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(MSNBC)   Santorum on why Iran shouldn't have nukes: "They're a theocracy. They have deeply embedded beliefs that the afterlife is better than this life." Clearly, Santorum is jealous   (video.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 65
    More: Ironic  
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1520 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jan 2012 at 11:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-01-09 07:30:59 PM
10 votes:

acanuck: The idiot just described Israel


He just described why any religious person shouldn't be President.
2012-01-09 07:24:53 PM
8 votes:
Giving Iran nuclear weapons is a better idea than giving Rick Santorum access to ours.
2012-01-09 09:30:35 PM
4 votes:

DamnYankees: Jews believe in an afterlife.


True.

Simple.

Not even remotely.

::Begin TL;DR::

In the Torah, the oldest books of the Old Testament, the afterlife is only described vaguely by where we're sending the scapegoats, namely Sheol. The term is used in such a way that it was clear that the contemporaries of the Torah would know what they were referring to, but we really don't have such a clear picture anymore. Sheol is basically the land of the dead. You die, you're spirit goes in the ground to stay in Sheol.

After Sheol there's Gehennom, which is a version of "hell." That is to say, this is where the bad people go, rather than everyone who dies. This comes after the Torah, but still in the oldest Old Testament texts (Joshua). There's no messianic anything, no life after death, nothing. Death, and Sheol or Gehennom.

Later in the Old Testament we start getting the messianic messages, with Elijah, but even then the picture of the Messianic age in unclear, and the interpretations are divergent. One of the reasons for the Jewish requirement to be buried whole is that the Messiah will resurrect the dead, and that the Messianic age is on Earth, and you'll be needing your body again, so if it's dismembered you're kind of SOL. Meanwhile, other interpretations of Olam Ha'bah (The World to Come) are more akin to a Rapture scenario where the Israelites leave this world behind to sit by God's right hand for eternity.

It seems clear to me (but I am a slightly heretical Jew) that Judaism's view of the afterlife was strongly influenced by the afterlives of the surrounding religions, and the view changed over the centuries, to be reflected in the varying accounts over the course of the Old Testament. Jews got knocked around so much and borrowed from this and that, and never really tried to reconcile the differences that it's hard to put a coherent face on the Jewish afterlife.

Basic point is that "Jews don't believe in an afterlife" is a good rule of thumb because the entire religion (for all but a few sects) revolves entirely about your conduct in this life. Judaism thinks there is something after, but actively chooses to downplay speculation on what that might be.

::End TL;DR::

/Full disclaimer, I haven't studied Jewish theology past my Hebrew School days, but I'm still a practicing Jew.
2012-01-09 07:52:40 PM
4 votes:
urlybits.com

WTF? The only difference between him and the Iranian govt. is nationality and different sky wizards.
2012-01-09 10:07:32 PM
3 votes:
Wait, Mr. "Gays shouldn't get married and straights shouldn't be allowed to use contraception because God said so," is worried about a theocracy? Rich.
2012-01-09 09:35:11 PM
3 votes:
Oh, and I understand that, if asked, Santorum will deny that he wants America to be a theocracy, but still, I'm wondering how the cognitive dissonance of that statement doesn't give him an aneurysm.
2012-01-09 08:11:14 PM
3 votes:
Religious wackos of all stripes have no business anywhere near power.
2012-01-10 12:32:30 AM
2 votes:

Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries


profile.ak.fbcdn.net

I live in New Zealand where our last two prime ministers have been agnostic. In an election here a candidate's religion is about as important as whether they prefer Star Trek or Star Wars. The Australian prime minister is an atheist. Europe is way more left wing than even us... heck Iceland's prime minister is a lesbian.
2012-01-09 11:31:58 PM
2 votes:

RexTalionis: hubiestubert: Unlike Christians who believe that their afterlife is supposed to just suck? I mean, I know that Catholics aren't as fired up for the afterlife as some Protestants are, but really?

Mr. Santorum, the only way to win this particular game, is not to play...

Hey, beats my culture's version of the afterlife, which is largely dependent on your descendents being diligent enough to send you offerings to keep you happy in the afterlife.


Hey, at least Buddhists have an ordered afterlife. Thank the Confucians for bringing bureaucracy to Hells. Serve your time, go back to the Wheel, try it all over again. It is at least a civilized sort of afterlife. Of course, the Tibetians, those crazy mofos came up with Hells that make even the Hell of Being Flayed Alive look sort of cheery, but to be fair, sit in those mountains long enough, and you'll come up with some messed up sh*t...

My mother's people, they mixed up all that Shinto with Buddhism, and that came up a weird hybrid...
2012-01-09 08:24:34 PM
2 votes:

serpent_sky: Cyberluddite: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

Actually, Jews don't believe in an afterlife, so in that respect at least, no, it actually doesn't describe Israel.

I had no idea that was the case; what do Jews believe? I always assumed they did, what with the no tattoos to be buried in a Jewish cemetery thing. A co-worker said she was going to get a small tattoo of her son's name, but decided against it because she wanted to be buried with her husband and family. I figured that was somehow tied into an afterlife.

/Honestly not being an idiot, I just assumed it was a similar belief.


It's more about not branding oneself permanently and desecrating the body and therefore the soul. Tattoos are considered to be a defilement of the body and also a way of showing your "enslavement" to false idols or gods.

The Torah never mentions an afterlife, really. But a common belief is that when The Messiah comes back to Earth, he will call forth all the Children of God and those who have defied the Torah will be "left behind" so to speak.
2012-01-09 08:13:21 PM
2 votes:

Cyberluddite: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

Actually, Jews don't believe in an afterlife, so in that respect at least, no, it actually doesn't describe Israel.


I had no idea that was the case; what do Jews believe? I always assumed they did, what with the no tattoos to be buried in a Jewish cemetery thing. A co-worker said she was going to get a small tattoo of her son's name, but decided against it because she wanted to be buried with her husband and family. I figured that was somehow tied into an afterlife.

/Honestly not being an idiot, I just assumed it was a similar belief.
2012-01-09 08:04:45 PM
2 votes:

acanuck: The idiot just described Israel


Actually, Jews don't believe in an afterlife, so in that respect at least, no, it actually doesn't describe Israel.
2012-01-09 08:02:31 PM
2 votes:

Mixolydian Master: [urlybits.com image 460x700]

WTF? The only difference between him and the Iranian govt. is nationality and different sky wizards.


No, it's the same sky-wizard. Just different earth prophets. Actually, not even that. Jesus was a prophet in Islamic theology
2012-01-09 07:48:24 PM
2 votes:

acanuck: The idiot just described Israel religion.


FTFY
2012-01-10 12:01:24 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: No need for the wiki, it is well known that Zoroastrianism is dualism not monotheism


By this logic, Catholicism is not monotheistic because of the Holy Trinity.
2012-01-10 10:30:31 AM
1 votes:

Party Boy: Asherah and the Cult of Yahweh in Israel


i278.photobucket.com
2012-01-10 09:45:34 AM
1 votes:

stpauler: Also
The early Jews were not monotheists but henotheists or even outright polytheists. They had one central god but believed in other gods. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3). This was the tribal god, often bloodthirsty and murderous who not only (they claimed) ordered the killing of women and children, but also even directly murdered the first born of Egypt. Every tribe seemed to have their own god. This was no God of love or compassion, but a god of survival.

True monotheism would come later. In Isaiah 43:10, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me..." (KJV)




i.imgur.com

The early history of God: Yahweh and the other deities in ancient Israel

Studies in the cult of Yahweh

Asherah and the Cult of Yahweh in Israel
2012-01-10 09:05:00 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: No need for the wiki, it is well known that Zoroastrianism is dualism not monotheism


From the BBC:

"Cosmic dualism refers to the ongoing battle between Good (Ahura Mazda) and Evil (Angra Mainyu) within the universe.

It is important to understand that Angra Mainyu is not God's equal opposite, rather that Angra Mainyu is the destructive energy that opposes God's creative energy. This creative energy is called Spenta Mainyu. God created a pure world through his creative energy, which Angra Mainyu continues to attack, making it impure. Aging, sickness, famine, natural disasters, death and so on are attributed to this."

God, that sounds awfully familiar. Where have I heard that before?

"The original Hebrew term, satan, is a noun from a verb meaning primarily to, "obstruct, oppose," as it is found in Numbers 22:22, 1 Samuel 29:4, Psalms 109:6.[4] Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as "the accuser," or "the adversary." The definite article "ha-", English "the", is used to show that this is a title bestowed on a being, versus the name of a being. Thus this being would be referred to as "the Satan."[5]" - Satan - (Wikipedia)
2012-01-10 08:54:30 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: also a load of bullocks that was made up in the 19th century, awesome


Wait, so it's the century in which stuff was made up that counts? That explains religion.

/I poke bears yet further
2012-01-10 08:54:03 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: No need for the wiki, it is well known that Zoroastrianism is dualism not monotheism


You're a more credible source than wikipedia?
2012-01-10 08:52:44 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: stpauler: Zoroastrians believe that there is one universal and transcendent God, Ahura Mazda.

No need for the wiki, it is well known that Zoroastrianism is dualism not monotheism


Tatsuma:
So why not just come out and say 'Well religion sucks' right away instead of making cheap non-factual attacks and then saying it?


So you make non-factual attacks and then when confronted with facts, don't use facts to support yourself or your claims. Facts. As for "Well known" apparently not. Or at least, not by you. You're well known on this borard, but that obviously does not make you right.

Tatsuma:


stpauler: Most doesn't mean the winner.

so why would a cite be even relevant? especially since I pointed out that it was mostly irrelevant myself


Well, if you want to have any of your claims worth anything, you would show a cite proving it.

Tatsuma:

stpauler: Also

also a load of bullocks that was made up in the 19th century, awesome


Really, you sincerely believe that. I mean, it's quite obvious in the first book alone, Genesis, that the tome was an amalgamation of two tribes' creation story. Two tribes who worshipped their own deity.
2012-01-10 08:37:06 AM
1 votes:
2012-01-10 08:28:55 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: So why not just come out and say 'Well religion sucks' right away instead of making cheap non-factual attacks and then saying it?


Religion sucks. But at least in my culture (Chinese), with ancestor veneration, we have the advantages of 1) knowing that the people we venerate actually existed, and 2) can factually point out that they (our ancestors) did, in fact, "create" us.
2012-01-10 03:27:50 AM
1 votes:
What's worse, the Christian Taliban or the Islamic Taliban?
2012-01-10 03:19:36 AM
1 votes:
I guess I'm an optimist at heart, as I keep holding onto a shred of hope that one day these people will actually stop, listen to themselves, and realize just how hypocritically stupid they sound.
2012-01-10 03:05:01 AM
1 votes:

dopeydwarf: I'm not exactly sure at what point the ultra-religious mentality took over in the US to the point where politicians are now constantly trying to out Christian one another, but yes it's very troubling.


I think it was sometime in the 80's when Reagan was running for president. I seem to remember a quote from Barry Goldwater about the dangers of courting the religious right in order to garner votes, which Reagan was trying to do. It's been all downhill for the concept of conservatism since.
2012-01-10 02:58:45 AM
1 votes:

violentsalvation: I honestly wish people like Rick Santorum could take a step back and evaluate their own hypocrisy.


If they were capable of that, they wouldn't be "people like Rick Santorum" in the first place.
2012-01-10 12:46:20 AM
1 votes:

gaspode: dopeydwarf: falconne: Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries

[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 200x198]

I live in New Zealand where our last two prime ministers have been agnostic. In an election here a candidate's religion is about as important as whether they prefer Star Trek or Star Wars. The Australian prime minister is an atheist. Europe is way more left wing than even us... heck Iceland's prime minister is a lesbian.


I'm guessing you don't exactly have a bible belt in New Zealand. Seriously, as an atheist and a citizen of the USA I can state with complete confidence that a fellow atheist will never be elected president of our country in the next 50 years if ever.

Its a very sad thing.. and makes you as far as I can work out unique in the western world. Even the old catholic strongholds would have no trouble electing an atheist.



I'm not exactly sure at what point the ultra-religious mentality took over in the US to the point where politicians are now constantly trying to out Christian one another, but yes it's very troubling.
2012-01-10 12:42:20 AM
1 votes:

RexTalionis: hubiestubert: Unlike Christians who believe that their afterlife is supposed to just suck? I mean, I know that Catholics aren't as fired up for the afterlife as some Protestants are, but really?

Mr. Santorum, the only way to win this particular game, is not to play...

Hey, beats my culture's version of the afterlife, which is largely dependent on your descendents being diligent enough to send you offerings to keep you happy in the afterlife.


Is that why they have such big extended families and never travel much? :)
2012-01-10 12:41:26 AM
1 votes:

dopeydwarf: falconne: Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries

[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 200x198]

I live in New Zealand where our last two prime ministers have been agnostic. In an election here a candidate's religion is about as important as whether they prefer Star Trek or Star Wars. The Australian prime minister is an atheist. Europe is way more left wing than even us... heck Iceland's prime minister is a lesbian.


I'm guessing you don't exactly have a bible belt in New Zealand. Seriously, as an atheist and a citizen of the USA I can state with complete confidence that a fellow atheist will never be elected president of our country in the next 50 years if ever.


Its a very sad thing.. and makes you as far as I can work out unique in the western world. Even the old catholic strongholds would have no trouble electing an atheist.
2012-01-10 12:37:16 AM
1 votes:

falconne: Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries

[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 200x198]

I live in New Zealand where our last two prime ministers have been agnostic. In an election here a candidate's religion is about as important as whether they prefer Star Trek or Star Wars. The Australian prime minister is an atheist. Europe is way more left wing than even us... heck Iceland's prime minister is a lesbian.



I'm guessing you don't exactly have a bible belt in New Zealand. Seriously, as an atheist and a citizen of the USA I can state with complete confidence that a fellow atheist will never be elected president of our country in the next 50 years if ever.
2012-01-10 12:37:05 AM
1 votes:

falconne: Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries

[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 200x198]

I live in New Zealand where our last two prime ministers have been agnostic. In an election here a candidate's religion is about as important as whether they prefer Star Trek or Star Wars. The Australian prime minister is an atheist. Europe is way more left wing than even us... heck Iceland's prime minister is a lesbian.


Yeah, the US is just left of Turkey. The US is considerably right of the rest of the West.
2012-01-10 12:28:51 AM
1 votes:

Steve Zodiac: There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries


No problem at all for an atheist to get elected in every other western country I can think of except the US
2012-01-10 12:25:44 AM
1 votes:

acefox1: Cognitive dissonance's head asplodes.


IIRC cognitive dissonance is if Santorum said that about Iran, and then changed his own beliefs and became the athiest atheist who ever athed. Or if he said only holy countries like the US should have nukes, and Iran shouldn't have nukes because they were atheists, although that would just make him an idiot.
2012-01-10 12:13:47 AM
1 votes:

dopeydwarf: cameroncrazy1984: dopeydwarf: Jacobin: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

I don't think they have an afterlife thingy


I think they do, it's just that they focus more on treasuring their current life than placing all bets on the magic man in the sky.

They certainly don't focus on treasuring anyone else's current life.


Right, because Muslims and Christians have that market cornered.


I didn't say they did.
2012-01-10 12:13:30 AM
1 votes:

fusillade762: List of atheists in politics and law (new window)

Though it doesn't break them down by president.


Oddly enough, that particular office has one hell of a "believer" test. It was sickening to watch last election. I got the impression if neither Obama nor Hillary passed it, they wouldn't have been allowed to continue to run for President. Like that many people really f*cking care...
2012-01-10 12:08:16 AM
1 votes:

RexTalionis: hubiestubert: My mother's people, they mixed up all that Shinto with Buddhism, and that came up a weird hybrid...

I thought the Japanese use Shinto for births and Buddhism for funerals.


Japan has some mixed up spirituality. It's not quite the pu pu platter menu that Americans use, but it's close.
2012-01-09 11:59:51 PM
1 votes:
I love how Republicans like to complain about how much money the Democrats "waste" and here they've been throwing million after million right down the toilet with the likes of this year's "contenders."

[let_me_laugh_harder.jpg]
2012-01-09 11:59:43 PM
1 votes:

Jacobin: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

I don't think they have an afterlife thingy


You wanna know how I know you didn't read any of the comments after his?


Steve Zodiac: I think fanatically religious person. There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries


Found a list on teh wikis:

List of atheists in politics and law (new window)

Though it doesn't break them down by president. Check out the list for the UK. Lots o' atheist politicians there.
2012-01-09 11:59:34 PM
1 votes:

dopeydwarf: Jacobin: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

I don't think they have an afterlife thingy


I think they do, it's just that they focus more on treasuring their current life than placing all bets on the magic man in the sky.


They certainly don't focus on treasuring anyone else's current life.
2012-01-09 11:59:24 PM
1 votes:

hawcian: Granted, Catholics believe (somehow) that this is a good thing and look forward to it. And a vast majority don't actually believe in the Catholic dogma, anyway.


Catholics comprise a good portion of the atheists I've personally known.
2012-01-09 11:53:33 PM
1 votes:

Jacobin: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

I don't think they have an afterlife thingy



I think they do, it's just that they focus more on treasuring their current life than placing all bets on the magic man in the sky.
2012-01-09 11:47:16 PM
1 votes:
I've met a few people who have no self-awareness, just not one running for president.
2012-01-09 11:43:08 PM
1 votes:
Santorum as president would do for Americans what Tyler Perry has already done for African-Americans.
2012-01-09 11:38:25 PM
1 votes:
Hey frmr Sen. Santorum,

img.memecenter.com

or are you just shiatchup (what santorum was called before it was called santorum).
2012-01-09 11:36:15 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: My mother's people, they mixed up all that Shinto with Buddhism, and that came up a weird hybrid...


I thought the Japanese use Shinto for births and Buddhism for funerals.
2012-01-09 11:35:05 PM
1 votes:

DarnoKonrad: Religious wackos of all stripes have no business anywhere near power.


But you repeat yourself.
2012-01-09 11:30:49 PM
1 votes:
He's right -- voting for crazy fundies is a huge mistake.
2012-01-09 11:24:36 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: Unlike Christians who believe that their afterlife is supposed to just suck? I mean, I know that Catholics aren't as fired up for the afterlife as some Protestants are, but really?

Mr. Santorum, the only way to win this particular game, is not to play...


Hey, beats my culture's version of the afterlife, which is largely dependent on your descendents being diligent enough to send you offerings to keep you happy in the afterlife.
2012-01-09 11:16:06 PM
1 votes:

acanuck: The idiot just described Israel


To be fair Israel have never actually declared their nukes or signed any NPAs so it's not like they "officially" have them or anything.

/Technically correct is best correct.
2012-01-09 11:06:43 PM
1 votes:
i457.photobucket.com
2012-01-09 10:54:42 PM
1 votes:
So, I'm guessing his handlers haven't allowed him to look in a mirror for a long, long time.
2012-01-09 10:44:41 PM
1 votes:
Right, because the Santorum clan is well adjusted.

www.plunderbund.com
2012-01-09 09:53:59 PM
1 votes:
Unlike Christians who believe that their afterlife is supposed to just suck? I mean, I know that Catholics aren't as fired up for the afterlife as some Protestants are, but really?

Mr. Santorum, the only way to win this particular game, is not to play...
2012-01-09 09:46:57 PM
1 votes:

nmrsnr: DamnYankees: nmrsnr: Judaism thinks there is something after

In other words, Jews believe in an afterlife.

You really wasted a ton of words in that post.

Only if you believe that explanation to be "simple," and then, maybe only on you.

It's like when the defense attorney says "so it's possible the fingerprint isn't a match to my client" and the forensic expert explains the methodology of how he ascertained to 90% certainty that the fingerprint is a positive ID, and the attorney goes "so it's possible?"

Yes. Congratulations. You're very smart.


The reality is nothing you said contradicts this point. Is Jewish theology fuzzy on what the afterlife is? Yes. Is there a coherent conception of what it consists of in Jewish scriptures? No. Is Jewish thought on this subject heavily influenced by other cultures? Yes.

None of this in any way contradicts the fact that Jews believe in an afterlife. They simply do, both as a matter of mainstream theology and the actual beliefs of religious Jews.
2012-01-09 09:43:36 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: nmrsnr: Judaism thinks there is something after

In other words, Jews believe in an afterlife.

You really wasted a ton of words in that post.


Only if you believe that explanation to be "simple," and then, maybe only on you.

It's like when the defense attorney says "so it's possible the fingerprint isn't a match to my client" and the forensic expert explains the methodology of how he ascertained to 90% certainty that the fingerprint is a positive ID, and the attorney goes "so it's possible?"

Yes. Congratulations. You're very smart.
2012-01-09 09:35:46 PM
1 votes:
So on the afterlife thing, which is pretty much the only use for religion, no one can get their story straight. Got it.
2012-01-09 09:34:49 PM
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Judaism thinks there is something after


In other words, Jews believe in an afterlife.

You really wasted a ton of words in that post.
2012-01-09 09:00:04 PM
1 votes:
i1089.photobucket.com
2012-01-09 08:53:43 PM
1 votes:

DarnoKonrad: Religious wackos of all stripes have no business anywhere near power.


Perhaps aside from the rare religious whacko that also turns serial killer, in which case the neighborhood of the electric chair would have its merits.
2012-01-09 08:26:20 PM
1 votes:

serpent_sky: I had no idea that was the case; what do Jews believe? I always assumed they did, what with the no tattoos to be buried in a Jewish cemetery thing. A co-worker said she was going to get a small tattoo of her son's name, but decided against it because she wanted to be buried with her husband and family. I figured that was somehow tied into an afterlife.


I'm certainly no expert, so I'll leave it to Jewish Farkers to answer your question more authoritatively (I'm not Jewish, but my wife is, so anything I can say is based only on what she's told me about it). But as I understand it, the not much at all is said in Jewish holy scriptures about the concept of an afterlife or heaven, and it isn't really a focus of the religion (unlike Christianity, in which it's a central theme and is offered as a reward for accepting Jebus). I think some Jews generally believe in some form of afterlife, many don't, but it's all pretty amorphous and either way it's not really any kind of focus of their religious tenets.

The tattoo thing comes from all the "don't do this, don't do that" stuff in Leviticus (the same part that says not to eat pork, or lobsters, or fruit bats, or whatever), which prohibits marking the body. The philosophy is that the human body is God's artistic creation, and it shouldn't be defaced with tats, piercings, etc.
2012-01-09 08:24:55 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: acanuck: The idiot just described Israel

He just described why any religious person shouldn't be President.


I think fanatically religious person. There is no way an atheist or avowed agnostic could get elected in most western countries, and especially in this country. It would be nice to elect someone who realizes just how hypocritical it is for the POTUS to order an airstrike or SEAL raid while saying that they follow the 10 commandments. There isn't an asterisk next to the 'Thou shalt not kill' commandment. There also isn't one next to the 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' one either, which theoretically eliminates most presidential candidates in either party and many leaders in Europe and Asia. But it's only evil and morally wrong when someone in a party or country you dislike does it.
2012-01-09 08:00:45 PM
1 votes:
You know what's even worse than Rick Santorum being a hypocritical idiot?

Links that go directly to MSNBC videos with embedded ads, that's what.
2012-01-09 07:26:14 PM
1 votes:
So if Santorum gets elected and we become a theocracy too everything will be hunky-dory, right?
2012-01-09 07:18:02 PM
1 votes:
The idiot just described Israel
 
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