network windows and mac, it`s a pain in the arse and it`s just easier to stick with one package on machines that link up easily and allows us to farm out sections of workflow to other filmmakers we have agreements with (who also don`t use mac)

Whilst Macs and FCP `just work` in isolation, we find that in the real world they are a barrier to productivity in a work setting. Your experience may vary...

suck it FCP, your crappy media management and subpar editing system needs to go. Avid all the way

cman: If only people had the same attitude when Microsoft switched to that ribbon bullshiat in Office 2007

You don't lose anything with the ribbon, it fact it has more features, they're just packaged differently. Like any software update it just takes a little time to adapt (in your case a lot of time apparently).

Fubini: I've also got a really nice Dell Latitude professional grade laptop (E6500), and the MBP is easily twice as durable. After two years the Dell is having problems with rubber feet coming off all over and the screen hinge is getting wobbly, but the MBP after one and a half feels pretty much the same as it did on day one.

The Latitude machines are ok, but if you were to compare 'apples-to-apples' I'd look to Dell's Precision line of laptops. They're very well built and trounce the MBP in terms of performance - at a cost of battery-life and weight.

dready zim: I actually work in the film industry so getting a kick etc, and, unlike the pundits mentioned in TFA, I *do* work on 1-4Tb projects involving thousands of clips.

I wouldn`t touch Final cut with a bargepole and much prefer Adobe and Avid. Don`t get me wrong, we have a mac pro upstairs with FCP installed so it`s not ignorance that leads my decision, it`s formats, codecs and workflow that is important. Whilst it is possible to network windows and mac, it`s a pain in the arse and it`s just easier to stick with one package on machines that link up easily and allows us to farm out sections of workflow to other filmmakers we have agreements with (who also don`t use mac)

Whilst Macs and FCP `just work` in isolation, we find that in the real world they are a barrier to productivity in a work setting. Your experience may vary...

And you have described everything about Apple computers in a nutshell. Fun for endusers. Bad for businesses and people who do real work. Unless your real work is music. Apple seems to have music locked up pretty good right now.

they're probably tired of over-paying for under performing pieces of equipment, and enjoy the flexibility, affordability, and high end performance that is synonymous with Windows.

Sounds about right: Make a name for yourself with the creative-types, wait until you have a contingent of customers who think they're creative-types but really just browse Facebook, throw the professionals under the bus, make even more money.

I just wonder if the whole image of artistic users they built up will be enough to sustain them or if, once no actual creative professionals prefer them, the wannabes will drop off too.

MrSteve007: Fubini: I've also got a really nice Dell Latitude professional grade laptop (E6500), and the MBP is easily twice as durable. After two years the Dell is having problems with rubber feet coming off all over and the screen hinge is getting wobbly, but the MBP after one and a half feels pretty much the same as it did on day one.

The Latitude machines are ok, but if you were to compare 'apples-to-apples' I'd look to Dell's Precision line of laptops. They're very well built and trounce the MBP in terms of performance - at a cost of battery-life and weight.

Yes, this. For a long time the only want to get something comparable to the MBP was a Precision Mobile Workstation. Namely the built in video camera and a real processor (instead of a Centrino or whatever it was). We do a lot of meetings with remote people so that was key. MBPs also had a massive advantage on pixel density over most other laptops on the market.

Dell has finally rolled out some MBP clone. A brushed aluminum case, thin design, camera, backlight keyboard, etc. When you price it out though low and behold it costs about as much as a MBP (150 dollars or so less on the one I specced out).

I'm likely grabbing up an Air as a personal computer next time I buy. I went through the whole build my own phase and I still do when it makes sense (my Media PC is a gutted Apple II case that I fitted a modern system in to). However as I get older I like being to drop by the mall on my way home from work, hand the computer to some kid in a turtle neck and say "Fix it".

/also magsafe has saved my laptop from an ignoble death a few times

lohphat: ha-ha-guy: lohphat: ha-ha-guy: Fubini: Honestly, the nicest thing about the MBP is the casing. I'd be curious to find out how many people have an MBP but don't run OSX.

Mine is pretty much always booted in Win7. I do hate that they *burns leg* use the bottom as a heat sink though.

Why would you pay a 30% premium for a mediocre wintel box?

I didn't pay anything for it. Work issued hardware.

Your company stock took the hit. In a way you did pay for it.

We were under US Treasury control during the last round of hardware upgrades and only the Treasury had stock in us. So I guess the taxpayers footed the bill.

/plus we have to integrate iPhones in cars and make sure the iPhone app can start the car
//and of course the Apple Dev Tools only run on OS X

ha-ha-guy: Dell has finally rolled out some MBP clone. A brushed aluminum case, thin design, camera, backlight keyboard, etc. When you price it out though low and behold it costs about as much as a MBP (150 dollars or so less on the one I specced out).

FTFY. Well, partially.

/pet peeve

Director_Mr: And you have described everything about Apple computers in a nutshell. Fun for endusers. Bad for businesses and people who do real work. Unless your real work is music. Apple seems to have music locked up pretty good right now.

I don't know about that. There are several world-class DAWs on the Windows platform. I've never fully understood the whole "If you're a musician use a Mac" sentiment. The availability of creative software being biased towards Mac may have been true a long time ago, but it's no longer the case. My theory is that musicians from Mac's temporary rule of the music scene are now too comfortable with the platform to switch.

But there is nothing a Mac does better than a PC in terms of production. Nothing.

Given that Apple has screwed its Mac user base over not once, but twice with CPU architecture changes (M68K - PowerPC - Intel), I guess I can't be too surprised they'd pull a move like this. It looks like this time around, though, some people aren't just going to say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

how many cores can you buy in a "off the shelf" mac now anyways ?

Never much cared for FCP anyway.

MrSteve007: The Latitude machines are ok, but if you were to compare 'apples-to-apples' I'd look to Dell's Precision line of laptops. They're very well built and trounce the MBP in terms of performance - at a cost of battery-life and weight.

IME, the Latitudes and Precisions are pretty much the same guts. In some cases, they are identical hardware, with the video identifying itself differently so that it can use the ISV certified drivers.

theorellior: lohphat: Your company stock took the hit. In a way you did pay for it.

LOLWUT.

In his defense, if you're a small or midsized business the fact you paid an extra million or two for MBPs (versus bulk buying off Dell/HP/etc) will impact your profit in a meaningful way and thus move the stock price. Around here if they bought all five thousand people at the Tech Center a MBP (which they don't) it doesn't move the needle. Assuming a MBP is "overpriced" by 400 dollars, it means we dropped 2 million extra on equipment.

Market cap is 38 billion and an extra two million every 4 years on hardware upgrades. That's not even going to register on the stock ticket. We can piss away a million dollars (in MSRP figures) of vehicles in an afternoon of crash testing.

/plus IT claims OS X has a lower cost of ownership
//which everyone accepts since lets us get shiny new upgrades

Leader O'Cola: how many cores can you buy in a "off the shelf" mac now anyways ?

Looks like the MBPs run up to quad-core i7s now. The Mac Pro desktops look like they go up to dual hex-core Westmeres.

Though, I thought I remember reading somewhere they were thinking about dropping the Mac Pro product line.

MrSteve007: Fubini: I've also got a really nice Dell Latitude professional grade laptop (E6500), and the MBP is easily twice as durable. After two years the Dell is having problems with rubber feet coming off all over and the screen hinge is getting wobbly, but the MBP after one and a half feels pretty much the same as it did on day one.

The Latitude machines are ok, but if you were to compare 'apples-to-apples' I'd look to Dell's Precision line of laptops. They're very well built and trounce the MBP in terms of performance - at a cost of battery-life and weight.

The Latitude and Precision lines have the same case (or at least did when I got mine). E.g. look up the Precision M4400 and Latitude E6500. The back cover of the M4400 is silver and has a design on it, but I really doubt that it's structurally stronger.

So the Latitude vs. MBP is a valid comparison in terms of build quality.

cman: If only people had the same attitude when Microsoft switched to that ribbon bullshiat in Office 2007

Oh, God. I _hate_ Office 2007. And 2010 is even worse. What the hell were they thinking?