If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(MSNBC)   Chinese applications to U.S. colleges up 23%. Desperate American students quickly work on their ability to hit a 30 foot jump shot   (behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

701 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Jan 2012 at 11:03 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-01-13 11:05:07 AM
But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements.

One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays.


I know people around the country who have developed a very healthy skepticism of foreign applications specifically because of this. It's been going on for years and the increased demand will only make it worse.
 
2012-01-13 11:07:37 AM
Um, there's generally a cap on exchange and non-resident enrollment, I don't think US students have much to worry about there.

Well, if the jump-shot is your plan then you have something to worry about, but it's not related to foreign students.
 
2012-01-13 11:09:14 AM
Plus, you can exclude Asians from your school because they aren't really minorities.
 
2012-01-13 11:10:52 AM
California is the biggest destination for this, and state schools here welcome them because they pay out of state tuition. Meanwhile, many of the schools in the system won't admit me because of "impacted majors", which really means that they don't want me because I pay in-state tuition. I can go to Chico State, though, way out in BFE. Ah, my tax dollars at work.
 
2012-01-13 11:14:17 AM
Mentat
But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements.

One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays.


They cheat like crazy once they get here too. Most of the undergrads I busted for plagiarism were from China, and half of those didn't realise they'd done anything wrong (they were just copying the lab manual for their introduction).
 
2012-01-13 11:16:21 AM

bhcompy: California is the biggest destination for this, and state schools here welcome them because they pay out of state tuition. Meanwhile, many of the schools in the system won't admit me because of "impacted majors", which really means that they don't want me because I pay in-state tuition. I can go to Chico State, though, way out in BFE. Ah, my tax dollars at work.


Um, Chico is a state school. So the state schools admitted you. Problem solved, you can quit whining about being under-qualified for higher ed now.
 
2012-01-13 11:17:27 AM

Jim_Callahan: Um, Chico is a state school. So the state schools admitted you. Problem solved, you can quit whining about being under-qualified for higher ed now.


Do you know what "impacted major" means? It has nothing to do with "under-qualified".
 
2012-01-13 11:27:44 AM

Mentat: But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements.

One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays.

I know people around the country who have developed a very healthy skepticism of foreign applications specifically because of this. It's been going on for years and the increased demand will only make it worse.


Mizzou is certainly no exception. Chinese students everywhere. Good students and hard workers, but that is a cause for concern.
 
2012-01-13 11:35:03 AM

Mentat: But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements.

One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays.

I know people around the country who have developed a very healthy skepticism of foreign applications specifically because of this. It's been going on for years and the increased demand will only make it worse.


College essay farmers? It's more likely than you think.
 
2012-01-13 11:35:20 AM
This isn't news to me..

I work at a Canadian university where 70% of the students are Asian... It's been that way for a decade
 
2012-01-13 11:38:28 AM

legion_of_doo: Plus, you can exclude Asians from your school because they aren't really minorities.


It's funny how Asians are a minority group here in America but aren't included in any of the standard minority statistics such as education, income, and test scoring... I guess some groups don't want it known that there is a minority group here in the US that is actually thriving?
 
2012-01-13 12:00:38 PM

Mentat: se.


While working at "x" company in Toronto, a girl who worked for me was from China. Supposedly, she had a degree from Carlton university in Ottawa in CompSci. She was a complete fraud and a total idiot. Working in Unix, she couldn't tell you what ls -la, grep or a child/fork process was (basic sh*t) for starters. I had inherited her from the last manager of that department. I decided to fire her ass, when she suddenly switched departments to, surprise surprise, a department that was almost entirely populated by ethnic Chinese. Yep, she side stepped me firing her, but she continued to rip off the company. As did a lot of people who worked in that department. I left that company in '01, and have since moved on to bigger and better things. Meanwhile that company went tits up in '05. No surprise there. I wouldn't trust any ethnic Chinese who applied at company I worked for unless I could speak to someone who didn't have a thick Asian accent.

...1) I'm half Chinese (mothers side), and I don't trust the bastards at all.
..2) Canada has too damn many Chinese in Toronto.
.3) Most Chinese I've worked with are racist assholes. Don't kid yourself. They hate whites and blacks like you wouldn't believe.
 
2012-01-13 12:05:48 PM

Bondith: They cheat like crazy once they get here too. Most of the undergrads I busted for plagiarism were from China, and half of those didn't realise they'd done anything wrong (they were just copying the lab manual for their introduction).


I said this in the last Asian students thread, but here it goes again:

During my time in undergrad CS, I noticed a LOT of "cheating" going on by my asian classmates. They formed study groups for each class and used notes/assignments/tests/etc from previous semesters of the same course/professor. I have no idea how the course work was passed around from group to group, but I always felt like that crossed the line between studying and cheating.

I observed this going on in every single CS course I took. Tight-knit group of Asian students getting together to share materials.
 
2012-01-13 12:08:02 PM
As someone who has coached Chinese kids on how to apply to US universities, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...

You wouldn't believe how desperate some of them got in trying to 'subtly' suggest to me that I should just write their damn personal statements.

indarwinsshadow: .3) Most Chinese I've worked with are racist assholes. Don't kid yourself. They hate whites and blacks like you wouldn't believe.


You forgot Indians.

During the Olympics and the Asian games, they made South Asians and Africans return to their home countries to get visas while everyone else could just pop out to HK.
 
2012-01-13 12:10:32 PM
indarwinsshadow
While working at "x" company in Toronto, a girl who worked for me was from China. Supposedly, she had a degree from Carlton university in Ottawa in CompSci. She was a complete fraud and a total idiot.

Or possibly just a Carleton graduate.

...1) I'm half Chinese (mothers side), and I don't trust the bastards at all.

I've had two different Canadian-born Chinese tell me "You need to watch out for "those people". My CBC ex-girlfriend also refused to buy from Asian street vendors because she said they'd rip her off (but not me - apparently they don't screw over gwailos, just their own people).

.3) Most Chinese I've worked with are racist assholes. Don't kid yourself. They hate whites and blacks like you wouldn't believe.

Yeah. Ex-gf's mother (born in HK) told me the area I was living in when I first moved back to Ottawa wasn't a good neighbourhood because "That's where all the black people live." Didn't think calling me a Gwai-lo was racist because "That's just our word for you". Try turning that argument around and see how fair whitey gets.

That said, I've known a few Chinese post-docs about whom I have nothing bad to say. (Absence of anecdotes aren't quite as interesting as actual anecdotes.)
 
2012-01-13 12:15:25 PM
Honest Bender
I said this in the last Asian students thread, but here it goes again:

During my time in undergrad CS, I noticed a LOT of "cheating" going on by my asian classmates. They formed study groups for each class and used notes/assignments/tests/etc from previous semesters of the same course/professor. I have no idea how the course work was passed around from group to group, but I always felt like that crossed the line between studying and cheating.

I observed this going on in every single CS course I took. Tight-knit group of Asian students getting together to share materials.


I called it a CollaborAsian network. Whenever a new semester started, there was a scramble to get notes and quizzes off someone who'd taken the course the previous year. My ex swore she never never outright copied, but she was heavily influenced by the stack of someone else's labs she had.
 
2012-01-13 12:17:29 PM
Even in BFE, East Texas, there's a good amount of Chinese and Korean students attending community college, but what for, I couldn't say. Possibly in preparation for actual higher education, I would guess.
 
2012-01-13 12:18:41 PM

Bondith: Yeah. Ex-gf's mother (born in HK) told me the area I was living in when I first moved back to Ottawa wasn't a good neighbourhood because "That's where all the black people live."


My parents still do that. They moved to the US in the late 60s, have bare hints of an accent, and consider themselves pretty liberal.

They also looooooove rich jew jokes. Well, to be honest, doesn't everyone?
 
2012-01-13 12:20:15 PM
Heh, as a philosophy under-graduate and the graduate student I never had any Chinese (immigrant or otherwise) students in any of my classes.

I knew plenty when I 'worked' in finance, and it was hilarious to hear them mocking my Sikh boss in Chinese right in front of him at meetings. I think he noticed it too, but they were making him too much money bilking other immigrants out of their savings.

Mind you, that was the same workplace where my Pakistani co-worker tried to convince me that the jews ruled the world (after having a careful lookaround for our jewish co-worker...). Yay Toronto melting pot where people can come together and be prejudiced about others all at once.
 
2012-01-13 12:21:32 PM

Honest Bender: I said this in the last Asian students thread, but here it goes again:

During my time in undergrad CS, I noticed a LOT of "cheating" going on by my asian classmates. They formed study groups for each class and used notes/assignments/tests/etc from previous semesters of the same course/professor. I have no idea how the course work was passed around from group to group, but I always felt like that crossed the line between studying and cheating.

I observed this going on in every single CS course I took. Tight-knit group of Asian students getting together to share materials.


I can't say that I didn't organize and run the same amongst us non-Asian students. And why not? Every single professor assigned homework amounts as if he was the only one. Much of it was just busy-work, not hard, not helpful in understanding the subjects at hand, just farking time-consuming as fark. So damn right we bloody well shared and pooled.
 
2012-01-13 12:29:37 PM

Honest Bender: Bondith: They cheat like crazy once they get here too. Most of the undergrads I busted for plagiarism were from China, and half of those didn't realise they'd done anything wrong (they were just copying the lab manual for their introduction).

I said this in the last Asian students thread, but here it goes again:

During my time in undergrad CS, I noticed a LOT of "cheating" going on by my asian classmates. They formed study groups for each class and used notes/assignments/tests/etc from previous semesters of the same course/professor. I have no idea how the course work was passed around from group to group, but I always felt like that crossed the line between studying and cheating.

I observed this going on in every single CS course I took. Tight-knit group of Asian students getting together to share materials.


That did not bother me so much as the 1st year Chinese professor who failed me in a hardware course because he could not read English. I shiat you not, all four of us native English speakers failed and had the grades overturned, but only after I got a lawyer and threatened to sue the University.
 
2012-01-13 12:34:44 PM

Slaves2Darkness: That did not bother me so much as the 1st year Chinese professor who failed me in a hardware course because he could not read English. I shiat you not, all four of us native English speakers failed and had the grades overturned, but only after I got a lawyer and threatened to sue the University.


LOL, on the other hand, only the two of us non-native speakers passed the required English class with an A. The rest failed.
 
2012-01-13 12:42:58 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: They also looooooove rich jew jokes. Well, to be honest, doesn't everyone?


My Jewish family loves them.
I'm only technically 1/4 Jewish, which sucks. Not enough to get in on the conspiracy, but still enough to have to worry about the Nazis.
 
2012-01-13 12:44:11 PM

Slaves2Darkness: That did not bother me so much as the 1st year Chinese professor who failed me in a hardware course because he could not read English. I shiat you not, all four of us native English speakers failed and had the grades overturned, but only after I got a lawyer and threatened to sue the University.


Once upon a time in undergrad, I was cruising along, doing well in my classes. I was on track to get a B (about 88%) in a physics class. Semester ends, grades are posted, and I get.... incomplete? WTF?! I asked the appropriate faculty about it, department chairs, etc. Turns out only the professor can resolve an incomplete grade. Ok, no problem. I've still got all my graded assignments, etc. Except the professor juuuust went on sabbatical right after turning in grades. Wont be back for 6 months. And you have 30 days to take care of that incomplete or it becomes an F.

/To this day I have no idea why she gave me an incomplete.
 
2012-01-13 12:47:18 PM

bhcompy: Jim_Callahan: Um, Chico is a state school. So the state schools admitted you. Problem solved, you can quit whining about being under-qualified for higher ed now.

Do you know what "impacted major" means? It has nothing to do with "under-qualified".


It means they have too many applicants and not enough spots to accomodate them all. Therefore they raise the minimum standards until they have a new lower-bound cut-off that allows them to drop enough applicants.

So in other words, you're grades aren't good enough to get by their new lower bound cut-off.
 
2012-01-13 12:52:35 PM

entropic_existence: It means they have too many applicants and not enough spots to accomodate them all. Therefore they raise the minimum standards until they have a new lower-bound cut-off that allows them to drop enough applicants.

So in other words, you're grades aren't good enough to get by their new lower bound cut-off.


This wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't widely known that Chinese applicants doctor their qualifications, making the new cutoff based on bullshiat.
 
2012-01-13 12:53:40 PM

entropic_existence: bhcompy: Jim_Callahan: Um, Chico is a state school. So the state schools admitted you. Problem solved, you can quit whining about being under-qualified for higher ed now.

Do you know what "impacted major" means? It has nothing to do with "under-qualified".

It means they have too many applicants and not enough spots to accomodate them all. Therefore they raise the minimum standards until they have a new lower-bound cut-off that allows them to drop enough applicants.

So in other words, you're grades aren't good enough to get by their new lower bound cut-off.


If you think they pick on grades first you're mistaken. They give preference to those that pay the most, all things being equal. Heightened GPA for impacted majors only whittle out a small group(such as a 2.5 GPA minimum for Business majors at CSU, and a suggestion that you have at least a 3.0 to apply at any impacted school. Not a big deal.)
 
2012-01-13 01:05:22 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: This wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't widely known that Chinese applicants doctor their qualifications, making the new cutoff based on bullshiat.


There are usually a separate number of seats at most schools for in-state and out-of-state applicants. Often separate requirements as well.
 
2012-01-13 01:08:21 PM
For reference

Even colleges that shunned out-of-state students for years are showing a marked receptivity. The University of California's top campuses-Berkeley and UCLA-have doubled and even tripled their rosters of out-of-state kids. At UCLA, the total percentage of out-of-state kids is still relatively low: only about 7 percent of last year's entering class. But at Berkeley, it was a whopping 19 percent and will grow to 20 percent this year, according to Janet Gilmore, a university spokesperson. Five years ago, the percentage of out-of-state students at Berkeley was a mere 5 percent.

At most of these world-class universities, admission is still very selective. The acceptance rate for out-of-state students at UCLA was only 30 percent last year. But that was still better than what California residents experienced, which was a 21 percent acceptance rate. And it even got a tad easier for out-of-staters compared with previous years. Five years ago, out-of-staters applying to UCLA were admitted only 21 percent of the time, compared with their California counterparts, who saw a 23 percent admit rate.

At Berkeley, 39 percent of out-of-state applicants received the proverbial fat envelope, compared with only 24 percent of California applicants. And opposed to five years ago, when out-of-state kids saw a 22 percent acceptance rate at Berkeley-compared with in-staters' 25 percent-the trend is looking good for out-of-state applicants.

What's driving this statistically significant advantage? As is so often the case with the decisions made at colleges today, it's mainly about money.

As states continue to weather the financial crisis, they are trimming budgets. And expenditures to their prestigious state-run universities have taken a hit. Consequently, schools have consciously-and sometimes publicly-increased the number of out-of-state students, who traditionally pay higher tuition than in-state kids.


And another

Eligible California residents are also having to compete with out-of-state candidates as well. The amount of non-residents enrolled at Cal Poly has increased from 7 percent of the student population in Fall 2006, to the current 11 percent.

Fallis said the bottom line is that all of these changes occurred because of the budget cuts.

"You cannot look at this situation separate from the budget issues," Fallis said. "Impaction exists because the state does not provide the CSUs with enough funds to give all qualified students access."


Out of state admissions continue to grow in both systems, and since schools have capacities, that means that in-state residents, taxpayers or progeny of such, are left hanging
 
2012-01-13 01:08:59 PM

bhcompy: California is the biggest destination for this, and state schools here welcome them because they pay out of state tuition. Meanwhile, many of the schools in the system won't admit me because of "impacted majors", which really means that they don't want me because I pay in-state tuition. I can go to Chico State, though, way out in BFE. Ah, my tax dollars at work.


They'd reather give an illegal your spot. Aren't liberals great?
 
2012-01-13 01:56:22 PM

bhcompy: Out of state admissions continue to grow in both systems, and since schools have capacities, that means that in-state residents, taxpayers or progeny of such, are left hanging


Same as elsewhere.
Had a girlfriend way back when in pre-med. Straight A's, dean's list, volunteered at the college hospital. Didn't get into the medical program. We assumed it was because she was white and in-state.
/didn't work out between her staunch Catholicism and my Jew-who-loves-bacon
 
2012-01-13 02:27:41 PM

Mentat: But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements.

One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays.

I know people around the country who have developed a very healthy skepticism of foreign applications specifically because of this. It's been going on for years and the increased demand will only make it worse.


Yeah, even in grad school applicants, there's a lot of skepticism of things like Physics GRE scores from China.

There are only three practice tests the College Board has released because they reuse questions from the real ones year to year. But apparently there's agencies that pay people to run out of the exam with their copy of the test, or they'll pay a set of people to each memorize some assigned section of the test so that giant question banks can be compiled. Then they sell those on to later students to memorize.

All of which is retarded because the test can already be gamed pretty well just memorizing five formulae and knowing how to test limiting cases.

\And having worked in an optics lab with a dude who didn't know the first thing about how to correctly handle optics, I have a healthy skepticism of their CVs, too.
 
2012-01-13 02:47:28 PM

bhcompy: California is the biggest destination for this, and state schools here welcome them because they pay out of state tuition. Meanwhile, many of the schools in the system won't admit me because of "impacted majors", which really means that they don't want me because I pay in-state tuition. I can go to Chico State, though, way out in BFE. Ah, my tax dollars at work.


Unless you come into California illegally in which case you get in-state tuition fees. California is the only place I know of where illegal US residents receive more benefits than US citizens from any other state.
 
2012-01-13 04:08:49 PM
Just in case no one sees this, the Chinese are sending over saboteurs and spies on student visas.

EVERYBODY PANIC
 
2012-01-13 05:07:27 PM
Hey America, stop sucking at math so much, and start diverting farm subsidies to universities.
 
2012-01-13 05:11:30 PM

Infernal Wedgie: Hey America, stop sucking at math so much, and start diverting farm subsidies to universities.


Have you missed the thread?

The vast majority of Chinese students they let in wouldn't get a C if they actually studied and worked like the average American student.
 
2012-01-13 05:24:32 PM

Kar98: Honest Bender: I said this in the last Asian students thread, but here it goes again:

During my time in undergrad CS, I noticed a LOT of "cheating" going on by my asian classmates. They formed study groups for each class and used notes/assignments/tests/etc from previous semesters of the same course/professor. I have no idea how the course work was passed around from group to group, but I always felt like that crossed the line between studying and cheating.

I observed this going on in every single CS course I took. Tight-knit group of Asian students getting together to share materials.

I can't say that I didn't organize and run the same amongst us non-Asian students. And why not? Every single professor assigned homework amounts as if he was the only one. Much of it was just busy-work, not hard, not helpful in understanding the subjects at hand, just farking time-consuming as fark. So damn right we bloody well shared and pooled.


Well, the different between what Kar98 and Honest Blender are saying here is language. Some students share their work, research materials, and all ... but others just straight copy essays and papers because some ESL uni students think it's okay to blow off the "doing it in English" bit.

When I moved to the USA, other students from Japan felt like "I know this materials, and I get what the teacher is saying, I just don't want to waste the time writing it all out in proper English and stuff." By graduation the difference was really clear though (between people who had spent school writing and articulating in another language, and those who still claimed to "get it" but still write like junior highschoolers).


Also materials pass from group to group because it's a TINY WORLD when you're studying abroad. It's difficult to not meet everyone from your home country. Upperclassmen/grads suggested certain professors based on how strict they were with grammar/spelling... and offer their old notes, papers even though I never asked.

/anecdotal, etc. etc.
 
2012-01-13 05:32:56 PM

bhcompy: Jim_Callahan: Um, Chico is a state school. So the state schools admitted you. Problem solved, you can quit whining about being under-qualified for higher ed now.

Do you know what "impacted major" means? It has nothing to do with "under-qualified".


If it's anything like an "impacted molar" it really, really hurts.
 
2012-01-13 05:45:10 PM

exactly three days: Well, the different between what Kar98 and Honest Blender are saying here is language. Some students share their work, research materials, and all ... but others just straight copy essays and papers because some ESL uni students think it's okay to blow off the "doing it in English" bit.


Well, there were quite a few non-Americans in my classes, but none of us did ESL. We just took our classes right along the Americans, and by we, I mean, me, German, and people from Brazil, Poland, various African places, and a chick from Nepal. Every bit of homework, we did in English and didn't think twice about it.
 
2012-01-13 11:39:59 PM
I went the a UC that had a majority Hispanic student body.

They do exist believe it or not.
 
2012-01-14 03:51:50 AM

Britney Spear's Speculum: I went the a UC that had a majority Hispanic student body.

They do exist believe it or not.


Hispanics in America? In California of all places?
 
2012-01-14 10:23:29 AM

indarwinsshadow: Mentat: se.

While working at "x" company in Toronto, a girl who worked for me was from China. Supposedly, she had a degree from Carlton university in Ottawa in CompSci. She was a complete fraud and a total idiot. Working in Unix, she couldn't tell you what ls -la, grep or a child/fork process was (basic sh*t) for starters. I had inherited her from the last manager of that department. I decided to fire her ass, when she suddenly switched departments to, surprise surprise, a department that was almost entirely populated by ethnic Chinese. Yep, she side stepped me firing her, but she continued to rip off the company. As did a lot of people who worked in that department. I left that company in '01, and have since moved on to bigger and better things. Meanwhile that company went tits up in '05. No surprise there. I wouldn't trust any ethnic Chinese who applied at company I worked for unless I could speak to someone who didn't have a thick Asian accent.

...1) I'm half Chinese (mothers side), and I don't trust the bastards at all.
..2) Canada has too damn many Chinese in Toronto.
.3) Most Chinese I've worked with are racist assholes. Don't kid yourself. They hate whites and blacks like you wouldn't believe.


THIS^
 
2012-01-14 02:44:58 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Britney Spear's Speculum: I went the a UC that had a majority Hispanic student body.

They do exist believe it or not.

Hispanics in America? In California of all places?


US Colleges that aren't a majority white or asian I mean.
 
Displayed 43 of 43 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report