THIS is why net neutrality needs to be overturned!

I remember a while back I had an AV program which would list competing products as viruses and automatically delete them.
I called it the crazy girlfriend, I eventually got smart ad uninstalled it.

sprawl15: THIS is why net neutrality needs to be overturned!

I look forward to the insightful analysis that backs up this summary statement.

I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

sprawl15: THIS is why net neutrality needs to be overturned!

No, this is why we need sopa to pass.

TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Oh? What's your IP?

So, the old fark link to slashdot.

Does the slashdot summary point to a blog post linking to drudge? Is there an actual story here, or is it turtles all the way down? Maybe I should go to digg and post a link to the story on fark going to slashdot linking to the blog post, etc.

Subby, you're why the internet sucks.

Fabric_Man: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Oh? What's your IP?

Mine is 127.0.0.1. Could you please delete my system32 folder? It's taking up too much space on my memory drive thing.

TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

The rhythm method really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Sock Ruh Tease: Fabric_Man: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Oh? What's your IP?

Mine is 127.0.0.1. Could you please delete my system32 folder? It's taking up too much space on my memory drive thing.

Don't worry...he's behind 7 proxies too.

Microsoft Security Essentials and don't be a moron with how you see the UAC controls.

Oh and patch Flash. Basically Adobe is the back door to your computer that was blown off six years ago during a SWAT raid and never fixed. So anyone can wander it. Do what you can, but odds are Flash (or some PDF based exploit, although fewer of them these days) is going to fark you at some point.

ha-ha-guy: Do what you can, but odds are Flash (or some PDF based exploit, although fewer of them these days) is going to fark you at some point.

I don't understand why PDFs need enough scripting support that exploiting it should be so easy. They should really be just dumb document with standardized formatting for viewing and printing.

ha-ha-guy: Microsoft Security Essentials

THIS

I don't know if it's the best.
I don't know if it's the fastest.

But it's free, doesn't nag, updates quietly and quickly, and basically leaves me the fark alone as it does its job so I can do mine.

Why couldn't the folks responsible for designing MSE be the lead designers for Windows?

IrateShadow: ha-ha-guy: Do what you can, but odds are Flash (or some PDF based exploit, although fewer of them these days) is going to fark you at some point.

I don't understand why PDFs need enough scripting support that exploiting it should be so easy. They should really be just dumb document with standardized formatting for viewing and printing.

That make it too easy to convert and copy without having you upgrade to a pay version.

GWLush: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Good luck with that.

Ehh, I've been doing well for the past six or so years.

Maybe I'm too laid back about it because I've never had to do any online shopping or buy anything online with a CC, and I don't facebook. I guess someone could find out more about me and install some crazy crap that makes me format my computer or even fries my harddrive, but if it's taken six years for that to happen it's been worth it not having my computer bogged down by these programs.

I'm completely aware of the risks, and I still don't care. I'm not saying everyone should be like me (I've made my parents purchase an anti-virus program). But I'm okay with it.

bemis23: I look forward to the insightful analysis

You know how I can tell you are new here?

Tax Boy: ha-ha-guy: Microsoft Security Essentials

THIS

I don't know if it's the best.
I don't know if it's the fastest.

But it's free, doesn't nag, updates quietly and quickly, and basically leaves me the fark alone as it does its job so I can do mine.

Why couldn't the folks responsible for designing MSE be the lead designers for Windows?

Word. This is why I've tried and discarded NAV and AVG multiple times in the past: they're resource hogs that slow my old laptop to the point of irritation; they're attention whores that are always thumping their chest about something or another, and they both conspicuously wanted to update and/or run atomic-scale scans of the HD every time I turned around.

Fark that...gimme Windows Firewall and MSE and I'm good to go.

/at my wife's nagging I recently downloaded, updated and ran AVG...which found nothing, so it's not like my computer is some crook's interwebs biatch

El Freak: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

I've gotten infected by an ad on this very website we're on. So yeah...good luck and all that.

Did you click the ad?

GWLush: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Good luck with that.

Nope, he is absolutely right. If you aren't stupid on the internet, then you don't need AV, but you DO need a firewall and you should know how to back out of potential traps.

Symantec products suck ass. They have been riding on their laurels for years. Currently I am finding Kaspersky to be superior to just about everything else, and I do test AV programs regularly against the most common threats we find on client computers. Their Internet Security suite is actually very, very good and stops the major root kits in their tracks. We use it daily in our computer cleaning operations, along with combofix, hitman pro, malwarebytes, hijack this, and sometimes Spybot Search & destroy (not keeping up these days). Stay away from their PURE product though, it just includes identity protection bells and whistles that accomplish little. If you like lean and mean, then their simple AV products is also very good, but I wouldn't recommend it for the average home user who is hyper clicky on the net.

Symantec, Trend Micro, and McAfee are crap and we regularly have to remove them for corruption and just a general lack of protective capability. This is what happens when you let your marketing department completely dominate your product. Yep, you sell units, but eventually your reputation suffers and people in the industry start talking. If it wasn't for Walmart, Best Buy and the OEMs, these companies would be out of business.

I am an independent computer store owner and I do not work for Kaspersky, but I am part of their affiliate program, in the interest of full disclosure.

TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Except sometimes websites are compromised and viruses end up on websites that are 100% legit.

It's relatively rare but it does happen. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a couple of viruses on your computer right now and don't even realize it. Depending on what their purpose is, they might not visibly disrupt your computer at all.

TimeWaste: El Freak: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

I've gotten infected by an ad on this very website we're on. So yeah...good luck and all that.

Did you click the ad?

Not necessary, some ads can infect your computer by just being displayed. I have seen this on slacker radio and on some tech sites linked from Fark (don't remember which one).

Companies aren't doing a good job of vetting their clients, and the bad guys have nothing to lose by trying it.

I have had questionable things on Fark too. It is a risk to simply be on the internet.

I don't advise people to not have some protection, but the original poster is right that you don't need AV if you are careful and are willing to accept the risks. I don't have AV on my two home computers, but I do have tools to get me out of trouble if, in the rare instance, I fall into a trap. Most people don't have that experience though, so I don't recommend it.

Non-evil Monkey: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Except sometimes websites are compromised and viruses end up on websites that are 100% legit.

It's relatively rare but it does happen. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a couple of viruses on your computer right now and don't even realize it. Depending on what their purpose is, they might not visibly disrupt your computer at all.

This is absolutely correct. If you run solo, you need other tools so you can make periodic sweeps on your computer. Stand alone scanners that don't have automatic protection, currently I like Hitman Pro, Combofix, and Malwarebytes.

Having a good backup of your OS and data is a good idea also.

TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

There's no reason to go out and pay for bloatware packages like McAfee or Symantec, but there's also no reason not to have a good piece of AV like MSE. Sure, you can be careful and get by, but why wouldn't you want a level of protection if you do someday screw up and load the wrong web page or click on the wrong link in your email?

It's like keeping a lit candle on the floor surrounded by gas-soaked rags, and saying "As long as I'm careful and don't knock over the candle, I'm fine".

I guess I'll buck the trend. Norton was bloatware, but they upped their game and cleaned it up a couple of years back. I have no issues with how it runs on my machine. Fast, quiet, and uses less resources than that stupid iTuneshelper + iPod service proc I keep having to kill (I really need to just rip iTunes out but i"m lazy) And I have been known to snoop around some darker parts of the internet. For research purposes. No hacks, attacks, or nastiness.

I can't believe nobody's pointed out that Symantec IS FakeAV.

/Only partly joking.

iaazathot: Symantec, Trend Micro, and McAfee are crap and we regularly have to remove them for corruption and just a general lack of protective capability.

I actually excised Trend Micro from my work computer (it's the server version) because it was consuming something like 60% of my processor and 80% of my ram all the time. To remove the client shiat form my computer without having the server info (since I'm not the IT guy) took about two hours of registry editing, rebooting, process killing, etc. Total pain in the ass.

Non-evil Monkey

TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Except sometimes websites are compromised and viruses end up on websites that are 100% legit.

It's relatively rare but it does happen. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a couple of viruses on your computer right now and don't even realize it. Depending on what their purpose is, they might not visibly disrupt your computer at all.

It's not even rare these days, there was a huge one last month (Lilupophilupop) and another huge one last april (LizaMoon).

Moreover, as mentioned earlier by someone else, and ad on the site can own you. Even the more reputable services like google ads are sometimes malicious.

Someone earlier mentioned updating flash/reader. Definitely true. But also make sure your browser, OS, and above all else Java are patched (or if you can get away with it don't install Java at all). Java is by far the most common vulnerable app right now.

one of my customers got the "Microsoft AV 2012 for Windows 7" trojan/virus. after a bit of work I discovered that it replaces explorer.exe, or appends some code to it. ARGH! this soft of thing comes out of automatic pop up adds that are sold to companies who deal with bulk add companies. very frustrating when they get onto a computer.


BTW if you are running Windows and in the Windows directory you find an "Teddybear icon" you should call your tech support people at once. (not a rick roll)

ha-ha-guy: Microsoft Security Essentials and don't be a moron with how you see the UAC controls.

Oh and patch Flash. Basically Adobe is the back door to your computer that was blown off six years ago during a SWAT raid and never fixed. So anyone can wander it. Do what you can, but odds are Flash (or some PDF based exploit, although fewer of them these days) is going to fark you at some point.

That's why I like Chrome. Instead of relying on an Adobe plug in, Flash and PDF support is built into the browser, which not only means that it will auto update with Chrome but the Flash and PDF code is executed inside of the browser sandbox, so anyone trying to exploit a security hole theoretically can't get very far.

I think this link is relevent to the thread

Kaspersky Named Product of the Year (new window)

I use MSE at home and McAfee at work. The home PC I never notice any slowdowns, even while a scan is running in the background. At work, that's a different story. McAfee pretty much kills everything while it's running.

Both still let things through, especially Java exploits, but McAfee is probably the worse of the the two.

All Adobe products are security risks.

NoScript for Firefox, or NotScripts for Chrome. Yeah, they can be a bit of a pain at times, but they go a long way towards stopping drive-by crap, not to mention eliminating the truly annoying ads.

Endrick: Then I install AVG and suddenly the computer runs better. Happy coworkers.

AVG stopped being relevant after version 7.5 from my experience. It now infects web browsers and such.
MSE is best. My friend likes Avira, but I can't stand the popup ad.

iaazathot: hijack this

Couple that with Process Explorer, and that's all I ever use.

I'm fairly diligent about what I do, and keeping occasional tabs on what my system is doing with PE. I see something odd processing when idle, I find out what it is, and google it.

It's very possible for someone who know's their computer to almost never catch anything, and to also remove it(on the odd chance something gets in) within minutes or hours without the use of an automated program(which are ALL buggy and render false positives, as well as miss new ones).

Then again, I don't face book, surf suspicious websites(randomwebsitethathappenstobeeexactlywhatyoutypeintogoogle.com ), look up warez/gamez, but I do use chrome w/ adblock to filter out the random ad on normal websites.

What I want to know is, on a 64 bit windows 7 machine, can a rootkit still infect me?

There was talk about the dll signing or something stopping it but this sort of thing only lasts so long...

StoneColdAtheist: Fark that...gimme Windows Firewall and MSE and I'm good to go.

I forgot...I use AdBlock and Disconnet, too.

dready zim: What I want to know is, on a 64 bit windows 7 machine, can a rootkit still infect me?

There was talk about the dll signing or something stopping it but this sort of thing only lasts so long...

Oh hell yes. Plenty of 32-bit stuff still lurking in Windows x64.

TimeWaste: GWLush: TimeWaste: I haven't had an anti-virus program on my pc in years. If you're not an ass about what links you click, they're a waste.

Good luck with that.

Ehh, I've been doing well for the past six or so years.

Maybe I'm too laid back about it because I've never had to do any online shopping or buy anything online with a CC, and I don't facebook. I guess someone could find out more about me and install some crazy crap that makes me format my computer or even fries my harddrive, but if it's taken six years for that to happen it's been worth it not having my computer bogged down by these programs.

I'm completely aware of the risks, and I still don't care. I'm not saying everyone should be like me (I've made my parents purchase an anti-virus program). But I'm okay with it.

When people ask me what AV program I use, I tell them that I run the "I'm not a moron suite."

But since MSE has been released, I have it running on my home PC. It's a good program, and free... If all else fails, I can format and re-install/restore in a couple hours.

I'll be the first person to admit that I can be careless on the internet at times (Porn sites aren't always the safest places to be). And I'll also confess to being cheap. So I've just always used AVG's free version. It never seems to hog many resources, doesn't need updating too frequently (quite a few updates run in the background anyway, only a few seem to need a system restart) and it doesn't constantly hassle me about security threats. I just have it set up to deal with threats automatically without telling me and to never run a system scan unless I ask it.

But, mistakes still happen and problems still occur. Thats why I always maintain a full backup of any of my important files in duplicate on 2 separate hard drives. That way if I screw up and get a virus that the AV can't deal with, I can wipe and reinstall without loosing anything. Sometimes it pays to prepare for the worst.

/Yes, I have had to wipe and reinstall twice in the 10 years I've been on the net.
//Yes, both viruses seemed to have occured due to my porn browsing
/No, I have no regrets

sprawl15: iaazathot: Symantec, Trend Micro, and McAfee are crap and we regularly have to remove them for corruption and just a general lack of protective capability.

I actually excised Trend Micro from my work computer (it's the server version) because it was consuming something like 60% of my processor and 80% of my ram all the time. To remove the client shiat form my computer without having the server info (since I'm not the IT guy) took about two hours of registry editing, rebooting, process killing, etc. Total pain in the ass.

Your IT department sucks if you had enough access to edit the registry and kill processes. That probably has more to do with how shiatty your computer runs than the AV.

My antivirus software is called "Ubuntu."

madgordy : one of my customers got the "Microsoft AV 2012 for Windows 7" trojan/virus. after a bit of work I discovered that it replaces explorer.exe, or appends some code to it. ARGH! this soft of thing comes out of automatic pop up adds that are sold to companies who deal with bulk add companies. very frustrating when they get onto a computer.

My friend's laptop got infected with that crap last month. Took me an hour to get rid of it. Every time you go to a site, a popup will say "This site has OVER 9000 viruses! Do you want to install our $40 AV program?". Even worse, you will not be allowed to access any AV sites, like CCleaner or Avast.

I hope that whoever made that virus has their penis ripped off by rabid weasels.

dchurch0: sprawl15: iaazathot: Symantec, Trend Micro, and McAfee are crap and we regularly have to remove them for corruption and just a general lack of protective capability.

I actually excised Trend Micro from my work computer (it's the server version) because it was consuming something like 60% of my processor and 80% of my ram all the time. To remove the client shiat form my computer without having the server info (since I'm not the IT guy) took about two hours of registry editing, rebooting, process killing, etc. Total pain in the ass.

Your IT department sucks if you had enough access to edit the registry and kill processes. That probably has more to do with how shiatty your computer runs than the AV.

I have some leeway, since I'm competent enough to know what not to do, so I have almost complete admin rights on my own computer (our IT 'department' is one guy that they call in). I didn't have the password to get into the Trend Micro server to tell it to knock that shiat off, so I had to work around it. PITA, but easier than explaining how an antivirus program could be bad to the people that would need to approve removing it.

Gonna go ahead and cast my vote in with Microsoft Security Essentials.

Fast, free, nonintrusive, and it works.