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(Memphis Commercial Appeal)   Police feel they did nothing wrong by interrogating a 12 year old for hours with the camera "accidentally" turned off and getting to confess to a crime he denied doing before and after the "confession"   (commercialappeal.com) divider line 314
    More: Asinine, tennessee legislature, false confessions, Innocence Project, Judy Blume, confessions, strangling, interrogations, homicides  
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19856 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2012 at 11:00 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-14 11:32:28 PM  
mysterymile.files.wordpress.com


Our justice must be swift and merciless.

/right, boyo?
 
2012-01-14 11:32:41 PM  

Silverstaff: LordJiro: Sim Tree: Police will commonly tell suspects that DNA evidence, etc. will find them innocent later. Most people believe in the idea of justice, so they fall for it, since 'justice' will let them free if they are innocent.

Example: "We have the security video from the crime scene. If you confess and plead guilty, you'll look as if you're cooperating and you'll get better treatment while you're here, and a shorter sentence if you're guilty. If the camera shows you are innocent, hey, then you'll get off at trial, and no harm done. And you'll still have gotten the better treatment here, so, bonus!

To many people that sounds win/ win, so they confess.

Of course, at trial, the confession is submitted as factual evidence and 'What security camera footage?'

^ This. My sister's fiancee got caught in that kind of crap on a false rape charge. Bam, sex offender for life.

Don't plead guilty if you didn't do it.

A guilty plea is a confession, end of story. Anybody who enters a guilty plea and doesn't know they are de jure confessing to the crime in question, well, either had a total idiot for an attorney, or was a total idiot themselves.

The "Alford Plea", a.k.a. No Contest is what you would use to plead what is guilty without a confession. You'll still get the punishment for the crime, but you are not confessing, just admitting they have enough evidence to convict you without admitting you did it.


We get it, Torquemada, sheesh.
 
2012-01-14 11:33:12 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: How do you know when a cop is lying?


They're not eating?
 
2012-01-14 11:33:22 PM  

doglover: namatad: the only thing that you should ever say to a cop is

am I under arrest?
am I free to go?
bring me my lawyer

In Japan you don't get that last one. They can hold ya for up to 30 days for NOTHIN' and interrogate you that whole time. 99% conviction rate and most convictions are confessions.



As of January 01, 2012, in the US they can hold you FOREVER and interrogate you (or whatever) the whole time. No evidence, no charges, no lawyer no trial. Ever.

Suspected
terrorist?

Thanks, NDAA.
 
2012-01-14 11:34:13 PM  
media.commercialappeal.com
In league with Satan.
 
2012-01-14 11:34:38 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: How do you know when a cop is lying?


He's posting on Fark?
 
2012-01-14 11:36:02 PM  
Silverstaff: Yeah, if you're subjected to a Terry Stop, a cop has at least some suspicion that you've done something illegal

Sorry LEO, but that is demonstrably false. Link (new window)

But in general, I agree with you. If you are doing nothing wrong, just play along. The second you are arrested, shut up and ask for a lawyer. That said, I'm a white chick, and less likely to be discriminated against.

/My brother got in trouble. Officer lied. Brother could prove it so they shunted him into a pre-trial intervention program. He did break the law, but the charge was for something worse than he did. But nothing bad happened to the liar.
 
2012-01-14 11:36:58 PM  

Silverstaff: namatad: am I under arrest?
am I free to go?
bring me my lawyer

You hear Internet Lawyers with their GED's in Law saying that crap all the time.

In the real world, on the streets, taking that act with a cop will cause a lot more trouble than it's worth.

In the US, there is something called a "Terry Stop", from the SCOTUS case Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968) (Link (new window))

In a Terry stop, No you are NOT free to go, you are NOT under arrest, and you do NOT have the right to an attorney. You are only briefly detained, but if the police have "reasonable suspicion" that you are up to something illegal, they can detain you long enough to ask you what is going on and give you a chance to explain yourself. You can be frisked for presence of weapons, and any contraband that is plainly obvious on even a superficial frisk, in a traffic stop this can include glove compartments being searched. Traffic stops are considered a type of "Terry Stop".

That was expanded in the SCOTUS case Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004) Link (new window) Where the Supreme Court ruled that if you are subjected to a Terry Stop, you must identify yourself to the Police if they ask for your identification. Clamming up and repeating that little speech will just make trouble, possibly resulting in an arrest.

Suddenly refusing to talk to a cop when he comes up to you and starts asking questions is a quick way to make things go from bad to worse. Yeah, if you're subjected to a Terry Stop, a cop has at least some suspicion that you've done something illegal, and acting very evasive and agitated is a way to make those suspicions get very big very quickly. Calmly explaining what you're doing instead of something illegal makes the problem go away.

You get the right to an attorney when you are actually accused of a crime, which is typically upon arrest, not the moment a police officer tries to ask you questions because he's trying to see if a crime has happened, is happening or is about to happen.

/Law Enforcement Officer


Yes, but what they are referring to is a cop doesn't have to inform you that you are, in fact, under arrest. And during your "lets just work this out" phase they are in fact already putting you in arrest but are trying to dig your hole deeper.
 
2012-01-14 11:37:51 PM  

Silverstaff: You are only briefly detained, but if the police have "reasonable suspicion" that you are up to something illegal, they can detain you long enough to ask you what is going on and give you a chance to explain yourself.


Well you could give your name, and refuse to say anything else without a lawyer. You can't detain the person indefinitely. I don't see how that invalidates namatad's advice. It won't make the LEO happy, but given the deep mistrust of police among many people, that's not really a downside.
 
2012-01-14 11:38:48 PM  

Amos Quito: As of January 01, 2012, in the US they can hold you FOREVER and interrogate you (or whatever) the whole time. No evidence, no charges, no lawyer no trial. Ever.


Yeah, but we don't accept it as a rule.

Here, it's been the policy for a LONG time. Plus prisoners drop like flies.
 
2012-01-14 11:39:06 PM  
My first week of High School I was picked up with three friends
60 feet away from campus during lunch break hour. We were standing
near an apartment easement reading my friends new Surfing magazine.
The police pulled up and yelled at us to put our books in their trunk and get in the car.
They threw us in a jail cell and never contacted our parents. One by one they
separated us and took mugshots. We were terrified, the entire time they never said why they put us in jail.
Two to three hours later they let us go saying,
"We, uh...have the wrong guys", and dumped us off in front of the school.

/Santa Barbara Police Dept. can suck it.
//yeah, yeah...cool story bro, right?
 
2012-01-14 11:39:14 PM  

Silverstaff: The "Alford Plea", a.k.a. No Contest is what you would use to plead what is guilty without a confession. You'll still get the punishment for the crime, but you are not confessing, just admitting they have enough evidence to convict you without admitting you did it.


The Alford case was a bit more complex than a nolo contendre situation.
 
2012-01-14 11:39:19 PM  
False confessions?

Nu
rem
berg
 
2012-01-14 11:40:17 PM  
The cops in question???

antithaksin.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-01-14 11:41:40 PM  
Having read a highly biased opinion piece written by zealots who pandered directly to my juvenile need to believe The Man is always out to railroad the innocent, and possessing absolutely no information whatsoever directly pertaining to the case, I find myself convinced that this is a huge miscarriage of justice.
 
2012-01-14 11:42:48 PM  

Amos Quito: As of January 01, 2012, in the US they can hold you FOREVER and interrogate you (or whatever) the whole time. No evidence, no charges, no lawyer no trial. Ever.


t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-01-14 11:43:28 PM  
After you wade through a lot of shiat and get to the meat of the story, it sounds like this all over again:

www.cbsnews.com
 
2012-01-14 11:44:22 PM  

Amos Quito: False confessions?

Nu
rem
berg


Awwww....you think we care about the Nazi High Command getting hanged. How precious.
 
2012-01-14 11:44:35 PM  

Shostie: SilentStrider: Love the speed of our justice system. let me tell you.

I'd much rather have a justice system that moves ponderously slow to one that makes snap, knee-jerk decisions.


You're not rotting in jail.
 
2012-01-14 11:45:45 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: After you wade through a lot of shiat and get to the meat of the story, it sounds like this all over again:

[www.cbsnews.com image 540x405]


Yes, it does IN FACT sound like someone got away with murdering children again because Teh Intrantubes thinks it's smarter than people who actually had first-hand knowledge of the case, including the Prosecution's side, and not just the Defense.
 
2012-01-14 11:46:00 PM  

etymxris: Silverstaff: You are only briefly detained, but if the police have "reasonable suspicion" that you are up to something illegal, they can detain you long enough to ask you what is going on and give you a chance to explain yourself.

Well you could give your name, and refuse to say anything else without a lawyer. You can't detain the person indefinitely. I don't see how that invalidates namatad's advice. It won't make the LEO happy, but given the deep mistrust of police among many people, that's not really a downside.


But not saying anything doesn't make sense. Anything you say can and will be used to help you in the court of law. When you are in front of the judge the LEO will stand up and say something like, "Wait a minute, when I was talking to the guy he clearly explained everything to me. This whole thing was just a big misunderstanding."

/maybe I have that backwards
 
2012-01-14 11:46:03 PM  
In related news, welcome to America - Land of the Free*, Home of the Brave


*certain restrictions apply, offer not available everywhere, subject to termination without notice
 
2012-01-14 11:46:41 PM  

Silverstaff: Traffic stops are considered a type of "Terry Stop".


You might need to be much more specific. Not every traffic stop is a terry stop - you can't reasonably search someone's car because of a speed violation.

And if you don't understand that, some day it will cost you your job.
 
2012-01-14 11:46:47 PM  

namatad: asked for food
they turned the camera off
here is what happened while the camera was off

pigs) well we can give you food, but only if you confess
victim) but I am hungry!!!!
pigs) well, you are going to starve to death unless you dont confess
victim) I did it, please dont let me starve to death!

camera is turned back on

/what is wrong with these asshats?


they used to work as phone slammers? the skills translate.

/jail them all
//they should never work in law enforcement again
///except we'd also then have no police force
/this is biz as usual with cops
 
2012-01-14 11:47:41 PM  

Silverstaff: Suddenly refusing to talk to a cop when he comes up to you and starts asking questions is a quick way to make things go from bad to worse. Yeah, if you're subjected to a Terry Stop, a cop has at least some suspicion that you've done something illegal, and acting very evasive and agitated is a way to make those suspicions get very big very quickly. Calmly explaining what you're doing instead of something illegal makes the problem go away.


ROFL
cops make terry stops all the time for no reason at all other than to fark with people. hello............
where do you live?
chicago? cops spend most of the time illegally executing terry stops on brown people.

and funny, but the point of using derp speak is that your average tard wont be able to remember terry stop and blah blah blah


DONT SPEAK TO COPS
sure, speeding ticket, whatever

but anything more than that, WHY would you put your life in danger?
 
2012-01-14 11:48:10 PM  
This is what happens when you elect Democrats or Republicans.
 
2012-01-14 11:48:29 PM  

Amos Quito: False confessions?

Nu
rem
berg


1.bp.blogspot.com

"Shyeah.
Nu
Rem
Berg.

Riiight."
 
2012-01-14 11:49:12 PM  

AcneVulgaris: Shostie: SilentStrider: Love the speed of our justice system. let me tell you.

I'd much rather have a justice system that moves ponderously slow to one that makes snap, knee-jerk decisions.

You're not rotting in jail.


You can invoke your right to a speedy trial at any time. In most states, you can force a trial within six months, which hardly seems "speedy", but beats two years.
 
2012-01-14 11:50:18 PM  
People will often confess knowing that other evidence will exonerate them. They don't expect it to go to trial, instead expecting someone with higher authority to step in, but this never happens.

Amanda Knox was interrogated for 24 hours straight by the Italian police without a legally required interpreter. She did not confess, but implicated another suspect at the behest of the police. She was then sued in civil trial, and lost, when she complained to the media that the police extracted false testimony from her. They also used the false testimony as evidence against her at her own trial.

Don't talk to the police without a lawyer present.
 
2012-01-14 11:52:47 PM  

evilboyevil: Don't talk to the police without a lawyer present.


And a 12 year old knows this how?
 
2012-01-14 11:53:19 PM  

Mavent: AcneVulgaris: Shostie: SilentStrider: Love the speed of our justice system. let me tell you.

I'd much rather have a justice system that moves ponderously slow to one that makes snap, knee-jerk decisions.

You're not rotting in jail.

You can invoke your right to a speedy trial at any time. In most states, you can force a trial within six months, which hardly seems "speedy", but beats two years.


Hell, 2 years is better than 10, 25, or an execution. Why invoke your speedy trial? 2 years is LUXURY!
 
2012-01-14 11:53:35 PM  

doglover: Nor did he know that police are allowed to lie to get a confession.


They are?

Normally I'm not against the police, even when they're obviously in the wrong. I think we should, however make public service announcements to the whole country. Take "Click it or ticket." and "Wear your helmet." and replace them with "Police can lie." and "Loose lips sink ships." and "Snitches get prison rape."


Don't forget the biggest one:

DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER
 
2012-01-14 11:54:36 PM  
It's anathema to Fark - the simple minded 20 year old liberal children who frequent here - wanting a hand out. Doesn't matter who you hurt - who you rob - as long as you get yours - fark them all - fark them - I want mine. The Entitlement Generation.
 
2012-01-14 11:55:49 PM  

steamingpile: I still wonder about these people who say people wont confess to crimes they dont commit, well keep a person up for 36 hours or just limited sleep and they will say anything just to make it stop.

Its also interesting that now the prosecutors are telling people they have to plead to lesser charges to get out rather than just dropping the charges, no doubt to save them the embarrassment from getting sued. The cops and DAs are pathetic, an asst DA here in the south is a family friend but biatched at me when I said I would never convict anyone of pot possession or intent to distribute, this went on for hours of her telling me how wrong that was, she completely missed the irony that we had gotten stoned in our car before going in to see the band.

Get a conviction thats all that matters, fairness or guilt be damned!


And I still wonder about Republicans and conservatives who think torture, including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other atrocities are nothing to be worried about when our soldiers perform such acts, because of the intelligence and confessions gained from the victims.
 
2012-01-14 11:57:51 PM  

thamike: Amos Quito: As of January 01, 2012, in the US they can hold you FOREVER and interrogate you (or whatever) the whole time. No evidence, no charges, no lawyer no trial. Ever.

[t1.gstatic.com image 182x276]



Am I wrong? Please prove it.

I'll feel better, and so will you.
 
2012-01-14 11:58:46 PM  

crazytrain: It's anathema to Fark - the simple minded 20 year old liberal children who frequent here - wanting a hand out. Doesn't matter who you hurt - who you rob - as long as you get yours - fark them all - fark them - I want mine. The Entitlement Generation.


I'm sure this is applicable to another thread, but I'm having trouble placing it in this context.
 
2012-01-14 11:59:52 PM  

crazytrain: It's anathema to Fark - the simple minded 20 year old liberal children who frequent here - wanting a hand out. Doesn't matter who you hurt - who you rob - as long as you get yours - fark them all - fark them - I want mine. The Entitlement Generation.


Wrong thread?
 
2012-01-15 12:00:02 AM  

crazytrain: It's anathema to Fark - the simple minded 20 year old liberal children who frequent here - wanting a hand out. Doesn't matter who you hurt - who you rob - as long as you get yours - fark them all - fark them - I want mine. The Entitlement Generation.


I don't understand this rant. How does a sense of entitlement apply to a 12 year old being investigated?

//not 20 years old.
//jury still out if simple minded applies.
 
2012-01-15 12:00:28 AM  

NEDM: Amos Quito: False confessions?

Nu
rem
berg

Awwww....you think we care about the Nazi High Command getting hanged. How precious.



Forgive me. I thought we were talking about false confessions.
 
2012-01-15 12:00:55 AM  
The interrogator should be put to death. The fark, man? The kid's 12; he's going to break and say anything you want him to say.
 
2012-01-15 12:01:12 AM  

Silverstaff: Don't plead guilty if you didn't do it.

A guilty plea is a confession, end of story. Anybody who enters a guilty plea and doesn't know they are de jure confessing to the crime in question, well, either had a total idiot for an attorney, or was a total idiot themselves.


Yeah, I mean it's not like it's your job to find out who ACTUALLY committed a crime. It's just your job to get someone to confess.
 
2012-01-15 12:02:22 AM  

bravian: evilboyevil: Don't talk to the police without a lawyer present.

And a 12 year old knows this how?


I told my 12 year old step kid(now 16), he does not talk to any authority figure when they are accusing him of anything unless his mom, his dad, or me are allowed to be present and hes allowed to just not speak at all.

This was all in relation to our neighbors destroying property and they were trying to implicate him when he had nothing to do with it.
 
2012-01-15 12:02:39 AM  
thamike, hixeyanne - you're right - rant was mis-placed - will try to do better - wish you both the best.
 
2012-01-15 12:02:53 AM  

Amos Quito: Am I wrong? Please prove it.

I'll feel better, and so will you.


Let's be efficient here. Why don't you decide whether or not you intend on backing up your statements.
 
2012-01-15 12:03:02 AM  

RminusQ: Silverstaff: Don't plead guilty if you didn't do it.

A guilty plea is a confession, end of story. Anybody who enters a guilty plea and doesn't know they are de jure confessing to the crime in question, well, either had a total idiot for an attorney, or was a total idiot themselves.

Yeah, I mean it's not like it's your job to find out who ACTUALLY committed a crime. It's just your job to get someone to confess.



This.

And the prosecutor's job is to convict. Someone.
 
2012-01-15 12:04:26 AM  

RminusQ: And I still wonder about Republicans and conservatives who think torture, including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other atrocities are nothing to be worried about when our soldiers perform such acts, because of the intelligence and confessions gained from the victims.


If torture doesnt work in the first 15 minutes then it will never work, torture is mainly done because of sick individuals and any information gathered from that is usually false or irrelevant.
 
2012-01-15 12:05:05 AM  

thamike: crazytrain: It's anathema to Fark - the simple minded 20 year old liberal children who frequent here - wanting a hand out. Doesn't matter who you hurt - who you rob - as long as you get yours - fark them all - fark them - I want mine. The Entitlement Generation.

I'm sure this is applicable to another thread, but I'm having trouble placing it in this context.


He's a trollin' for libs.
 
2012-01-15 12:05:33 AM  

namatad: Silverstaff: Suddenly refusing to talk to a cop when he comes up to you and starts asking questions is a quick way to make things go from bad to worse. Yeah, if you're subjected to a Terry Stop, a cop has at least some suspicion that you've done something illegal, and acting very evasive and agitated is a way to make those suspicions get very big very quickly. Calmly explaining what you're doing instead of something illegal makes the problem go away.

ROFL
cops make terry stops all the time for no reason at all other than to fark with people. hello............
where do you live?
chicago? cops spend most of the time illegally executing terry stops on brown people.

and funny, but the point of using derp speak is that your average tard wont be able to remember terry stop and blah blah blah


DONT SPEAK TO COPS
sure, speeding ticket, whatever

but anything more than that, WHY would you put your life in danger?


9 times out of ten, it's easier just to roll with it, even if there is no apparent justification for the stop. This is partly because the cop could be legitimately mistaken, and partly because if you don't give them a reason to arrest you, they probably won't.

Calling for a lawyer the instant a cop so much as says hello, while perhaps legal, will do little more then aggravate the cop, wasting your time and racking up unneeded legal bills on your part.

Is there ever a time to draw a hard line against police abuse and stand your ground? Absolutely, I'm just saying that this time isn't every time a cop wants to talk with you for any reason.
 
2012-01-15 12:05:53 AM  

Mavent: You can invoke your right to a speedy trial at any time. In most states, you can force a trial within six months, which hardly seems "speedy", but beats two years.


quite often, it is the defense dragging ass.
memories of witnesses fade. motions, more motions
you would think that the only reason that the prosecution delays is that their case is weak and they are hoping for a plea bargain.

6 months is a bit absurd. has that long of a delay been contested?
You could assume that the prosecution would be "ready" not long after charging you with a crime.

Certainly complex crimes would take longer, but possession or other minor crimes ...
bah
 
2012-01-15 12:06:52 AM  

steamingpile: RminusQ: And I still wonder about Republicans and conservatives who think torture, including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other atrocities are nothing to be worried about when our soldiers perform such acts, because of the intelligence and confessions gained from the victims.

If torture doesnt work in the first 15 minutes then it will never work, torture is mainly done because of sick individuals and any information gathered from that is usually false or irrelevant.


images4.fanpop.com
 
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