This shouldn't be partisan.

Think of all the hungry people in the world. Now think of all the money being spent on the political campaigns. What is wrong with this scenario?

dudemanbro: Don't forget that the contributors don't even have to be American. We could see $$ from anywhere trying to sway this election; China, the Russian Mafia, Israel, Saudi Arabia....even Canada.

Somewhere Alito is shaking his head "no," even without the ability to justify himself.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Lack of a reasonable alternative will keep Obama right where he is, too

Over in 3

Obama shouldn't even have to raise money.

And we elected him because we thought he was the right man for the job, not because some "dueling billionaire" wrote a check.

Subby fails as always.

Gingrich is supported by a Casino sugar-daddy. As such, one can assume Gingrich would re-legalize online betting. Vote Gingrich.

What the republican billionaire may look like

It's still a bad concept and should be discarded.

Weaver95: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Lack of a reasonable alternative will keep Obama right where he is, too

its what got him elected in the first place. we've got a two party system where one of the parties is completely bugf*ck insane and in all ways unelectable (that's the GOP, in case you needed it spelled out for ya). which means that the Democrats win by default. all the DNC has to do is NOT be bugf*ck insane.

That's why I've said this CU decision won't matter in the end. All the money in the world won't fix what's wrong with the Republican Party.

here's to hoping that the trashing of Romney brings Paul to the top.

cause I'd probably jump ship and vote red if given the choice between Bush Jr and Ron Paul

GroverCleveland: here's to hoping that the trashing of Romney brings Paul to the top.

cause I'd probably jump ship and vote red if given the choice between Bush Jr and Ron Paul

One can only hope

When Gingrich loses, will he try and find a younger, more attractive electorate?

Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia? I even have a co-worker who is a Paul supporter... just because he thinks it will mean the end of weed prohibition. He also wants the fed audited...even though he can't explain what that means or what the benefit would be. RON PAUL!

The losers? Us, because we're going to have political commercials 24/7 from June through the election.

I wonder:

If each side spends x amount, it evens out. No effect on outcome.
If one side spends x + y, they piss off the electorate with too many commercials; other side wins.
If one side spends x and the other spends x/2; the x wins.

Eventually, will they reach an unspoken consensus where each side spends about the same amount; just below where they perceive they'll piss off the electorate if they buy any more commercials? Kind of a coldwar stalemate situation?

Or will the side with the most money always have an advantage? (Yes, that seemed like a stupid question to me as I was typing it as well)

karmaceutical: Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia?

I think you just answered your own question.

karmaceutical: Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia? I even have a co-worker who is a Paul supporter... just because he thinks it will mean the end of weed prohibition. He also wants the fed audited...even though he can't explain what that means or what the benefit would be. RON PAUL!

First off, unless you're 60 you probably won't think I'm young. For me, it has to do mainly with his support of the constitution.

And his voting record (anti-war, anti-patriot act .. etc)

Even more so, I get the feeling that Ron Paul is voting with his actual conscience and not at the behest of corporate overlords. I don't agree with all of his positions, but I'm can barely stomach listening to Obamas empty campaign promises the second time around.

For example, "I'm a constitutional scholar ... so" .. the kind that signs a bill to allow US Citizens to be detained indefinitely without trial kind apparently.

Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

karmaceutical: Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia? I even have a co-worker who is a Paul supporter... just because he thinks it will mean the end of weed prohibition. He also wants the fed audited...even though he can't explain what that means or what the benefit would be. RON PAUL!

Take 10 seconds to google his positions:

-End the Federal war on drugs
-End US military occupation
-End the federal reserve

Ever heard of the allegory of the cave? Plato argued that a group of people born in a cave and chained to the inside would look at the walls and the shadow that fire cast upon them. To them, that would be their only reality so even the shadows would seem like the real thing. If you can convince a generation or two of the status quo then they will likely know no different. True enlightenment would come to those who ventured outside the cave. There's a whole generation of people who have spent nearly all of their salient years dealing with us fighting at least 2 wars. The appeal is that finally, people are starting to crave something different.

whidbey: Obama shouldn't even have to raise money.

And we elected him because we thought he was the right man for the job, not because some "dueling billionaire" wrote a check.

Subby fails as always.

You should actually RTFA...

whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

o5iiawah:

Ever heard of the allegory of the cave? Plato argued that a group of people born in a cave and chained to the inside would look at the walls and the shadow that fire cast upon them. To them, that would be their only reality so even the shadows would seem like the real thing. If you can convince a generation or two of the status quo then they will likely know no different. True enlightenment would come to those who ventured outside the cave. There's a whole generation of people who have spent nearly all of their salient years dealing with us fighting at least 2 wars. The appeal is that finally, people are starting to crave something different.

"Do Deformed Rabbit again. I love that one." - Terry Prattchett

I dunno, subby. Where do you think those billionaires are going to turn their guns after Romney wraps up the nomination?

GroverCleveland: whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

Uhm, that was a campaign promise. Surge in Afghanistan, followed by draw-dawn and exit by 2014. Out of Iraq by 2011 was another.

You just aren't paying attention.

Another question came up on the debates.
Would you send troops into Pakistan to get OBL?
McCain: No
Obama: Yes

Obama caught some flak for that since Pakistan is our "ally", but it turns out he did exactly what he said he would do.

He has wanted to close Gitmo, but Congress will not allow a penny to be spent toward that goal. The executive branch can't do jackshiat unless it is funded. That is why Gitmo is still running.

Pretty much everything else is GOP cloiture votes, fillibusters, and now with a GOP House - nothing!

See, Obama is just President - not emperor. He can't just make attrocities like the Patriot Ace go away. Only Congress (or SCOTUS) can do that.

o5iiawah: karmaceutical: Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia? I even have a co-worker who is a Paul supporter... just because he thinks it will mean the end of weed prohibition. He also wants the fed audited...even though he can't explain what that means or what the benefit would be. RON PAUL!

Take 10 seconds to google his positions:

-End the Federal war on drugs
-End US military occupation
-End the federal reserve

Ever heard of the allegory of the cave? Plato argued that a group of people born in a cave and chained to the inside would look at the walls and the shadow that fire cast upon them. To them, that would be their only reality so even the shadows would seem like the real thing. If you can convince a generation or two of the status quo then they will likely know no different. True enlightenment would come to those who ventured outside the cave. There's a whole generation of people who have spent nearly all of their salient years dealing with us fighting at least 2 wars. The appeal is that finally, people are starting to crave something different.

Yeah... but what if you take more than 10 seconds to think about the long term ramifications of doing something like "End the federal reserve." What does that even mean? Where are the nuts and bolts of his plan to end the federal reserve and replace it with... what?

According to Reason Magazine, liberals who attack Citizens United hate democracy.

madgonad: GroverCleveland: whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

Uhm, that was a campaign promise. Surge in Afghanistan, followed by draw-dawn and exit by 2014. Out of Iraq by 2011 was another.

You just aren't paying attention.

Another question came up on the debates.
Would you send troops into Pakistan to get OBL?
McCain: No
Obama: Yes

Obama caught some flak for that since Pakistan is our "ally", but it turns out he did exactly what he said he would do.

He has wanted to close Gitmo, but Congress will not allow a penny to be spent toward that goal. The executive branch can't do jackshiat unless it is funded. That is why Gitmo is still running.

Pretty much everything else is GOP cloiture votes, fillibusters, and now with a GOP House - nothing!

See, Obama is just President - not emperor. He can't just make attrocities like the Patriot Ace go away. Only Congress (or SCOTUS) can do that.

Yeah it's not like he has to sign bills to make them into la...oh wait. Quit making excuses for your golden calf. Obama is just as bad as the rest of them. Deal with it.

Who is the dumbass tag for?

GroverCleveland: whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

Which a lot of us wanted when Bush was still around. Hell, in 2005 we were begging for more troops in Afgahnistan since everybody seemed to be in Iraq at the time. Many felt it was the only way to get Afghanistan under control since our true problem was their neighbor Pakistan. Bush thought Iraq was the place. It wasn't and he was incompetent. Something Ron Paul has the same problem with. That (R) after his name gives him away.

karmaceutical: Seems like as good a thread as any... will someone explain the "youth" infatuation with Ron Paul? Every time I hear about a primary or town hall I get to hear about the young crowd of Paul supporters. Why??? Are they just at "that age" or live in some fantasy land where they believe this ridiculous Libertarian notion results in some kind of Star Trek utopia? I even have a co-worker who is a Paul supporter... just because he thinks it will mean the end of weed prohibition. He also wants the fed audited...even though he can't explain what that means or what the benefit would be. RON PAUL!

I think the youth are more likely to be effected by the policies Paul wants to end.

The war on drugs began in the 80s. If you're over the age of 50, then you were already past the experimental youth phase of your life when law enforcement really started cracking down.

Also, the vast majority of troops who served in the current wars are younger. Those in their 20s and 30s are far more likely to know someone who served. I had a bunch of friends who went to Iraq. One of them saw some pretty f-d up shiat, and was never the same when he got back.

madgonad: GroverCleveland: whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

Uhm, that was a campaign promise. Surge in Afghanistan, followed by draw-dawn and exit by 2014. Out of Iraq by 2011 was another.

You just aren't paying attention.

Another question came up on the debates.
Would you send troops into Pakistan to get OBL?
McCain: No
Obama: Yes

Obama caught some flak for that since Pakistan is our "ally", but it turns out he did exactly what he said he would do.

He has wanted to close Gitmo, but Congress will not allow a penny to be spent toward that goal. The executive branch can't do jackshiat unless it is funded. That is why Gitmo is still running.

Pretty much everything else is GOP cloiture votes, fillibusters, and now with a GOP House - nothing!

See, Obama is just President - not emperor. He can't just make attrocities like the Patriot Ace go away. Only Congress (or SCOTUS) can do that.

I get your point and I just disagree with both of these wars. I think they're bogus and nothing more than a grab at power and money. They're both unwinnable and have been all along.

now about the that pesky GOP ...

Obama the Most Veto-Shy President Since James Garfield (new window)

So Obama is either a major pussy or he shares the right wing agenda. Neither are things I can support in our leader. I don't believe Ron Paul supports the republican agenda, I think is is wisely playing the party for a shot at the job.

Also, how do you explain Obama signing the NDAA into law? Because that's where he lost me. I'll never vote for any politician that signed that crap again.

GroverCleveland: So Obama is either a major pussy or he shares the right wing agenda. Neither are things I can support in our leader.

So help us get some actual liberals in power. A far-right wingnut is not the solution to problems caused by far-right wingnuttery.

o5iiawah: -End the Federal war on drugs
-End US military occupation
-End the federal reserve

Madness.

Well, the third one is, at least.

GroverCleveland: Obama the Most Veto-Shy President Since James Garfield (new window)



You seem to know a lot about presidential history, GroverCleveland, if indeed that is your real name.

GroverCleveland: Also, how do you explain Obama signing the NDAA into law? Because that's where he lost me. I'll never vote for any politician that signed that crap again.

Still not paying attention....

He said as he signed it that he disagreed with it (the GOP PUT IT THERE), and that he wouldn't enforce it as chief executive.

If he DIDN'T sign it the military would financially collapse. The entire military budget was in that bill and Congress put the bill off until the last damn minute. If Obama didn't sign it he would defund the military right in the middle of a WAR. How do you think that would go off? Military salary's disappearing over Xmas. Contractors being laid off. Fuel supplies disappearing since there would be no money to purchase them? Yeah, that would go over real well....

/politics is complicated

Ron Paul is a religious lunatic. Whatever you think of his Libertarian philosophy, he throws it out the window when social issues come up. Oh yeah, get government out of your life unless you want to be gay or have an abortion. Then Big Brother government is going to bring the smackdown. You Paultards are seriously stupid. Paul is not some shining beacon of pure Libertarian thought. He's another Christianist who wants Sharia law in the U.S. He's just dressing up his Jesus in Ayn Rand's clothes.

madgonad: GroverCleveland: Also, how do you explain Obama signing the NDAA into law? Because that's where he lost me. I'll never vote for any politician that signed that crap again.

Still not paying attention....

He said as he signed it that he disagreed with it (the GOP PUT IT THERE), and that he wouldn't enforce it as chief executive.

If he DIDN'T sign it the military would financially collapse. The entire military budget was in that bill and Congress put the bill off until the last damn minute. If Obama didn't sign it he would defund the military right in the middle of a WAR. How do you think that would go off? Military salary's disappearing over Xmas. Contractors being laid off. Fuel supplies disappearing since there would be no money to purchase them? Yeah, that would go over real well....

/politics is complicated

I know that. But what's worse? Seriously ... no due process? You are nuts if you support that in favor of a fiscal boondoggle of our (their) own making.

So you're basically saying the military is too big to fail. Lots of that to go around these days.

We're getting farked any way you slice it. And one guy finalized it with his pen.

GroverCleveland: whidbey: GroverCleveland: Ramping up the war in Afghanistan is another point that makes me sick. What a waste of life and money. Obama is full of shiat. Period.

He wasn't "ramping up" sh*t. We were stuck with Bush's mistakes, and he was acting on the advice of the military, something Bush didn't even think of doing until it was too late. What would you have suggested instead?

Obama approves Afghanistan troop increase

I approve an Afghanistan Troop increase, so it's all gravy in my boat. He never campaigned against the fight in Afghanistan.

/Was there for the pre- AND post- troop surge
//We need an Engineer Surge as well

GroverCleveland: So you're basically saying the military is too big to fail. Lots of that to go around these days.

Has been since Eisenhower. Get used to reality, citizen.