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(Ars Technica) Stupid Microsoft: we didn't really want Windows Phone to be all that popular, anyway   (arstechnica.com) divider line 55
More: Stupid, Windows Phones, Microsoft, mobile network operator  
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4301 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jan 2012 at 8:34 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2012-01-09 08:46:08 AM
As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

It's weird to think of Microsoft doing so many things right, but IE9, Win security, Win7 and Win7 phone are some of the best things they put out in a timeframe of a year or so
 
2012-01-09 08:46:44 AM
MSFTsundere
 
2012-01-09 08:59:09 AM
Being popular is so mainstream, right?

Hipster dollar: really hot right now.
 
2012-01-09 08:59:54 AM
Worked with a Windows phone for awhile and it was a horrible experience. Android is more to my personal liking.
 
2012-01-09 09:04:01 AM
somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

It's weird to think of Microsoft doing so many things right, but IE9, Win security, Win7 and Win7 phone are some of the best things they put out in a timeframe of a year or so


I have an Android and I'm thinking about a WinPhone for my next phone. I hear nothing but great things (unless it's biased, nonspecific insults from Android/Apple fan types).
 
2012-01-09 09:10:41 AM
I wonder if we can take a minor update policy and make it sound horrible?

Everything I've heard about the new Win Phones is that they're really pretty great, and easily an Android competitor. It's just gonna take some upgrade cycles to get them in peoples' mitts.
 
2012-01-09 09:14:25 AM
somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested
 
2012-01-09 09:18:11 AM
somedude210: It's weird to think of Microsoft doing so many things right

Not really. Microsoft has been releasing pretty good software since Windows 2000 and they started the trend on the consumer side with XP. They also stopped being so openly belligerent about licensing (although the current model is still kind of annoying) and standards and started trying to work more with the entire technical community.

Microsoft, for all its evil and flaws in the 90s, has actually become a relatively decent company. Ironically, Apple is the big player that has gone full retard to take their place after being the ones that tried so hard during Microsoft's rein of terror to be so different.
 
2012-01-09 09:28:43 AM
LasersHurt: I wonder if we can take a minor update policy and make it sound horrible?

Everything I've heard about the new Win Phones is that they're really pretty great, and easily an Android competitor. It's just gonna take some upgrade cycles to get them in peoples' mitts.


Indeed. We have a Samsung Focus at work for testing and I really like it. I'm in the iOS ecosystem so I won't be changing anytime soon (too much money invested in software), but the WP7 devices are pretty nice.

If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.
 
2012-01-09 09:29:57 AM
0Icky0: somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested


Well I'm using a HTC HD7S and i love the fact that it's so streamlined and smooth (I would imagine, much the same way that the iPhone is streamlined) plus I can actually fully uninstall apps, a feature that Android phones didn't really have (at least when I was looking at getting my first smartphone)

The only drawbacks Win7 phones have that I've found is that there is still not a gigantic library of apps, compared to Android and iPhone, though there are still a lot, just not metric asston levels. Also, as of right now (and this may be a future release post-Mango) you cannot send video through texts.

But I do get Microsoft Office on my phone, which is surprisingly useful and intuitive. But the apps that I do have (resistor calculator, translator, stocks, amazon, accuweather, Sun Zsu's Art of War, flashlight) are all very nice, free and work beautifully.

I'm still not sold on the tile system for Windows 8 for desktops, but I find it extremely nice to use on the phone. Take a look at them the next time you're in a store, play around with it. You'll figure out 80% of it in 5 mins. The other 20% is all the funky stuff that you discover the more you play with it (power user stuff)
 
2012-01-09 09:35:56 AM
0Icky0: somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested


Also, for whatever reason (and this may be a business deal that Google/Microsoft/Verizon/Att all made) but AT&T has a vastly larger and superior stock of WP7 phones than Verizon does, and vice versa for Android.

I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

/verizon phones, for whatever reason (at least in the Razr days) would have the same models (razr) but would have the crappy versions of them compared to AT&T, (cheap plastic compared to metal, smaller phone, easily breakable) and I never understood why
//att has the better quality phones, and lately the better quality service
 
2012-01-09 09:35:57 AM
1. Microsoft release update
2. Update goes to OEMs
3. Updates goes back to Microsoft with OEM verification that it works
4. Microsoft sends update to carriers
5. Carriers testing updates
6. Carrier release updates to you
That's pretty much it. Your carrier or OEM is at fault most of the damn time.
/Ask anyone with a Galaxy S and S2 about Samsung update process
 
2012-01-09 09:43:12 AM
somedude210: 0Icky0: somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested

Also, for whatever reason (and this may be a business deal that Google/Microsoft/Verizon/Att all made) but AT&T has a vastly larger and superior stock of WP7 phones than Verizon does, and vice versa for Android.

I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

/verizon phones, for whatever reason (at least in the Razr days) would have the same models (razr) but would have the crappy versions of them compared to AT&T, (cheap plastic compared to metal, smaller phone, easily breakable) and I never understood why
//att has the better quality phones, and lately the better quality service


At&t will be adding 3 more LTE Windows phones in March. Nokia, Samsung (bigger Focus),and a HTC(Titan with LTE)
/Looking at the Focus S but might hold out for the Nokia Lumina 900(Ace)
//The Ace will be a Hero phone(think iphone and razr) for At&t
 
2012-01-09 09:45:43 AM
drjekel_mrhyde: At&t will be adding 3 more LTE Windows phones in March. Nokia, Samsung (bigger Focus),and a HTC(Titan with LTE)
/Looking at the Focus S but might hold out for the Nokia Lumina 900(Ace)
//The Ace will be a Hero phone(think iphone and razr) for At&t


I've read good things about the Titan, Maximum PC did a review of it this month, but its farking huge.

also, awesome about the next gen razr for att. It's really a toss up between the focus and one of the HTCs. all are good.
 
2012-01-09 09:51:14 AM
drjekel_mrhyde: /Ask anyone with a Galaxy S and S2 about Samsung update process

GAH! fark YOU SAMSUNG! fark YOU! fark YOU! fark YOU! fark YOU fark YOU farkyoufarkyoufarkyou...

/Samsung Galaxy S owner
//Switiching to HTC Titan next month
 
2012-01-09 09:55:21 AM
It's possible you could use the same hack that people used to get Mango early to run this patch. During the stepped rollout of Mango, you were texted when you were eligible for the upgrade, even though the upgrade was released. In order to get it before you were texted, you just needed to run the update feature through Zune and disconnect the phone from the computer at a certain point during the update process, and this, somehow, circumvented whatever was preventing you from accessing the update and allowed you to download it and apply it to your phone.
 
2012-01-09 10:13:55 AM
Well there's no change in the update policy, so losing the "where's my update" page shouldn't really matter much.
/sent from my Samsung Focus Flash
 
2012-01-09 10:43:25 AM
somedude210: I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

Verizon stopped releasing smartphones without LTE. That is why there haven't been any more than the one.

WP7 runs fine. Personally, I hate the way that the UI cuts off the edge of the screen. It seriously drives me nuts, like fingernails on a chalkboard nuts. That's why I would never consider WP7. That appears Metro UI will also get skipped as well.
 
2012-01-09 10:44:53 AM
FTFA: "The entire rationale for carrier testing and approval is unclear, with Microsoft conceding that Apple doesn't bother asking for the mobile operators to test or approve iOS updates before shipping them."

If there was no carrier testing, things would ship broken. Really broken. Each carrier needs to test each device locally to make sure the radio stack works, carrier features work and all the rest. This makes it much easier for a company to roll out on a single carrier before allowing the rest in - there would be too many changes otherwise.

However, the problem with this is that the carriers suddenly hold all the power - they can, on a whim, decide not to take a device based on a single failure of any number of tests and they will happily use that veto to get any concessions they want.

They were rubbing their hands with glee once they figured out they held the reigns and had Microsoft over a barrel regarding WM2003 - WM6.5/7. They were the single most annoying, uncooperative and unreasonable bunch of businesses that held back phone development for a number of years.

How Apple manage to skip carrier testing I have no idea, because I really don't think they'd let that happen. You don't ask for carrier testing, they do it and tell you everything that's broken or that they don't like. They will not ship without it.
 
2012-01-09 10:47:48 AM
somedude210: 0Icky0: somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested

Also, for whatever reason (and this may be a business deal that Google/Microsoft/Verizon/Att all made) but AT&T has a vastly larger and superior stock of WP7 phones than Verizon does, and vice versa for Android.

I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

/verizon phones, for whatever reason (at least in the Razr days) would have the same models (razr) but would have the crappy versions of them compared to AT&T, (cheap plastic compared to metal, smaller phone, easily breakable) and I never understood why
//att has the better quality phones, and lately the better quality service


It's because Verizon's network was CDMA, so the phones literally had to be manufactured to work on their network. The rest of the world and AT&T used GSM, so AT&T could take get phones the minute they dropped elsewhere in the world. The US is the only country in the world with more CDMA users than GSM users.
 
2012-01-09 10:48:45 AM
King Keepo: How Apple manage to skip carrier testing I have no idea, because I really don't think they'd let that happen.

Apple designs and manufactures the hardware. They have a pretty good handle on whether or not it's going to work.

Meanwhile, I'd love it if Android phone manufacturers could agree on a place to put the farking volume buttons.
 
2012-01-09 11:03:48 AM
This is a major negative for both Android and Windows phones... you usually don't know if you're on the update list, and even if they say your are, you're still not sure. With apple, they've been supporting their phones like 2 years out.
 
2012-01-09 11:23:57 AM
Lsherm: somedude210: 0Icky0: somedude210: As a man with a Windows phone, I have to say that it is a hell of a lot nicer than using android. I applaud them for their phone-iness

What do you like about it over Android?
/interested

Also, for whatever reason (and this may be a business deal that Google/Microsoft/Verizon/Att all made) but AT&T has a vastly larger and superior stock of WP7 phones than Verizon does, and vice versa for Android.

I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

/verizon phones, for whatever reason (at least in the Razr days) would have the same models (razr) but would have the crappy versions of them compared to AT&T, (cheap plastic compared to metal, smaller phone, easily breakable) and I never understood why
//att has the better quality phones, and lately the better quality service

It's because Verizon's network was CDMA, so the phones literally had to be manufactured to work on their network. The rest of the world and AT&T used GSM, so AT&T could take get phones the minute they dropped elsewhere in the world. The US is the only country in the world with more CDMA users than GSM users.


Huh, I never knew that. Well, I knew that they used CDMA but I didn't realize that that was the reason why they had crappier phones and that we have more CDMA users than GSM
 
2012-01-09 11:35:34 AM
madgonad: somedude210: I took a look at what Verizon offered on day and they had 1 windows phone, and it was a crappy phone at that. AT&T when I picked up mine had a good 4 phones $100

Verizon stopped releasing smartphones without LTE. That is why there haven't been any more than the one.

WP7 runs fine. Personally, I hate the way that the UI cuts off the edge of the screen. It seriously drives me nuts, like fingernails on a chalkboard nuts. That's why I would never consider WP7. That appears Metro UI will also get skipped as well.


Verizon is getting the Nokia Lumina 710 a non LTE windows phone. If Verizon wanted a LTE phone why not get the Lumina 900?
 
2012-01-09 11:39:39 AM
King Keepo: How Apple manage to skip carrier testing I have no idea,

They get tested but it only take a week for the update to go out
 
2012-01-09 11:46:53 AM
MightyPez:
If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.


What a bizarre feature to leave out. You sure?


dognose4: With apple, they've been supporting their phones like 2 years out.

The >2.5 year old 3GS still gets updates and runs the latest iOS 5. Some features are disabled due to hardware limitations, but most of it is there...
 
2012-01-09 11:48:11 AM
King Keepo: How Apple manage to skip carrier testing I have no idea, because I really don't think they'd let that happen. You don't ask for carrier testing, they do it and tell you everything that's broken or that they don't like. They will not ship without it.

I'm sure it helps that Apple does the support for the phones. No other manufacturer provides anywhere near the level of support Apple does(not an Apple fan, btw)
 
2012-01-09 01:11:45 PM
somedude210: Well I'm using a HTC HD7S and i love the fact that it's so streamlined and smooth (I would imagine, much the same way that the iPhone is streamlined) plus I can actually fully uninstall apps, a feature that Android phones didn't really have (at least when I was looking at getting my first smartphone)

I've never heard this one -- My android phone can uninstall apps just fine.
 
rpm
2012-01-09 01:18:40 PM
MightyPez: If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.

So give it a static lease. Done.
 
2012-01-09 01:20:07 PM
IC Stars: I've never heard this one -- My android phone can uninstall apps just fine.

Then either you have a Google experience phone or are being a little obtuse.

It's a common complaint that carriers load software on Android devices that can't be removed without a root, assuming the phone can be rooted.
 
2012-01-09 01:21:14 PM
rpm: MightyPez: If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.

So give it a static lease. Done.


That would work, but it's easier to assign one in the phone than it is to log on to a router or server and assign one.
 
2012-01-09 01:22:57 PM
animal900: MightyPez:
If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.

What a bizarre feature to leave out. You sure?


Positive.

rpm: MightyPez: If I had one gripe it's you can't change the IP on the wifi to a static address.

So give it a static lease. Done.


That is the work around, still should have the ability though. I share 1 public IP address with 2 devices due to only have the 1 publick address available so it's easier to set the ip than to go in and change the lease.
 
2012-01-09 01:27:09 PM
You can say that again.

Why would Microsoft want a telephone to cannibalize their desktop, tablet, and laptop business? It might be short-sighted, or it might be common sense, but either way, they have too much to lose to risk success with a mobile telephone platform when they virtually own the home computer and business computer platforms.

I discovered a really great newly launched site yesterday, called Sortable.com, via Treehugger. It compares consumer electronics using a sizeable list of specs you select. You can compare telephones, TVs, computers, etc. Treehugger was complaining that it didn't use green specs, but there are a couple that reflect performance, and otherwise it's a great and simple way to cut through the endless choice to get at what matters to you, whether it is price or some of the more rare technical features.

Sortable.com. They claim to take the pain out of buying, but even if that is not possible, it looks like they are taking a lot of wasted time and pain out of shopping.
 
2012-01-09 01:27:22 PM
As an Arrive owner, that disappoints me, but I'm betting that it comes back in some form or another.

It really bums me out that Apple seems to be the only one that keeps carriers accountable. Microsoft probably tried to keep the site open but the carriers didn't want it would be my guess.

/flawless operating system otherwise
 
2012-01-09 01:29:50 PM
I'm really loving my HTC Titan. The speed is fast enough without needing the LTE battery drain. I only wish it didn't cost so much to put my own custom apps on it without getting Chevron.
 
2012-01-09 02:13:55 PM
Wow, Microsoft not giving a damn about a consumer gadget, then writing the whole division off on their taxes (like they did with the far-superior-to-any-iCrap-player Zune)? I don't believe it!
 
2012-01-09 03:13:02 PM
brantgoose: You can say that again.

Why would Microsoft want a telephone to cannibalize their desktop, tablet, and laptop business? It might be short-sighted, or it might be common sense, but either way, they have too much to lose to risk success with a mobile telephone platform when they virtually own the home computer and business computer platforms.

I discovered a really great newly launched site yesterday, called Sortable.com, via Treehugger. It compares consumer electronics using a sizeable list of specs you select. You can compare telephones, TVs, computers, etc. Treehugger was complaining that it didn't use green specs, but there are a couple that reflect performance, and otherwise it's a great and simple way to cut through the endless choice to get at what matters to you, whether it is price or some of the more rare technical features.

Sortable.com. They claim to take the pain out of buying, but even if that is not possible, it looks like they are taking a lot of wasted time and pain out of shopping.


Want to know how I know what website for?
 
2012-01-09 03:13:43 PM
A challenger appears: brantgoose: You can say that again.

Why would Microsoft want a telephone to cannibalize their desktop, tablet, and laptop business? It might be short-sighted, or it might be common sense, but either way, they have too much to lose to risk success with a mobile telephone platform when they virtually own the home computer and business computer platforms.

I discovered a really great newly launched site yesterday, called Sortable.com, via Treehugger. It compares consumer electronics using a sizeable list of specs you select. You can compare telephones, TVs, computers, etc. Treehugger was complaining that it didn't use green specs, but there are a couple that reflect performance, and otherwise it's a great and simple way to cut through the endless choice to get at what matters to you, whether it is price or some of the more rare technical features.

Sortable.com. They claim to take the pain out of buying, but even if that is not possible, it looks like they are taking a lot of wasted time and pain out of shopping.

Want to know how I know what website for?


That would be what website you work for.
 
2012-01-09 03:41:13 PM
Lsherm: The US is the only country in the world with more CDMA users than GSM users.

That's not quite a true statement, Japan is entirely CDMA, they don't have any GSM networks...
 
2012-01-09 04:20:08 PM
Splinshints: They also stopped being so openly belligerent about licensing

You've never had an XP license up and farking disappear from an operational computer - ye olde "You're running a non-genuine copy of Windows" message. On that day, I learned that there's a magical flavor of XP license that expires after a certain amount of time. (Three years?)
 
2012-01-09 04:36:01 PM
drjekel_mrhyde:
/Ask anyone with a Galaxy S and S2 about Samsung update process


I think "Buy a new one" is stretching the definition of "update process" just a tad don't you?
 
2012-01-09 07:44:14 PM
lisarenee3505: Wow, Microsoft not giving a damn about a consumer gadget, then writing the whole division off on their taxes (like they did with the far-superior-to-any-iCrap-player Zune)? I don't believe it!

Yeah, but the tragic thing about Microsoft consumers is that they have absolutely no sense of pattern recognition.

So they got badly burned on Zune, WP6, the Kin and have finally downgraded to "cautiously optimistic" about Courier. However, behold WP7! Different story this time, I can feel it!
 
2012-01-10 12:17:23 AM
tgambitg: Lsherm: The US is the only country in the world with more CDMA users than GSM users.

That's not quite a true statement, Japan is entirely CDMA, they don't have any GSM networks...


Fair enough, but they're using UMTS, which is part CDMA, and they're moving away from it. Phones in Japan can (and have been able to) use a SIM chip to transfer service from phone to phone. That hasn't been true for US phones until the past four years. The new UMTS standards can link to GSM towers by design.
 
2012-01-10 02:23:38 AM
Lsherm: tgambitg: Lsherm: The US is the only country in the world with more CDMA users than GSM users.

That's not quite a true statement, Japan is entirely CDMA, they don't have any GSM networks...

Fair enough, but they're using UMTS, which is part CDMA, and they're moving away from it. Phones in Japan can (and have been able to) use a SIM chip to transfer service from phone to phone. That hasn't been true for US phones until the past four years. The new UMTS standards can link to GSM towers by design.


The US and Europe are moving towards LTE, which is combining CMDA and GSM, much in the same way. Unfortunately for us here in the States, the major carriers are trying to carve out specific frequency bands to keep the phones from being interoperable...
 
2012-01-10 10:47:32 PM
MightyPez: IC Stars: I've never heard this one -- My android phone can uninstall apps just fine.

Then either you have a Google experience phone or are being a little obtuse.

It's a common complaint that carriers load software on Android devices that can't be removed without a root, assuming the phone can be rooted.


It's Verizon, not Android.

And I agree about the UI being 'cut off' the screen.

And the comment about "take 5 minutes, and you'll understand most of it" is precisely the argument people use for iO/S - my 5 year old can use it!!!! YAY!

No. That's exactly why people are saying more and more "iO/S is feeling boring and tired".
Snappy or not, WP7 looks boring and tired but it's brand new. That can't be a good thing.
 
2012-01-11 08:11:36 AM
destardi: It's Verizon, not Android.

And Sprint... and AT&T... and T-Mobile...

The problem is Google has no policy regarding software loaded on the phones after manufacturers and carriers get a hold of it. With Apple or Microsoft, they have specific policies in place. With Apple, no third party software is allowed to be loaded by the carrier. With Microsoft, third party software can be loaded, but it has to conform to the Metro UI and be uninstallable by the end user like any other app would be.

This isn't the case for most Andorid devices (with the exception being, as I said, Google experience phones). Carriers and manufacturers can load whatever UI, NASCAR, NFL, Skype, whatever app they want and then lock the bootloader down so the end user has to root the phone to remove it.
 
2012-01-11 09:44:07 AM
MightyPez: With Microsoft, third party software can be loaded, but it has to conform to the Metro UI and be uninstallable by the end user like any other app would be.

My phone didn't come preloaded with it, actually, it came with a separate app store for the software.
 
2012-01-11 09:50:28 AM
bhcompy: MightyPez: With Microsoft, third party software can be loaded, but it has to conform to the Metro UI and be uninstallable by the end user like any other app would be.

My phone didn't come preloaded with it, actually, it came with a separate app store for the software.


Good for you. You must have a Google experience phone. But most Android phones are not Google experience phones, and come loaded with crapware from the carrier or manufacturer that can't be removed.
 
2012-01-11 10:14:19 AM
MightyPez: bhcompy: MightyPez: With Microsoft, third party software can be loaded, but it has to conform to the Metro UI and be uninstallable by the end user like any other app would be.

My phone didn't come preloaded with it, actually, it came with a separate app store for the software.

Good for you. You must have a Google experience phone. But most Android phones are not Google experience phones, and come loaded with crapware from the carrier or manufacturer that can't be removed.


No, I have a WP7 phone
 
2012-01-11 10:15:55 AM
To explain more: I have the regular app store, then I have an AT&T app store for AT&T apps and an LG app store for manufacturer apps. Phone came with the stock OS and that's it. It is not an unlocked model
 
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