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(Jacksonville.com)   Sir, you've been in an accident and skinned your knee, so we're rushing you to the emergency room. IT'S THE LAW   (jacksonville.com) divider line 121
    More: Florida, family physician, profit center, Insurance Information Institute, personal injury, emergency rooms, subcommittee, medical bills, Tampa Bay Area  
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14773 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2012 at 6:16 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-12 12:25:05 AM
fattrailrunner.com
 
2012-01-12 12:42:58 AM
Step 1: Require everyone to buy health insurance from private, for-profit companies
Step 2: Require all accident victims to go to the hospital
Step 3: PROFIT!


Sweet, we found step 2!
 
2012-01-12 12:51:58 AM
Florida. Once again leading the nation in stupid.
 
2012-01-12 01:00:40 AM
This only applies to car crashes I think. It was hard to tell from TFA.
 
2012-01-12 01:12:38 AM
Aside from the fact that it requires the person to be seen within 72 hours of an accident in either an ER or a hospital clinic in order to receive PIP benefits, subby's headline is completely accurate.
 
2012-01-12 01:13:55 AM
i41.tinypic.com
 
2012-01-12 01:35:17 AM

SchlingFocker: Aside from the fact that it requires the person to be seen within 72 hours of an accident in either an ER or a hospital clinic in order to receive PIP benefits, subby's headline is completely accurate.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2012-01-12 01:45:27 AM
Oh, just swell. Add to this that Gov. Lex Luthor's administration is also trying to convert all state financed hospitals to for profits, the citizens of Florida are getting set up to be screwed over doubly.
 
2012-01-12 02:08:44 AM
Shame - if only you people didn't see con-dollars at every opportunity, you wouldn't need laws like this. Ever shamier, it's coming to the UK too. Ooh, I have been slightly hurt by another person - ok, it won't hamper my life at all, but still give me money.
Rotten people need rotten systems. Live with it, or choose honesty instead. Tough choice.
 
2012-01-12 03:22:24 AM
But over the years, fraudsters have turned Florida into the top state for staged accidents, particularly in the Miami-Dade and Tampa areas. Some racketeers have even turned it into a profit center, reports show.

The Insurance Information Institute predicted that PIP fraud could approach $1 billion in the state this year, and those costs are passed on to customers through increased premiums. In some sections of South Florida and the Tampa Bay area, that can mean hundreds of extra dollars per year.


Florida: the Mos Eisley of America.
 
2012-01-12 03:45:54 AM
We're from the government. We're here to help
 
2012-01-12 06:20:17 AM
Weird. I thought one of the primary reasons Republicans hated Obamacare (besides the plain fact that it's Obamacare -- well, that's enough right there!) was that it allegedly limited people's choices for medical treatment. Curious that.


cman: We're from the government. We're here to help


I know -- you hate ALL government. So vote Republican. Preach it, babe.
 
2012-01-12 06:31:06 AM
yea its a stupid law, but it is in response to fraud connected with another stupid law, which provided that a driver's insurance company pay up to $10,000 to cover medical bills and lost wages after an accident -- no matter who is at fault..

They are going with the "two dumb laws make a good law" rule. If you don't intend to file for PIP, its all good.
 
2012-01-12 06:31:22 AM
Rather than amend the existing laws, we'll just create new ones. That's one of the biggest problems with our Constitution; it's far easier to enact new laws than to fix or remove the offending ones.
 
2012-01-12 06:33:49 AM
in that case, lawsuits for battery and kidnapping will SKYROCKET in that state... This is ridiculous. even "simple" things like clearing the C-Spine are all based on patient reaction - and a patient very well may not react to certain things until after the adrenaline rush passes - who's to say that's going to be 3 days? all those OLD people down there won't feel shiat for a WEEK.... hogwash and bull-honkie....

\alert and oriented x 3 is good enough for me. you're free to go if you want.
\\glad to NOT be in Florida...
 
2012-01-12 06:36:31 AM

BostonEMT: a patient very well may not react to certain things until after the adrenaline rush passes


How long does that take?
 
2012-01-12 06:36:55 AM
I vaguely recall some place way east (hong kong?) having a similar law.
Something to do with the system demanding a full fledged doctor making the decision about whether you're ok or not.
It's all about the liabilities, probably.

DrBenway: Weird. I thought one of the primary reasons Republicans hated Obamacare (besides the plain fact that it's Obamacare -- well, that's enough right there!) was that it allegedly limited people's choices for medical treatment. Curious that.


cman: We're from the government. We're here to help

I know -- you hate ALL government. So vote Republican. Preach it, babe.


That's why I vote democrat. It's the only choice!

/pusher robot, shover robot, same staircase.
 
2012-01-12 06:39:19 AM
So Florida is introducing NASCAR rules?
 
2012-01-12 06:39:55 AM

doglover: BostonEMT: a patient very well may not react to certain things until after the adrenaline rush passes

How long does that take?


different people react differently. It may take you an hour or two (depending on the severity of the MVA), but may take someone else a few days or longer. Also, people ALWAYS have some apprehension / reaction when the get behind the wheel for the first time after a car accident - This could also release an adrenaline boost... again, still related to the initial MVA.
 
2012-01-12 06:40:40 AM

BostonEMT: in that case, lawsuits for battery and kidnapping will SKYROCKET in that state...


Just an FYI, the headline doesn't match the article or law in any way.

They aren't forcing transport from the scene to the ED.
 
2012-01-12 06:42:12 AM

BostonEMT: \alert and oriented x 3 is good enough for me. you're free to go if you want.


This is my attitude, as well.

/"Sir, I recommend you keep your c-collar on and stay on the backboard until the doctor can clear you. If you choose to remove it yourself, that is your choice and against my advice."
 
2012-01-12 06:42:29 AM

BostonEMT: It may take you an hour or two


I always thought it cleared in a few minutes. Neat.
 
2012-01-12 06:49:24 AM

SchlingFocker: BostonEMT: in that case, lawsuits for battery and kidnapping will SKYROCKET in that state...

Just an FYI, the headline doesn't match the article or law in any way.

They aren't forcing transport from the scene to the ED.


true - but they are REQUIRING you to be seen at the ED/PCP within 3 days. What about people with co-morbid conditions that are fully-dosed to the gills on meds (due to other acute/chronic conditions)? a bone cancer patient in a fender bender may not notice anything that they think is related to the MVA within 3 days due to all the pain mads they're currently on...

\that reminds me, people do not LICK a fentanyl patch...
 
2012-01-12 06:52:34 AM
God, I love this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Ad5FRtSTw (new window)
 
2012-01-12 06:53:12 AM

BostonEMT: true - but they are REQUIRING you to be seen at the ED/PCP within 3 days.


Only if you are planning on using the PIP.

If you aren't planning on it, you don't need to go to the ED or your PCP.
 
2012-01-12 06:56:40 AM
I wear a dog-tag with the inscription "I have insurance. "DON'T TAKE ME TO SHANDS!"

/our local welfare hospital
//hopefully, it will never be necessary
 
2012-01-12 07:02:08 AM

SchlingFocker: BostonEMT: true - but they are REQUIRING you to be seen at the ED/PCP within 3 days.

Only if you are planning on using the PIP.

If you aren't planning on it, you don't need to go to the ED or your PCP.


well then you've just given up you're right to "just compensation" based on injury/loss of income caused by the accident/incident. As PIP is a requirement in FL (http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html) everyone already has to have it (legally, anyway). This bill is requiring people to "use it or lose it". The only other way to get compensation is then through the civil court system which takes time and may not allow the person who couldn't otherwise afford treatment, to get the treatment they need to fix the problem caused by someone's carelessness...

What this really does it put a "statute of limitations" on people who caused injury to others.
 
2012-01-12 07:03:37 AM

BostonEMT: doglover: BostonEMT: a patient very well may not react to certain things until after the adrenaline rush passes

How long does that take?

different people react differently. It may take you an hour or two (depending on the severity of the MVA), but may take someone else a few days or longer. Also, people ALWAYS have some apprehension / reaction when the get behind the wheel for the first time after a car accident - This could also release an adrenaline boost... again, still related to the initial MVA.


Huh, guess I don't hang out with them more than 15-20 min. And yeah, usually they start feeling more sore towards the end of the run.

But that's pain. And no shiat, you're gonna be sore, you've just been in a major car accident! But I have never seen, nor do I know of anyone who has ever seen a patient with intact neuros on arrival; who has lost them later on.

Pretty sure there's been several studies that show almost no difference in outcomes between the US, where we C-spine the bejesus out of everyone, and 3rd World hellholes like Jamaica, where they just toss you in the back of the nearest shockless pickup truck and haul balls through mountainous terrain over roads that are so bad; they've graduated from potholes to cauldronholes.

It's just a stupid ritual our little tribe does, in an attempt to ward off the Liability Demons. A rain dance to keep lawyers away.

And don't get me started on the goddamn KED board...
 
2012-01-12 07:10:35 AM

davidphogan: This only applies to car crashes I think. It was hard to tell from TFA.


It only applies to car accidents, and only if you plan to file a claim under your insurance policy's PIP provisions--which are HUGE targets for insurance fraud.
 
2012-01-12 07:11:01 AM

werekoala:
It's just a stupid ritual our little tribe does, in an attempt to ward off the Liability Demons. A rain dance to keep lawyers away.

And don't get me started on the goddamn KED board...


mostly yes, but i can't begin to tell you the amount of calls I've had where the person only complained of a "stiff neck" or "soreness" and it turned out to be a cracked vertebrae. though I've not seen any cervical subluxations - that lived anyway...

\I actually like the KED... except the legs straps... awkward...
 
2012-01-12 07:13:58 AM
no arrow jokes?
 
2012-01-12 07:15:25 AM
Last time I was in a car accident it was recommended that we go to the hospital to get checked out just in case. It's both precautionary and for insurance purposes. You may not be aware of any injury you my have had (concussion, etc) and for insurance it's required if you are making any sort of injury claim (iirc).

Still not mandatory. I didn't go - but my friend did.

Welcome to Canada.

I don't think it's ever a bad idea, but if people don't want to go, then they should be able to say "no". That being said, they should also not be able to later make ridiculous injury claims.
 
2012-01-12 07:21:03 AM

moviemarketing: no arrow jokes?


I was writing an arrow joke, then I took a sidewalk to the knee.
 
2012-01-12 07:21:48 AM

Cybernetic: davidphogan: This only applies to car crashes I think. It was hard to tell from TFA.

It only applies to car accidents, and only if you plan to file a claim under your insurance policy's PIP provisions--which are HUGE targets for insurance fraud.


So then, you have to do all your planning in the first 72 hours after the accident?
 
2012-01-12 07:23:55 AM
Patient: The hosptial didn't catch my brain tumor when i went in after a crash, I'm suing them for $50 billion

Hospital: Ok, everyone that comes in gets checked for every possible health condition and billed for the costs

Patient: Why is my bill 100k? I only came in with a bruise on my knee fro the wreck. OUTRAGE, SOCIALIZE HEALTH CARE
 
2012-01-12 07:25:28 AM

Friskya: I wear a dog-tag with the inscription "I have insurance. "DON'T TAKE ME TO SHANDS!"

/our local welfare hospital
//hopefully, it will never be necessary


I'd rather go to Shands than Memorial......
 
2012-01-12 07:28:48 AM

werekoala:

...But I have never seen, nor do I know of anyone who has ever seen a patient with intact neuros on arrival; who has lost them later on.


you've never seen a TBI/brain bleed/stroke or TIA after an accident? herniation? (granted, herniation is the last of the signs), but i've seen people talking - no quite alert, but talking - right before they shiat the bed.

\hyperventilate that biatch!!!!!
\\dual 16s WAO!!
 
2012-01-12 07:31:23 AM
TFA: PIP fraud "is a tax on every car driver in Florida," he told the subcommittee. "It's time to put money back in constituents' pockets."

Gad, they're not even trying to hide who their constituents are anymore.
 
2012-01-12 07:32:27 AM
Florida, you so crazy.
 
2012-01-12 07:32:36 AM

werekoala: Pretty sure there's been several studies that show almost no difference in outcomes between the US, where we C-spine the bejesus out of everyone, and 3rd World hellholes like Jamaica, where they just toss you in the back of the nearest shockless pickup truck and haul balls through mountainous terrain over roads that are so bad; they've graduated from potholes to cauldronholes.

It's just a stupid ritual our little tribe does, in an attempt to ward off the Liability Demons. A rain dance to keep lawyers away.

And don't get me started on the goddamn KED board...


It's an effective "rain dance" if scummy lawyers can't claim that their client's sudden and mysterious back pain was due to being mishandled. I bet that Jamaica doesn't have as many malpractice suits.
 
ows
2012-01-12 07:33:12 AM
1-800-AX-GARY
 
2012-01-12 07:34:05 AM

BostonEMT: werekoala:
It's just a stupid ritual our little tribe does, in an attempt to ward off the Liability Demons. A rain dance to keep lawyers away.

And don't get me started on the goddamn KED board...

mostly yes, but i can't begin to tell you the amount of calls I've had where the person only complained of a "stiff neck" or "soreness" and it turned out to be a cracked vertebrae. though I've not seen any cervical subluxations - that lived anyway...

\I actually like the KED... except the legs straps... awkward...


No, I get that. I've seen it too. Its just that when a patient is up walking around after a wreck, if being in a major car accident didn't do it, I have a hard time believing that walking over to the cot, sitting down, and resting quietly on the ride in is gonna paralyse you...

As for the KED board, the only use I've ever seen that makes a lick of sense, is as a way to lift a patient from above, after cutting the car roof off.

But 99% of the time I'm threading its straps through the fat rolls of some slack-faced secretary crammed into a GEO Metro, who sees this as her chance to get on the Lortab and disability gravy train.
 
2012-01-12 07:39:54 AM

Gdalescrboz: Patient: The hosptial didn't catch my brain tumor when i went in after a crash, I'm suing them for $50 billion

Hospital: Ok, everyone that comes in gets checked for every possible health condition and billed for the costs

Patient: Why is my bill 100k? I only came in with a bruise on my knee fro the wreck. OUTRAGE, SOCIALIZE HEALTH CARE


As imagined scenarios to support a particular viewpoint go, this is a particularly "special" one. Nice "Everyone's a winner!" t-shirt you're wearing, by the way.
 
2012-01-12 07:43:16 AM

doglover: BostonEMT: a patient very well may not react to certain things until after the adrenaline rush passes

How long does that take?


It depends. How long do I have to file a claim?
 
2012-01-12 07:43:19 AM

BostonEMT: SchlingFocker: BostonEMT: true - but they are REQUIRING you to be seen at the ED/PCP within 3 days.

Only if you are planning on using the PIP.

If you aren't planning on it, you don't need to go to the ED or your PCP.

well then you've just given up you're right to "just compensation" based on injury/loss of income caused by the accident/incident. As PIP is a requirement in FL (http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html) everyone already has to have it (legally, anyway). This bill is requiring people to "use it or lose it". The only other way to get compensation is then through the civil court system which takes time and may not allow the person who couldn't otherwise afford treatment, to get the treatment they need to fix the problem caused by someone's carelessness...

What this really does it put a "statute of limitations" on people who caused injury to others.


Wouldn't it be more straight-forward to amend the 'refusal of treatment/transport' forms to include an acknowledgement of a 72-hour window, instead of making some new statutory 'requirement'?

I know... crazy talk.
 
2012-01-12 08:01:13 AM
In Florida if you are in an auto accident you are mandated to use your PIP for insurance coverage. Your regular medical insurance will refuse to pay any cost related to auto accidents because you are required to have PIP, which pays for auto insurance issues. If you are denied PIP coverage you could have an uninsurable medical issue, yay.
 
2012-01-12 08:08:18 AM

werekoala: BostonEMT: werekoala:
It's just a stupid ritual our little tribe does, in an attempt to ward off the Liability Demons. A rain dance to keep lawyers away.

And don't get me started on the goddamn KED board...

mostly yes, but i can't begin to tell you the amount of calls I've had where the person only complained of a "stiff neck" or "soreness" and it turned out to be a cracked vertebrae. though I've not seen any cervical subluxations - that lived anyway...

\I actually like the KED... except the legs straps... awkward...

No, I get that. I've seen it too. Its just that when a patient is up walking around after a wreck, if being in a major car accident didn't do it, I have a hard time believing that walking over to the cot, sitting down, and resting quietly on the ride in is gonna paralyse you...

As for the KED board, the only use I've ever seen that makes a lick of sense, is as a way to lift a patient from above, after cutting the car roof off.

But 99% of the time I'm threading its straps through the fat rolls of some slack-faced secretary crammed into a GEO Metro, who sees this as her chance to get on the Lortab and disability gravy train.


KEDs board are great when you actually need to worry about c-spine.

But what they are best for: Grab two and have people put them on. Then they fight and the first one to get knocked over looses.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-01-12 08:09:13 AM
In Massachusetts we handled fraud as a crime problem, not a law problem.. Prosecutors put drivers, chiropractors, and even lawyers in jail for fraud. Statistically, Lawrence is a much safer hellhole than it was ten years ago. Most of the accidents there used to be insurance fraud.
 
2012-01-12 08:11:48 AM

davidphogan: This only applies to car crashes I think. It was hard to tell from TFA.


And only for car crashed in which you may at some future point wish to file a claim against somebodies PIP policy.
 
2012-01-12 08:21:11 AM

ows: 1-800-AX-GARY


Don't be scurred.
 
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