They're based off of an Alfa Romeo platform and will share engines with the Fiat 500 Abarth.

So much for American Muscle.

quellic: They're based off of an Alfa Romeo platform and will share engines with the Fiat 500 Abarth.

So much for American Muscle.

"American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: DarnoKonrad: quellic: They're based off of an Alfa Romeo platform and will share engines with the Fiat 500 Abarth.

So much for American Muscle.

"American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

True. But, as a recent Car & Driver piece pointed out, the curb weight of vehicles has risen significantly over the years, which has heavily cut the real world gas saving benefits of the modern engines.


Well that's got more to do with McDonald's than Detroit. You can't sell a Mustang if the guy wanting to buy it can't fit his ass in its seat.

thismomentinblackhistory: Bring back the Rabbit.

'You mean behind the rabbit?'

Serial killer car

brigid_fitch: 2013 Dart:

[stblogs.automotive.com image 623x389]

The Dart of yesteryear (looks like 73)

[www.remarkablecars.com image 640x320]

The new one looks like any number of Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. Give me the old one, any day.

I prefer the slightly older ones that don't like like a Duster clone. Still excellent point.

Yesterday I got passed on the highway by a Fiat 500, figure it's time for me to turn in my Man Card.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: DarnoKonrad: quellic: They're based off of an Alfa Romeo platform and will share engines with the Fiat 500 Abarth.

So much for American Muscle.

"American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

True. But, as a recent Car & Driver piece pointed out, the curb weight of vehicles has risen significantly over the years, which has heavily cut the real world gas saving benefits of the modern engines.

My '93 VW Golf 4 door with crank windows, manually-adjusted seats, vacuum-powered door locks and a normally-aspirated 2 liter got better mileage (29-33 depending on season and load) than my GF's 2010 VW Eos.

brigid_fitch: 2013 Dart:

[stblogs.automotive.com image 623x389]

The Dart of yesteryear (looks like 73)

[www.remarkablecars.com image 640x320]

The new one looks like any number of Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. Give me the old one, any day.

Looks like a Neon with fancy rims.

The vast majority of Darts were not musclecars - most were 4 door six cylinders; the cheapest thing Dodge made.

mjones73: I prefer the slightly older ones that don't like like a Duster clone. Still excellent point.

Those are the Dart Sport, fastback body style. Regular Darts are sedans or 2 door coupes.

DarnoKonrad: "American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

Ever see what happens when you add modern ignition and fuel injection to one of those "neanderthals"?
Updating them isn't that hard if you have the savvy.

I like the new Dart, but out of the Detroit Auto Show, I'd rather have a 2013 Ford Fusion.

Bring back the 4-speed manual Colt. The station wagon version. I would buy one for my parents just to replace the one I trashed while learning how to drive. When I was done with that thing, I think the gears had fewer teeth than a Kentucky nursing home. Top speed: 90mph (downhill with a stiff tailwind). What a fun car to drive, even it DID have less horsepower than a blender.

Looks nicer than the Caliber... Look forward to seeing it in person once the public show opens.

/ that is all

Clack approves. Click does not.

tillerman35: What a fun car to drive, even it DID have less horsepower than a blender.

You're in luck, according to tfa, the Alfa 1.4 turbo will be in the 'muscle car edition'

I had a 1976 Dart 4 door. Bought it with 129k, sold it with 227k. Drove it in high school like a maniac and it put up very well with it. (Except for the ball-joints that I wore out once a year.) Best car I've ever had.

Bring back the slant 6 engine

Bring back the Omni.

Interesting. I doubt it will be - in a nostalgic sense - better than the original.

In the 1964 my Step-Dad bought a new Dart that had a fatal flaw : it had an experimental engine which was never supposed to leave the factory. It was a V-6 (no, not a slant-six) that ran like a V-8 but sipped gas like a V-4. The car routinely got 30 MPG. While not a big deal now, for a heavy car like the Dart back then it was something of an engineering miracle. The acid test was when he drove it to the Salt Flats and timed it going flat-out. 160.62 MPH was the top speed.

Then Dodge came a calling to get it back.

They tried everything up to and including trying to steal the car to get that engine back, but that was after my Step-Dad rejected any and all absurdly high offers to buy the car back. You just had to know exactly how stubborn of a cuss he could be about things like that. Under different circumstances he would give you the shirt off his back willingly and happily. But a disrespectful corporation that screwed up and demanded "its" property back? Hell would freeze over and host the Winter Olympics first.

I don't remember when he got rid of that car, but I do know the engine never made it back to Dodge.

TravisBickle62: Yesterday I got passed on the highway by a Fiat 500, figure it's time for me to turn in my Man Card.

I have such mixed feelings on the Fiat 500. It's an awesome little car, the sports version is a street legal go kart. But you can tell it was designed in a country where you rarely get snow (the Alps being the exception of course). Then they sell the thing with wider tires just to make it even worse.

The car will be a cool little case study in if it is worth your time and money to make a car that only sells south of the Snow Belt in America, but I don't think it will do well up north.

/That Dart looks someone walked some Honda blueprints over to a copy machine and send the page images to the factory

bottsicus: Grand_Moff_Joseph: DarnoKonrad: quellic: They're based off of an Alfa Romeo platform and will share engines with the Fiat 500 Abarth.

So much for American Muscle.

"American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

True. But, as a recent Car & Driver piece pointed out, the curb weight of vehicles has risen significantly over the years, which has heavily cut the real world gas saving benefits of the modern engines.

My '93 VW Golf 4 door with crank windows, manually-adjusted seats, vacuum-powered door locks and a normally-aspirated 2 liter got better mileage (29-33 depending on season and load) than my GF's 2010 VW Eos.

brigid_fitch: 2013 Dart:

[stblogs.automotive.com image 623x389]

The Dart of yesteryear (looks like 73)

[www.remarkablecars.com image 640x320]

The new one looks like any number of Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. Give me the old one, any day.

Looks like a Neon with fancy rims.

How do vacuum powered door locks work??

Do the doors become unlocked after you park it for a while?

My cousin had a dart back in the day. Every time she started it up, it would billow smoke. We called it the Batmobile.

Kurmudgeon: DarnoKonrad: "American Muscle" was never all that great to begin with. Modern engines produce far more power per L than their neanderthal ancestors.

Ever see what happens when you add modern ignition and fuel injection to one of those "neanderthals"?
Updating them isn't that hard if you have the savvy.

You can get ridiculous amount of power, but at consider cost in wear and fuel economy. I'm talking about passenger cars here -- not a 2000 hp death trap that gets 10 gallons to the mile. Otherwise, some modern 500hp 4 banger is going to run loops around the fanciest of "muscle cars."

I don't think there's a lot of pent-up nostalgia for the Dart. Should have simply come up with a new name, particularly since the new one bears 0 resemblance to the original. Also, the aggressive styling really doesn't fit the typical buyer in the "super compact" category.

I would like to see a car that forgoes crash safety ratings in order get great gas mileage, like 70 mpg or so. It would be an interesting experiment to see if such a car could sell in the US.

1macgeek: Interesting. I doubt it will be - in a nostalgic sense - better than the original.

In the 1964 my Step-Dad bought a new Dart that had a fatal flaw : it had an experimental engine which was never supposed to leave the factory. It was a V-6 (no, not a slant-six) that ran like a V-8 but sipped gas like a V-4. The car routinely got 30 MPG. While not a big deal now, for a heavy car like the Dart back then it was something of an engineering miracle. The acid test was when he drove it to the Salt Flats and timed it going flat-out. 160.62 MPH was the top speed.

Then Dodge came a calling to get it back.

They tried everything up to and including trying to steal the car to get that engine back, but that was after my Step-Dad rejected any and all absurdly high offers to buy the car back. You just had to know exactly how stubborn of a cuss he could be about things like that. Under different circumstances he would give you the shirt off his back willingly and happily. But a disrespectful corporation that screwed up and demanded "its" property back? Hell would freeze over and host the Winter Olympics first.

I don't remember when he got rid of that car, but I do know the engine never made it back to Dodge.

So your Dad singlehandedly gave the American economy to OPEC and ruined Detroit. Nice.

Chakro: dosboot: Bring back the slant 6 engine

I had a Plymouth Valiant with the slant 6, it was a great little car even with the push-button transmission. (Notice in Guuberre"s picture, the dashboard is solid metal, no padding) The Dodge Dart I had was a 4-door with the small-block V-8. That engine was almost too much for that car. What fun!

I had a '64 Dart. My parents bought it from someone who blew the original engine up. I think they paid $10 for the car, and that included a full tank of gas. I spent most of the summer that year dealing with getting a used engine (slant-6) and getting the car up and running. Good times. And, yes - steel dash with no padding and a push-button automatic. I miss that old POS.

brigid_fitch: The Dart of yesteryear (looks like 73)

The new one looks like any number of Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. Give me the old one, any day.



...Which looks just like a Nova of the era:

1macgeek: In the 1964 my Step-Dad bought a new Dart that had a fatal flaw : it had an experimental engine which was never supposed to leave the factory. It was a V-6 (no, not a slant-six) that ran like a V-8 but sipped gas like a V-4. The car routinely got 30 MPG. While not a big deal now, for a heavy car like the Dart back then it was something of an engineering miracle. The acid test was when he drove it to the Salt Flats and timed it going flat-out. 160.62 MPH was the top speed.

I-4 engine, I-4. Inline 4 cylinder engine. Inline engines produce more torque and thus 4 cylinder engines are typically inline to ensure the car has enough torque. The last V4s for cars exited service in the early 1960s (the Taunus V4). Although I bet some shiatty Eastern Bloc car company kept making clones of them for a long time.

/V4s are for boats and motorcycles
//the inline configuration is also why the cars from the 1920s have huge penis like hoods. Because most engines were inline back them (up to inline 12 cylinders even).

DarnoKonrad: You can get ridiculous amount of power, but at consider cost in wear and fuel economy. I'm talking about passenger cars here -- not a 2000 hp death trap that gets 10 gallons to the mile. Otherwise, some modern 500hp 4 banger is going to run loops around the fanciest of "muscle cars."

Make up your mind, first you were biatching about power per liter, now you're on about fuel mileage.
Put the ignition and injection on a slant six then.
I like the 4 banger in my Chrysler 200, however I don't go comparing it to vintage muscle cars.
Different eras, different purposes.

My parents had a '64 Dart. The thing was indestructible.

No Slant 6? No dice.

A friend at Purdue who had a BMW that was constantly in the shop in Indianapolis would borrow my 1967 Dodge Dart constantly. He finally starting buying Darts himself after he said, "I was going down I-65 when the sun came out and a voice spoke to me and said: 'Thiis BMW is costing you too much. Buy a Dart'."

Pfffft, it's not Plymouth Breeze

My frist car (aside from a hand-me-down minivan that my parents kept around) was a 1974 Dodge Dart that looked almost exactly like this...



...except mine had been ravaged by 25 years of Canadian winters and road salt and had some pretty substantial rust and rot.

Fun first car though.

Dodge is a damn fine car. Ran over my wife with a Dodge.

Link (new window)

DarnoKonrad: Otherwise, some modern 500hp 4 banger is going to run loops around the fanciest of "muscle cars."

True, that's why when you look at lists of top track times and fastest production vehicles you see so many four cylind.... oh, wait.... I'm confusing four cylinder cars with things that have more than four cylinders again....

Unless you really did mean to limit your comparison to hyper-engineered compacts and under-engineered muscle cars, in which case I have some shocking news for you about apples, oranges, and how they don't taste similar.

1macgeek: Interesting. I doubt it will be - in a nostalgic sense - better than the original.

In the 1964 my Step-Dad bought a new Dart that had a fatal flaw : it had an experimental engine which was never supposed to leave the factory. It was a V-6 (no, not a slant-six) that ran like a V-8 but sipped gas like a V-4. The car routinely got 30 MPG. While not a big deal now, for a heavy car like the Dart back then it was something of an engineering miracle. The acid test was when he drove it to the Salt Flats and timed it going flat-out. 160.62 MPH was the top speed.

Then Dodge came a calling to get it back.

They tried everything up to and including trying to steal the car to get that engine back, but that was after my Step-Dad rejected any and all absurdly high offers to buy the car back. You just had to know exactly how stubborn of a cuss he could be about things like that. Under different circumstances he would give you the shirt off his back willingly and happily. But a disrespectful corporation that screwed up and demanded "its" property back? Hell would freeze over and host the Winter Olympics first.

I don't remember when he got rid of that car, but I do know the engine never made it back to Dodge.

I think I've seen this chain email before.

There is not one thing you can say to me that will make me buy a Dodge product.

That is all.