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(Marketwatch)   Fed getting ready for another round of "Let's see how much money we can print"   (marketwatch.com) divider line 187
    More: Scary, Let's  
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8341 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2012 at 9:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-09 09:10:40 AM
I'll help.
 
2012-01-09 09:11:25 AM
Hyperinflation is sexy!
 
2012-01-09 09:11:36 AM
Is this the thread where we pretend that it's the Fed's fault that money is being hoarded by "job creators" who continue to lay people off? And where we pretend that there's no mechanism to pull this money back in when the "job creators" finally decide that the "uncertainty" that has led to huge profits is gone and they can spend again?

Oh, and is this the thread where we all start snorting cocaine off each others pinky fingers and acting like if everyone, Fed included, just continues to sit idly by somehow the market will magically get itself moving again?
 
2012-01-09 09:11:40 AM
Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.
 
2012-01-09 09:14:28 AM
No, bad. Wrong.

The economy is already goosed well enough. We're quite on our way to another artificial boom as the excess reserves from the last crisis worth of bailouts, QE1 and QE2 are finally seeping into circulation.

Another QE3 would be leaving the oil tanker throttle on full ahead just as the port is coming into view.
 
2012-01-09 09:15:20 AM
www.thesocialpenguinblog.com
 
2012-01-09 09:15:39 AM

superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.


THIS!!!!

People are ignoring this all over the world. Real inflation is negligible after already releasing about 2 TRILLION in extra dollars into the economy.

If this doesn't fit your world view...PERHAPS YOU SHOULD ADJUST YOUR WORLD VIEW.

Austerity advocates really piss me off.
 
2012-01-09 09:16:40 AM

superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.


Most people don't realize that the Fed is simply replacing money that is "disappearing" out of the velocity of money supply as people pay off debt (so we are nowhere near hyperinflation). Nor do they realize that deflation is a much worst prospect than modest inflation.
 
2012-01-09 09:17:21 AM
I didn't realize RON PAUL submits links to Fark.
 
2012-01-09 09:17:41 AM

superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.


Only because the core inflation numbers ignore the skyrocketing price of food and fuel, yet include the ongoing devaluation of the value of homes from their bubble peak.
 
2012-01-09 09:17:49 AM
You should be asking why the banks got zero percent loans; turned around and used payday loan service fronts to charge the people 400%. I know the answer, BTW, it is because they are co(ksu(ker$.

Greed should equal treason.
 
2012-01-09 09:17:55 AM

superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.


The current net inflation is near zero but that's because housing is plummeting. Meanwhile most of us are still paying our inflated mortgages at a fixed 30 year rate while the rest of our budget line items are ballooning at an alarming rate.
 
2012-01-09 09:18:01 AM
FTA:
" A growing number of economists, analysts and bond investors think"
Your problem, found it is.

I have a strong case that this is false.
 
2012-01-09 09:18:38 AM
Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation, the definition of which has been continually farked with,is close to 0 percent 5%.
 
2012-01-09 09:19:52 AM

the_geek: superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.

The current net inflation is near zero but that's because housing is plummeting. Meanwhile most of us are still paying our inflated mortgages at a fixed 30 year rate while the rest of our budget line items are ballooning at an alarming rate.


That is only because you have done a Slick Willie on the word "inflation".
Go buy some milk , bread and gas and report back to us again.
 
2012-01-09 09:23:59 AM
The calculation of inflation was altered in the 90's in order to help keep medicade and social security solvent to be more accurate.
 
2012-01-09 09:25:39 AM

MugzyBrown: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation, the definition of which has been continually farked with,is close to 0 percent 5%.


It's right up there with redefining who counts as unemployed and who does not so various politicians can manipulate the unemployment rate.

Or redefining what does and does not count as a crime so they can manipulate the crime statistics.

I understand that the chocolate ration is going up again! Doubleplusgood!
 
2012-01-09 09:26:12 AM
Milk, bread and gas are more expensive because oil is more scarce/expensive, and their prices are oil-dependent. Monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil. That's why they leave it out of core inflation numbers, which DO measure the effect of monetary policy.

The problem is not inflation; it's unemployment. Get people back to work and paying taxes, and the debt largely disappears.

If you want to stop oil-based inflation, use less oil. If only there were a president who had raised mpg requirements on cars and subsidized solar power.
 
2012-01-09 09:28:34 AM
FTFA: Kathleen Gaffney, co-portfolio manager for the Loomis Sayles Bond Fund. "The Fed would rather wait and see if the economy is actually slowing, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that."

Jobs Data in U.S. 'Encouraging,' New Fed Buying Is Unlikely, Bullard Says

His speech yesterday is based on a paper set to be released this month, titled "Death of a Theory." In it, the bank president says monetary policy works better than tax and spending changes in protecting the economy from shocks, even with the target for the overnight lending rate between banks close to zero since December 2008.

No it's not.
 
2012-01-09 09:28:42 AM
Eventually they're not going to be able to afford to print all that money.

/derp
 
2012-01-09 09:28:43 AM
They have just seen their currency rise against the Euro, because of the good outlook of the US economy, so they might as well.
 
2012-01-09 09:30:23 AM

mbillips: Milk, bread and gas are more expensive because oil is more scarce/expensive, and their prices are oil-dependent. Monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil. That's why they leave it out of core inflation numbers, which DO measure the effect of monetary policy.

The problem is not inflation; it's unemployment. Get people back to work and paying taxes, and the debt largely disappears.

If you want to stop oil-based inflation, use less oil. If only there were a president who had raised mpg requirements on cars and subsidized solar power.


Pick one:

Young
Fool
Soundbyte
 
2012-01-09 09:31:03 AM

Nurglitch: Eventually they're not going to be able to afford to print all that money.

/derp


Ever wonder why old books are printed on skin?
 
2012-01-09 09:33:33 AM
I'm all ears, subby. What's your plan?
 
2012-01-09 09:34:33 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: I'm all ears, subby. What's your plan?


My plan is to stop giving Goldman Sachs and other huge banks free money by cranking up the printing presses every quarter.
 
2012-01-09 09:35:06 AM

MugzyBrown: The calculation of inflation was altered in the 90's in order to help keep medicade and social security solvent to be more accurate.


The chocolate ratiob has been increased to 20 grams.
 
2012-01-09 09:35:57 AM

the_geek: superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.

The current net inflation is near zero but that's because housing is plummeting. Meanwhile most of us are still paying our inflated mortgages at a fixed 30 year rate while the rest of our budget line items are ballooning at an alarming rate.


Everyone I know refinanced from 6%+ down to 4% or below - most have shaved 15 years off the repayment schedule with a monthly payment no more than what they were paying before.

There is a fininite number of people who are really screwed - they are not far enough under water to consider walking away but they are enough underwater (or close to 100% loan to value) that they can not refinance. In this case beg/borrow/or steal enough money to get your loan to value at a point where you can refinance or decide to walk anyway.
 
2012-01-09 09:39:42 AM
The biggest problem is where the extra money goes... to the banks, who are already so awash in it they give each other bonuses that could pay off the mortgages of my entire neighborhood.

Get some of that cash out to us little people in the form of real job creation instead of claiming to be a job creator without backing that up.

Don't know how to actually do that, but anything's better than giving the banks more money with no/few strings attached.

The economy's screwed. Tons of people are to blame, from people who bought more home than they could afford, to people who gave risky loans because they could sell them before the risks became evident. The only people who can fix it, however, are the "1%" because they've got all the money.
 
2012-01-09 09:39:52 AM
Was this an issue in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 or 2008? Actually in some of those years, they didn't even bother to tell us how much money they were printing.

All my cash reserves are in change which can be melted in to bullets.
 
2012-01-09 09:40:24 AM

BullBearMS: superdude72: Why is this "scary." For all the fear-mongering, the current rate of inflation is close to 0 percent.

Only because the core inflation numbers ignore the skyrocketing price of food and fuel, yet include the ongoing devaluation of the value of homes from their bubble peak.


So much THIS. Besides, the Fed is only printing like mad to help balance the strong deflation the real economy is incurring. It has been working thusfar, the question is will it continue to work until the economy does pick back up? Oh, and that is assuming that the current global economic mechanism is sustainable enough to start back up.
 
2012-01-09 09:40:36 AM

mbillips: Milk, bread and gas are more expensive because oil is more scarce/expensive, and their prices are oil-dependent.


That's not the only reason food commodities are more expensive. The extreme weather of 2011 alone has had a sizable impact on the prices of some foods.

mbillips: Monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil.


Actually, if you want to get nitpicky about it, yes, extreme monetary policy could have a huge impact on oil because it's traded in dollars. I think what you mean to say was "sensible monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil".

mbillips: The problem is not inflation; it's unemployment.


Wrong. 8.5% unemployment isn't actually that terrible. Just because it's not what we're used to historically and not what we'd like ideally doesn't mean it's bad. The enormous wealth gap among workers is a much more disconcerting problem going forward than modest unemployment. You can't keep wringing the bottom 50% for their meager pittances forever.

mbillips: Get people back to work and paying taxes, and the debt largely disappears.


Somehow I think you haven't exactly crunched those numbers....

mbillips: If you want to stop oil-based inflation, use less oil. If only there were a president who had raised mpg requirements on cars and subsidized solar power.


Yea, except, at some point somebody's going to have to eat the cost of bringing the price on those alternatives down and making them more efficient. Good luck convincing anybody to do that as long as the prevailing "wisdom" of the U.S. is "fark all y'all, I got mine".
 
2012-01-09 09:43:35 AM

Dman33: the Fed is only printing like mad to help balance the strong deflation the real economy is incurring. It has been working thusfar, the question is will it continue to work until the economy does pick back up? Oh, and that is assuming that the current global economic mechanism is sustainable enough to start back up.


It's great for the big banks to keep getting money at 0% to lend out.

It's bad for the unemployed fixed/income folks to keep prices of food artificially high.


Those graphs people love to print that show real income growth by income level.. and the bottom half stays flat while the top section grows and grows? That's due to Fed policies of easy money over the past 15 -20 years.
 
2012-01-09 09:45:06 AM

Yugoboy: Don't know how to actually do that


That's actually a pretty easy one: stop giving bailouts and waves of cash to huge banks and corporations that just sit on it or loan it to each other and start giving it to small business to encourage expansion.

Small business is pretty much the only place that's hiring right now. Big businesses are still laying people off. Let's stop worrying about trying to convince them to stop laying people off and start trying to enable small business to hire those detached workers instead.

Oh, you want to keep laying people off so you can make your dividend and bonus payments without actually growing your company? Fark off, then. You get nothing and instead we try to enable your smaller competitors who want to take your place. Let's see what happens when you cut your engineering staff in half to so you can give their salaries to your investors and they all take their skill and knowledge to work for a competing startup across the street instead.
 
2012-01-09 09:45:54 AM

plcow: Most people don't realize that the Fed is simply replacing money that is "disappearing" out of the velocity of money supply as people pay off debt (so we are nowhere near hyperinflation). Nor do they realize that deflation is a much worst prospect than modest inflation.


lh6.googleusercontent.com


it's to replace hard, 'paper' currency because oil cartels and the drug cartels have it all. Why do you think the government is controlling the planet's resources, because people depend on them. The drugs follow the money. Or vice versa, the two go hand in hand, and you can be sure the CIA is running it. Evo Morales the country's first indiginous president of Bolivia banished the US DEA in 2008 in his country because he said they were actively protecting cocaine processing facilities acting outside the law of even bolivian military.

The military's over in the middle east protecting the opium fields, the pot fields (heroin, morphine, derivatives for pain killing). I have plenty of pics to support my argument i'm not going to put them up though.
 
2012-01-09 09:47:59 AM
Fizpez: "Everyone I know refinanced from 6%+ down to 4% or below "


... no-one you know is/was underwater?
 
2012-01-09 09:50:18 AM

Splinshints: mbillips: Milk, bread and gas are more expensive because oil is more scarce/expensive, and their prices are oil-dependent.

That's not the only reason food commodities are more expensive. The extreme weather of 2011 alone has had a sizable impact on the prices of some foods.

mbillips: Monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil.

Actually, if you want to get nitpicky about it, yes, extreme monetary policy could have a huge impact on oil because it's traded in dollars. I think what you mean to say was "sensible monetary policy of any sort is not going to affect the price of oil".

mbillips: The problem is not inflation; it's unemployment.

Wrong. 8.5% unemployment isn't actually that terrible.


That's where I stopped reading. Yes it is. It is terrible.
 
2012-01-09 09:50:49 AM

ringersol: Fizpez: "Everyone I know refinanced from 6%+ down to 4% or below "


... no-one you know is/was underwater?


No, because most people I know put 20% down when buying their house, but hey, what do I know, I'm only in new home construction ...

The real facepalm goes to anyone daft enough to only do the minimum 3% down ... you reap what you sow (which is why I still rent instead of buying a house on cheap credit).
 
2012-01-09 09:51:32 AM
Could we give some of that money to, like, us this time? If you would give me $50k, I can guarantee that about $40k of it would be pumped right back in to the economy.
 
2012-01-09 09:53:39 AM
I would like one pallet of $100 bills delivered to my address. As long as I get that, they may proceed with their plan.

/Eh, and they can, anyway. I ain't scairt!
 
2012-01-09 09:54:10 AM
It's cool. Once the Job Creators start feeling benevolent again, they will start employing more Real Americans to do good old fashion American work like building Good Ole Automobiles and appliances.
I heard that CEO wages were up 30% last year, so that means this year they'll start Creating Jobs and putting Real Americans back to work where they belong.
 
2012-01-09 09:57:21 AM
Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG (HDM) makes the presses for the mint, if I remember correctly.

HDM stock prices are up .014 in the past month and are predicted to continue rising. Since all those presses at the mint are going to be running at max, they will need bearings, platens, etc.

Your duty is clear: buy stock in HDM.

It's either that or go long on defensive weaponry.
 
2012-01-09 09:58:31 AM

MugzyBrown: Those graphs people love to print that show real income growth by income level.. and the bottom half stays flat while the top section grows and grows? That's due to Fed policies of easy money over the past 15 -20 years.


It certainly helps them, but there are a whole lot of other factors. The #1 reason is offshoring. The core reason that offshoring is a problem is because of our tax code. An American business can invest $100M in a factory in the US or in China and get the exact same tax benefit - HOWEVER, the factory in the US generates profits which will be taxed and jobs that make payroll which will be taxed. The factory in China will never provide any tax benefit by way of profits or payrolls to the US government. So the investor gets paid more, fewer Americans work, and the Federal government goes further in debt. No foreign investment should EVER provide a tax benefit here.

But really, I just LOVE these QEs. I want to go back to my Macroeconomics class and scream at my professor about how he and his book were completely WRONG about money supply and inflation being absolutely tied together.
 
2012-01-09 09:59:24 AM
Oh no! We'll have hyper inflation again! The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Really this time!

/ Not a repeat from every other time the Internet Expert Economist brigade predicted it
// OK it is
/// Does anyone listen to these blowhards anymore?
 
2012-01-09 09:59:32 AM
FTFA - "While a report Friday showed the U.S. unemployment rate fell to 8.5% in December, the job market is not expected to improve quickly enough for Fed policy-makers incumbent polititians, who are looking for a much bigger drop in the jobless rate to support solid economic growth support their re-election prospects this fall"

FIFY
 
2012-01-09 09:59:53 AM
the job market is not expected to improve quickly enough for Fed policy-makers, who are looking for a much bigger drop in the jobless rate to support solid economic growth.


Would like to point out that having a job isn't enough. I think the goal should be "having a job that pays a living wage" should be the goal. But that's just me at $9.00/hr
 
2012-01-09 10:01:04 AM
Clearly, the answer to a collapse in demand caused by massive private debts and decreasing proportions of resource transfers to labourers (ie. declining wages) is... moar supply-side economics???

These freaks really do think they can keep the party going indefinitely. At this rate, I'm going to have Marxists going "I told you so" in about ten years.
 
2012-01-09 10:02:18 AM

Coming on a Bicycle: That's where I stopped reading. Yes it is. It is terrible.


So, basically, you don't understand the difference between the words "high" and "terrible".

Noted.
 
2012-01-09 10:04:08 AM

snocone: Nurglitch: Eventually they're not going to be able to afford to print all that money.

/derp

Ever wonder why old books are printed on skin?


tonova.typepad.com
 
2012-01-09 10:06:04 AM

ringersol: Fizpez: "Everyone I know refinanced from 6%+ down to 4% or below "


... no-one you know is/was underwater?


Actually I was too close to 100% loan to value to refinance - we had 25k on a second mortagage locked in at 7.75% (remember when rates like that were "good?" ) and a primary at 5.75% - we tried to refinance twice and the appraised value fell every time. For property tax purposes it is appraised at 260k - the banks, however, were appraising it in the 190's at this time.

We borrowed 25k from my parents who were getting jack/squat on their CD's/checking account, waited 6 months and refinanced from 30 years at 5.75 to 15 years at 3.9%.

Not everyone has someone they can borrow money from but in this case it just might be worth raiding that "rainy day fund" "vacation fund" postponing a new car or whatever - if you don't have enough money to beg/borrow/steal then you might just be far enough under water to consider walking away.
 
2012-01-09 10:08:37 AM
Three years ago a twelve pack of beer cost right at ten bucks. Today it costs fifteen. I know I did not get 30 percent in raises. So, inflation disparate with income. And Fark that.
 
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