apoptotic: I hate to say it, but Amos Quito may not be entirely off base on the Israel angle. Ehud Barak came to Canada in October and talked to our Defense Minister (Peter MacKay) about what to do about Iran.

I did a quick google search and found out that Panetta also met with MacKay and Barak on November 18th (9 days after the IAEA report came out). Canada announced on November 21st that we'd joined the US and the UK in introducing tougher sanctions on Iran.

Sure, the timing could be coincidental, but I doubt it.


No, I'm not wrong on the Israel angle. I've been watching this shiat go on for years. Here's an article from March 2009:

Netanyahu to Obama: Stop Iran-Or I Will

The message from Israel's new prime minister is stark: if the Obama administration doesn't prevent Tehran from developing nuclear weapons, Israel may be forced to attack.

An Atlantic exclusive
By Jeffrey Goldberg


Here's one from 2003 - BEFORE we wet apeshiat on Iraq:

Sharon says U.S. should also disarm Iran, Libya and Syria
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said yesterday that Iran, Libya and Syria should be stripped of weapons of mass destruction after Iraq.

Notice anything interesting happening in Iran, Libya and Syria lately?

Like I said, Israel has been working this angle for decades - and it appears to be paying off - finally.

When you see shiat going down in Iran, remember, and ask yourself: Is Israel really worth it?

violentsalvation: FireBreathingLiberal: The nuclear program of Iran was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States as part of the Atoms for Peace program.

Thanks, wikipedia.

Atoms for Peace also lead to a pretty cool set of posters by Erik Nitsche
Link (new window)

Amos

use your example of china swooping in to rescue the American people - ok? so, imagine America is one of the most oppressive regimes in the world, the people have had enough but the American regime won't let a body count getting in the way of putting down a revolution. you might thank Chinese assistance if it is given in the name of freedom - or normally people might, you, of course, would blame Israel

Amos Quito: WTF, America? Who's running the insane asylum?

we don't have asylums anymore. Reagan closed them all.

21-7-b: Amos

the Iranian regime is already falling apart. claiming that the Iranian regime might fall apart if we meddle is kinda missing the point


Then what are you worried about, my Israel championing friend?

If the Iranian regime is falling apart, let it fall! What farking business is it of ours?

Why should we create conflict that may well explode into WWIII?

Corvus: Amos Quito: What do you suppose Israel is planning to use those for? Bombing Palestinian olive groves?

Why would we give missile to Israel to attack Iran, if our goal is to for the US to invade Iran? That makes no sense. We would give Israel the weapons to do it if we wanted Israel to do it INSTEAD of the US invading Iran, which I would expect is much more likely.


Israel wants Iran attacked. But she doesn't want to attack Iran herself if she can con others into doing it FOR her.

Why should she put her OWN men in harm's way?

That said, I expect that when the time comes, Izzy will play her role - however small. Vadda buncha heroes!


Corvus: Your not even making a consistent argument. Do you smoke a lot of pot?

Oh yeah you are a Ron Paul supporter (or so I expect) so never-mind I think I alread know the answer to that.


Ad hominem much?

DarnoKonrad

Iran certainly doesn't labour under any notion of the rule of law. As for the people, you have to remember the regime has always gone to sufficient lengths to dismantle opposition. I think what you will find is that the younger generation is of profound importance in Iran, and i think you will find that they will have developed the necessary will secretly, aware that to fail to do so would be detrimental to their desire to live healthily in Iran - something which previous generations may have learned after the fact

We are going to war with Iran aren't we? They are going to kill tens of thousands of people on both sides to get 1 or 2 guys, and we are going to hear about how this current group of arseholes is going to try and convince me it is a good idea.

Wow, this is news? Of course everyone knows Iran wants a nuke. Will the world do anything to stop them? Dobutful... What a shame.

Amos

I champion freedom and democracy, if that makes me Israel's champion, then I'm proud to be so

as for "why should we try to prevent a disaster as the regime is brought down" - well, the answer is, of course, because it is probably the most sensible thing to do

21-7-b: Iran certainly doesn't labour under any notion of the rule of law.

Yes it does.

DarnoKonrad

what does the rule of law mean in Iran?

Why don't these uppity 3rd world countries just stay in the Dark Ages technologically? Hundreds of millions live in squalor every day and they are just fine!

Discrediting of Leon Panetta in 3...2....1...

LasersHurt

no need to tell me how that is so - you crack on if it makes you feel good

In an annual survey known as the Rule of Law Index, issued by the World Justice Project, Iran ranks last out of 66 nations for the protection of fundamental rights. The survey notes that Iranian law enforcement authorities perpetrate abuses against citizens, and Iran's courts are infected by corruption and political interference.

look at them enjoying flaunting their ignorance openly, those rule of law indexers

21-7-b: Amos

I champion freedom and democracy, if that makes me Israel's champion, then I'm proud to be so


Hey, the antebellum Southern United States was a champion of "freedom and democracy".

If you fit the proper ethnic profile.

Sound familiar?

Amos

don't tell me, is the answer to your question 'Israel'

lucky guess

Corvus: Amos Quito: Corvus: Amos Quito: What do you suppose Israel is planning to use those for? Bombing Palestinian olive groves?

Why would we give missile to Israel to attack Iran, if our goal is to for the US to invade Iran? That makes no sense. We would give Israel the weapons to do it if we wanted Israel to do it INSTEAD of the US invading Iran, which I would expect is much more likely.


Israel wants Iran attacked. But she doesn't want to attack Iran herself if she can con others into doing it FOR her.

Why should she put her OWN men in harm's way?

That said, I expect that when the time comes, Izzy will play her role - however small. Vadda buncha heroes!


Corvus: Your not even making a consistent argument. Do you smoke a lot of pot?

Oh yeah you are a Ron Paul supporter (or so I expect) so never-mind I think I alread know the answer to that.


Ad hominem much?


So now saying someone might be a Ron Paul supporter pot smoker is an attack on them?


Not to me it isn't. But some might see it as a cheap attempt at personal slash made by someone who is failing miserably at addressing the issues.

You ever feel like that?

darkedgefan: Wow, this is news? Of course everyone knows Iran wants a nuke. Will the world do anything to stop them? Dobutful... What a shame.

Wanna know how I know you didn't read the f*cking article?

Corvus: Amos Quito: Israel wants Iran attacked. But she doesn't want to attack Iran herself if she can con others into doing it FOR her.

Why should she put her OWN men in harm's way?

You were the one saying we were arming Israel so Israel can attack Iran, now you are saying Israel is not going to do it and have the US do it instead.

Really concentrate, you are all over the place. You seem to have a hard time focusing on one aspect.

You said we are loading up Israel to attack Iran. Now you are saying Israel is not going to attack Iran because the US is going to do it for them. You arguing to contradictory positions.


And now you're trying to pretend that you didn't read this post where I said: "I expect that when the time comes, Izzy will play her role - however small. Vadda buncha heroes!" ?

But apparently you did read the post.

You responded to it.


/Maybe you and 21-7-b should get a room?

21-7-b: Amos

don't tell me, is the answer to your question 'Israel'

lucky guess


You're really flailing here, 21-7-b.

I haven't seen anything so disgustingly pathetic since Gollum lost his ring.

Amos

we'll take this one, thanks. don't let the door, etc

Amos

I'm "flailing" by highlighting your obsession? why's that?

Corvus: Amos Quito: And now you're trying to pretend that you didn't read this post where I said: "I expect that when the time comes, Izzy will play her role - however small. Vadda buncha heroes!" ?

Why is it?

Israel is going to bomb Iran to stop them or the US is going to invade Iran while Israel sits back?

You've been arguing both. Both can't happen. your all over the map.


Israel: "Bomb Iran!"
US: "Let's not rush into things!"
Israel: "If you don't do it we will"
US: "Not flying over US controlled airspace, you won't"
Israel: "WAAAAAA!!! WAAAAA!!! I'm building more settlements! [tantrum]"
US: "Don't make a scene! Here, have some bunker busters"
Israel: "No, that's not enough! It's NEVER enough!"
US: "Okay, if we impose vicious sanctions on Iran and move forces into position to attack, will you cooperate?"
Israel: "Meh, I'll think about it. What else you got to offer, SUCKER?

We need to stay out of Iran. It would be completely stupid to waste lives and money attacking them. We shouldn't fall for the bullshiat weapons of mass destruction line again like so many did in Iraq. Sadly so many Americans are idiots that they will happily support another war.

I love this really blase attitude towards meddling with Iran.
"They already hate their leaders! We could change everything with just a little bit of interference!"

Yeah, when has there been any blowback from that kind of thing, in Iran or elsewhere in the region?

The top scientists in the USA should get to work on finding out how to use Stupid as an energy source.

spamdog: I love this really blase attitude towards meddling with Iran.
"They already hate their leaders! We could change everything with just a little bit of interference!"

Yeah, when has there been any blowback from that kind of thing, in Iran or elsewhere in the region?

The top scientists in the USA should get to work on finding out how to use Stupid as an energy source.


FARK would rule the world!

PC LOAD LETTER: They aren't developing nuclear weapons, but they are developing nuclear capability? WTF

It's not as WTF as you might think. They are apparently not working on the technology to make the weapon itself (explosive lenses, casings, timing mechanisms and so on) instead they are working on making the weapons grade nuclear material that you must have before you can even consider making a nuclear weapon. In other words, just like the United States did in their first program in the 1930's and 1940's, they are concentrating on creating the fissile material first (which you have to have anyway and is by far the hardest part of the process) before they can work on making the bomb itself.

Of course there is no reason to make that type or concentration of fissile material unless you plan on making a weapon out of it at some point so while they may be able to say "We are not making nuclear weapons" and not technically be lying, they are working at making the weapons grade material to enable them to make a weapon at some future date if they so desire.

And lets face it, kids here in the US have made nuclear weapon mock-ups for science projects that would've worked (or at least that's what the DOE said at the time) if they had had the fissile materials and explosives inside them to finish them off, so the timeline from having the fissile material in hand to having a theoretically viable weapon in hand is very short in comparison to going from not having any fissile material at all to having enough fissile material to make a weapon.

Corvus

black helicopters with lizard pilots and stuff

21-7-b: Amos

Israeli lobbyists welcome sanctions aimed at encouraging Iran to normalize and you're raging about it?

oh dear me


Define "normalize" if you'd be so kind, 21-7-b.

Thanks in advance.

Corvus: Amos Quito: Corvus: Amos Quito: And now you're trying to pretend that you didn't read this post where I said: "I expect that when the time comes, Izzy will play her role - however small. Vadda buncha heroes!" ?

Why is it?

Israel is going to bomb Iran to stop them or the US is going to invade Iran while Israel sits back?

You've been arguing both. Both can't happen. your all over the map.


Israel: "Bomb Iran!"
US: "Let's not rush into things!"
Israel: "If you don't do it we will"
US: "Not flying over US controlled airspace, you won't"
Israel: "WAAAAAA!!! WAAAAA!!! I'm building more settlements! [tantrum]"
US: "Don't make a scene! Here, have some bunker busters"
Israel: "No, that's not enough! It's NEVER enough!"
US: "Okay, if we impose vicious sanctions on Iran and move forces into position to attack, will you cooperate?"
Israel: "Meh, I'll think about it. What else you got to offer, SUCKER?

I am not a big fan of what Israel does. I also believe the US favors Israel sometimes to the detriment of US interests but your just nuts if you think Obama is about to swoop in and invade Iran with military troops.


That bolded part above.

You may want to ponder it a bit.

Very Boring Amos

navigate your browser to http://www.google.com (doesnt matter if the letters are upper or lower case (capitals (big letters) or little letters, to you) and type in "definition of normalise." google is this thing called a "search engine" - it provides links to additional information on the topic you searched for. please let me know how you get on

Amos Quito: 21-7-b: Amos

Israeli lobbyists welcome sanctions aimed at encouraging Iran to normalize and you're raging about it?

oh dear me


Define "normalize" if you'd be so kind, 21-7-b.

Thanks in advance.


And then came...


21-7-b: Very Boring Amos

navigate your browser to http://www.google.com (doesnt matter if the letters are upper or lower case (capitals (big letters) or little letters, to you) and type in "definition of normalise." google is this thing called a "search engine" - it provides links to additional information on the topic you searched for. please let me know how you get on


How to "normalize a nation"... Hmmm.

In order to describe a nation as "normal" or indeed, "abnormal", we would have to define - or at least provide examples of - "normal" nations, wouldn't we?

And apparently "normal" means "good", right?

Is Israel a "normal" nation?

Why or why not?

can't see the definition there, dear troll. try 'googling' (as it is known) again

GIS for Amos' Obvious: