Only eleven more months of this, Mitt. Link (new window)

Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

Couldn't agree more.

I honestly think Mitt is going to crack before it's all over. Let it happen of its own accord.

Mitt Romney -Job Cremator.

Randy Johnson is front and center of a campaign by the National Democrats to call attention to downsizing at Bain.

Weird choice for a career move. I guess killing that pigeon really got to him.

Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

brigid_fitch: Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x200]

They turned the Rove Destructor Beam on him. Beat him on his strengths.

But to be fair, Romney's not helping himself with stupid slips like "I like firing people...."

FTFA: "You have to ask the question, is capitalism really about the ability of a handful of rich people to manipulate the lives of thousands of people and then walk off with the money?" Gingrich said in New Hampshire on Monday.

That pretty much sums up the entire Republican platform, doesn't it?

Because People in power are Stupid: Mitt Romney -Job Cremator.

Mitt is not a cremator of jobs. He is a liberator of them! The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Ampad, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.

Demetrius: FTFA: "You have to ask the question, is capitalism really about the ability of a handful of rich people to manipulate the lives of thousands of people and then walk off with the money?" Gingrich said in New Hampshire on Monday.

That pretty much sums up the entire Republican platform, doesn't it?

Newt will say whatever it takes. His dig at Romney's "pious baloney" was particularly funny to me, considering that Newt envisions himself as the Savior of Western Civilization.

Diogenes: brigid_fitch: Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x200]

They turned the Rove Destructor Beam on him. Beat him on his strengths.

But to be fair, Romney's not helping himself with stupid slips like "I like firing people...."

I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context. I deal with a LOT of client companies and, if one completely pisses me off, I cancel their contract & refer to it as firing them. And I can relate to enjoying firing incompetents who can't hold up their end of a contract. But yeah, he's definitely burying himself with his, "I'm glad I made Ted Kennedy mortgage one of his houses in order to beat me" or "When I graduated Harvard w/my MBA, I took an entry-level position" or "I know what it's like to worry about being fired". Stop trying to relate to the working class, Mittens. It's not going to fly.

brigid_fitch: Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x200]

Yup. I'm not going to vote for Romney, but I don't hold his business success against him. All that Gordon Gecko stuff is shiatty for the people who lose their jobs, but he was doing what he was supposed to do--provide value to the stockholders.

brigid_fitch: Diogenes: brigid_fitch: Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x200]

They turned the Rove Destructor Beam on him. Beat him on his strengths.

But to be fair, Romney's not helping himself with stupid slips like "I like firing people...."

I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context. I deal with a LOT of client companies and, if one completely pisses me off, I cancel their contract & refer to it as firing them. And I can relate to enjoying firing incompetents who can't hold up their end of a contract. But yeah, he's definitely burying himself with his, "I'm glad I made Ted Kennedy mortgage one of his houses in order to beat me" or "When I graduated Harvard w/my MBA, I took an entry-level position" or "I know what it's like to worry about being fired". Stop trying to relate to the working class, Mittens. It's not going to fly.

I should have qualified my statement better. I totally get what he was saying. But it was kind of a dumb way of saying it when campaigning.

stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

I don't know. If you hit him hard and fast now and he stumbles in the early primaries he may not be able to get back up.

Actual Farking: brigid_fitch: Jon Stewart pointed this out last night. Romney rode the free market wave and became hugely successful. By Republicans' own account, he should be their Golden Boy. Instead, the new tact is to vilify him for it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x200]

Yup. I'm not going to vote for Romney, but I don't hold his business success against him. All that Gordon Gecko stuff is shiatty for the people who lose their jobs, but he was doing what he was supposed to do--provide value to the stockholders.

But it highlights and important distinction between types of businesses. Romney didn't work for companies that produced anything. It wasn't a career that led to job creation. Those companies have their purpose, but they are scavengers. It's making money off of money. Which a clever opposition researcher could tie to the frustrations with Wall Street and banking. Securitized debt, reconfigured debt, hedge funds outside of exchanges....

In a way I'm glad this conversation has started. It's time we discussed the difference between "good" capitalism and "bad" capitalism.

He didn't destroy those companies, he made them more efficient.

brigid_fitch: I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context.

The quote shows how completely out of touch Romney is even in context. Link (new window)

Also, from @DavidOAtkins:

Romney talks about paying for health insurance as if it were the same as getting a pedicure, hiring an escort or getting the fancy wax at a car wash. It's a luxury service being provided to him, and he doesn't like it, he can take his business elsewhere. Romney's is the language of a man who has never wanted for anything, never worried about where his next paycheck would come from, never worried about going bankrupt if he got sick.

It is the language of an entitled empowerment utterly alien to the experience of most Americans, who feel victimized and bled dry without recourse by these rentier corporations. Romney sees himself as in charge of the relationship between himself and these entities. Most Americans don't. That's why the statement rankles and feels so off-putting to us. The mention of enjoying the act of "firing" them is just icing on the cake.

Link (new window)

Diogenes: In a way I'm glad this conversation has started. It's time we discussed the difference between "good" capitalism and "bad" capitalism.

When I think of bad capitalism, I think of worker exploitation, environmental abuses, unregulated monopolies, and avoiding proper tax obligations. As long as it's done within the rules, I have no problem of making money off of money. Again, I'm not voting for Romney and I think his campaign has been extremely disingenuous, but when he was in business, he had no obligation whatsoever to be a job creator. So long as he conducted them legally, I have no problem with his past business activities.

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Actual Farking: Again, I'm not voting for Romney and I think his campaign has been extremely disingenuous, but when he was in business, he had no obligation whatsoever to be a job creator. So long as he conducted them legally, I have no problem with his past business activities.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily. But he's trying to create an image that doesn't fit with what Bain actually does. And while he's got a record of some business success, the issue of the day is job creation.

brigid_fitch: I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context. I deal with a LOT of client companies and, if one completely pisses me off, I cancel their contract & refer to it as firing them. And I can relate to enjoying firing incompetents who can't hold up their end of a contrac

Exactly. It's like how, after the second prolonged blackout in a month happened, I kept saying to my husband, "if only there was more than one electric company available to us. Not only would this be less likely to happen, but we could switch to another one with better service if there was."

He was definitely attempting to say "more competition equals better service, and people won't have to put up with shoddy service if they don't want to" but gave dirty players a great, snappy line that, out of context, makes him sound even more horrible than he actually is.

I mean, how many of us have been absolutely THRILLED to end a contract with a crappy cell provider, get out of a lease with landlord that did nothing, etc. He just chose his words poorly. Extremely poorly.

Diogenes: Actual Farking: Again, I'm not voting for Romney and I think his campaign has been extremely disingenuous, but when he was in business, he had no obligation whatsoever to be a job creator. So long as he conducted them legally, I have no problem with his past business activities.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily. But he's trying to create an image that doesn't fit with what Bain actually does. And while he's got a record of some business success, the issue of the day is job creation.

True. Like I said, his campaign is remarkably disingenuous. Like the whole, "I know what it's like to worry about losing my job." Bullshiat. He grew up privileged and has never wanted for anything. That's not necessarily something to be ashamed of, and I don't expect the President to be some kind of Ragged Dick, but that shiat is laughably untrue.

Dusk-You-n-Me: brigid_fitch: I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context.

The quote shows how completely out of touch Romney is even in context. Link (new window)

Also, from @DavidOAtkins:

Romney talks about paying for health insurance as if it were the same as getting a pedicure, hiring an escort or getting the fancy wax at a car wash. It's a luxury service being provided to him, and he doesn't like it, he can take his business elsewhere. Romney's is the language of a man who has never wanted for anything, never worried about where his next paycheck would come from, never worried about going bankrupt if he got sick.

It is the language of an entitled empowerment utterly alien to the experience of most Americans, who feel victimized and bled dry without recourse by these rentier corporations. Romney sees himself as in charge of the relationship between himself and these entities. Most Americans don't. That's why the statement rankles and feels so off-putting to us. The mention of enjoying the act of "firing" them is just icing on the cake.

Link (new window)

We're not arguing. Romney is completely shooting himself in the foot every time he attempts to relate anything in his life to the day-to-day life of a blue-collar worker. He's a rich guy born into a rich family--his experiences have never been even CLOSE to the guys working in the paper mills of NH or the chemical plant workers he's going to face in SC. I only meant that the ONE quote where he says he likes firing people is taken out of context. Still a stupid thing to say, as Diogenes pointed out, but not the huge gaffe the media's making it out to be. He's got PLENTY of other examples of his entitled life (a couple of which you pointed out) without stooping to taking things out of context.

Diogenes: stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

Couldn't agree more.

I honestly think Mitt is going to crack before it's all over. Let it happen of its own accord.

He cracked already, he just hasn't realized it yet.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it.

It reminds me of the old Looney Toons cartoons where Yosemite Sam thinks he has Bugs Bunny cornered, but Bugs is secretly behind Sam handing him weapons which will inevitably backfire on Sam.

Let's not tarnish this classic American institution by referencing it to politics please.

Dusk-You-n-Me: Link (new window)

Great. Now I got that farking police song in my brain.

This is awesome. Pretty funny that Gingrich is running more slimey ads than even Obama would ever run. A thing of pure beauty. Now Obama can go almost as negative as he wants and can always point to this as proof that he didn't go too far.

a future Obama quote "my ads weren't even as negative as the ones the GOP candidates including Governor Romney were running against each other"

Diogenes: stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

Couldn't agree more.

I honestly think Mitt is going to crack before it's all over. Let it happen of its own accord.

From the Democrats' side, the worst thing that can happen is for Mittens to trample through an easy primary season looking strong. They want to tie him up with Bain, so unelectable flotsam like Santorum/Gingrich/Perry/RONPAUL/etc. can suck up Republican donation money and spend it on tearing down Rmoney. The longer the Republican primaries drag on, the longer Rmoney has to go on tape saying far-right things that he doesn't believe, which will hurt him in the general whether he sticks with the claims or reverses direction.

The Democrats' best case is that Rmoney barely survives a fractured primary, and generates enough resentment that a third-party option enters from the right. Somewhere in the middle is that Rmoney wins, but has to spend a lot of extra money campaigning in places like SC/ID/OK/WY/GA/KS that Generic Republican could win easily in the general. Their worst case is that they successfully beat down Rmoney long enough for Huntsman to step into the power vacuum.

stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

You overestimate the memory span of an average American.

So, I've read stories like this one about Ampad for about a week now, and all I can keep thinking is "anecdote != evidence." Romney claims that net through the work of Bain Captial he has helped create over 100,000 jobs. It's true he takes credit for jobs that were created well after he left, and we can argue about how valid such a claim is (for those who think it's ridiculous, does that mean that Steve Wozniak can't claim credit for Apple's success?) but what I haven't seen is any sort of accounting that actually puts together figures. All I see is Romney saying "I made 100,000 jobs" and everybody else saying "here's one time and one place where you laid off people" which Romney does not contest.

I have no intention of supporting Romney this election, but this line of attack is not the one that makes me dislike him.

nmrsnr: All I see is Romney saying "I made 100,000 jobs" and everybody else saying "here's one time and one place where you laid off people" which Romney does not contest.

Whatever you want to say about Romney's time at Bain, the number he is providing to reporters, the number Stephanopoulos was asking about, the number Romney is using publicly, is not net-net. It takes three successful companies of the hundreds Romney was involved with and uses their employment totals now - long after Romney finished working with them. Even Pethokoukis, a Romney-friendly conservative, concludes, "That's not going to cut it."

It would be the equivalent of explaining President Ronald Reagan's record by choosing the two best-performing states and then attributing their growth from 1980-2011 to Reagan's presidency. That's not, as Romney said at another point in the debate, "net-net." That's not even net.

Link (new window)

Three Pinocchios

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Meanwhile, DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz has taken to calling him a "job cremator."

It looks like the Democrats have finally figured out how sound bite politics works.

brigid_fitch: I'll give him a break on that one--that's taken out of context.

It is taken out of context. But considering that this is not the first time that an opponent of his used the idea that Mitt is responsible for getting thousands of American workers fired from their jobs and took home a nice hefty bonus check because of it, it's definitely Mitt's fault for ever using the word "fire" or "firing" or "fired" in public ever again.

Bill Clinton knows better than to use the word "cigar" and Mitt Romney should know better than to use the word "fire" or "pink slip." Nothing good is going to come of it.

stpauler: Democrats, if you've got someone willing to do the dirty work,Gingrich, let him do it. Especially since this is something he really excels in. Anything else is going to look like a pile on and you're going to look ugly for jumping in the fray. Save the political capital for once the primaries are over.

Ginrich: the most vicious opponent to have when he's behind you in the polls, and his own worst enemy when he's ahead.

randomjsa: And if Romney is responsible for job losses after his company invested money in a business then Obama is 100% culpable for Solyndra.

Yeah, keep beating that Solyndra drum. That's going to take you far.