I only rape smokers.

It's not like you're going to hang around and have a cigarette after rape.

cman: Guys better watch out on your rape jokes. Got myself a 5 day vacation over one on TFD (and it didn't involve children, beastiality, or other stupid shiat like that).

Was it a joke about "rape" rape "rape" rape, or a joke about "rape rape" rape rape rape?

vernonFL: I only rape when I drink.

According to the survey, you were incapable of consenting to sex, and therefore were raped.

Rincewind53: GAT_00: Rincewind53: just taking a look at Wikipedia's article on the different variants of feminism and starting there

You're not even trying to not be insulting.

Well, I linked Wikipedia because it's actually one of the better sources for quick overviews on topics, so I actually do think it's the best place to start. So, that part isn't meant to be insulting; you'll be surprised how many people don't even think to read Wiki to find out even the broad basics of a movement before criticizing it.

As to the rest of my tone, yes, I'm sorry, but I get a bit worked up when people perpetuate the straw-man that "feminism today isn't about equality, it's about man-hating" as if that was some sort of original observation and not something that the Right Wing has been attacking the movement for since the 1960s. Even Betty Friedan got attacked for "man-hating" for suggesting that maybe women didn't like sitting in the kitchen all day and making their husbands dinner. So when someone like you, who I generally agree with on most points, starts regurgitating that tired old saw, I get a little annoyed and try to educate you.

Rincewind53: GAT_00: Rincewind53: just taking a look at Wikipedia's article on the different variants of feminism and starting there

You're not even trying to not be insulting.

Well, I linked Wikipedia because it's actually one of the better sources for quick overviews on topics, so I actually do think it's the best place to start. So, that part isn't meant to be insulting; you'll be surprised how many people don't even think to read Wiki to find out even the broad basics of a movement before criticizing it.

As to the rest of my tone, yes, I'm sorry, but I get a bit worked up when people perpetuate the straw-man that "feminism today isn't about equality, it's about man-hating" as if that was some sort of original observation and not something that the Right Wing has been attacking the movement for since the 1960s. Even Betty Friedan got attacked for "man-hating" for suggesting that maybe women didn't like sitting in the kitchen all day and making their husbands dinner. So when someone like you, who I generally agree with on most points, starts regurgitating that tired old saw, I get a little annoyed and try to educate you.

Seconded. Gat, I've had you on my favorites list for a while now because I like the things you have to say on the politics tab. But you really do tend to mis-characterize feminism; I've noticed it before and have generally opted not to get into it with you because I'm not sure where to start, and because, as a feminist who's also a Muslim, quite frankly I've got lots more egregious shiat on which to exhaust my mental energy.

But seriously. Don't be that guy. By my definition of feminism, you actually qualify as a feminist; you recognize white privilege, class privilege, American privilege, religious privilege. If you don't think the Taliban represents all Muslims, or that Pat Roberts represents all Christians, why insist that man-haters represent modern feminism? It's an ideology - like any other ideology, it's subject to lots of misuse. If you choose to characterize feminism that way, just know that you're making a *choice* that you can only make by deliberately ignoring evidence to the contrary.

I'm a feminist. I really like men. I like to interact with them, talk to them, learn from them, have sex with them, the whole shebang. I don't fit your definition of feminism. The man-haters don't outnumber people like me; they're just louder.

what_now: There was something going around the tubes recently that was saying that any man who had ever had sex with a woman who had one drink was a rapist, any man who ever had sex with a woman who was tied up was a rapist, any man who had ever watched porn was a rapist, any man who is anti abortion is a rapist, any man who has ever NOT been attracted to a woman because of her physical appearance....is a rapist.

Oh, here it is. It's lovely: Link (new window)

Your link doesn't say that, though.

I'm sure there is some overlap between those two groups.

THANKS FOR ALL THE RAPE, FARTBAMA!!

vernonFL: I only rape when I drink.

And I only drink when I rape.

From what_now's link:
I'm seeing a lot of "point by point refutations showing that these do not make a man a rapist," which makes it obvious that they have not read any of the comments, since I'm not even discussing rapists and that becomes very clear in the comments.

thomps: does that stat count all of the second-hand smokers who have their lungs forcibly filled with smoke without their consent?

That's more comparable to second-hand rape, which is when you sleep with a feminist's sister.

murdoch's_weeners: The man-haters don't outnumber people like me; they're just louder.

They also get more publicity from people seeking to discredit feminism.

what_now: my link failed, because my link is a rapist:
Link (new window)

Lol, all those things "support rape" like a bumper sticker "supports our troops."

Rincewind53: GAT_00: what_now: GAT_00: what_now: my link failed, because my link is a rapist:
Link (new window)

This is why I despise modern feminism. It has completely lost sight of actual problems and has turned into a man hating contest.

No. No it hasn't. Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights in addition to equal opportunities for women.

That's it. Just because some moron with a blog hates men, that doesn't mean feminism is unnecessary.

I didn't say it was unnecessary, I said it lost sight.

Feminism has become nothing more than a method to try to make women the superior gender over men and blame men for everything. Just because things were wrong for centuries doesn't mean continuing the same with roles flipped is good.

There are actual problems that need to be addressed. We still need actual equality as we're not there yet.

But I don't see feminism doing that. Your link? That's how I see feminism.

The fact that you see that link as representative of all feminism indicates a lack of desire to actually engage with the subject or actually start reading feminist literature and seeing that there is not such thing as a monolithic "feminist" movement. Feminism in its current form is broken up into multiple different schools of thought. One of them was represented by that link; that was representative of one the less sex-positive schools of thought.

But to paint the entire movement by your impressions of that is like accepting that it's okay for Republicans to paint the entire Democratic Party by what Alan Grayson or Bill Maher says, or say that Louis Farrakhan represents all black Muslims, or Michelle Bachmann represents all Republicans. It's taking the easy way out to just accept on the surface that you don't like something, or to pretend that feminism is just "a method to try to make women the superior gender." When you actually take the time to engage with the material you realize that most feminism is far from that. A lot of it is simply consciousness-raising about the fundamental and entrenched ways that male privilege oppresses women and men, and if you had actually read the comments on the article that was linked, you'll see that the author of the post specifically rejects the idea that all men are "rape-apologists" deliberately, and states that it's her belief that violence against women is not a part of who men are, but imposed on them by societal pressures from a very early age.

tl;dr version, read the stuff before you criticize it as man-hating.

Thank you. I wanted to say something like that, but my sleepy brain could only come up with a response of "You're an idiot," which isn't helpful.

There are more flavors of feminism than most people realize. Wikipedia actually has a really decent series on a bunch of them.

Why isn't someone using the exact same definitions for rape to measure % of men who are raped?

I'd be willing to bet it's fairly high.


Also, a response rate of 27.5% is an amazing response rate, why does this article state underwhelming?

what_now: Theaetetus: From what_now's link:
I'm seeing a lot of "point by point refutations showing that these do not make a man a rapist," which makes it obvious that they have not read any of the comments, since I'm not even discussing rapists and that becomes very clear in the comments.

No, those are people who "support rape" whatever the hell that means.

Yep. Bit different from:
"any man who had ever had sex with a woman who had one drink was a rapist, any man who ever had sex with a woman who was tied up was a rapist, any man who had ever watched porn was a rapist, any man who is anti abortion is a rapist, any man who has ever NOT been attracted to a woman because of her physical appearance....is a rapist."

In fact, it doesn't say that at all, and she goes out of her way to explain that, no, she isn't calling everyone a rapist.

Shostie: Eddie Adams from Torrance: That's pretty farking shameful.

I'd invite all Americans to join me in working to erase this national tragedy by taking up smoking.

You fool! Haven't you heard the phrase "if she smokes, she pokes?"

More smoking will only lead to more rape!

That made me lol so hard that I forgot for a second that I am a feminist.

/feminist tinfoil hat firmly back in place

That sir, was not funny.

Wow, apparently none of you actually read the entire article. Only the first couple of paragraphs are about the rape statistic based on a single survey.
The rest (and majority) of the article is all about the methodology of surveys.

Ya know... I once had a medical condition that caused me considerable physical pain. So severe at times that I couldn't do a damn thing. After a few months, I started getting paranoid. It was able to sneak up on me quite well. It effected how I looked at the world, and others to a great degree.

In comparison, hormones do the same thing to both sexes. I think this is all established fact anyway, but the experience I had really highlighted just how much it can effect a person.

So, makes you wonder how many rapes could be avoided if prostitution was legal and regulated. If any guy could get laid at any time with no social stigma, I am thinking that would eliminate most rapes.

We will probably never know.

Lanctwa: Also, a response rate of 27.5% is an amazing response rate, why does this article state underwhelming?

Check the next sentence:
"Although this rate is actually better than average for national telephone surveys, it still raises that question of whether the experience of sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence is different among those Americans in the 72.5% of the sample who were either away from their phone or who looked at the unknown number coming in and chose not to answer."

For true equality, more men need to be raped.

According to some government sources, in America, a woman is raped every two minutes. All I can say is that she must be very sore.

Theaetetus: what_now: Theaetetus: From what_now's link:
I'm seeing a lot of "point by point refutations showing that these do not make a man a rapist," which makes it obvious that they have not read any of the comments, since I'm not even discussing rapists and that becomes very clear in the comments.

No, those are people who "support rape" whatever the hell that means.

Yep. Bit different from:
"any man who had ever had sex with a woman who had one drink was a rapist, any man who ever had sex with a woman who was tied up was a rapist, any man who had ever watched porn was a rapist, any man who is anti abortion is a rapist, any man who has ever NOT been attracted to a woman because of her physical appearance....is a rapist."

In fact, it doesn't say that at all, and she goes out of her way to explain that, no, she isn't calling everyone a rapist.

Well, like with Paterno and child molesters, people tend to paint with broad brushstrokes when the crime is rape. It's easy for "supports rape" to = "rapist" if you're not thinking closely. And because no one thinks... why risk the association?

Aarontology: Or they were trying to give a comparison of numbers to make it easier for people to comprehend.

But apparently that's too difficult for subby to understand, being stupid and all.

Wait, you need a completely unrelated comparison to understand what "1 in 5" really means? And subby's the stupid one?

/not subby

MissK: Wow, apparently none of you actually read the entire article. Only the first couple of paragraphs are about the rape statistic based on a single survey.
The rest (and majority) of the article is all about the methodology of surveys.

On a blog called "Significance Magazine: Statistics Making Sense"? No, obviously it's about man-hating or something.

The United States is experiencing an epidemic of sexual violence. New findings from the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS), a study launched by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention in 2010, report that nearly 1 in 5 women are estimated to have been the victims of rape, defined as unwanted completed or attempted sexual penetration, including victims who did not have the capacity to give consent (owing to intoxication, for example).

I guess women lack free will when under the influence of any substance.

Too much caffeine? Proceed directly to jail, rapist!

FTFA: In almost all cases, the perpetrator was someone the victim knew (91.9%) and more than half of the time was their own partner.

So it's mostly a bunch of women who don't like putting up (and probably try to use sex as a weapon)?

non-issue.

bglove25:
Well, like with Paterno and child molesters, people tend to paint with broad brushstrokes when the crime is rape. It's easy for "supports rape" to = "rapist" if you're not thinking closely. And because no one thinks... why risk the association?

Because it shuts down the conversation that blog is attempting to have about a culture that, frequently unconsciously, implicitly condones and promotes rape.

I get my rape on amazon, too lazy to leave the house for it...

So if any women indulge in any behavior on that list toward men are they supporting rape too?
Whoops, that is supporting rape: "He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them."
That is an incredible list, it reads more like a tirade against men with a specific focus on 'Thought crime'.

Well Maobama just expanded the definition to include alcohol intoxication to include rape.

Fewer smokers than rapes victims? Seems to me that a certain anti-smoking campaign worked really well!

Why don't we just run the full anti-smoking campaign on rape? You know, Non-Raping sections in all restaurants and then certain public spaces until all public spaces are officially Non-Raping. Put higher taxes on duct tape and other rape paraphernalia along with clear Surgeon General's warnings in bold print?

I myself used to rape five under-aged girls every week. Now I'm down to one college student a month. I should be rape free sometime next year. New Year's resolutions really do work.

Man-hating radfems are a fringe group with no power who don't speak for the movement!!!1

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/radfem-hub-the-underbelly-of-a-h a te-movement/

DreamSnipers: So if any women indulge in any behavior on that list toward men are they supporting rape too?
Whoops, that is supporting rape: "He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them."
That is an incredible list, it reads more like a tirade against men with a specific focus on 'Thought crime'.

"If a man considers my post to be a legitimate social critique, then it shouldn't matter to him whether I, personally, would apply it to women. That simply isn't relevant and, again, it's placing the onus for fixing his problems on women. That isn't what this blog is about. And if a man does not consider my post to be a legitimate social critique, then, again, it shouldn't matter to him whether I apply it to women, because he doesn't consider it to have merit in the first place."

In all those studies somewhere between thirty and fifty percent of those labeled victims by the study did not consider themselves victims of rape.

Beware the feminazis

cowgirl toffee: I have tried to give up rape, but every time I keep hearing a voice in the back of my head telling me "why don't you just do one more rape? You are in control... you can stop at any time."

It's at that point, after I do one rape... I have to finish a whole pack of rapes.

cowgirl toffee: I have tried to give up rape, but every time I keep hearing a voice in the back of my head telling me "why don't you just do one more rape? You are in control... you can stop at any time."

It's at that point, after I do one rape... I have to finish a whole pack of rapes.

what_now: Amos Quito: All sex is rape.

Anyone who says otherwise is a rapist.

There was something going around the tubes recently that was saying that any man who had ever had sex with a woman who had one drink was a rapist, any man who ever had sex with a woman who was tied up was a rapist, any man who had ever watched porn was a rapist, any man who is anti abortion is a rapist, any man who has ever NOT been attracted to a woman because of her physical appearance....is a rapist.

Oh, here it is. It's lovely: Link (new window)

Not a rapist, but not anti-rape. The idea they're trying to get across is that if you aren't actively working toward change (with a lot of those points describing people who are supporting the culture that leads to women being attacked), you're part of the problem.

And yes, calling a man pro-rape for meeting some of the criteria on that list is extreme, but it isn't out of hate for men. The point of the extreme language is to try and get people to realize that a lot of seemingly harmless aspects of our society help normalize a culture where women are attacked.


Of course its a whole lot easier to say "feminists hate men" than to try and recognize that your own behavior may be supporting a culture of rape. Just don't pretend you aren't part of the problem when your response to learning that 20%+ of women being raped is that feminism is pointless these days.

/feminists don't criticize men to make them feel bad
//we want you to understand your role in supporting this culture--a process of self-reflection we put ourselves through as well
///yes, it sucks
////we don't expect perfection, just a willingness to learn and an ally in working against all this crap

If she smokes, she pokes, whether she wants to, or not.

will someone here provide a definition of rape plz? the article is incredibly vague.

"defined as unwanted completed or attempted sexual penetration, including victims who did not have the capacity to give consent"