Most Americans couldn't identify their own ass with both hands and a picture chart.

Now ask how many self identify as Republican. I wonder how much the 41% would change.

So 56% of Americans identify to the left of conservative. Is that not most?

Self-identification is determinative of reality, of course.

But if you throw out those meaningless labels and ask people about, ya know... actual issues, you'll find they lean left.

Here's just one example. (new window)

Here's another. (new window)

And another. (new window)

Fact: the words conservative, moderate and liberal have different meanings to different people.

Wendy's Chili: And another. (new window)

Facts have a liberal bias, what does your gut tell you?

EvilEgg: what does your gut tell you?

Eggs Benedict, hash browns, and a bagel with cream cheese.

But even if you still insist that one-word labels are the best way to determine the politics of the masses, "progressives" still win. (new window)

NewportBarGuy: EvilEgg: what does your gut tell you?

Eggs Benedict, hash browns, and a bagel with cream cheese.

Your gut likes too much fat and carbs.

EvilEgg: Your gut likes too much fat and carbs.

Why do you hate America's gut?

This means Sarah Palin is automatically president and Obama has to go peel potatoes.

sigdiamond2000: This means Sarah Palin is automatically president and Obama has to go peel potatoes.

At last Obama can count to potato

Rev.K: Fact: the words conservative, moderate and liberal have different meanings to different people.

Indeed. I generally self-identify as a moderate... although I recognize that effectively I'm anything but.

Ah, Townhall Republican butthurt and self-justification. It feels good.

most americans also identify themselves as "patriots" even though many of them do not vote straight-ticket republican. most americans are delusional liars.

Rev.K: Fact: the words conservative, moderate and liberal have different meanings to different people.

Fact: moderate and liberal mean the same thing to conservatives

Wendy's Chili: But even if you still insist that one-word labels are the best way to determine the politics of the masses, "progressives" still win. (new window)

I hate the term "progressive" so much. Yes, more poll respondents clearly favor making progress over not making progress*. Thanks for that observation, Ric.

* poll answering ideals may not reflect actual work ethic.

serial_crusher: Wendy's Chili: But even if you still insist that one-word labels are the best way to determine the politics of the masses, "progressives" still win. (new window)

I hate the term "progressive" so much. Yes, more poll respondents clearly favor making progress over not making progress*. Thanks for that observation, Ric.

* poll answering ideals may not reflect actual work ethic.

don't worry, the republicans are starting to get around to vilifying the word "progressive" now that "liberal" has been firmly cemented as a pejorative.

thomps: serial_crusher: Wendy's Chili: But even if you still insist that one-word labels are the best way to determine the politics of the masses, "progressives" still win. (new window)

I hate the term "progressive" so much. Yes, more poll respondents clearly favor making progress over not making progress*. Thanks for that observation, Ric.

* poll answering ideals may not reflect actual work ethic.

don't worry, the republicans are starting to get around to vilifying the word "progressive" now that "liberal" has been firmly cemented as a pejorative.

It was, but now people are beginning to think that if Republicans hate Liberals then Liberals can't be too bad.

thomps: don't worry, the republicans are starting to get around to vilifying the word "progressive" now that "liberal" has been firmly cemented as a pejorative.

Getting around to? I'd venture that progressive has been a dirty word LONGER than liberal.

Maybe, but the liberals are more strategically placed.

I used to self-identify as a conservative, but then they changed what conservative means. Now, what I'm with isn't conservative, and what's conservative seems weird and scary to me.

/True story, yo.

Jackson Herring: thomps: don't worry, the republicans are starting to get around to vilifying the word "progressive" now that "liberal" has been firmly cemented as a pejorative.

Getting around to? I'd venture that progressive has been a dirty word LONGER than liberal.

i dunno, it always felt like they were beating the "liberals" drum through the oughts and have started with the vitriolic "progressives" rants in the last 4 or 5 years. this might be from my own experience. it was only recently that my uncle would sigh "you're too progressive" instead of "you're too liberal" at holiday meals.

thomps: i dunno, it always felt like they were beating the "liberals" drum through the oughts and have started with the vitriolic "progressives" rants in the last 4 or 5 years. this might be from my own experience. it was only recently that my uncle would sigh "you're too progressive" instead of "you're too liberal" at holiday meals.

I'm thinking more like since WWII on as far as "progressive" goes.

Most people hate change. That is why the say they are conservative.

Unless they need the abortion. Or want to fark before marriage. Or smoke that weed. Or their kid is gay, because their kid are not like any other gay people.

Jackson Herring: thomps: i dunno, it always felt like they were beating the "liberals" drum through the oughts and have started with the vitriolic "progressives" rants in the last 4 or 5 years. this might be from my own experience. it was only recently that my uncle would sigh "you're too progressive" instead of "you're too liberal" at holiday meals.

I'm thinking more like since WWII on as far as "progressive" goes.

i thought they just called them commies back then.

If it wasn't for the Liberal Media, Sarah Palin would be President and Rush Limbaugh would be hosting the Oscars and "24" would still be on the air.

thomps: i thought they just called them commies back then.

I could have sworn I'd read a Joe McCarthy quote about progressives, but after a lazy google search I guess I'm just imagining things.

Jackson Herring: thomps: i thought they just called them commies back then.

I could have sworn I'd read a Joe McCarthy quote about progressives, but after a lazy google search I guess I'm just imagining things.

delusions of a drug-addled progressive mind, no doubt.

thomps: delusions of a drug-addled progressive mind, no doubt.

all these years of living in a single room, with three other individuals

Wendy's Chili: Here's another. (new window)

I'm going to (with all due credit to you for the link) quote from it a small wall o' text that pretty effortlessly decimates subby's semiliterate TownHall screed:

When asked for evidence, advocates of the idea that America is a conservative country will often cite the fact that polls show more people labeling themselves as "conservative" than "liberal." This is certainly true, as data from the NES show: [table omitted]

Yet there are a number of reasons to conclude that the data on self-labeling tells us relatively little about the actual ideological positioning of the public. First, as political scientists have understood for more than 40 years, most Americans simply don't think in ideological terms. To take one example, the National Election Studies has asked respondents in the past, "Would you say that either one of the parties is more conservative than the other at the national level?" The number answering "the Republicans" seldom exceeded 60 percent when the question was asked in the past; after a 12-year hiatus, the NES asked the question again in 2004, when two-thirds of the public, an all-time high, gave the correct answer. This means that, at a time when the parties are more ideologically distinct than ever, one-third of the public can't name correctly which party is more conservative. If this bare minimum of knowledge is unavailable to such a large proportion of the population, it is fair to say that their self-placement on ideological scales will not be a particularly reliable gauge of their actual beliefs on issues.

There is an understandable assumption within Washington that if survey respondents answer the ideological self-placement question by choosing "liberal" or "conservative," then their positions on issues roughly correlate with those of the Democratic and Republican parties, respectively; and that if they choose "moderate," then their issue positions are midway between those of the two parties. But in fact, this is not the case. According to the NES, 56 percent of those who call themselves moderates associate with the Democratic Party, while only 31 percent associate with the Republican Party. As one of the authors of this study wrote previously:

"And it isn't just party identification; on issue after issue, moderates have opinions almost exactly mirroring those of liberals. In the NES survey, 64 percent of liberals say we should increase spending on Social Security, as do 68 percent of moderates-while only 47 percent of conservatives agree. Eighty-eight percent of liberals and 84 percent of moderates say federal funding on education should be increased, compared to only 58 percent of conservatives. Seventy-three percent of liberals and 66 percent of moderates want more spending for child care-but only 38 percent of conservatives agree. Sixty-two percent of liberals and 57 percent of moderates want to spend more on aid to the poor, compared to only 39 percent of conservatives."53

Another reason people don't use the liberal label is that the term "liberal" has been victim to a relentless conservative marketing campaign that has succeeded in vilifying liberals and liberalism. The consequence is that only strong liberals are willing to identify as such. But many people who hold liberal issue positions call themselves moderates, or even conservatives. As Christopher Ellis wrote in a recent study of ideological labeling, "[M]any conservatives are not very conservative":

"... nearly three-quarters of self-identified conservatives are not conservative on at least one issue dimension [size and scope of government, or abortion and homosexuality], and considerably more than half hold liberal preferences on the dominant dimension of conflict over the size and scope of government. Simply put, many conservatives are not very conservative"54

When people do use ideological labels, they often apply them inconsistently. In 1967, Hadley Cantril and Lloyd Free famously observed that Americans were "ideological conservatives" but "operational liberals."55 They didn't like the idea of government, but they liked what government does and can do.

As all the data presented in this report make clear, whatever Americans choose to call themselves, on issue after issue -- economic, social, security, and more -- majorities of the public find themselves on the progressive side. And on many of the most contentious "culture war" issues, the public has been growing more progressive year after year. Much of the news media seems not to have noticed. But the facts are too clear to ignore.

Five more years of crazy (new window)

Jackson Herring: thomps: delusions of a drug-addled progressive mind, no doubt.

all these years of living in a single room, with three other individuals

god only knows what you're up to in there. i wouldn't be surprised if you habitually plotted the socialist takeover of america...communism.

thomps: god

"god"

heh.


heeehhhhhhh.

dahmers love zombie: "... nearly three-quarters of self-identified conservatives are not conservative on at least one issue dimension [size and scope of government, or abortion and homosexuality]

I really think you need to treat those as at least two separate categories (fiscal conservatives vs social conservatives), if not four independent variables.
Like, I want the government to spend less money, stay out of peoples' private business, and keep people from murdering their children.
But, I don't care where you put your dick, so clearly I'm not a true conservative.

I think that is a fair split. Americans are mostly Conservative. The GOP party has just swung to the right of Conservative and Democratic party has moved to the Centre.

Effectively, the Democratic party now represents the middle and the left (so about 60%).

Wendy's Chili: And another. (new window)

Well done.

Also, your handle is making me hungry.

What's needed to be said has been said. I'm just going to add an unnecessary bit reminding naysayers that "moderate" is an insult of the highest order in modern conservative parlance.

Meatzilla: [i157.photobucket.com image 640x600]

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Didn't you used to make sense? I mean, a little bit?

gilgigamesh: Meatzilla: [i157.photobucket.com image 640x600]

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Didn't you used to make sense? I mean, a little bit?

It is interesting. I think he meant to post that in another thread. The discussion thread on the "heavily weaponized train manufacturers labour dispute thread" maybe?