david_gaithersburg: Tax it! Isn't that the answer to all social problems?

No, it's not the answer to all social problems. And therefore, it is not a solution to any problem.

CUT TAXES NOT DEFENSE!

Wow, a thread about an appalling statistic of horrific form of assault that takes people years, decades sometimes, to heal from imediately devolves into a "ZOMG Feminazis r teh eVul!"

Stay classy Fark.

"Come on, I'm sure it's not all rape-rape."

limboslam: what_now: my link failed, because my link is a rapist:
Link (new window)

Wow. That is one damaged broad.

Yeah. And except for the fact that the name is different, I think I'm married to her.

Somewhere between 60 and 90% of rape is never reported. (obvious difficulties in determining the exact number.) Only 15% of reported cases result in a conviction.

Man up, nancy-boys. Even if every word in this article, or whatever bullshiat you linked to as 'proof' of the ebils of feminism, is an out an out lie, you're not being persecuted.

"Hey, something horrible is happening to those other people, but I might be hit by lightning while being eaten by a shark. Now that's a *real* outrage."

Mock26: doloresonthedottedline: Feminism and pornography is a spectacularly complex issue to sort out even for people who make a living studying this shiat. Personally, I tend to agree that mainstream pornography is part of the problem: it sexualizes violence against women, making it a more normal part of sexuality for everyone, whether or not they're naturally into that sort of thing. I say that as a woman who has been aware of being a masochist since before puberty, without the influence of trauma or pornography--it's just my nature. Pornography, in theory, isn't misogynistic; mainstream pornography, as it exists in our society, IS. That said, I still wasn't secure enough in my opinion to criticize my boyfriend about watching porn. I didn't even discuss it with him. He surprised me one night by rambling about how much he hates mainstream porn, though, for basically all the reasons feminists criticize it. He's dominant, and a bit sexually sadistic, so I didn't expect that--but he's also the least misogynistic man I've ever met.

Anyway, my point is that enjoying erotic material doesn't make you a rapist, but enjoying erotic material that focuses on degrading and exploiting one particular gender does support a culture of rape. Also, being exposed to misogynistic erotic material while you're still learning about your own sexuality can fark with your understanding of healthy sexuality to the point that you struggle to distinguish rape, and/or that your body learns to respond to images of sexu violence with arousal.

It sounds like you are a confusing BDSM with pornography, because there is very little violence in mainstream porn. The actors portray characters who willingly give consent to have sex. And in much of it it is the women who initiate the sex! What is violent about that?

As for BDSM, does it promote violence towards women when it is the woman who is the dominate one? Because, you know, there is just as much if not more female-domme "porn" as there is male-dom "porn."

Not confusing the two, I'm very aware of the distinctions. If you want to know more about the argument, I'm sure there are tons of discussions on Google. It isn't an unusual enough discussion to go into here, though.

Dominatrix stuff is problematic for another reason altogether. It isn't something I can explain, though I've read great descriptions before (can't remember where--sorry, I would find it for you if I could remember). Easier for me to notice through my relationship: there's a music video with Dita Von Teese online (YouTube) where she's a dominatrix. I loved the imagery but didn't really get that into it; my dominant boyfriend did. I noticed the distinction was that, while she was technically dominating a man, the emphasis was on the service she was providing to him--not on her agency or willpower. While the man was being technically dominated, it never felt like a power struggle she was winning. That's the norm with the dominatrix stereotype: an objectified woman performing a service for a man who, while being hurt and technically restrained, is still just being services by a generic woman. Whereas the psychological power play is the focus when a man is shown dominating a woman--and her eventual submission is clearly shown to b the result of his willpower and strength.

downstairs: No. Don't use my comments to go off on your misogynistic world view. Everything I say works the same for men and women.

Wait, so arguing for gender equality rather than male oppression and female supremacy counts as "misogyny" now?

Every post I've made has been about improving gender equality. If that's "misogyny", then you're just describing exactly how bad things have gotten.

Remember, nothing says 'good job' like a nice, firm pat on the rump!

cowgirl toffee: part of the problem: thamike: part of the problem: Rule 1: Never EVER believe a statistic given to you by some one who has an opinion on the topic.

That's what you took away from all that?

Did you go to college at a color-in placemat?

No, its what I took away from studying the use and application of statistics in public discourse.

For example, a member of one of the more popular show-up-at-your-house-with-phamplets religions recently tried to convince me that his preferred phophet was correct using statistcs on weather changes. (yeah, I know.....)

I explained to him that the numbers were correct but the correlations were crap and you cant use part of a statistical model and ignore the stuff you dont like.

I rely on accuracy 90% of the time.


Approves.

So if I tie her up its considered rape? Awesome, that will make the rape games we play even more authentic!!
Today the safe word is Schwangerschaftverhütungsmittel, THERE WILL BE NO SPEAKING!!

LowbrowDeluxe: Somewhere between 60 and 90% of rape is never reported. (obvious difficulties in determining the exact number.) Only 15% of reported cases result in a conviction.

Man up, nancy-boys. Even if every word in this article, or whatever bullshiat you linked to as 'proof' of the ebils of feminism, is an out an out lie, you're not being persecuted.

"Hey, something horrible is happening to those other people, but I might be hit by lightning while being eaten by a shark. Now that's a *real* outrage."

do you think that intentionally misrepresenting the a serious issue by putting out bad surveys does justice to real victims?

downstairs: doloresonthedottedline: Dominatrix stuff is problematic for another reason altogether. It isn't something I can explain, though I've read great descriptions before (can't remember where--sorry, I would find it for you if I could remember). Easier for me to notice through my relationship: there's a music video with Dita Von Teese online (YouTube) where she's a dominatrix. I loved the imagery but didn't really get that into it; my dominant boyfriend did. I noticed the distinction was that, while she was technically dominating a man, the emphasis was on the service she was providing to him--not on her agency or willpower. While the man was being technically dominated, it never felt like a power struggle she was winning. That's the norm with the dominatrix stereotype: an objectified woman performing a service for a man who, while being hurt and technically restrained, is still just being services by a generic woman. Whereas the psychological power play is the focus when a man is shown dominating a woman--and her eventual submission is clearly shown to b the result of his willpower and strength.

Sheesh.. you WAAAAY overthink sex. Sometimes both people are into kinky shiat. The end.

Yeah, because what I just said was clearly incompatible with "both people being into kinky shiat."


Of course, now I'm just wondering why I'm even trying. People who can understand subtlety and nuance probably already get it, or they're too farked up to. People who can't will never get it.

orclover: So if I tie her up its considered rape? Awesome, that will make the rape games we play even more authentic!!
Today the safe word is Schwangerschaftverhütungsmittel, THERE WILL BE NO SPEAKING!!

This seriously cracked me up.

Rincewind53: and much of the modern movement doesn't embrace the idea of gender superiority either.

I suspect that's why a lot of our modern popular media makes men embarrassing oafs and paints women as their physical, mental, and moral superiors. Because modern feminism and prevailing female opinions are about gender equality, and not supremacy.

thamike: KiplingKat872: Wow, a thread about an appalling statistic of horrific form of assault that takes people years, decades sometimes, to heal from imediately devolves into a "ZOMG Feminazis r teh eVul!"

Stay classy Fark.

Actually, it was an interesting article that was misrepresented by a misleading headline and has now devolved into people-- who not only didn't read the article but apparently have forgone reading the thread-- making snap judgments and spouting masturbatory comments just to get the same negative attention they most likely seek in their day-to-day relationships.

One page of people screaming that feminism was all about man hating, in the face of a discussion of rape, was about all I could take.

As a survivor if rape, I get sick and tired of men blaming women when they get called on their shiat. The fact that they are allowed to do so is one of the reason these statistics are so high.

This thread is f*cking hopeless.

BackAssward: cman: cowgirl toffee: MyNameIsMofuga: From experience I've found it a lot easier to give up smoking than raping. There is no rape patch or rape gum.

Well, there IS marriage.

Sorry to threadjack, but damn you are hot


She goes like a Mustang too. Though she apparently has no problem performing rape.

/She is hot, but you really can't trust any pic you see on the internet.

lazyguineapig33: LowbrowDeluxe: Somewhere between 60 and 90% of rape is never reported. (obvious difficulties in determining the exact number.) Only 15% of reported cases result in a conviction.

Man up, nancy-boys. Even if every word in this article, or whatever bullshiat you linked to as 'proof' of the ebils of feminism, is an out an out lie, you're not being persecuted.

"Hey, something horrible is happening to those other people, but I might be hit by lightning while being eaten by a shark. Now that's a *real* outrage."

do you think that intentionally misrepresenting the a serious issue by putting out bad surveys does justice to real victims?

These statisics are nothing new. You can look up the stats on the DoJ website and you will find them similar.

Obviously, the answer is to impose a sin tax on rape.

the_chief: For true equality, more men need to be raped.

Dave Chappelle on man rape (new window)

In almost all cases, the perpetrator was someone the victim knew (91.9%) and more than half of the time was their own partner.

This is why more people should get married, everyone knows you can't rape your wife.

lazyguineapig33: do you think that intentionally misrepresenting the a serious issue by putting out bad surveys does justice to real victims?

You sound concerned.

But for the record, I don't think it does shiat either way. You'd be yelling, screaming, crying, and 'just asking' if it was rape or rape-rape no matter what the statistics given were. Clearly you think the number of false allegations outweighs the number of actual rape cases, because clearly that's the far more important issue, yes?

downstairs: KiplingKat872: As a survivor if rape, I get sick and tired of men blaming women when they get called on their shiat

What "shiat" are you talking about?

This thread.

"There are is a shocking amount of rape in or society."

It did not even take twenty posts for the conversation to be strongarmed away from rape (and, you know, maybe discussing why it is such a problem in a supposedly enlightened society) to the evils of "manhating feminism."

In short, "Rape isn't that bad. Feminazis are just inflating the statistics."

I have no tolerance for that shiat.

namatad: I used to be you.
Until I rescued a homeless, terminally ill friend from death. She stayed with her rapist boyfriend because the alternative was literally living on the street (no money, no family, no job (terminally ill people dont typically work), turned down for aid multiple times)
after spending some time seeing the horrors of PTSD sufferers up close and personal gave me at least some understanding of the mental illness.

should everyone be responsible for their own choices? yes ....
are there people out there who are so farked up that they should not be allowed to make choices, because they always lead to being abused yet again? yes ...

is there a solution to this? nope

/one start? if you have been raped or abused, do something about it today. unless they will kill you. and then good luck.
/most insidious abuse is not the threat to kill the victim, but the threat to kill themselves. you would THINK that this would be a win/win scenario. nope. the victims still have a soul and do not want a death on it.... shudder

Before I respond, let me point out that my previous comments weren't so much directed at you as they were me ranting because what you said reminded me of something which annoys me. So I apologize if it came across as a personal attack against you or anyone you care about. Also, I'm not so ignorant as to assume it's really as easily done as I made it out to be - I'm no stranger to PTSD myself. But while it may not be that easy, nine times out of ten it really is that simple.

Sounds like your friend's circumstances were extraordinary enough to exempt her from the bulk of my bile - the threat of homelessness is a bit more severe than the threat of "being single" that usually seems to keep people in their abusive relationships. I'd try to suggest alternatives like "finding an understanding friend to stay with instead," but I know that things are complicated and I don't even know most of the story, let alone all of it.

So yeah, my judgement is meant for the more typical cases - we all know the ones I'm talking about.

KiplingKat872: downstairs: KiplingKat872: As a survivor if rape, I get sick and tired of men blaming women when they get called on their shiat

What "shiat" are you talking about?

This thread.

"There are is a shocking amount of rape in or society."

It did not even take twenty posts for the conversation to be strongarmed away from rape (and, you know, maybe discussing why it is such a problem in a supposedly enlightened society) to the evils of "manhating feminism."

In short, "Rape isn't that bad. Feminazis are just inflating the statistics."

I have no tolerance for that shiat.

Apparently you do, because you are still reading and posting.

downstairs: Thorak: Wait, so arguing for gender equality rather than male oppression and female supremacy counts as "misogyny" now?

Every post I've made has been about improving gender equality. If that's "misogyny", then you're just describing exactly how bad things have gotten.

I stopped at "male opression." I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting laid. Try a new bar. Its not that hard (although I guess according to this thread its rape.)

Ah, the old "you need to get laid."

Commonly used when feminists cannot defend their sexism, and need to distract the audience by insulting their opponent.

Stay classy.

Rincewind53: as if that was some sort of original observation and not something that the Right Wing has been attacking the movement for since the 1960s.

A republican once told me that smoking is bad for my health, therefore smoking must be good for you.

/don't get raped.

Ray_Peranus: the_chief: For true equality, more men need to be raped.

Dave Chappelle on man rape (new window)

Actually, the number of men who have been sexually assaulted is too damn high as well, and thats just the cases that are reported. If you think women have a hard time coming forward because they are ashamed of being raped, imagine how much harder it is for a man to process something like that.

jst3p: KiplingKat872: downstairs: KiplingKat872: As a survivor if rape, I get sick and tired of men blaming women when they get called on their shiat

What "shiat" are you talking about?

This thread.

"There are is a shocking amount of rape in or society."

It did not even take twenty posts for the conversation to be strongarmed away from rape (and, you know, maybe discussing why it is such a problem in a supposedly enlightened society) to the evils of "manhating feminism."

In short, "Rape isn't that bad. Feminazis are just inflating the statistics."

I have no tolerance for that shiat.

Apparently you do, because you are still reading and posting.

Thank you, that made no farking sense whatsoever.

downstairs: doloresonthedottedline: downstairs: doloresonthedottedline: Dominatrix stuff is problematic for another reason altogether. It isn't something I can explain, though I've read great descriptions before (can't remember where--sorry, I would find it for you if I could remember). Easier for me to notice through my relationship: there's a music video with Dita Von Teese online (YouTube) where she's a dominatrix. I loved the imagery but didn't really get that into it; my dominant boyfriend did. I noticed the distinction was that, while she was technically dominating a man, the emphasis was on the service she was providing to him--not on her agency or willpower. While the man was being technically dominated, it never felt like a power struggle she was winning. That's the norm with the dominatrix stereotype: an objectified woman performing a service for a man who, while being hurt and technically restrained, is still just being services by a generic woman. Whereas the psychological power play is the focus when a man is shown dominating a woman--and her eventual submission is clearly shown to b the result of his willpower and strength.

Sheesh.. you WAAAAY overthink sex. Sometimes both people are into kinky shiat. The end.

Yeah, because what I just said was clearly incompatible with "both people being into kinky shiat."


Of course, now I'm just wondering why I'm even trying. People who can understand subtlety and nuance probably already get it, or they're too farked up to. People who can't will never get it.

You said "Dominatrix stuff is problematic" and proceeded to explain all sorts of psycological stuff you have no idea about. By that I mean, you have no idea what's going on in the mind of the giver or receiver, man or woman. Yet are basing your opinion on this "knowledge".

We're talking about pornography and erotic media. In individual exchanges, the mind of the giver or receiver is key. In media representations, not so much--what matters is what people who are viewing it take away from it, whether conscious or subconscious. What matters is how it contributes to our culture.

thamike: KiplingKat872: One page of people screaming that feminism was all about man hating, in the face of a discussion of rape, was about all I could take.

Try reading the linked article that points out that the puzzling assertion that "more women get raped than smoke" is further complicated by the survey's vague interpretation of what constitutes "rape." That's a lot more interesting and dryly humorous than whatever vicarious hangups are being displayed in the thread.

I read the article. As I have said these statistics are nothing new. You can find similar ones in the DoJ website.