Elvis_Bogart: Could it be the fact that the Average Woman is as big as a godamn Greyhound bus today?

No, and yes.

Elvis_Bogart: Could it be the fact that the Average Woman is as big as a godamn Greyhound bus today?

True. But the average male looks as if he has a beach ball strapped around his waist.

I'd say the model is pretty average and quite pretty.
Size 12 is the first size to sell out off the rack. I'm tall and wear a 10/12; it looks a bit different on me than on someone 5' 4".

tomasso: Which could mean ...

runway models used to weigh 125 in 1980 when the average woman weighed 136

runway models now weigh 125 when the average woman weighs 162

Perhaps we should not blame our only slim women for the obesity epidemic.

There's slim, and then there's miserably starving.

And then there's photoshop, because apparently even models aren't thin enough.



The actual model for that shot was fired for being too fat. It really is insane, and damaging.

God Is My Co-Pirate: The actual model for that shot was fired for being too fat. It really is insane, and damaging.

Apparently she lost the weight by chopping off her right hand.

FredaDeStilleto: Elvis_Bogart: Could it be the fact that the Average Woman is as big as a godamn Greyhound bus today?

True. But the average male looks as if he has a beach ball strapped around his waist.

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

Don't forget about the moobs

God Is My Co-Pirate: tomasso: Which could mean ...

runway models used to weigh 125 in 1980 when the average woman weighed 136

runway models now weigh 125 when the average woman weighs 162

Perhaps we should not blame our only slim women for the obesity epidemic.

There's slim, and then there's miserably starving.

And then there's photoshop, because apparently even models aren't thin enough.

[i43.tinypic.com image 340x595]

The actual model for that shot was fired for being too fat. It really is insane, and damaging.

That is creepy because it looks like a head on a pike.

Douchebags and gays love what fashion models look like. Some women can meet this ideal, most can't. But most want to be with the douchebags because then they can show off their prize to their friends. So they take drastic measures to try to live up to the ideal only to find out that the douchebags are douchebags. Then they claim "all men are pigs".

And the normal guys are glad the internet was invented so they can have non-stop porn.

GoodyearPimp: Douchebags and gays love what fashion models look like. Some women can meet this ideal, most can't. But most want to be with the douchebags because then they can show off their prize to their friends. So they take drastic measures to try to live up to the ideal only to find out that the douchebags are douchebags. Then they claim "all men are pigs".

And the normal guys are glad the internet was invented so they can have non-stop porn.

You sound like one of those bitter, "nice guys" that want to friend a girl into liking them sexually. Stop doing that. Figure out what attributes the "douchebags" have that attracts women and emulate it. Then you won't be bitter and lonely.

Hint: It's not being a douchebag that attracts -- it's confidence.

AbbeySomeone: Size 12

Whatever the hell that means.

God Is My Co-Pirate: The actual model for that shot was fired for being too fat.

I don't believe that as anything other than the "official statement". Women are rather prominent in the decision-making side of fashion, and women hate women like no other hate. In that context, firing a rail-thin model for being "too fat" makes perfect sense. From the POV of a loony, biatch boss it sounds more professional-sounding than "reminds me of how much I hate myself", even if sane people think it's crazy. Also as a good-bye "fark you", it should crush the model's already fragile self-esteem. I mean, as a form of saying "I hope you die of anorexia and here's joblessness and an insult to make sure it happens" it's about as subtle as a crowbar to the forehead.

Might have something to do with this...

Here is some data.

The mean weight for women aged 20-29 was 141.7lbs in 1988-1994, so a model then would have weighed 130lbs. That went up to 156.5 pounds in 1999-2002, which is in and of itself a ~10% increase over about ten years.

Now, if we assume that the average for models has remained consistent at 130lbs, then the average woman in that age group would nowadays have to weigh about 170 pounds. That's an 8% increase on average since 2002, which doesn't seem very implausible considering the 10% increase the previous decade.

Keep in mind as well that the study could be using population averages rather than just this specific age group. Older women, on average, are even heavier, which means this disparity is even less hard to reach.

In other words: this study is highly suspect. Though I don't doubt there are problems with underweight in the modelling community, the overall problem really seems to be an overweight general population.

ROBO-Jesus: In other words: this study is highly suspect. Though I don't doubt there are problems with underweight in the modelling community, the overall problem really seems to be an overweight general population.

Fashion models are very thin, often underweight. They're basically supposed to look like human clothes hangers to show off the clothing. This isn't any different from 30 years ago, though.

T-Bone42: GoodyearPimp: Douchebags and gays love what fashion models look like. Some women can meet this ideal, most can't. But most want to be with the douchebags because then they can show off their prize to their friends. So they take drastic measures to try to live up to the ideal only to find out that the douchebags are douchebags. Then they claim "all men are pigs".

And the normal guys are glad the internet was invented so they can have non-stop porn.

You sound like one of those bitter, "nice guys" that want to friend a girl into liking them sexually. Stop doing that. Figure out what attributes the "douchebags" have that attracts women and emulate it. Then you won't be bitter and lonely.

Hint: It's not being a douchebag that attracts -- it's confidence.

No, it's being a douchebag. Women just say they like confidence because they don't want to admit they're attracted to douchebags.

And really, it doesn't matter how you act toward a woman. If she's decided she'll sleep with you, you can be a total jerk and she'll still do it (while thinking to herself that she can change you). Whereas if she's decided that she won't sleep with you, you can be the nicest guy in the world and you still won't get laid.

Women are just plain fat these days.

Fat chicks, I couldn't care less than Marilyn Monroe was a size 12. I do care that Marylin Monroe had a 23 inch waist.

/fat chicks ignore Sir Mix-A-Lot's "itty bitty waist" line like the NRA ignores the Militia Clause of the 2nd Amendment
//pro-gun

Even with the population getting a little bigger and/or older and skewing the numbers, I still find most models kind of gross. Too skinny and boyish looking.

Take most of these models and add 5-15 pounds, and now we're talking forgot-what-I-was-going-to-say-and-can-only-drool beautiful.

Dated a super-skinny model type once (seriously--the next girlfriend, who later became my wife, met the "model", and agrees she was hot) and didn't like it. Too boney and like hugging the proverbial bag of antlers.

/Just sayin'

T-Bone42: GoodyearPimp: Douchebags and gays love what fashion models look like. Some women can meet this ideal, most can't. But most want to be with the douchebags because then they can show off their prize to their friends. So they take drastic measures to try to live up to the ideal only to find out that the douchebags are douchebags. Then they claim "all men are pigs".

And the normal guys are glad the internet was invented so they can have non-stop porn.

You sound like one of those bitter, "nice guys" that want to friend a girl into liking them sexually. Stop doing that. Figure out what attributes the "douchebags" have that attracts women and emulate it. Then you won't be bitter and lonely.

Hint: It's not being a douchebag that attracts -- it's confidence.


The problems is that most girls can't tell the difference between d-bagginess and confidence...

Eat healthy. Unless you are poor, its not that difficult.

quoinguy: Take most of these models and add 5-15 pounds, and now we're talking forgot-what-I-was-going-to-say-and-can-only-drool beautiful.

Be careful what you wish for. As reference, I'll take Old Kate over New Kate.

doglover: Elvis_Bogart: Could it be the fact that the Average Woman is as big as a godamn Greyhound bus today?

Yeah in Tokyo I've met working models who are actually just a little fatter than the norm.

Though in Tokyo (and Hong Kong, etc), women tend to be super skinny as a matter of course.

I had a friend in college from Hong Kong who was pretty slim, but she was up 5-10lbs from when she was living in HK and got crap from her relatives all the time for turning into a fat American.

That said, this just sounds like pearl clutching to me.

beta_plus: /fat chicks ignore Sir Mix-A-Lot's "itty bitty waist" line like the NRA ignores the Militia Clause of the 2nd Amendment

And yet..."36-24-36? Only if she's 5'2''" is also ignored.

Elvis_Bogart: Could it be the fact that the Average Woman is as big as a godamn Greyhound bus today?

I see my thoughts of this have already been covered.

So I'll just add this: I like rice.

Lou Brown: quoinguy: Take most of these models and add 5-15 pounds, and now we're talking forgot-what-I-was-going-to-say-and-can-only-drool beautiful.

Be careful what you wish for. As reference, I'll take Old Kate over New Kate.


Your examples proved a few things:

1. She looked healthy to start with--not a bag of antlers.
2. She was still hot with a couple of pounds--not fat.
3. I said "most"--she was normal to start with.

All I'm saying is a chickie needs to look like a chickie--with boobs and hips.

Kuroshin: So far, the "Kidz" section stuff fits, but there's something wrong with a grown woman wearing Dora.

I know you didn't just slam Dora.

God Is My Co-Pirate: tomasso: Which could mean ...

runway models used to weigh 125 in 1980 when the average woman weighed 136

runway models now weigh 125 when the average woman weighs 162

Perhaps we should not blame our only slim women for the obesity epidemic.

There's slim, and then there's miserably starving.

And then there's photoshop, because apparently even models aren't thin enough.

[i43.tinypic.com image 340x595]

The actual model for that shot was fired for being too fat. It really is insane, and damaging.

Now I know where the inspiration for Jack Skellington came from.

mrtoadswildride: T-Bone42: GoodyearPimp: Douchebags and gays love what fashion models look like. Some women can meet this ideal, most can't. But most want to be with the douchebags because then they can show off their prize to their friends. So they take drastic measures to try to live up to the ideal only to find out that the douchebags are douchebags. Then they claim "all men are pigs".

And the normal guys are glad the internet was invented so they can have non-stop porn.

You sound like one of those bitter, "nice guys" that want to friend a girl into liking them sexually. Stop doing that. Figure out what attributes the "douchebags" have that attracts women and emulate it. Then you won't be bitter and lonely.

Hint: It's not being a douchebag that attracts -- it's confidence.


The problems is that most girls can't tell the difference between d-bagginess and confidence...

Quit talking to them like they're women and talk to them like they're people. Chicks dig that.

I would, but I'd want her to lose some weight, too. Preferably I'd join in and do so as well - nothing like motivation

Given that the average woman is overweight - I don't have a problem with this.

Look - nobody wants to look at normal. If I want 'normal' I'll go outside and play football in the park. I want to see the best. I want to see professional athletes. I want to see the best movies with the best super stars. I don't want crappy college drama majors doing a production of something. I'm not going to buy a magazine that tells me how to get 'average looking' abs. I want great abs.

I want to see the best.
I want to aspire to be (but without putting forth any effort) the best.

And I represent most of the public (men and women).

Women buy magazines and products sold by attractive women. Attractive represents what women think is attractive. Same with men. I'm not going to pay money for a bunch of chubby, unkept, middle aged women laying around an average house, looking average and naked. I want to see the best. I want the fantasy.

And everyone is okay with this - except when it comes to the physical appearance of women.

If a kid loves basketball, we tell him about Michael Jordan and hang a poster in his bedroom. He can aspire to be THE BEST. We don't give him a lecture on how most people are not like MJ. Most people are not good at basketball. Most people can't dunk. We don't say, 'Don't practice, because you probably won't be like Mike. Learn to accept yourself, for who you are. Don't work hard to live up to UNOBTAINABLE (even though MJ obtained it) levels of awesomeness. Just give up, and eat a Big Mac. Because that's average'

"No food tastes as good as skinny feels"

Being formerly fat (45 lbs overweight) to now jacked and lean (through intense exercise and strict diet), I can say that despite being ridiculed for this statement, Kate Moss was onto something.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Given that the average woman is overweight - I don't have a problem with this.

Look - nobody wants to look at normal. If I want 'normal' I'll go outside and play football in the park. I want to see the best. I want to see professional athletes. I want to see the best movies with the best super stars. I don't want crappy college drama majors doing a production of something. I'm not going to buy a magazine that tells me how to get 'average looking' abs. I want great abs.

I want to see the best.
I want to aspire to be (but without putting forth any effort) the best.

And I represent most of the public (men and women).

Women buy magazines and products sold by attractive women. Attractive represents what women think is attractive. Same with men. I'm not going to pay money for a bunch of chubby, unkept, middle aged women laying around an average house, looking average and naked. I want to see the best. I want the fantasy.

And everyone is okay with this - except when it comes to the physical appearance of women.

If a kid loves basketball, we tell him about Michael Jordan and hang a poster in his bedroom. He can aspire to be THE BEST. We don't give him a lecture on how most people are not like MJ. Most people are not good at basketball. Most people can't dunk. We don't say, 'Don't practice, because you probably won't be like Mike. Learn to accept yourself, for who you are. Don't work hard to live up to UNOBTAINABLE (even though MJ obtained it) levels of awesomeness. Just give up, and eat a Big Mac. Because that's average'

With all of the participation trophies and stupid crap these days, I'd imagine we aren't too far off from exactly what you described.

This thread is making me hungry.

This is frustrating.

On the one hand, I agree that the media fixation on women who are starved and 20 lbs underweight all their lives creates unhealthy expectations. Photoshopping doesn't help at all. It ought to be made illegal or at least require a damn warning.

At the same time, so many people are overweight and still unhealthy. My fiancee has body image issues, and she despises the fashion industry for fixating on fantasies. She's not particularly fat, but she has love handles and a soft belly. I think she's at the upper end of the 'normal' range for BMI. But she doesn't work out much, and it shows. I can't even have a conversation with her about weight loss without getting screamed at. Considering her mom and sisters are genuinely fat, I don't see good things in store for her, future-wise.

I've come to the conclusion that the media has simply poisoned the well for both sides, making everyone unhappy with what they can't have.

IlGreven: "36-24-36? Only if she's 5'23''"

For shame.

If enough people demanded magazines that showed normal size models than the fashion magazines would have to adapt. As much as a small minority decry the behavior of the industry, there's an overwhelming majority of people who gobble it up.

Might also help if women stopped asking gay men what straight men find attractive.

We don't care about how clothes look on you. We care about the girl underneath the clothes.