Theocracy. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

ArkAngel: Amos Quito: I, for one, am sure glad that the US strongly supports "the only free and democratic State in the Middle East."

God bless 'em.

As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East

if you're an Israeli.

Israel's like that guy who got abused as a kid and grows up to be homicidal sociopath.

It's like they're actively trying to become 1939 Germany now.

muck4doo: Uh, I did what? I haven't stolen anybody's land. I have no intention of ever stealing somebody else's land. I don't want to be run out of my home, and I don't want anybody else being run out of theirs. There is no hypocrisy in that. No "anti-semitism" either.

Hope you are back in Europe.

First of all, yes I am. Second, even if I was a white guy living in the US, I still wouldn't have stolen anybody's land, because that was something that happened before I was born. The thing about present-day israelis is that they are committing the same crimes as their grandparents.

GAT_00: It's like they're actively trying to become 1939 Germany now.

They are becoming the thing they hate most. I guess it is a common human failing, but damn.

This is what happens when you mix religion and government.

Tatsuma: I am saying that there is a HUGE difference between going on a bus and blowing yourself up in the middle of civilians, and going into a bombing that is used by the military, setting up bombs with timers and giving them like an hour to evacuate.

Did mossad give that iranian scientist an hour to evacuate?

When it comes to terrorism, israelis should stfu.

Phil Moskowitz,Louis Theroux: The Ultra Zionists
You'll never look at that country the same way again.
I watched this other video where they were out at a checkpoint, this IDF soldier actually called the palestinians cockroaches. Right out of the Rwandan hate textbook.
Israel is an example of how you can turn any culture, no matter how advanced and educated, into vile savages. It's just getting worse now too, picking up speed going downhill. They're going after their own women. Israel should be a farking beacon, like Scandinavia, instead its a demoralizing truth rubbed right in your face.

I never considered myself anti-Israeli. Now between some fundie Jewish sects gaining ground and other bad PR, I don't know anymore. Negative perceptions are going to bleed over into the Jewish religion if this is not put in check by the moderate majority of the followers.

/If Israel is going to be another fundie state in the middle-east, let them do it without US assistance.

tlchwi02: Monkeyhouse Zendo: I'm starting to think that Tats is a Palestinian plant. He makes some good points and knows the issues but his unrelenting tunnel vision and rabid nationalism really works against winning hearts and minds.

i think he's endemic to a larger issue isreal in general is having. They are so terrified of all these "threats"- real, imagined or overstated as they might be- that they are willing to take these sorts of extreme actions. At the same time, this paranoia that develops makes them unable to step back and look at how their actions are effecting their real long term survival.

As long as the US backs them, they are ultimately safe. They wont be "driven into the sea" if we support them. But by enacting all these jim crowesque laws and refusing to play ball with the international community, they slowly but surely undermine that relationship and drive the US away. Inertia and money are keeping the alliance alive at the highest levels, but they have already turned a corner on the rank and file voter in america (and increasingly with the average jewish-american on the street.) Once you lose the support of the electorate, its only a matter of time until politicians start using populist sentimate. Look at how well ron paul is doing with voters with an explicit "to heck with isreal" line? And look at the demographics of those voters....


And they call Ron Paul a "racist" thanks to those old newsletters.

How many American politicians have pledged their fealty to the racist apartheid Israeli regime?







Maybe it's time that we call them on their hypocrisy?

Tatsuma: Tell me the last thing THEY did to pave the way toward reconciliation and peace.

How does one pave the way towards reconciliation and peace with somebody who breaks into your house, confines you to one room in the attic, and won't even let you use your own bathroom?

Tatsuma: Considering a fringe minority who will write graffiti on buildings, or set the occasional empty disused mosques on fire, versus shooting and killing innocents and blowing themselves up in buses, I'd say my fringe is not so bad.

What Tatsuma's fringe minority may look like:

Cubansaltyballs: Remember, these are the same ones that just did an ad campaign telling their citizens not to marry non-Jewish Americans.... since we are pretty much the mongrel scum of the earth. But it doesn't stop them from cashing our check or using our military equipment.


A million times this! I'm still furious about the way that Israel lied to me (and every other Jewish kid growing up in America during the '50s and '60s) about how we were donating 'trees' to Israel. Yeah, trees. All of Israel should like a farking rain forest by now. All out 'tree money' went to armaments.

It was just easier for the Israelis to lie to us.

moops: Actual Farking: Also ironic is that Jewish resistance groups responded with terrorism.

Even more ironic that the heads of those Jewish terrorist groups became Prime Ministers of Israel.




The King David Hotel bombing was THE single deadliest terrorist attack ever committed in Palestine-cum-Israel.

Maybe they should ban Jews?

Tatsuma: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's only terrorism when they do it.

When groups of Jews start blowing themselves off in buses or killing civilians intentionally, I'll call it terrorism as well.


The King David Hotel bombing (new window) was an attack carried out by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization Irgun on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946. 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.

I'm so happy that my country has hitched its wagon to the Star of David and that we will be remembered as a nation who sided with genocidal racial supremacists.

Wendy's Chili: Tatsuma: The responsibility for the existence of this conflict rests on their shoulders, and theirs only.

Yeah, if only they'd just accept two-going-on-three generations of subjugation and oppression, nobody would get hurt.


The truth is that Palestinians really don't mind being subjugated, oppressed, impoverished, starved, shoved into ghettos and white-phosphorized. In fact, they actually love it.

The only reason they make any fuss at all is because they hate Jews.

It's true!

Tatsuma: And when they petitioned that largest diplomatic body in the world, it was for a unilateral move, and calling to return to the British Mandate boundaries

You mean the ones Israel has agreed to in the past in peace deals that you never upheld?

Remember, folks: We need to attack Iran because it is a bigoted, backward theocratic State controlled by a bunch of religio-fundie whack-jobs.

G-d forbid such a state should ever get their hands on nuclear weapons.

Oh hey.

It's this dumb f*cking thread again.

kbronsito: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: GAT_00: It's like they're actively trying to become 1939 Germany now.

They do try and annex a lot of lebensraum now and then.

Maybe they don't even realize it. It's like they are the adopted children of an abusive alcoholic parent and are now falling into that same pattern

And they've got a rich, powerful uncle named Sam to save their butts all the time.

ArkAngel: Amos Quito: I, for one, am sure glad that the US strongly supports "the only free and democratic State in the Middle East."

God bless 'em.

As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East




Notice how "the lesser" is on top?

I, for one, am sure glad that the US strongly supports "the only free and democratic State in the Middle East."

God bless 'em.

Uncle Tractor: Israel was never a great country. It was a planned ethnic cleansing from the very beginning;


"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl, 1895

Fake, fabricated out-of-context quote is fake and fabricated.
This is taken from an Op-Ed published on April 15, 1998 by the Raleigh News and Observer by anti-Israel activist Mazin Qumsiyeh.

The paraphrase leading up to the quote is pure fabrication. Herzl's diary entry makes no mention of either Arabs or Palestine, and for good reason. A careful reading of Herzl's diary entries for June 1895 reveals that, at the time, he did not consider Palestine to be the future site of Jewish resettlement but rather South America.

Furthermore, by omitting key parts of Herzl's diary entry, Qumsiyeh also misrepresents the meaning of Herzl's comment. Herzl wrote of finding employment for the locals in other countries; of buying their property-only from those willing to sell and for more than the owners would have expected-and then keeping the properties for Jews; and of respectfully tolerating and protecting those of other faiths.

Let's look at the actual real quote without Qumsiyeh's fabrications and editing :

When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of immovable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back.

It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire old world a wonderful example. ...

Estate owners who are attached to their soil ... will be offered a complete transplantation-to any place they wish, like our own people. ...If this offer is not accepted either, no harm will be done. ... we shall simply leave them there ....

Uncle Tractor: TappingTheVein: I'm calling someone an anti-semite when i have proof they are anti-semites, naturally.

What proof is this? I don't need names (banning etc), just examples of what you think justifies calling somebody an anti-semite.


"Anti-Semites are people that Jews don't like."

- - Joseph Sobran

I only see two ways to settle the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without an effective genocide of one side.... either two independent viable states or merging into one state.

Both solutions will not be good for a dominate Jewish religious Israeli state, therefore the violence will continue in the area.

/correct me if I'm wrong.

Uncle Tractor: Because ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. That's why. A population can increase even though the amount of land available to them is decreasing.

The "them" in this case is who exactly?

Uncle Tractor: Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian arabs are the arabs that lived in what used to be called Palestine. Alternately, one could say the palestinians are the people who've spent the past sixty years under the israeli boot

Yes they are. Palestenian isn't. This law isn't for arabs it is for Palestenians. So it isn't ethnic discrimination.

60 years really? How, exactly, were they under Israeli boot prior to 67? I will assume you were ignorant of who controlled them during that time, next time you spout off that nonsense I will chalk it up to another one of your lies.

Amos Quito: Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?

Yes, I learend that you will continue to make accusations about an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI, caused the holocaust in WWII and made other countries unwilling to take in jews after the holocaust but will refuse to answetr any direct questions.

TappingTheVein: Uncle Tractor: BTW: Why am I a liar?

Because you claimed that i 'screamed anti-semites at everybody' which i, as i clearly explained, didn't. Or was it your evil twin brother posting ?

TappingTheVein: Nice to see a trollific headline bringing out the usual Fark's Antisemite brigade(TM) in droves.

No, it's not absolutely everybody, but it's everybody who dares criticize Israel, and that's close enough.

TappingTheVein: Nope, i didn't. I said that a trollific headline like this brings out the antisemite brigade in droves. They know who they are since i proved they are anti-semites in the past. I never said everybody or you for that matter however i can say now that you are a liar.

Right, right.

So who's in this "anti-semite brigade?" Care to name a few of it's members? According to you, they've come in droves, so it should be easy to point out a "drove" of examples.

BTW: Why am I a liar?

Amos Quito: Native Palestinians complain about European interlopers doing the same thing to them

Many of them are not natives, that's why the Arab states created a new definition for a refugee ('for a minimum of two years') just for the palestinian arabs.

And let's ignore that 50% of jews in Israel are not European in origin or that there were native jews as well, facts like these tend to ruin your bullshiat rhetoric.

TappingTheVein: Oh look, someone else who doesn't know what the fark this law is about.

Maybe not, but I know what *you* are about.

muck4doo: 2wolves: muck4doo: /Hope the kegger party went well

I like the way you alter my words without acknowledging your perfidy.

Is that a Texas thing or just you?

It's you being a douche that thinks your new rules apply to everyone else but not you and the land you stoled.

Uncle Tractor: muck4doo: It's not sympathizing with the zionist as so much as laughing at the nice comfortable lefties and right wing nuts hating the Jews for doing the same thing they did while typing from their nice comfortable homes on stolen land. A bunch of hypocrites you are, but of course, that was long ago, so it doesn't count anymore or something. Really, you are douches. Give up your land and homes if you really belive the crap you are spewing. Oh, you won't? Then shut the fark up.

Uh, I did what? I haven't stolen anybody's land. I have no intention of ever stealing somebody else's land. I don't want to be run out of my home, and I don't want anybody else being run out of theirs. There is no hypocrisy in that. No "anti-semitism" either.

Hope you are back in Europe.


Not following your rationalization here, muck4doo.

On the one hand you're crying because the European interlopers have oppressed, subjugated, marginalized and stolen land from Native Americans, and on the other hand, you're biatching when the Native Palestinians complain about European interlopers doing the same thing to them.

TappingTheVein: Nice to see a trollific headline bringing out the usual Fark's Antisemite brigade(TM) in droves.

Oh, look, another proponent of ethnic cleansing and state racism.

muck4doo: We get it. No homeland for them.



You're being dishonest again.

It's not about denying jews a homeland. Jews can have any homeland they want, as long as they don't take somebody else's land. Most minorities in the world do not have their own homelands, and they never will. Deal with it.

As for Israel, it's a problem that will solve itself. The single-state solution is going to happen and that will be the end of that particular bit of nonsense.

Let them keep wandering. Toss them down the well when convenient. They probably had it coming to them anyways. Any means of preserving themselves must be an affront to you and your community. A final solution is needed.

Ah yes, toss in an oblique godwin while you're at it. You're only highlighting your own dishonesty.

/You know why this shiat pisses me off?
//Mostly Native American, Mexica.

If you're mostly native american, how the hell can you sympathize with the zionists?

2wolves: muck4doo: /You know why this shiat pisses me off?
//Mostly Native American, Mexica.

So you're ok with enforcing the standing treaties the the U.S. has made with the sovereign native Americans?

That is rather sane for you.

Give up your home, or shut the fark up. Of course you won't do that. No, you don't get a casino.

Uncle Tractor: Zionism is a toxic ideology and Israel is a racist shiathole. That's what this is about. Nothing else.

We get it. No homeland for them. Let them keep wandering. Toss them down the well when convenient. They probably had it coming to them anyways. Any means of preserving themselves must be an affront to you and your community. A final solution is needed.

/You know why this shiat pisses me off?
//Mostly Native American, Mexica.
///I see another people that the enlightened think they should get rid of.

muck4doo: He does it because there are a lot of Anti-semites here. Most of them try to hide their hate by saying they are "anti-zionists", but they only fool themselves and their tool buddies on Fark spewing the same crap.



Zionism is a toxic ideology and Israel is a racist shiathole. That's what this is about. Nothing else.

The "anti-semite" argument has been played out. It's worthless. Only dishonest or profoundly ignorant / deluded people still use the "anti-semite" argument.

The good Jew is the one who thinks they shouldn't have a homeland for themselves. They have oppressed the Muslim world by having that sliver of land for themselves.

[www.masada2000.org image 640x319]

Help! We're being oppressed!

So, because the muslim world is so large, it's ok to help yourself to a piece, right? By the same logic, does that mean that (for example) expat chinese can help themselves to a sliver of the US? I mean, the US has so much land, after all ...

Mrtraveler01: Israel really does have potential to be a shining example of a functioning democracy in the middle east.

Yes, but they'd have to give up that "Jewish State" nonsense to realize that potential.

bidness: Uncle Tractor:
[i560.photobucket.com image 640x426]


Images are fun, aren't they?

[i96.photobucket.com image 640x414]

Let's see ... my image is about Israel taking more and more Palestinian land while at the same time whining about "anti-semitism," while your image says that it's ok for israel to take land from arab / muslim (brown people?) because they have so much of it.

Tatsuma: Raoul_Ramirez: When a terrorist organization did this in 1946 in Israel

That "terrorist organization" was targeting the military command post of the British in the area, they also called twice to tell them to get out but they refused

That has nothing to do with blowing yourself up in a bus.

I always say that I would not consider Hamas terrorists but guerrillas if they limited their attacks to soldiers and not civilians

Sorry, I was unaware of the special rule that makes blowing people up somehow acceptable (and not terrorism at all) if you call them first and tell them you're going to do so.

Stating "I am going to fark you up" and then proceeding to do so is one less degree of dickishness on a scale from one to a million. The act of committing a violent terrorist act is difficult to defend, but it can be analyzed so that we can understand it more. This will hopefully make a future where people don't feel like doing that kind of thing to each other quite so much, whether or not they give each other warning, or target only troops.

As a bonus sidenote, FTFWikipedia, in regards to the King David hotel bombing, which was preceded by a smaller bomb detonation nearby:
"this explosion resulted in a higher death toll because it caused spectators from the hotel to gather in its south-west corner, directly over the bomb planted in its basement, and it also caused the presence there of injured Arabs who were brought into the Secretariat after their bus, which was passing, was rolled onto its side"

Good thing these freedom bombers didn't target any buses. They just didn't give a flying fark if there were any going by when they set off a bomb. Again, this somehow makes it totally different from terrorism.

muck4doo
He does it because there are a lot of Anti-semites here.

You are really dumb. For real.

JesusJuice: Even with Israel's frantic efforts to preserve it's "ethnic purity"(where have I heard that term before?), they're doomed to obsolescence. They can't match the population growth of their neighbors or even the arab minority in their own country. In a couple generations they'll be dead and gone. Good riddance.

*sniff* *sniff* I smell a troll somewhere's around here...

Wendy's Chili: Wendy's Chili: Tatsuma: to allow them to have Israeli citizenship and perform terrorist acts in Israel.

Does the ban bar them from being citizens or bar them from entering the country? Because I don't think you need to be a citizen somewhere to blow it up.

I'd really like an answer to this Tatsuma.

He stopped answering. I wonder if today was finally the day where all that twisted reasoning he does finally caused him to have an aneurism.

Enemabag Jones: I saw this amazing video on youtube, I didn't want to believe it was real. There was one [presumed] Palestinian Arab neighbor that probably refused to sell in a neighborhood was that asorbed by Israeli settlers. The house had to be covered in some sort of chickenwire because kids were constantly throwing stones at the house. A Jewish woman walked up to the Arab woman and tried to incite her by calling her a whore mutltiple times to her face. This is while a camera is running. Soldiers were posted around the house to only make sure they were not attacked or firebombed, ect. I wanted to believe it was fake, but didn't see any marks of that. It was possible the settlers were some sort of neo-orthdox, but can't read the tea-leaves that well.

Louis Theroux: The Ultra Zionists

You'll never look at that country the same way again.

I watched this other video where they were out at a checkpoint, this IDF soldier actually called the palestinians cockroaches. Right out of the Rwandan hate textbook.
Israel is an example of how you can turn any culture, no matter how advanced and educated, into vile savages. It's just getting worse now too, picking up speed going downhill. They're going after their own women. Israel should be a farking beacon, like Scandinavia, instead its a demoralizing truth rubbed right in your face.

cameroncrazy1984: thamike: Amos Quito: How many American politicians have pledged their fealty to the racist apartheid Israeli regime?

Obama?

Hasn't Obama been roundly criticized for criticizing Israel's policies?


While Obama has been kissing Israeli ass, they have expressed their displeasure at his lack of deep-tongue action - such as his failure to pardon Jonathan Pollard, daring to voice his displeasure with settlement construction, being too slow in nuking Iran, etc.

Hell, they've even threatened to hold back support.

But Obey is coming around - as evidenced by the fact that he did give them 55 bunker-buster bombs, and we are imposing unwarranted sanctions on Iran.

Still, my guess is that the Friends of AIPAC money (and media support) will go to Romney.

Religion, is there anything it can't fark up?

muck4doo: If an American was to go to Gaza and marry a Palestinian, would the Palestinian then be considered a U.S. citizen? I'm curious about that.

The Palestinian could at least apply for US citizenship and go through the process. They could never do that in Israel.

Tatsuma: Tell me the last thing THEY did to pave the way toward reconciliation and peace.

I'm left of Kucinich so my opinion might not matter much. I do believe that Israel has a right to exist. It has at least as much right as any other nation in the Mideast. Every single country there was created by allied powers either after WW1 or WW2. Israel's problem is basically the same as USA's problem; the natives got kicked the fark out and strangers took their land. Frankly I'm not going to walk off my property so somebody else can take it. USA will force Israel to exist at least long enough to be historically local.

Palestinians do in fact require a solution. And let's not kid around, USA uses Israel politically (and vice versa). The Muslim mideast nations use the Palestinians politically for exactly the opposite reason. The sad part is that they cockblock the Palestinians even more than anyone in USA or Israel. They whine and moan about the Palestinians, but then they do everything in their power to ensure the Palestinians remain stateless and powerless.

I'm not sure what hurts worse: the fact that the locals will always hate each other or the fact that everyone else in the world intentionally prevents them from settling the score on amicable terms.

Amos Quito: How many American politicians have pledged their fealty to the racist apartheid Israeli regime?

I think Isreal takes this sort of thing for granted at their own peril. It seems as though support for isreal in the government is a sure thing, but i think the success of ron paul's message on foreign policy in general (and isreal specifically) is gaining traction in a far wider section of the population than is widely aknowledged by the political class. Paul may not be the guy to do anything about it due to other baggage, but if people think that Isreal is going to regain the support of the american voter (and especially younger voters with a different world view on isreal then their grandparents) by passing laws that remind us of jim crow and aparthied, they are dangerously mistaken. If they think they can handle the region without support, then i suppose thats their business.

Amos Quito: And they call Ron Paul a "racist" thanks to those old newsletters

He admitted he wrote them in the 90s. It was only a few years ago that he said he didn't. Plus, they have his name on them. He's either a racist, or forgetful, or a bad manager. Take your pick, they're all bad.

CitizenTed: I hope you meant the "Balkans" because driving from Dalmatia to the Baltics would be an 800 mile ramble in the wrong direction.

haha, you are correct. I've heard the baltic can be nice too, but the plan is indeed the balkans. typo on my part.

i have some family friends in Split who have offered a bed if ever i should be there, which increases my temptation to try a drive (or train, or whatever is most viable) since i could start with a visit with them and that would be a decent start point

Religious nutballs are all the same.

Different book. Same crazy.

You know the ruling sucks when not even an apologist like Tats can defend it but instead goes off on another tangent to change the subject.

tlchwi02: My dream trip is to travel down the coast of crotia and the baltics (visiting the largely intact roman cities and ruins throughout that region) and cap it off by ending up spending 5 days or so exploring Instanbul itself.

I hope you meant the "Balkans" because driving from Dalmatia to the Baltics would be an 800 mile ramble in the wrong direction.

But I hear ya. I've been to Croatia twice and love it. I'd like to go south across Montenegro (please!) and Albania, then into Greece and make my way east to Istanbul. As it stands, I'm probably just going to fly to Istanbul like everybody else.

Late to the party, but Tats said something worth expanding on a bit:

"When groups of Jews start blowing themselves off in buses or killing civilians intentionally, I'll call it terrorism as well."

As has been stated upthread, the King David hotel bombing demonstrated to the world how effectively a terrorist group can influence public policy. When symmetric warfare is impossible, people can and will use asymmetric warfare to great effect.

When a terrorist organization did this in 1946 in Israel, they opened Pandora's box with explosives. Now today they are lamenting the fact that so many people are using similar tactics in order to try to further their own goals, to their own detriment.

I hope that Israel and Palestine's great-grandchildren can one day forgive each other, unfortunately I don't see it happening anytime sooner than that.

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I'm starting to think that Tats is a Palestinian plant. He makes some good points and knows the issues but his unrelenting tunnel vision and rabid nationalism really works against winning hearts and minds.

No, the hard-wingers in Israel are really that stupid and unreasonable.

Don't forget, some of them beat up a 7-year old girl and called her a whore just for walking to school.

Luckily, the majority of Israelis aren't that dickish.

A Dark Evil Omen: Philip Francis Queeg: bidness: Philip Francis Queeg: bidness
[i96.photobucket.com image 640x414]

Iran is an Arab country?

Golly gee, you're so smart! I never heard of such! I thought all them brown people were the same and whatnot!

Sigh. Fark shrunk the image, but there is some text in there to the effect of "*Iran is not Arab, but it is a Muslim theocracy in the region that sponsors anti-Israeli terrorism." See that asterisk by the name?

Well, then why not include the US in the map since we support Israel?

Yeah, given how they've grouped the "anti-Israeli" countries, it should also have the US, Canada and large segments of western Europe painted pro-Israel.

Yes but it would've made the pro-Israel propaganda look silly.

And by Pro-Israel, I mean the pro-Likud and pro-right wingers of Israel.

The center and left-wing of Israel is a tad more reasonable.

I'm starting to think that Tats is a Palestinian plant. He makes some good points and knows the issues but his unrelenting tunnel vision and rabid nationalism really works against winning hearts and minds.

Mrtraveler01: Israel does seem like a beautiful country...as long as you're a Jew.

Never thought about Istanbul though, although it does seem like a nice city.

its a gorgeous city architecturally and artistically, considering all the empires that have had their seats there. For the same reason, it has a ton of history (and roman history is something of a passion of mine.) It also stands at the cross roads of europe and asia (and has for centuries.) Because of that it has amazing culture and food.

My dream trip is to travel down the coast of crotia and the baltics (visiting the largely intact roman cities and ruins throughout that region) and cap it off by ending up spending 5 days or so exploring Instanbul itself.

miko_toy: Balfour Declaration November 2nd 1917:

Snippet:

"... it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine ... "

So proudly displayed on the Knesset's, & Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs' website. Also found on several prominent Israeli sites that routinely ignore the above. Absolutely adorable.

I'm sure resident Israeli supporters will somehow twist this into their favour.

/patiently awaiting the derp

Israel really does have potential to be a shining example of a functioning democracy in the middle east.

And yet they keep finding ways to fark that up.

WhyteRaven74: Philip Francis Queeg: Iran is an Arab country?

Ditto the North African countries.

It's from a pro-Israel website so obviously they had to spin it.

That said, I recognize that Israel doesn't have friendly neighbors. Doesn't mean Israel has a right to be a dick to them when the neighbors aren't doing anything at the current time.

Balfour Declaration November 2nd 1917:

Snippet:

"... it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine ... "

So proudly displayed on the Knesset's, & Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs' website. Also found on several prominent Israeli sites that routinely ignore the above. Absolutely adorable.

I'm sure resident Israeli supporters will somehow twist this into their favour.

/patiently awaiting the derp

bidness: Uncle Tractor:
[i560.photobucket.com image 640x426]


Images are fun, aren't they?

[i96.photobucket.com image 640x414]

So that makes it ok to treat Palestinians like second-class citizens?

Karac: yert: Karac: Tatsuma: How is that about racial purity if it's about ANY Israeli, whether Arab, Jewish, or anything else?

Maybe because it appears that if an American marries an Israeli, the American gets Israeli citizenship. Same for Germans, the French, Djiboutians, Martian manhunters, kryptonians, and Wookies.

But if the spouse happens to be Palistianian, then the rules change. This shiat is no better than the anti-miscongeniation laws that we got rid of in the US decades ago. Hell, we got rid of them so long ago, I'm pretty sure I misspelled the damn term. Welcome to 60's era Jim Crow, Israel.

wrong. only if they are jewish. I am an american married to an israeli. I cannot get israeli citizenship.

ironically my wife is studying for her us citizenship and my daughters are duel citizens.

OK, so nobody automatically gets citizenship. That was not mentioned in TFA. But it seems to point out that even that isn't an option if the spouse happens to fall into that one particular racial group.

it not an option for anyone who is not jewish or already an israeli citizen to become a citizen except by birth. Arab israelis' children are israelis.

tlchwi02: CitizenTed: And I do consider Turkey to be a more secular, democratic and stable state than Israel. In fact, I think Turkey is a better "partner in peace" than Israel. I'm even considering visiting Turkey this year on vacation. Israel? Um, no thanks.

i've always wanted to visit Instabul myself. its on my bucket list

Israel does seem like a beautiful country...as long as you're a Jew.

Never thought about Istanbul though, although it does seem like a nice city.

RexTalionis: sno man: RexTalionis: neversubmit: Tatsuma: hubiestubert: Tell me again how this paves the path towards reconcilliation and peace.,,

Tell me why we have to always be the only ones to do this

Who are the better people? .... Right! That's why.

I say we should just take the land away from everybody currently living in the area and give it to, I dunno, Asians or something.

that's funny, didn't they just kick out the one Japanese kid studying there so he wouldn't put down roots?

Oh, yeah, they did:

HA'ARETZ - "More than 300 lecturers and doctoral students sent on Tuesday letters to Israel's President Shimon Peres, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar to protest the Immigration Authority's decision not to extend a foreign student's visa. In its decision, the Immigration Authority said it feared the student - who asked to extend his visa so he can finish his doctorate, might "strike down roots" in Israel.

Koji Yamashiro finished his B.A. and M.A. in the Department of Jewish Thought in Jerusalem's Hebrew University, and won a presidential scholarship for his doctoral studies. Yamashiro's research focuses on monotheistic religions. "

That's awful. The really need to put the moderates and centrists back in charge in that country.

Too bad Israel faces the same problem as the US and keeps shifting to the right.

CitizenTed: And I do consider Turkey to be a more secular, democratic and stable state than Israel. In fact, I think Turkey is a better "partner in peace" than Israel. I'm even considering visiting Turkey this year on vacation. Israel? Um, no thanks.

i've always wanted to visit Instabul myself. its on my bucket list

LincolnLogolas: CitizenTed: ArkAngel: As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

What am I? Chopped liver?

Depending on who you ask, Turkey is either European (Istanbul spans the dividing line between Europe and Asia) or Middle-Eastern.

Turkey is really sort of both. Yes, it is applying for entry in to the EU. And yes, it is a full NATO country. And yes, its urban populations seem kind of thrilled to be considered "European". But Turkey is also geographically middle eastern and it has a huge amount of sway in Mideast politics, both historically and currently. Their Kurdish troubles extend to Iraq and their Syrian worries seem to have no end. Add to that a long border with Iran and I think it's safe to say Turkey is "Middle Eastern".

And I do consider Turkey to be a more secular, democratic and stable state than Israel. In fact, I think Turkey is a better "partner in peace" than Israel. I'm even considering visiting Turkey this year on vacation. Israel? Um, no thanks.

Karac: Tatsuma: How is that about racial purity if it's about ANY Israeli, whether Arab, Jewish, or anything else?

Maybe because it appears that if an American marries an Israeli, the American gets Israeli citizenship. Same for Germans, the French, Djiboutians, Martian manhunters, kryptonians, and Wookies.

But if the spouse happens to be Palistianian, then the rules change. This shiat is no better than the anti-miscongeniation laws that we got rid of in the US decades ago. Hell, we got rid of them so long ago, I'm pretty sure I misspelled the damn term. Welcome to 60's era Jim Crow, Israel.

wrong. only if they are jewish. I am an american married to an israeli. I cannot get israeli citizenship.

ironically my wife is studying for her us citizenship and my daughters are duel citizens.

The United States?

Ancient Israel?

Philip Francis Queeg: yert: Mrtraveler01: yert: cameroncrazy1984: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

not really the father could be a black kenyan usurper. the kid is still a jew. so race really is not important. heritage and tradition are what count.

So instead of racial purity it's religious purity?

Well that makes it all better than right?

/rolls eyes

no it its not relgious either. it is cultural heritage. many jew are not religiousl. my father in law was an atheist but he was still jewish. jews cannot sepparte their religion and their culture. it is one in the same. where as most Europeans can.

I am not saying I agree with with the Israelis/Jews on any of this. I am just trying to explain it so people have some knowledge of what they they are talking about.

What does your mother's ancestory have to do with cultural heritage?

don't know really. I am not jewish. it was explained to me that the father could be anyone but there was only one choice for the mother. I guess it is a way to keep your population high. If your woman can slutty but their kids are part of the tribe you get a bigger tribe.

emotion_lotion: Tatsuma just amazes me.

Not only does he know what all Jews think and feel, he is privy to all meetings held by the Isreale government and gets to go on all military missions.

Then goes to the Palestinian side, checks it out and makes sure he truly understands thier side and perspective and what happened.

Then goes back in time to make sure Moses wrote the tora and makes sure that all ancient hebrew is translated properly so that there is no dissagrement on words and meanings.

I don't know how he does it, must be the Challah.

Dude's not even really Jewish. There's no zealotry like that of a convert.

yert: cameroncrazy1984: yert: cameroncrazy1984: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

not really the father could be a black kenyan usurper. the kid is still a jew. so race really is not important. heritage and tradition are what count.

Heritage...so, race.

Are you following this? Or do I have to break it down a little more for your simple brain?

cultural heritage.

And this makes it ok why?

Tatsuma: 96-98% of Judea and Samaria


You were offering them the white space on a piece of graph paper while forbidding them from touching the blue lines, and then told them to make a coherent country of it.

I would have told you to go suck eggs too.

Amos Quito: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish.


I' m not racist.

I have nothing against black people.

I only hate people whose parents were black people.

:-/

your mother can be black and jewish

yert: cameroncrazy1984: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

not really the father could be a black kenyan usurper. the kid is still a jew. so race really is not important. heritage and tradition are what count.

So instead of racial purity it's religious purity?

Well that makes it all better than right?

/rolls eyes

yert: cameroncrazy1984: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

not really the father could be a black kenyan usurper. the kid is still a jew. so race really is not important. heritage and tradition are what count.

If it was just heritage and tradition it wouldn't matter what either of your parents were.

cameroncrazy1984: yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

not really the father could be a black kenyan usurper. the kid is still a jew. so race really is not important. heritage and tradition are what count.

Jake Havechek: El Pachuco: Tatsuma: Considering a fringe minority who will write graffiti on buildings, or set the occasional empty disused mosques on fire, versus shooting and killing innocents and blowing themselves up in buses, I'd say my fringe is not so bad.

What Tatsuma's fringe minority may look like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 216x296][image1.findagrave.com image 181x245][upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]

He's a habitual liar. I don't know how he gets away with it on here.

He's the Chosen Farker.

yert: Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish

...sounds like racial purity to me.

I guess Israel learned more from the Jewish experience in WW2 then I previously thought.

Amos Quito: moops: Actual Farking: Also ironic is that Jewish resistance groups responded with terrorism.

Even more ironic that the heads of those Jewish terrorist groups became Prime Ministers of Israel.

[www.bollyn.com image 351x264]


The King David Hotel bombing was THE single deadliest terrorist attack ever committed in Palestine-cum-Israel.

Maybe they should ban Jews?

SHHHHH! It's not terrorism when the god of Abraham condones it, it 's only terrorism when the god of Mohamed does.

Cubansaltyballs: indylaw: Sincere question for someone knowledgeable of such things:

What is the legal distinction between an Arab citizen of Israel and a Palestinian Arab?

If they are not Jewish, and born anywhere, they are not a full citizen of Israel and are not permitted all the rights and protections of full citizens.

If they are Jewish, and born anywhere, they are a full citizen of Israel and are afforded all the rights and protections the sate can offer.

As far as I understand if you are born in Israel and are Arab (term used loosely) you are an Israeli citizen and have all the rights and protections there of (but are generally treated like blacks and mexicans here)

If you are arab and born in occupied terrirtory of somewhere else you are palastinian and can go fark yourself.

I believe Israel should exist like any other normal person does but some of these policies that Israel has are pretty disgusting and reprehensible and really makes you wonder if they used South Africa as a template for some of their laws.

How can people be ok with this?

Or Ariel Sharon, the butcher of Sabra and Shatilla.

As an american non jew married to an israeli jew this is not about Palestinians this rule goes for everyone. I cannot become an israeli citizen because I am not Jewish.

Jews (most of the) could care less about racial purity. What maters most is whether your mother was jewish. If you can prove that you are in like flyn. They will even give you a bunch of money to emigrate and move you into a nice settlement.

this is one of many issues I have with them.
get out of the west bank. It is not yours. I don't know who's it is but it is not yours. If they shoot at you shoot back but stay off their lawn.

/waiting for someone to call me an anti-semite

Tatsuma: hubiestubert:

Look, you are clearly ignorant of all the different attempts at peace that Israel made, or you are so blindfully biased that you refuse to even acknowledge them.

Explain to me how offering:

100% of Gaza
East Jerusalem
96-98% of Judea and Samaria
Accept a token number of 1948 refugees and compensate the rest

is not enough.

Because the last time we proposed them that, they didn't even bother calling back and say no, they just ignored us.

The map proposed by Ehud Barak was untenable. It annexed about 9% of Palestinian land and only gave back 1% of Israeli land. There were some crazy examples as well where towns a few miles about would be separated by dozens of miles thanks to convoluted borders without checkpoints. They basically took a Whitman's sampler box and ate everything but the Marzipan and then wondered why the Palestinians weren't thrilled with free chocolate.

Somacandra: bidness: Maybe if the Native Americans had the knowledge, will and capacity to form an ethnic-based nation-state, they would have been able to resist the incursions of European outsiders.

5/10

Needs more Elijah Muhammad.

Too low. Look at those bites!

8/10

Ironically while they demand that other countries INTEGRATE INTEGRATE INTEGRATE!

When are we going to stop sending these people money?

Sincere question for someone knowledgeable of such things:

What is the legal distinction between an Arab citizen of Israel and a Palestinian Arab?

CitizenTed: ArkAngel: As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

What am I? Chopped liver?

Depending on who you ask, Turkey is either European (Instanbul spans the dividing line between Europe and Asia) or Middle-Eastern.

bidness: All you morons braying about "a racist, apartheid state" should find out how Jews have been treated in most middle eastern countries, and you might understand why they want one state in the world where they're in the majority. want to get in on that action.

Apparently this makes it all ok.

BTW, this is the tripe that Abe Foxman from the ADL spews. The motherfarker runs an anti-bigotry organization, and is on record saying it's ok to be bigoted if you have a good reason. But only if you're Jewish.

bidness: All you morons braying about "a racist, apartheid state" should find out how Jews have been treated in most middle eastern countries, and you might understand why they want one state in the world where they're in the majority. And realize that most other states in the world were founded at least partially on an ethnic basis. "Democracy" isn't defined as "letting in so many foreigners and enemies that your native culture gets lost." Yeah, yeah, I already know what you're thinking. "You're not speaking Cherokee, blah blah blah, brown people." Maybe if the Native Americans had the knowledge, will and capacity to form an ethnic-based nation-state, they would have been able to resist the incursions of European outsiders.

So might makes right then?

It's fairly impressive how Israel manages to look like a dick... in the Middle East.

Actual Farking: Also ironic is that Jewish resistance groups responded with terrorism.

Even more ironic that the heads of those Jewish terrorist groups became Prime Ministers of Israel.

ArkAngel: Amos Quito: I, for one, am sure glad that the US strongly supports "the only free and democratic State in the Middle East."

God bless 'em.

As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East

"Only democracy in the Middle East", my ass. Farking Nazis. Fark you, Israel.

RexTalionis: xanadian: -sqrt(i)/10

Doesn't -sqrt(i) yield two separate answers?

According to google, yes.

cameroncrazy1984: An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: Ahh its been a while since the Fark Anti-semites came out for an attack on "da joos!"

Yes, any criticism of Israel, no matter how valid, is an attack on "da joos."


Well, there are only three kinds of people: Jews, known anti-Semites, and latent anti-Semites.


/Oh, and dead anti-Semites

crypticsatellite: cameroncrazy1984: crypticsatellite: The sheer amount of hate in these threads just boggles my mind. I see some folks in other threads and they seem fine, perhaps even nice. Then I see them here and see the hate-filled words they spew and it makes me sick

It really is sad how hateful Tats is in these threads, yes.

0/10.

Oh okay, I can add you in there if you want, since you seem to not want to contribute meaningfully to this discussion. And yes, Tats is hateful because he stated in this thread that all Palestinians want to gain Israeli citizenship so they can enter the country and blow it up. Deal with it.

tallguywithglasseson: The ruling, Yishai told Israel Radio, served to stem "a situation in which, not too many years hence, we would find yourself losing the majority, (and) faced with terrorism".

Yuck.

Serious yuck. They just flat out say it's a racial breeding thing.

crypticsatellite: The sheer amount of hate in these threads just boggles my mind. I see some folks in other threads and they seem fine, perhaps even nice. Then I see them here and see the hate-filled words they spew and it makes me sick

It really is sad how hateful Tats is in these threads, yes.

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: Ahh its been a while since the Fark Anti-semites came out for an attack on "da joos!"

Yes, any criticism of Israel, no matter how valid, is an attack on "da joos."

silly racist jews.

/america should not support either side in that clusterfark of religious stupidity.

Tatsuma: hubiestubert: I'm not on any side here.

"anti-israel statement"
"anti-israel statement"
"anti-israel statement"
"criticism of israel
"blaming israel
...
hey guys i'm not on any side

yeah as I said I'm done discussing with you


Tats' ignore list is like the Israeli settlements - it just keeps growing and growing and growing...

WorldCitizen: GAT_00: The right of return should not be banned, and you should accept the internationally mandated boundary. You're attempting to by negotiation solidify your stolen territories as legal when they are nothing of the sort.

Israel needs to do one of two things to not be an apartheid state.

1) Let the Palestinians have a real, contiguous state (within the West Bank and Gaza with some sort of even raised road or something to allow traffic to move between them).
2) Formally annex the Palestinian territories and give everyone equal rights.

The only other path is continued occupation of a peoples who are ghettoized and not given equal rights.


Both 1 and 2 fall broadly under "self determination" Right now they have none.

Tatsuma: 100% of Gaza
East Jerusalem
96-98% of Judea and Samaria
Accept a token number of 1948 refugees and compensate the rest

is not enough.

The right of return should not be banned, and you should accept the internationally mandated boundary. You're attempting to by negotiation solidify your stolen territories as legal when they are nothing of the sort.

How about having open negotiations with everything on the table instead of sending a list of options for them to agree to and calling it a negotiation? You're denouncing them for your own actions - not actually negotiating.

Tatsuma: hillbillypharmacist: ...and so why try anymore, right?

yeah, as long as they are not more serious about peace, and they don't drop their plans to wipe us off and take over our country eventually, we shouldn't bother.

Or, you know, elect someone else other than terrorists.

You can only make peace with those who seek peace.

It's only terrorism when they do it.

Tatsuma: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Like peacefully petitioning the largest diplomatic body in the world for official recognition?

And when they petitioned that largest diplomatic body in the world, it was for a unilateral move, and calling to return to the British Mandate boundaries

As opposed to the Israeli-mandated boundaries which form the letters, "fark you, Arabs?"

CitizenTed: ArkAngel: As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

What am I? Chopped liver?

Hmm, there's something I don't know the answer to: Is Turkey or Kuwait the most free state in the Middle East?

Israel is a solid third, at best.

ArkAngel: As much as this decision sucks, Israel is, by far, the most free country in the Middle East



What am I? Chopped liver?

Tatsuma: Tell me the last thing THEY did to pave the way toward reconciliation and peace.

You're the ones bombing them and oppressing Palestinians you fark.

Wendy's Chili: Where's whatshisface?

I'm sure he can explain why this is awesome and totally not bigoted.

You summoned him.

Tatsuma: How is that about racial purity if it's about ANY Israeli, whether Arab, Jewish, or anything else?

But Interior Minister Eli Yishai, who congratulated the Supreme Court on Thursday, made clear that shoring up Israel's Jewish majority was also a concern.

Oops. It's about a pure Jewish state. This is as simple as that. Saying anything else is a downright lie.

Democratic state my ass.

This is my shocked face.

hillbillypharmacist: I'm glad to see that antisemitism is alive and well.


Where?