Why didn't they claim to be Witnesses or Christian Scientists?

skullkrusher: no, but it is quite close to the price of going to the doctor to make sure your 8 year old isn't dying, isn't it?


And then what?

"I'm sorry, your son has Hodgkin's lymphoma. The first treatment is $13,500 and you have to meet the first $4,000 out of pocket and then 20% of the remainder."

Well, I guess we could sell the pitbull and the '96 Dodge...

This is why it's important to get consumers more involved in their health care decisions. Because they'll make good choices and crap.

At least the parents will get free medical care while in prison!

Why Would I Read the Article: Junzi Nicuzn: FTA: attempted involuntary manslaughter

How can a crime be both attempted and involuntary?

As a recipient of the Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry, I can assure you that those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

When I originally typed the text of my question it posed, "How can something..."

Then I realized someone would come up with some reach-around logic to actually answer that question, so I changed the wording for accuracy. On reflection, the kid is dead, so how is this attempted at all?

pwhp_67: The parents of an 8-year-old Ohio boy who died of cancer in 2008 have pleaded guilty to attempted involuntary manslaughter in his death.

Monica Hussing, 37, and William Robinson Sr., 40, face up to eight years in prison each; sentencing is scheduled for February 16.

"They thought the kid had swollen glands," John Luskin, Hussing's Cleveland-based attorney, told CNN on Tuesday.

From time to time, the boy's parents would notice a lump on his neck, but it would come and go and did not appear to bother him, Luskin said.

The parents never sought a diagnosis for their son, William, who was suffering from Hodgkin's lymphoma, CNN affiliate WJW reported.

They did not have much money, struggled to make ends meet and "were doing the best they could," Luskin said.



So the next time an insurance company denies treatment for somebody who has been diagnosed, we will see the CEO brought up on manslaughter charges? Cool!

Don't be silly; insurance companies aren't *that* type of person.

skullkrusher: pwhp_67: And then what?

they didn't even bother to get to that point. But I would say the "then what" is getting SCHIP to pay for your child's treatment and he'd probably still be alive today. How's that?


You mean, getting SCHIP to pay if they qualify. For a lot of people, that "if" ain't happening.

Anyway, I'm more interested in how insurance companies get away with denying treatment for people who have already been diagnosed but these parents are going to jail for not treating something they didn't know about. Now, you can go on about how they should have known; but still. How many families out there right now are going without treatment because they can't afford it and the insurance company has denied it? Why aren't they going to jail?

Oh yeah, because those are rich farks who are above the law. And capitalism! And socialism!

Persnickety: watson.t.hamster: mytdawg:
I don't see where they actually made any claims, they pleaded guilty and most of the story is other people making claims for and/or about them. Just a brutal topic in general, it's fun like politics but then you get to color it even more with the experiences you've seen in your own life. Most of us have never kissed a lobbyist ass but more than a few have seen someone go through hell and die regardless.

If they'd gone bankrupt trying to care for their kid I'd feel for them.

Really? No sympathy until then? You do realize that most lumps in your body turn out not to be cancers, right? Why put yourself in the poor house over a very small possibility?

Yes, I have no sympathy for people who made no effort to help their child as he died in front of them.

You do? That says a lot about you, nothing good.



Instead they neglected him and he died despite the existing of programs to cover.this.exact.situation.

which I only just learned about by reading this thread. What are the odds these parents knew about it? I've taken my kids to pediatricians for years and whenever I grumbled about costs, I was never once told of such a program. The basic assumption that most people make about health care being expensive is the right one.

Anyone who is unaware that assistance exists should you be unable to feed/clothe/care for your kid should probably not have a kid.

Are you saying that if you couldn't afford a medical visit for your kid you'd make no effort to find a way to make it happen?


I have no sympathy for them and this doesn't say anything about our healthcare system. Instead it's just a case of terrible people being terrible parents.

I know this is Fark, Where Parents Are Always WrongTM, but come on. It must be nice to live in a completely black and white world.

Some things are black and white. Like killing your kid = wrong. That's pretty straightforward.

Again, had they tried and been unable to find care I would be sympathetic. Instead they made no effort to help their kid.

This is an important fact you seemed to have missed out on.

LeafyGreens: Diogenes: Choosing to live is an elective procedurea pre-existing condition. terminal

Junzi Nicuzn: Why Would I Read the Article: Junzi Nicuzn: FTA: attempted involuntary manslaughter

How can a crime be both attempted and involuntary?

As a recipient of the Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry, I can assure you that those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

When I originally typed the text of my question it posed, "How can something..."

Then I realized someone would come up with some reach-around logic to actually answer that question, so I changed the wording for accuracy. On reflection, the kid is dead, so how is this attempted at all?

I often "involuntarily" attempt to stick my junk in my girlfriends pooper at night while I am "sleeping".

jst3p: They moved to Cleveland three weeks before Willie died. His siblings, now ages 15, 13, 8, 7 and 5, were also not going to school or getting medical care.

Wow, sounds like they were going to need a lot of pianos.

[img214.imageshack.us image 640x478]

Oh look it's finally catching on. No, wait, that's still only you trying to force that meme.

I move to deem this as "meme-rape" for trying to force your crap meme onto us.

/Meme-Rapist

ginandbacon: skullkrusher: pwhp_67: And then what?

they didn't even bother to get to that point. But I would say the "then what" is getting SCHIP to pay for your child's treatment and he'd probably still be alive today. How's that?

Works for me.


But apparently not to most of FARK - who constantly piss and moan about supporting these programs via tax dollars...

ALL STATES ALL OF THEM--have Health care for kids. Some even dentistry. Ignorance of the system caused a death of a child. The system did not fail the parents did.

pwhp_67: ginandbacon: skullkrusher: pwhp_67: And then what?

they didn't even bother to get to that point. But I would say the "then what" is getting SCHIP to pay for your child's treatment and he'd probably still be alive today. How's that?

Works for me.


But apparently not to most of FARK - who constantly piss and moan about supporting these programs via tax dollars...

And what do the opinion of farkers have to do with anything? Those programs still exist so they had that option. Why are all of you pro-UHC'ers having such a difficult time admitting so?

Ignoring them doesn't make your argument any stronger.

ginandbacon: Madbassist1: But cost NEVER applies with children. Medicaid will always cover minors. You may not get all the bells and whistles or the latest asthma inhaler, but we do cover kids at least in this country. There is NO EXCUSE for what these parents did and that article was pathetic.

That is too simplistic a view -- the medical care will still bankrupt you whether Medicaid is involved or not. The issue is especially pronounced for people who are not totally poor -- they have to use up their resources BEFORE the Medicaid can really kick in. So yes these guys had messed up priorities and could have saved the kid, but you can't just say it like they had "free" health care available either. They could have got treatment for their kid, but also would have lost everything. Looks like they'll lose everything anyway, but just saying that it is not a totally simple decision.

Basically they would have to sell everything they own, then claim hardship to get Medicaid, then claim bankruptcy and try to rebuild.

Madbassist1: Gulper Eel: Whether you hire a mover or DIY it, it should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer that there is a financial cost involved moving your entire household from point A to point B.

Sure, but thousands in deposits and costs? Not hardly unless you're moving coast to coast. More evidence the ass didnt know what he was talking about.

Sweetie (see, I can call names, too!), I've moved around plenty. Almost everywhere requires first and last month's rent, plus a security deposit (usually in the amount of a month's rent) just to move in. Unless you're moving into a cardboard box, that could be almost (or more than) two grand alone. Since I don't own a truck or a trailer and furniture won't fit into my Grand Am, I needed to rent one. That was about two hundred. Many utility companies require deposits, as well, which, when combined, can be in the hundreds. Some places also make you pay for your parking space, either as a one-time payment or monthly.

And depending on your physical health, you may need to hire movers if you're unable to do any heavy lifting. I don't know how much they cost, as I haven't moved since becoming disabled, but I'm sure they're not cheap, either.

Just because you're bad at math doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

/I'm also female, BTW

I don't know why this is the first thing I thought of



© oh yeah, painless and hot

"We did not know it was cancer," she said. "We tried and tried to get help and were denied every time," said the daughter, who's 18.


http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/nation-world-news/ohio-parents-ad m it-denying-ailing-son-medical-care-1311107.html

Madbassist1: more info (new window)

Something stinks here, and it isnt just the parents

Yeah, something just doesn't add up. Methinks mom might be developmentally delayed or something.

If you have to decide between seeing a doctor about melanoma or putting your daughters in private school since the public schools are gang-invest drug houses, just make sure you choose right. Otherwise, the melanoma will choose for you.

They made good money. Just not good enough.

ginandbacon: Also, I really hope that if any parent who is struggling right now with the insane cost of insurance is reading this thread, please know that you may easily qualify to have your children covered. Medicaid and CHIP exist to keep your child safe and healthy. It's one of those benefits, along with SNAP and TANF that gives back way more than it costs. Please contact your DHS Dept. and ask for assistance. If you get any flack, contact your state Representative or City Councilor. Your kids have a right to decent health care and it's available.
EIP if you have any questions.

shiat. I had my son on the state kiddie healthcare for one year. We never used it, and the next year they cut him off. Reason--I made too much money. I made the same amount I'd made the year before--under $20,000. So I bet that happens just as often as not, too.

DRTFT and I'm in a pissy mood anyway, since I was just discussing this sort of thing with someone, but I'm about as likely to let anyone have access to my personal info now as I am to start making $100,000 a year. Fark those people and their little power trips anyway.

Headso: Does this mean insurance companies who deny claims can be charged with "Attempted involuntary manslaughter"?

Companies and corporations , have the same rights as individuals, not the same reponsibilities.

altinos: mytdawg: They figure out how to be paid by garnishing everything the rest of your life, taking your house and driving you into bankruptcy.

My kids are worth it.

Well it's good you can brag about it, but all the same , mine aren't

baggins2000: altinos: mytdawg: They figure out how to be paid by garnishing everything the rest of your life, taking your house and driving you into bankruptcy.

My kids are worth it.

Well it's good you can brag about it, but all the same , mine aren't

You can keep a house and stop garnishments in bankruptcy. Medical debt is pretty easy to get dismissed. You don't know what you are talking about.

When I went to public school the school provided physicals every year and some years they were mandatory. That might have at least caught the problem and gotten attention.

Of course, giving kids free check ups is probably socialism.

mytdawg: They figure out how to be paid by garnishing everything the rest of your life, taking your house and driving you into bankruptcy. They guilt you into treatments you can't afford then treat you like a pariah when you can't pay. And god forbid you just want to get it over with and end the suffering. THAT'S immoral.

You know how I know you don't work in an ER??

watson.t.hamster: Persnickety: watson.t.hamster: mytdawg:
I don't see where they actually made any claims, they pleaded guilty and most of the story is other people making claims for and/or about them. Just a brutal topic in general, it's fun like politics but then you get to color it even more with the experiences you've seen in your own life. Most of us have never kissed a lobbyist ass but more than a few have seen someone go through hell and die regardless.

If they'd gone bankrupt trying to care for their kid I'd feel for them.

Really? No sympathy until then? You do realize that most lumps in your body turn out not to be cancers, right? Why put yourself in the poor house over a very small possibility?

Yes, I have no sympathy for people who made no effort to help their child as he died in front of them.

How do you know they made no effort at all? And besides even doctors will tell you most of whatever is wrong with you will go away on its own over time even if you do nothing. They didn't go to the doctor because they didn't want to have to choose between having the electricity shut off and paying the medical bill.


You do? That says a lot about you, nothing good.

Stay classy.


Anyone who is unaware that assistance exists should you be unable to feed/clothe/care for your kid should probably not have a kid.

There are literally hundreds of programs out there that gov't spends money on that could apply to you - but I'm sure you are completely aware of all of them as soon as they are enacted and you keep up with them all as they change. Yup. Completely black and white.


Some things are black and white. Like killing your kid = wrong. That's pretty straightforward.

So that must be why they are being charged with murder... Oh wait.

vpb: You can be pretty damn poor and still make to much to qualify for Medicade or even CHIP.

Link (new window)


If you can get on. In many states, there are long waitlists.

don't most hospitals have charity plans if you can't afford medical care? The last 3 times I was at the hospital i didn't have to pay a penny. All I had to do was fill out their financial sheet to determine eligibility. I have a part time job and only make about $6,500 a year and I always qualify for 100% of my bill to be paid. Its saved me from about $3,500 in hospital bills in the last 2 years.

FunkOut: I knew a family who lost their 13 year old to appendicitis...because they couldn't recognize the symptoms

Please tell us the definitive symptoms of appendicitis.

From time to time, the boy's parents would notice a lump on his neck, but it would come and go and did not appear to bother him, Luskin said.

This is a tough call.

ginandbacon: CNN has to be the most worthless POS in MSM.

"Prosecutors said Willie was in pain and begged to see a doctor, but his parents said they couldn't afford it and did nothing. Parental neglect was just as responsible for Willie's death as the cancer, Prosecutor Bill Mason said.
Robinson and Hussing aren't married. They moved to Cleveland three weeks before Willie died. His siblings, now ages 15, 13, 8, 7 and 5, were also not going to school or getting medical care." Link (new window)

This was child abuse.

I swear, I don't know why anyone links to CNN, Yahoo, or AP. It's all crap.

Oh, now that I see this, forget my boobies. The parents can burn in hell.

Fade2black: GAT_00: Truly, the unnecessary death of children because of expensive medicine is what makes American great. Right Republicans? That is your philosophy, isn't it?

No, what makes America great is the fact that family could have medicaid'd that kid and cured him, but instead they had no money, so they blew 100 bucks on getting their pitbull de-flea'd. Now their son is dead because these parents should be locked up for life.

Before attempting to troll, please make sure your IQ is at least 50, or you at least read the article so you could make yourself look like you at least had a 4th grade education by pointing out their own neglect; not the hospital telling them to bring him in.

/.5 out of 10, good try lib.

1) The grandparents paid for the pitbull.
2) The parents were clearly retarded and neglecting their children slightly. This is not surprising. The ability to not wear a condom does not equal intelligence.
3) My mother, who is intelligent, very rarely took any of us to doctors. It's expensive and usually unnecessary.

So what happened was two things: First, kid got idiot parents. Second, medical care was difficult to find, and since said parents were idiots, effectively out of reach.

Both are sad.

Guidette Frankentits: Oh, now that I see this, forget my boobies. The parents can burn in hell.

Whenever I read the phrase "Prosecutors say", I tend to assume whatever follows immediately after is a lie.

j__z: If only there was a free, private children's hospital somewhere in the US that could taken care of kids cancer, this wouldn't have happened. oh wait..

You also have Shriner's. Yeah, there's generally options if your kid is sick and you're broke.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Why didn't they claim to be Witnesses or Christian Scientists?

I thought that excuse only worked in Oregon.