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(Yahoo)   Israeli courts uphold law denying citizenship to Palestinian spouses of Israelis in order to preserve Jewish purity. You know who else had marriage laws aimed at preserving purity?   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 481
    More: Ironic, Palestinian, Israel Radio, Jewish settler, democratic principles, Stacy Keibler, Social Securities, High Court judges, judicial review  
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1700 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jan 2012 at 4:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-13 10:31:45 AM

TappingTheVein: Many of them are not natives, that's why the Arab states created a new definition for a refugee ('for a minimum of two years') just for the palestinian arabs. And let's ignore that 50% of jews in Israel are not European in origin or that there were native jews as well, facts like these tend to ruin your bullshiat rhetoric.



Not European in origin? So where DID Israel's population originate?

Ethnic Makeup of Jewish Population of Israel (new window)

TOTAL 5,818,000 100%
Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews 2,921,000 50.2%
Morocco 800,000 15.2%
Iraq 404,000 7.7%
Yemen 295,000 4.9%
Iran 236,000 4.0%
Algeria/Tunisia 224,000 3.8%
Other Asia 150,000 2.5%
Turkey 147,000 2.5%
Libya 136,000 2.3%
Egypt 112,000 1.9%
Bulgaria/Greece 97,000 1.9%
Other Asia 200,000 1.7%
India/Pakistan 76,000 1.3%
Latin America 25,000 0.4%
Other Africa (Not South Africa) 3,000 0.05%
Beta Israel (Ethiopia) 130,000 2.2%
Ashkenazi Jews 2,767,000 47.5%
Russia 1,018,000 20.9%
Poland 400,000 8.3%
Romania 351,000 7.6%
Other Europe 168,000 3.7%
North America (Including 4,000 African American Black Hebrews) 165,000 2.8%
Germany/Austria 160,000 2.7%
Latin America 82,000 1.4%
Hungary 63,000 1.3%
Czechoslovakia 60,000 1.2%
South Africa 20,000 0.4%

Notice that I highlighted Turkey above?

Those are the only ones that could be called "native" to the area - and that's a stretch.

All the rest are "interlopers" from outside the area. In other words, they're NOT "native".
 
2012-01-13 10:42:29 AM

Amos Quito: Not European in origin? So where DID Israel's population originate?


Like your own statistics suggest, more than half originated in the neighboring arab lands. Not like you claimed ('European Interlopers').

Amos Quito: Those are the only ones that could be called "native" to the area - and that's a stretch.

All the rest are "interlopers" from outside the area. In other words, they're NOT "native".


I was referring to native jewish residents of Israel, not Turkey (notice the highlight ?) or any other area. That statistics are not on your list.
 
2012-01-13 10:47:46 AM

TappingTheVein: Uncle Tractor: BTW: Why am I a liar?

Because you claimed that i 'screamed anti-semites at everybody' which i, as i clearly explained, didn't. Or was it your evil twin brother posting ?


TappingTheVein: Nice to see a trollific headline bringing out the usual Fark's Antisemite brigade(TM) in droves.


No, it's not absolutely everybody, but it's everybody who dares criticize Israel, and that's close enough.
 
2012-01-13 10:49:36 AM

Uncle Tractor: No, it's not absolutely everybody, but it's everybody who dares criticize Israel, and that's close enough.


Again: nope, wrong. You even fail at trying to rationalize your bullshiat to yourself.
 
2012-01-13 10:52:10 AM

liam76: Uncle Tractor: Why am I a liar

Ethnic cleansing, calling this law racist, accusing him of screaming "anti semite".

now if I had never seen you post in these threads before I could excuse the first two as simple ignorance, but they are false and you know they are false, which means you are a liar.


You can't support Israel without also supporting apartheid and ethnic cleansing, because that's the heart and soul of zionism. Even Herlz knew that, even though he didn't use those words for it. How else does one create a jewish state in an arab land?

As for a law that discriminates on the basis of ethnicity, how could it not be racist?
 
2012-01-13 10:54:25 AM

Uncle Tractor: You can't support Israel without also supporting apartheid and ethnic cleansing, because that's the heart and soul of zionism. Even Herlz knew that, even though he didn't use those words for it. How else does one create a jewish state in an arab land?


If Israel is practicing ethnic cleansing, as you repeatedly claimed, why has the population of arab Israeli's increased?

Uncle Tractor: As for a law that discriminates on the basis of ethnicity, how could it not be racist?


Are you now arguing that palestenian is an ethnicity?
 
2012-01-13 11:21:32 AM

TappingTheVein: Uncle Tractor: No, it's not absolutely everybody, but it's everybody who dares criticize Israel, and that's close enough.

Again: nope, wrong. You even fail at trying to rationalize your bullshiat to yourself.


I see. Then what are your qualifications for accusing someone of being an "anti-semite?"

I assume I fit the description? (after all, I'm siding with the palestinians)
 
2012-01-13 11:28:22 AM

liam76: Uncle Tractor: You can't support Israel without also supporting apartheid and ethnic cleansing, because that's the heart and soul of zionism. Even Herlz knew that, even though he didn't use those words for it. How else does one create a jewish state in an arab land?

If Israel is practicing ethnic cleansing, as you repeatedly claimed, why has the population of arab Israeli's increased?


Because ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. That's why. A population can increase even though the amount of land available to them is decreasing.

Uncle Tractor: As for a law that discriminates on the basis of ethnicity, how could it not be racist?

Are you now arguing that palestenian is an ethnicity?


Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian arabs are the arabs that lived in what used to be called Palestine. Alternately, one could say the palestinians are the people who've spent the past sixty years under the israeli boot.
 
2012-01-13 11:31:48 AM

Uncle Tractor: Then what are your qualifications for accusing someone of being an "anti-semite?"


Like my qualifications pointing out water is wet and the sun is hot ?
I'm calling someone an anti-semite when i have proof they are anti-semites, naturally.

Uncle Tractor: I assume I fit the description? (after all, I'm siding with the palestinians)


I already said that i wasn't referring to you, try to keep up.
 
2012-01-13 11:40:02 AM

liam76: Amos Quito: On the one hand you're crying because the European interlopers have oppressed, subjugated, marginalized and stolen land from Native Americans, and on the other hand, you're biatching when the Native Palestinians complain about European interlopers doing the same thing to them

Jesus you are a simple Nazi.

he is saying if you live on land stolen from the Indians you don't really have the moral standing to tell Israel to leave.



Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?

"Morality" aside, Israelis are besieged. The Zionists schemed and swindled themselves into a perpetual mess. They fought and scratched to get hold of land where they had no business being, and have continued to fight and scratch to hold onto it every day since.

This will not end well.

What to do? Beats me. The future looks pretty grim, unfortunately.

Maybe the Messiah will show up and save you?
 
2012-01-13 11:55:49 AM

Uncle Tractor: Because ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. That's why. A population can increase even though the amount of land available to them is decreasing.


The "them" in this case is who exactly?

Uncle Tractor: Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian arabs are the arabs that lived in what used to be called Palestine. Alternately, one could say the palestinians are the people who've spent the past sixty years under the israeli boot


Yes they are. Palestenian isn't. This law isn't for arabs it is for Palestenians. So it isn't ethnic discrimination.

60 years really? How, exactly, were they under Israeli boot prior to 67? I will assume you were ignorant of who controlled them during that time, next time you spout off that nonsense I will chalk it up to another one of your lies.

Amos Quito: Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?


Yes, I learend that you will continue to make accusations about an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI, caused the holocaust in WWII and made other countries unwilling to take in jews after the holocaust but will refuse to answetr any direct questions.
 
2012-01-13 12:14:57 PM
Didn't we all just laugh at how dumb Newt was for saying palestinians were an invented people?

Saying "its not an ethnicity" makes some clear politically charged statements dispossessing the national apirations of the palestinians. These are largely terms of self identification, and tied into the efforts of nationalism that the whole region saw during th last years of the Ottoman empire. To do this you need to believe a certain politically charged portion of palestinian statistics, zionist immigration and the belief that one idenity is "true" and not inventeed while the other is "false" and unworthy. Were all "invented" and this type of language clearly indicates a person who has already dispossessed the people and deemed them unworthy.
 
2012-01-13 12:24:40 PM

Auto432: Saying "its not an ethnicity" makes some clear politically charged statements dispossessing the national apirations of the palestinians.


So if I said "american" (as in from the USA) isn't an ethnicity am making a politically charged statement against the legitimacy of USA's statehood?
 
2012-01-13 12:50:59 PM
Liam: the US isnt a nation state. the people are ideologically bound under the constitution, rather than an origns myth. I dont appreciate the red herring. this thread is full of them. Uncle Tractor had to deal with one on "native americans" quite a bit here. It skips over the first point, leaves it unanswered, and now the person who had the ctiticism is compelled to defend a different point . Im on a phone and I dont have the time for a perfidious discussion
 
2012-01-13 12:58:30 PM

Auto432: Liam: the US isnt a nation state. the people are ideologically bound under the constitution, rather than an origns myth. I dont appreciate the red herring. this thread is full of them. Uncle Tractor had to deal with one on "native americans" quite a bit here. It skips over the first point, leaves it unanswered, and now the person who had the ctiticism is compelled to defend a different point . Im on a phone and I dont have the time for a perfidious discussion


My point was that saying group X isn't an ethnicity is in no way an argument that they can't be a nation.

Does having an original myth make an ethnicity? What is the "original myth" of the Palestenians?

No idea what "first point" you are talking about.

But you have the time to make BS claims that saying a group isn;t an ethnicity must mean they can;t be a nation?
 
2012-01-13 01:12:36 PM
Last reply to you, considering your use of red herrings, etc.

nation state is directly tied to ethicity - itself acommon cultural construction. your opinion on their legitimacy is known. you find them unworthy.

its not original myth, its an origins myth. Israelis have one too for their nation state. done wasing my phone bandwidth
 
2012-01-13 01:21:30 PM

Auto432: Last reply to you, considering your use of red herrings, etc.


The only one creating red herrings here is you.

Tractor claimed this law is ethnic discrimination. That is false. If it said you can't marry arabs and have them move to Israel it would be true. Instead of admitting he is wrong and saying it is another type of discrimination, you are bringing up BS claims linking ethnicity to nationality.


Auto432: nation state is directly tied to ethicity - itself acommon cultural construction. your opinion on their legitimacy is known. you find them unworthy.


If that were true then all americans would be of the same ethnicity, this isn't true.

I don't find palestenians "unworthy" of anything. I believe in a two state solution (funny you would complain about red herrings then bring up that strawman).


Auto432: its not original myth, its an origins myth. Israelis have one too for their nation state


My mistake. Question still stands.

Does having an origins myth make an ethnicity? What is the "origins myth" of the Palestenians.


Auto432: done wasing my phone bandwidth


I think you mean done changing the subject and creating strawmen.
 
2012-01-13 01:27:08 PM

liam76: Amos Quito: Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?

Yes, I learend that you will continue to make accusations about an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI



That's funny, I didn't say that...


liam76: caused the holocaust in WWII



Or that...


liam76: and made other countries unwilling to take in jews after the holocaust



Or that.

Here's the link. Refresh your memory. (new window)

What I did do was make many direct quotes from highly reputable sources - all of which were cited - that provided an overview of the Zionist Conquest of Palestine.

But I must say that what you inferred from the quotes is interesting, in any case.

Oh, and what questions?
 
2012-01-13 01:46:37 PM

Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?

Yes, I learend that you will continue to make accusations about an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI


That's funny, I didn't say that...


Yeah you did.

Amos Quito: After carefully considering both offers (according to George), the Zionists rebuffed the Germans, choosing instead to go with the British proposal, and agreed to pledge their considerable financial and political support to Britain in exchange for the promise of a Zionist Homeland for Jews in Palestine. This deal was formalized in the Balfour Declaration of 1917. (new window)

Coincidentally, this also marked a major turning point in the war: Up to this point Germany had been winning - the British were on the verge of suing for peace, Germany had succeeded in mortally weakening Russia. indeed, Germany had largely enjoyed the support not only of Jews but of Zionists, who were anxious to see the Czar defeated. But after the Balfour Declaration was signed, things started going badly for Germany, and as history shows, she eventually suffered a crushing and debilitating defeat at the hands of the Allies.


Amos Quito: liam76: caused the holocaust in WWII


Or that...


When you say, "They were dragged, kicking and screaming thanks to the relentless scheming of the Zionist plotters" you are putting the responsibility of the holocaust on Zionists. You are also saying becasue of the zionists other countries weren't welcoming the jews.



Amos Quito: What I did do was make many direct quotes from highly reputable sources - all of which were cited - that provided an overview of the Zionist Conquest of Palestine.


You provided quotes that indicate zionists were more concerned with getting jews to Israel then getting jews out of Europe. A point I have repeatedly said I don't have a problem with. The problem is that their concerns don't really matter unless they had the power that created the situation possible. For you to continue to attribute it to them means you believe they did have that power. You continue to hint at it but refuse to adress it.


Amos Quito: Oh, and what questions?


I am going to leave you with the same questions I did in the last thread.

The question still is did they have somewhere else to go and did zionists cause the holocaust, because without those two things you little theories about evil jews or zionists scheming being the main cause for Israel falls apart. A question you seem to be flip flopping on and now instead of clarifying your stance will just link to random sites and declare the "case dismissed". Is that because you know it is BS or you know answering clearly will mark you for the antisemite you are


So as it stands you won't comment on if jews have the right to buy land or have a state in a land without one. You keep hinting at a superpowerful jewish conspiracy that was behind Germany's loss in WWI and the holocaust in WWII but you refuse to come out and say what you seem to be hinting at. So not only do you look like an anti-semite, but a coward as well.



Amos Quito:
But I must say that what you inferred from the quotes is interesting, in any case.


what is interesting is that you can go back and re-post pits I have responded to and ignore my response. You can quote from threads where I asked you questions, yet pretend you don't knwo what the questions are.
 
2012-01-13 02:12:01 PM

liam76: Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: Did you learn nothing from the history lesson I gave you the other day?

Yes, I learend that you will continue to make accusations about an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI


That's funny, I didn't say that...

Yeah you did.

Amos Quito: After carefully considering both offers (according to George), the Zionists rebuffed the Germans, choosing instead to go with the British proposal, and agreed to pledge their considerable financial and political support to Britain in exchange for the promise of a Zionist Homeland for Jews in Palestine. This deal was formalized in the Balfour Declaration of 1917. (new window)



Is the above true or untrue?

Explain your answer.


liam76: Coincidentally, this also marked a major turning point in the war: Up to this point Germany had been winning - the British were on the verge of suing for peace, Germany had succeeded in mortally weakening Russia. indeed, Germany had largely enjoyed the support not only of Jews but of Zionists, who were anxious to see the Czar defeated. But after the Balfour Declaration was signed, things started going badly for Germany, and as history shows, she eventually suffered a crushing and debilitating defeat at the hands of the Allies.



Is the above true or untrue? And if it is true, how does this translate to "an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI"?


liam76: When you say, "They were dragged, kicking and screaming thanks to the relentless scheming of the Zionist plotters" you are putting the responsibility of the holocaust on Zionists. You are also saying becasue of the zionists other countries weren't welcoming the jews.



We know that prior to WWII, and especially prior to the rise of Hitler and Nazism, the vast majority of Jews wanted no part in the Zionist scheme, don't we? THEY HAD NO DESIRE TO MOVE TO PALESTINE. Following the rise of Hitler - and especially the Holocaust, those attitudes changed, didn't they? How do you translate that as "the Zionists were responsible for the Holocaust"?

Your "logic" is mystifying.


liam76: Amos Quito: What I did do was make many direct quotes from highly reputable sources - all of which were cited - that provided an overview of the Zionist Conquest of Palestine.

You provided quotes that indicate zionists were more concerned with getting jews to Israel then getting jews out of Europe. A point I have repeatedly said I don't have a problem with. The problem is that their concerns don't really matter unless they had the power that created the situation possible. For you to continue to attribute it to them means you believe they did have that power. You continue to hint at it but refuse to adress it.



There seems to be little question as to whether the Zionists were a power political and financial influence. They offered (unsuccessfully) to PAY OFF THE TURKISH DEBT ($$$$$$$) in exchange for Palestine, didn't they? They had BOTH Germany AND Britain vying for Zionist support during WWI, didn't they? I don't know about you, but I'd say that that is a pretty damn impressive display of POWER to be wielding - especially for group that represents no country.

What, you thought the Zionists were just a bunch of idealistic daydreamers sitting around campfires?


As to your "questions", I don't see anything there that I haven't addressed.

Do you?
 
2012-01-13 02:13:13 PM
liam76
Sorry but Palestenian isn't a race.

Duh? It's a nationality. Is "American" a race?


TappingTheVein
Your'e right. Let's allow every arab who wants to to come be an Israeli citizen. i'm sure no one will exploit this kind of thing to end Israel, ever. No sir.
Oh look, another subscriber to the Palestinian Hive Mind theory.

So it's a conspiracy of 4 million people? They're all in on it?


liam76
If Israel is practicing ethnic cleansing, as you repeatedly claimed, why has the population of arab Israeli's increased?

There's still some residual respect for basic human rights in Israel. Doesn't mean the Israeli hard-right (a significant minority) isn't trying, and doing a lot of farked-up shiat in the process.
 
2012-01-13 02:22:01 PM

RanDomino: Oh look, another subscriber to the Palestinian Hive Mind theory.

So it's a conspiracy of 4 million people? They're all in on it?


I know people find it odd but Israel is not interested in committing national suicide.
 
2012-01-13 02:28:20 PM

Amos Quito: Is the above true or untrue? And if it is true, how does this translate to "an all-powerful shadowy conspiracy of jews who caused Germany to lose WWI"?


You link the signing of the balfour decleration to germany losing the war. Why do that unless you are trying to highlight to power a secret jewish group?

Amos Quito: We know that prior to WWII, and especially prior to the rise of Hitler and Nazism, the vast majority of Jews wanted no part in the Zionist scheme, don't we? THEY HAD NO DESIRE TO MOVE TO PALESTINE. Following the rise of Hitler - and especially the Holocaust, those attitudes changed, didn't they? How do you translate that as "the Zionists were responsible for the Holocaust"?

Your "logic" is mystifying


The reason they left was because of the Holocaust, the reason the went to Israel is because not many places were welcoming them. You said the Zionistes dragged them to Israel. For you to attribute them being in Israel to zionists means they were behind the holocaust and that they were why jews weren't welcomed in other countries.

If I really wanted to rent my guest house and offered to let my neighbor live there at a great rate but he wasn't interested, and then his house burned down and he moved in would it be honest to say I dragged him there kicking and screaming?

You keep blurringt he line between taking advantage of the situation or creatingt he situation, pick one.


Amos Quito: There seems to be little question as to whether the Zionists were a power political and financial influence. They offered (unsuccessfully) to PAY OFF THE TURKISH DEBT ($$$$$$$) in exchange for Palestine, didn't they? They had BOTH Germany AND Britain vying for Zionist support during WWI, didn't they? I don't know about you, but I'd say that that is a pretty damn impressive display of POWER to be wielding - especially for group that represents no country.


Here you are dancing around again. Come on quit being a pussy. Yesterday you admiterd they shoudl leave or die, now come out and tell us honestly what you think of the secret jew league and the powers they have.

As for the paying off the debt, do you think he had a check or soemthing? Do you really think he was going to pay it off overnight or was gambling on getting rich jews to move?

Amos Quito: As to your "questions", I don't see anything there that I haven't addressed.


When did you answer if jews should have been allowed to own land? When did you answer if jews who owned land in a place with no state should be allowed to form a state?

And you have never clarified the "kicking and screaming" quote above.
 
2012-01-13 02:34:40 PM

RanDomino: liam76
Sorry but Palestenian isn't a race.

Duh? It's a nationality. Is "American" a race?


Maybe you should take that up with the moron that was claiming they were a race or ethnicity.

RanDomino: liam76
If Israel is practicing ethnic cleansing, as you repeatedly claimed, why has the population of arab Israeli's increased?

There's still some residual respect for basic human rights in Israel. Doesn't mean the Israeli hard-right (a significant minority) isn't trying, and doing a lot of farked-up shiat in the process


Then by all means call them out on their farked up shiat but don't make up lies about ethnic cleansing.

liam76: Amos Quito: There seems to be little question as to whether the Zionists were a power political and financial influence. They offered (unsuccessfully) to PAY OFF THE TURKISH DEBT ($$$$$$$) in exchange for Palestine, didn't they? They had BOTH Germany AND Britain vying for Zionist support during WWI, didn't they? I don't know about you, but I'd say that that is a pretty damn impressive display of POWER to be wielding - especially for group that represents no country.

Here you are dancing around again. Come on quit being a pussy. Yesterday you admiterd they shoudl leave or die, now come out and tell us honestly what you think of the secret jew league and the powers they have.

As for the paying off the debt, do you think he had a check or soemthing? Do you really think he was going to pay it off overnight or was gambling on getting rich jews to move?


You do know in the link you posted to confirm jewish determination to get Israel and worldide power, it had this gem, "On the failure of that scheme, which took him to Cairo, he received, through L. J. Greenberg, an offer (August 1903) on the part of the British government to facilitate a large Jewish settlement, with autonomous government and under British suzerainty, in British East Africa."

Sounds a lot more like a movement that just wanted a homeland then one orchestrating and guiding world wars.
 
2012-01-13 02:35:43 PM
I only see two ways to settle the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without an effective genocide of one side.... either two independent viable states or merging into one state.

Both solutions will not be good for a dominate Jewish religious Israeli state, therefore the violence will continue in the area.

/correct me if I'm wrong.
 
2012-01-13 02:36:24 PM
TappingTheVein
I know people find it odd but Israel is not interested in committing national suicide.

So you actually think all 4 million Palestinians in Palestine are actively conspiring
 
2012-01-13 03:04:42 PM

Aldon: I only see two ways to settle the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without an effective genocide of one side.... either two independent viable states or merging into one state.

Both solutions will not be good for a dominate Jewish religious Israeli state, therefore the violence will continue in the area.

/correct me if I'm wrong.


Christians could expel both groups from the holy land and tell them that since they couldn't learn to share we are keeping it.
 
2012-01-13 03:06:12 PM

RanDomino: So you actually think all 4 million Palestinians in Palestine are actively conspiring


What ? i was referring to granting every arab israeli citizenship. I believe there are a bit more than 4 million.

If you are referring to the law in question i suggest you read the court's rational behind the verdict. It's enough that a tiny percentage are going to exploit it (like they actually did). They can reunited with my blessings , just not in Israel.
 
2012-01-13 03:34:07 PM

RanDomino: liam76
Sorry but Palestenian isn't a race.

Duh? It's a nationality. Is "American" a race?


I wouldn't bother since he can't get a hold of basic concepts. When I described the problem with his argument, he rolled right into a red herring argument that evaded the original point, shifting the discussion from constructed ethnicity and nationality on Palestine and moved it to the US. When I reminded him that the US was not a nation state, and the people are ideologically bound under the constitution, rather than an origns myth, he flubbed. He actually quoted where I state the US is nation state, then went derp con 5 arguing against the point of ethnic/cultural foundations for nationality (underlying his ignorance of basic topics or ability to google) by saying "If that were true then all americans would be of the same ethnicity, this isn't true."

At least he completely evade his his original point on the Palestinians with a red herring.
 
2012-01-13 03:41:28 PM

muck4doo: It's you being a douche that thinks your new rules apply to everyone else but not you and the land you stoled.


Write when you sober up.
 
2012-01-13 03:44:59 PM

liam76: Amos Quito: There seems to be little question as to whether the Zionists were a power political and financial influence. They offered (unsuccessfully) to PAY OFF THE TURKISH DEBT ($$$$$$$) in exchange for Palestine, didn't they? They had BOTH Germany AND Britain vying for Zionist support during WWI, didn't they? I don't know about you, but I'd say that that is a pretty damn impressive display of POWER to be wielding - especially for group that represents no country.

Here you are dancing around again. Come on quit being a pussy. Yesterday you admiterd they shoudl leave or die,



No, that's what you said, and I answered by thanking you not to put your filthy, lying words in my mouth, you dishonest POS. :-)

Retract and apologize, and I'll consider addressing the rest of your twisting, writhing bile with a long, detailed and very enlightening quote from the memoirs of David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of Britain during WWI.

Mmmkay?


/No on likes a liar, liam76
 
2012-01-13 03:47:55 PM

kbronsito: Christians could expel both groups from the holy land and tell them that since they couldn't learn to share we are keeping it.


Double "ethnic cleansing"... doesn't sound great, and kinda proves my point.
 
2012-01-13 04:19:31 PM

Auto432: He actually quoted where I state the US is nation state


correction.
isn't a nation state.
 
2012-01-13 04:22:21 PM

Aldon: kbronsito: Christians could expel both groups from the holy land and tell them that since they couldn't learn to share we are keeping it.

Double "ethnic cleansing"... doesn't sound great, and kinda proves my point.


technically I wasn't advocating ethnic cleansing. I was going to forcible removal. (but I guess they may resist, which could turn into ethnic cleansing). It's tough love.
 
2012-01-13 05:51:23 PM

liam76: Uncle Tractor: Because ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. That's why. A population can increase even though the amount of land available to them is decreasing.

The "them" in this case is who exactly?


The arabs of Palestine. (yes, Palestine is a real place. You can find it on real maps)

Uncle Tractor: Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian arabs are the arabs that lived in what used to be called Palestine. Alternately, one could say the palestinians are the people who've spent the past sixty years under the israeli boot

Yes they are. Palestenian isn't. This law isn't for arabs it is for Palestenians. So it isn't ethnic discrimination.


The law discriminates between arabs and jews. That makes it ethnic discrimination. Hearing you say it's not a racist law because palestinians aren't an ethnic group is like hearing a teabagger say that waterboarding isn't torture because of ... I don't remember the weasel-words the neo-cons used to re-define torture, but you get the picture.

60 years really? How, exactly, were they under Israeli boot prior to 67? I will assume you were ignorant of who controlled them during that time, next time you spout off that nonsense I will chalk it up to another one of your lies.

You aren't claiming that Israel suddenly appeared in 1967, are you? Or that everything was milk and honey prior to that? No massacres, no death marches, no state racism ... ?
 
2012-01-13 05:56:05 PM

TappingTheVein: I'm calling someone an anti-semite when i have proof they are anti-semites, naturally.


What proof is this? I don't need names (banning etc), just examples of what you think justifies calling somebody an anti-semite.
 
2012-01-13 06:44:45 PM

Uncle Tractor: TappingTheVein: I'm calling someone an anti-semite when i have proof they are anti-semites, naturally.

What proof is this? I don't need names (banning etc), just examples of what you think justifies calling somebody an anti-semite.



"Anti-Semites are people that Jews don't like."

- - Joseph Sobran
 
2012-01-13 07:15:21 PM
TappingTheVein
What ? i was referring to granting every arab israeli citizenship. I believe there are a bit more than 4 million.

No, you said, "Let's allow every arab who wants to to come be an Israeli citizen. i'm sure no one will exploit this kind of thing to end Israel, ever. No sir."

How would they "exploit this kind of thing to end Israel," exactly?
 
2012-01-13 08:22:21 PM
This is embarrassing and saddening, and I'm amazed Israel continues to sell itself as a democracy in light of such blatant discrimination. I mean, only Palestinian spouses? This makes the rhetoric of blaming the Palestinians for a lack of peace all the more dubious.

It's a shame to see such a great country shooting itself in the foot like this.
 
2012-01-13 11:41:58 PM

kbronsito: technically I wasn't advocating ethnic cleansing. I was going to forcible removal. (but I guess they may resist, which could turn into ethnic cleansing). It's tough love.


"I guess they may resist"? Have you seen what the Israeli and Palestinian people have been doing the last 60+ years?

To be fair, are there any modern ethnic group who have been for forcibly removed from their homeland that didn't result in a lot of bloodshed? If there is such a pacifist people, they are nothing like this group.
 
2012-01-14 12:15:40 AM
submitter: You know who else had marriage laws aimed at preserving purity?

Is the answer, "Hitler"?

It's "Hitler", isn't it? "Hitler", and "the Nazis"?

You know, back in the 1930s and 1940s and WWII and stuff?

Is that the answer?
 
2012-01-14 05:30:34 AM

BuckTurgidson: submitter: You know who else had marriage laws aimed at preserving purity?

Is the answer, "Hitler"?

It's "Hitler", isn't it? "Hitler", and "the Nazis"?

You know, back in the 1930s and 1940s and WWII and stuff?

Is that the answer?



Well, yes and no - meaning that his was hardly an original concept.

Think back further - to Abraham, Issac and Jacob, etc.

Yeah. Hitler's ideas were hardly original.

Copycat.
 
2012-01-14 06:33:04 AM

Sumo Surfer: It's a shame to see such a great country shooting itself in the foot like this.


Israel was never a great country. It was a planned ethnic cleansing from the very beginning;


"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl, 1895
 
2012-01-14 07:09:44 AM

Uncle Tractor: What proof is this? I don't need names (banning etc), just examples of what you think justifies calling somebody an anti-semite.


For example, one of the classics: a jewish cabal conspiracies, orchestrating world events and wars for the benefit of the jews. There's a reason Amos Quito feels a bit defensive about this particular issue. Why don't you ask him why.
 
2012-01-14 07:17:13 AM

RanDomino: No, you said, "Let's allow every arab who wants to to come be an Israeli citizen. i'm sure no one will exploit this kind of thing to end Israel, ever. No sir."


And, like i said very clearly, i was talking about every arab.

RanDomino: How would they "exploit this kind of thing to end Israel," exactly?


Israel, unlike its arab/islamic neighbors, is a democracy. A tiny country being flooded by arabs/muslims will become a de-facto arab country. it'll be like the Phased Plan executed in one iteration, ending Israel without firing a single bullet. Arafat's corpse will probably ejaculate in its grave.

As promising as the prospect of living in an arab country i'll have to pass on it, as do every single sane Israeli (and all the arabs with israeli citizenships i know).
 
2012-01-14 07:25:29 AM

Uncle Tractor: Israel was never a great country. It was a planned ethnic cleansing from the very beginning;


"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl, 1895


Fake, fabricated out-of-context quote is fake and fabricated.
This is taken from an Op-Ed published on April 15, 1998 by the Raleigh News and Observer by anti-Israel activist Mazin Qumsiyeh.

The paraphrase leading up to the quote is pure fabrication. Herzl's diary entry makes no mention of either Arabs or Palestine, and for good reason. A careful reading of Herzl's diary entries for June 1895 reveals that, at the time, he did not consider Palestine to be the future site of Jewish resettlement but rather South America.

Furthermore, by omitting key parts of Herzl's diary entry, Qumsiyeh also misrepresents the meaning of Herzl's comment. Herzl wrote of finding employment for the locals in other countries; of buying their property-only from those willing to sell and for more than the owners would have expected-and then keeping the properties for Jews; and of respectfully tolerating and protecting those of other faiths.

Let's look at the actual real quote without Qumsiyeh's fabrications and editing :

When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of immovable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back.

It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire old world a wonderful example. ...

Estate owners who are attached to their soil ... will be offered a complete transplantation-to any place they wish, like our own people. ...If this offer is not accepted either, no harm will be done. ... we shall simply leave them there ....
 
2012-01-14 08:18:46 AM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Uncle Tractor: Because ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. That's why. A population can increase even though the amount of land available to them is decreasing.

The "them" in this case is who exactly?

The arabs of Palestine. (yes, Palestine is a real place. You can find it on real maps)

Uncle Tractor: Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian arabs are the arabs that lived in what used to be called Palestine. Alternately, one could say the palestinians are the people who've spent the past sixty years under the israeli boot

Yes they are. Palestenian isn't. This law isn't for arabs it is for Palestenians. So it isn't ethnic discrimination.

The law discriminates between arabs and jews. That makes it ethnic discrimination. Hearing you say it's not a racist law because palestinians aren't an ethnic group is like hearing a teabagger say that waterboarding isn't torture because of ... I don't remember the weasel-words the neo-cons used to re-define torture, but you get the picture.

60 years really? How, exactly, were they under Israeli boot prior to 67? I will assume you were ignorant of who controlled them during that time, next time you spout off that nonsense I will chalk it up to another one of your lies.

You aren't claiming that Israel suddenly appeared in 1967, are you? Or that everything was milk and honey prior to that? No massacres, no death marches, no state racism ... ?


Palestine is a a nationality not an ethnicity hence any law concerning them isn't racist.

You aren't cleansing an area of an ethnicity if Israeli Arabs can still go.

Words have meaning sorry that gets in the way of your antisemitism.

I never claimed life was great for palestenians prior to 67. Try not to make shiat up. I was countering your 'under the boothill for 60 years' claim.

Either you were lying or ignorant of who controlled the area between 48 and 67.
 
2012-01-14 08:29:57 AM

Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: There seems to be little question as to whether the Zionists were a power political and financial influence. They offered (unsuccessfully) to PAY OFF THE TURKISH DEBT ($$$$$$$) in exchange for Palestine, didn't they? They had BOTH Germany AND Britain vying for Zionist support during WWI, didn't they? I don't know about you, but I'd say that that is a pretty damn impressive display of POWER to be wielding - especially for group that represents no country.

Here you are dancing around again. Come on quit being a pussy. Yesterday you admiterd they shoudl leave or die,


No, that's what you said, and I answered by thanking you not to put your filthy, lying words in my mouth, you dishonest POS. :-)

Retract and apologize, and I'll consider addressing the rest of your twisting, writhing bile with a long, detailed and very enlightening quote from the memoirs of David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of Britain during WWI.

Mmmkay?


/No on likes a liar, liam76


I summarized your argument as they should leave or die and you agreed.

What is twisting about asking if jews have the right to buy land? Asking if they have a right to state in a place that has none? Asking how you can atribute something to a group when they don't have the power to create the situation?

Asking what the balfour declaration had to do germany world war 1.

I didn't pull these questions out of my ass, just trying to pin down your deep.
 
2012-01-14 08:39:28 AM

Auto432: RanDomino: liam76
Sorry but Palestenian isn't a race.

Duh? It's a nationality. Is "American" a race?

I wouldn't bother since he can't get a hold of basic concepts. When I described the problem with his argument, he rolled right into a red herring argument that evaded the original point, shifting the discussion from constructed ethnicity and nationality on Palestine and moved it to the US. When I reminded him that the US was not a nation state, and the people are ideologically bound under the constitution, rather than an origns myth, he flubbed. He actually quoted where I state the US is nation state, then went derp con 5 arguing against the point of ethnic/cultural foundations for nationality (underlying his ignorance of basic topics or ability to google) by saying "If that were true then all americans would be of the same ethnicity, this isn't true."

At least he completely evade his his original point on the Palestinians with a red herring.


So you are sticking with the idea that arbitrary lines created post WWII creates an ethnicity? Because that was what my post was addressing. Everything else you mentioned is your BS.
 
2012-01-14 09:28:38 AM

TappingTheVein: Fake, fabricated out-of-context quote is fake and fabricated.
This is taken from an Op-Ed published on April 15, 1998 by the Raleigh News and Observer by anti-Israel activist Mazin Qumsiyeh.


I'm going to take this at face value. I was probably wrong.
 
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