ZAZ: incendi

Lawyers may be able to turn breaking secure boot into an anti-circumvention violation, which means big companies can shut down any major competition.

I suspect the idiots and fascists at DHS and all the other TLAs that fark us over fully back UEFI.

Without UEFI, Al Qaeda can root our systems and put a TalibanLinux distribution on it.

With a secure Windows 8 platform, America can rest easy at night.

downstairs: Well, the reverse... you can run Windows virtually on a Mac, but no way you can run Mac OS on a PC.

Exactly why would you want to? It's like shoving a Mercedes engine into a Yugo body... what's the point?

so basically they are saying the same thing every other phone OS company already is saying.

annoying, but not unexpected

downstairs: Also, does this really matter? No one that buys an OEM machine with Windows 8 will ever want to run Linux or whatver.

Anyone that wants to run multiple OS'es most likely build their own machines.

MadSkillz: My understanding of this is that UEFIA (unsolicited extended finger in ...) means that they want to make the PC market more like the phone market, where stuff can only be installed that has been certified (read: sold by or licensed by) Microsoft?

That just won't work.

Pretty sure they're talking just about arm architecture not pc

Why are people surprised by this move by Microsoft? They're like a guy who promises not to cum in her mouth.

Green Scorpio: downstairs: Also, does this really matter? No one that buys an OEM machine with Windows 8 will ever want to run Linux or whatver.

Anyone that wants to run multiple OS'es most likely build their own machines.

MadSkillz: My understanding of this is that UEFIA (unsolicited extended finger in ...) means that they want to make the PC market more like the phone market, where stuff can only be installed that has been certified (read: sold by or licensed by) Microsoft?

That just won't work.

Pretty sure they're talking just about arm architecture not pc

Yeah I read that as only for tablets.

mauricecano: That and hopefully another government lawsuit against Microsoft.

Probably won't happen... they learned to bust loose with some campaign contributions from the last time.

1macgeek: downstairs: Well, the reverse... you can run Windows virtually on a Mac, but no way you can run Mac OS on a PC.

Exactly why would you want to? It's like shoving a Mercedes engine into a Yugo body... what's the point?

'WHY' doesn't matter, there will always be people that want to do it 'BECAUSE'. At any rate, it can be done (^) with Mac OS X Server (Leopard, Snow Leopard). So, you have that going for you, which is nice, I guess.

cman: ///Free market is already pushing Microsoft out the door

Then what's displacing Windows?

cman: ///Free market is already pushing Microsoft out the door

... what door?

Oh, oh... you're an Apple fanboi who thinks the computer world begins and ends with the home consumer! How quaint.

I believe what Microsoft actually said was something more like 'it will be up to the device makers if they want to use Secure Boot to lock out other operating systems' and then Ballmer screamed something about developers.

downstairs: Also, does this really matter? No one that buys an OEM machine with Windows 8 will ever want to run Linux or whatver.

Anyone that wants to run multiple OS'es most likely build their own machines.

THIS

I'm always cautious about Microsoft, really don't trust them and all that, but you really have to avoid going down the paths of the swivel-eyed tinfoil-hat wearing loons. You will waste hours discussing this rather than masturbating to porn Remember Palladium and the scare stories about that, how Microsoft was going to control your media with evil DRM? I probably missed out on a lot of Jenna Jameson movies ove that.

No-one is going to build their own home ARM device, and Microsoft aren't going to block other OSs on Windows, because developers and sysadmins in companies will just not upgrade. ARM is obviously about small, low-power devices, where you buy it as a sealed unit, while the Intel stuff is about custom builds.

namatad: Friskya: namatad: Friskya: namatad: good thing that none of the other phone companies do this!!!!!
oh wait.
apple

Not up on your two year old news, are you? (new window)

ROFL
not up on the fact that this only works on 3. not on 3gs or 4???
so LOLOLOLOLOLOL

You didn't specify a time frame or device generation, so I didn't presume that it was important to your comment. Work is continuing on later devices, though. (new window)

yawn
no one cares

people who want open, buy an open android.
people in the past who wanted open, jailbroke their iphones
people who are completely retarded will buy a windows phone
seriously, WHO is going to buy a windows phone???

1) iPhone
2) droid
3) crackberry
4) windows
5) other

people buy 1 or 2 based on their religion. I bought an iphone because droid wasnt out yet. when my phone dies, I will have to take a look at current droid vs iPhone, but being able to hack the phone is close to last on the list of what I will do with my phone. apps will be a non-issue, they pretty much do the same things about equally well.

crackberry are for crackers. they cant live without their rim. whatever.

4 and 5?
cost or crazy windows devotees?

What you may have looked like when typing this comment:



/seriously, the stupid burns so much I can't even reply to it with words.

MadSkillz: My understanding of this is that UEFIA (unsolicited extended finger in ...) means that they want to make the PC market more like the phone market, where stuff can only be installed that has been certified (read: sold by or licensed by) Microsoft?

That just won't work.

The way I'm reading MSFT's ARM strategy for Windows 8 is that they basically want to make it as locked down as possible. So no legacy support, no OtherOS, and all apps must go through the app store and meet with MSFT's UI demands.

/Which sucks because at that point, it's just a scaled-up version of Windows Phone, instead of a scaled-down version of Windows 8 x86, and that was kinda Microsoft's big promised difference over Apple/Android, the bit where you could run random desktop programs (assuming an ARM version) on your dinky little ARM quad-core tablet.

Gosh, you mean you won't be able to boot off another OS and hack into my computer if you steal it?

The HORROR!

/Don't buy Windows if you don't want to, let it GO.

I don't get the issue. You can't put other operating systems on iPads, no one complains, even though it has the vast majority of tablet sales today. The FOSS doesn't complain; instead, they make their own tablets... some with locked boot loaders. Now Microsoft locks down what is more or less sealed hardware anyways (ARM-based tablets) and OMG ANTICOMPETITIVE BEHAVIOR!!!11!1ELEVENTY

I mean, really, how many times have we heard this argument, only to see the FOSS OEMs do the exact same thing by locking boot loaders, which are, in turn, unlocked by hackers?

meyerkev: MadSkillz: My understanding of this is that UEFIA (unsolicited extended finger in ...) means that they want to make the PC market more like the phone market, where stuff can only be installed that has been certified (read: sold by or licensed by) Microsoft?

That just won't work.

The way I'm reading MSFT's ARM strategy for Windows 8 is that they basically want to make it as locked down as possible. So no legacy support, no OtherOS, and all apps must go through the app store and meet with MSFT's UI demands.

/Which sucks because at that point, it's just a scaled-up version of Windows Phone, instead of a scaled-down version of Windows 8 x86, and that was kinda Microsoft's big promised difference over Apple/Android, the bit where you could run random desktop programs (assuming an ARM version) on your dinky little ARM quad-core tablet.

I think a lot of it is informed by the push-back they're getting from phone companies. Hardware companies have a lot of leverage to push around Microsoft, witness Vista and the lowering of hardware requirements at the behest of Intel, et al. It was the concessions made to other companies, to the detriment of the paying customers that soured people on an otherwise excellent OS. What do phone companies want? There you go. I doubt Microsoft cares much for themselves. They've been extremely open with both the xbox (XNA game studio express, free to anyone) and kinect.

Marine1: I don't get the issue. You can't put other operating systems on iPads, no one complains, even though it has the vast majority of tablet sales today. The FOSS doesn't complain; instead, they make their own tablets... some with locked boot loaders. Now Microsoft locks down what is more or less sealed hardware anyways (ARM-based tablets) and OMG ANTICOMPETITIVE BEHAVIOR!!!11!1ELEVENTY

I mean, really, how many times have we heard this argument, only to see the FOSS OEMs do the exact same thing by locking boot loaders, which are, in turn, unlocked by hackers?

x86 processor power has far outstripped the actual consumer requirements outside of games and video editing. ARM has the potential to take enormous market share from x86 and locking out other operating systems is massively uncompetitive. Personally, I think that there is also a good chance that the market will abandon Microsoft completely. Either way it doesn't look good for Microsoft - they either distort the market with anticompetitve behavior or they lose market share.Too bad they don't actually innovate...

WP7 actually supports this. There is nothing wrong with it (I know you have it and love it), but the world pretty much confirmed that the last thing the consumer wants is more Microsoft. The obviously uncompetitive news today shows WHY consumers will flee MS if there is a valid option.

Tickle Mittens: meyerkev: MadSkillz: My understanding of this is that UEFIA (unsolicited extended finger in ...) means that they want to make the PC market more like the phone market, where stuff can only be installed that has been certified (read: sold by or licensed by) Microsoft?

That just won't work.

The way I'm reading MSFT's ARM strategy for Windows 8 is that they basically want to make it as locked down as possible. So no legacy support, no OtherOS, and all apps must go through the app store and meet with MSFT's UI demands.

/Which sucks because at that point, it's just a scaled-up version of Windows Phone, instead of a scaled-down version of Windows 8 x86, and that was kinda Microsoft's big promised difference over Apple/Android, the bit where you could run random desktop programs (assuming an ARM version) on your dinky little ARM quad-core tablet.

I think a lot of it is informed by the push-back they're getting from phone companies. Hardware companies have a lot of leverage to push around Microsoft, witness Vista and the lowering of hardware requirements at the behest of Intel, et al. It was the concessions made to other companies, to the detriment of the paying customers that soured people on an otherwise excellent OS. What do phone companies want? There you go. I doubt Microsoft cares much for themselves. They've been extremely open with both the xbox (XNA game studio express, free to anyone) and kinect.

They're being open where they need to be and closed where they need to be in order to get the customer a good product. Kinect and 360 are open on levels that make the hardware better, not worse. They learned from Vista, like you gave as an example. MS has finally figured out that like Apple, they coded their products, and know better than anyone else what it takes to run the damned stuff. I don't want carriers and OEMs adding a bunch of permanent crap to my Windows Phone or to any future Windows tablets they might sell. The stuff that's traditionally added to Android slows down the handsets and makes them crash. Android fans tout how great it is to have an OS which allows carriers and OEMs to do whatever they want with the handsets, then they wipe the carrier crap off the handsets either through custom ROMs or Google Experience devices because what the carriers were allowed to do with the handsets turned them into expensive paperweights. Hardware and service providers aren't to be trusted with software products. So while Microsoft doesn't care as much for its own fate as Apple does, they're starting to care more.

/tl;dr: I agree.
//however, there's a method to WHY MS does what it does

Who cares? This is about MS locking down ARM devices, not PC hardware. Apple already does this to their iOS and personal devices.

Much ado about nothing.

If you want to run Mac OS X on a whitebox PC you can. If you want to run Win 7 on an iMac you can. Just takes a little work and some tech skills.

ghare: Gosh, you mean you won't be able to boot off another OS and hack into my computer if you steal it?

The HORROR!

/Don't buy Windows if you don't want to, let it GO.

You know how I know you didn't RTFA?

namatad: people who are completely retarded will buy a windows phone
seriously, WHO is going to buy a windows phone???

I must be retarded then.
/Will get even more retarded when the Lumina 900 comes out
\So retared that I like not having to charge my phone every hour, don't have to root my phone to remove carrier bloat, don't have to have Avast and other AV programs on my phone, don't have to worry is a app will work on my 1st gen phone,and don't have to worry about Samsung, HTC,and Moto bullshiat skin built into my OS

madgonad: Too bad they don't actually innovate...


I have to disagree there. Microsoft has done a lot to innovate over the past few years, even months. Metro on WP7 is a completely new concept in how smartphones interact with the user. I'd argue the whole OS is innovative, as it's squarely between the hard lockdown (one OS, one hardware spec) of iOS and the anarchy of Android (many OSes, many hardware choices). Windows Phone is many hardware choices, one OS. I suspect we'll see the same thing happen again with Windows 8 on tablets. Many hardware choices, one Windows. Desktop doesn't have me impressed, though... I'm thinking Windows Server 8 might be my next desktop OS if Windows Explorer isn't an available UI for the standard consumer version. It also helps that I can get it for free as a student through Dreamspark.

Kinect has taken both the gaming world and hackers by storm... as a result, Xbox 360 outsold all other consoles in 2011 and got a major sales kick-in-the-pants going into its 7th year of production.

drjekel_mrhyde: namatad: people who are completely retarded will buy a windows phone
seriously, WHO is going to buy a windows phone???

I must be retarded then.
/Will get even more retarded when the Lumina 900 comes out
\So retared that I like not having to charge my phone every hour, don't have to root my phone to remove carrier bloat, don't have to have Avast and other AV programs on my phone, don't have to worry is a app will work on my 1st gen phone,and don't have to worry about Samsung, HTC,and Moto bullshiat skin built into my OS

Oops you're a Apple fanboi
/I thought you guys warmed up to WP unlike those Fandroids filled with droidrage^TM