DrippinBalls: davidphogan
Ron Paul may be a crazy old racist asshole, but at least he's better than your typical Republican.

I'll take the crazy old racist as prez for four years. Can't be any worse than what we've had for decades and I need four years of laughs.

Well, no, actually, you won't "take it" - it's not being offered to you.
While I concede that it would be highly entertaining to watch Obama grind that dweeby little redneck into the dirt like a lump of pigeon shiat, the leadership of the GOP don't agree with me, and it's not going to happen.

cmunic8r99: namatad: tomasso: By the way, Paul is being disingenuous when he said "I went." He didn't have the choice to stay out. He could either have entered the Army as a private or had to agree to join the medical corps for assignment as an officer to any branch of service where he was needed. He chose to the medical corps.

um
he didnt have a choice???
really ????? no one got deferments?
no one avoided the draft? no one used religion or conscientious objection to get a deferment??
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I predict that you are completely wrong.

Classifications (new window)

Interesting paragraph in that article:

President Kennedy set up Executive Order 11119 (signed on September 10, 1963), granting an exemption from conscription for married men between the ages of 19 and 26. President Johnson later rescinded the exemption for married men without children by Executive Order 11241 (signed on August 26, 1965 and going into effect on midnight of that date). However, married men with children or other dependents and men married before the Executive Order went into effect were still exempt. President Reagan revoked both of them with Executive Order 12553 (signed on February 25, 1986).

What year were Newt and Paul talking about?

Yea Gingrich turned 18 in 1961.

WaitWhatWhy: KiplingKat872: Close2TheEdge: I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, I appreciate any time that fat load gets his lunch handed to him. And having it served by Ron Paul, a strange freakish old man, makes it all the more delightful. Still, I don't subscribe to the idea that a President MUST have had military service to be qualified to order men into combat. One of the hallmarks of our democracy is civilian control of the military. Let the military get too clubby and start making all their own decisions, and you have the massive waste and fraud we have at best, and North Korea at worst.

What we really need in this country is a draft. The real chickenhawks are average citizens who scream GO BOMB IRAN BACK TO STONE AGE when they have no real risk of ever seeing combat. As a country, we might be more tempered in our decision to use military force if we had to really sacrifice in the use of it.

//BTW, I have a 17 year old son so I understand the risks here.

A draft during their lifetime didn't teach many of these clowns because they got out of it.

While I hate drafts (the best militaries are volunteer militaries, drafts are good for nothing but to create cannonfodder) do think some form of mandatory national service, like the Swiss have but for both genders, could be very useful.

I could get behind a "Citizenship requires service" platform, especially if there was a non-combat option available Congrats, you've graduated highschool/college. Now either spend two years helping make society better, or you don't get to vote/run for office/live here (Or whatever).
/Probably to close to SOCIALISMRH!#$@!#$! to ever take off here.

vygramul: It's almost as absurd to say that a governor shouldn't be willing to execute a criminal unless he has been a criminal himself.


Hmmm...is he talking about me?

This is the only clip of the debate my local news showed. Tells you something, doesn't it?

PanicMan: This is the only clip of the debate my local news showed. Tells you something, doesn't it?

That people still watch local news?

Newt sounds fat.

My dad was newly married with a one year old baby when he went to Viet Nam.

jso2897
DrippinBalls: davidphogan
Ron Paul may be a crazy old racist asshole, but at least he's better than your typical Republican.

I'll take the crazy old racist as prez for four years. Can't be any worse than what we've had for decades and I need four years of laughs.

Well, no, actually, you won't "take it" - it's not being offered to you.
While I concede that it would be highly entertaining to watch Obama grind that dweeby little redneck into the dirt like a lump of pigeon shiat, the leadership of the GOP don't agree with me, and it's not going to happen.

Versus Nappy McSocialist? You sound very commie. Go smoke a jay and scarf a mo'chelle burger & get back to me.

Mike_LowELL: Way to misinterpret his comments, idiots. Gingrich was pointing out that Democrats do not support the troops and Ron Paul was explaining that he agreed. How you concocted that ridiculous conversation by reading the article and watching the video pretty much sums up the Mainstream Liberal Media Experience™.

Damn you Mike Lowell with your comedy genius. Kibbler=pwned

vygramul: A military record can be a positive for a candidate, in my opinion, and sometimes a negative. I consider McCain's a positive, despite the smears by those who don't like him. (Not that I like McCain - I just object to distorting his military record.)

That being said, it's a laughable notion that one needs be of a military background to send troops to war. War is an extension of your nation's policies by force - not an extension of the military's desires. It's almost as absurd to say that a governor shouldn't be willing to execute a criminal unless he has been a criminal himself.

G.W. Bush used war as an extension of his military desires.

I just feel more comfortable when leaders sending young men and women into combat have some real notion of what the government is asking of them.

Rather false analogy at the end there, and also not very effective against those who do not support capital punishment.

Salt Lick Steady: Mart Laar's beard shaver: Newt was accurate.

ORLY? Because he flatly asserted that he didn't request a deferment. That's not true; he requested and obtained a student deferment before Sept. 1963, when Kennedy established the marriage exemption.

So, he lied. Or is it not considered a lie if you narrow the parameters and tweak the details just right?

Frederick: I find it very bothersome that a president who has never seen conflict -let alone never served in the military- could send troops into battle. I would hope that president defers to his better informed advisers/Generals on that call.

You should probably look into a little thing called the "Joint Chiefs of Staff". It exists for just that reason.

/expecting the president to be a military commander is the surest way to military dictatorship.

KiplingKat872: vygramul: A military record can be a positive for a candidate, in my opinion, and sometimes a negative. I consider McCain's a positive, despite the smears by those who don't like him. (Not that I like McCain - I just object to distorting his military record.)

That being said, it's a laughable notion that one needs be of a military background to send troops to war. War is an extension of your nation's policies by force - not an extension of the military's desires. It's almost as absurd to say that a governor shouldn't be willing to execute a criminal unless he has been a criminal himself.

G.W. Bush used war as an extension of his military desires to show daddy he was all growed up and to get Paul Wolfowitz to respect him.



There... that's better.

stoli n coke: Smells like Newtie avoiding his call to serve when his country needed him.

All you had to do was look in his car...

Kip Carter, [Newt's former campaign treasurer] who lived a few doors down from the couple, saw more than he wanted to. "We had been out working a football game -I think it was the Bowdon game- and we would split up. It was a Friday night. I had Newt's daughters, Jackie Sue and Kathy, with me. We were all supposed to meet back at this professor's house. It was a milk-and-cookies kind of shakedown thing, buck up the troops. I was cutting across the yard to go up the driveway. There was a car there. As I got to the car, I saw Newt in the passenger seat and one of the guys' wives with her head in his lap going up and down. Newt kind of turned and gave me his little-boy smile. Fortunately, Jackie Sue and Kathy were a lot younger and shorter then." ~ by Gail Sheehy Vanity Fair September 1995 - The Inner Quest Of Newt Gingrich - The Long March Of Newt Gingrich - FRONTLINE

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I can't wait until the Vietnam generation is out of politics. This tired old canard of who didn't get drafted why in every election cycle is...well.....tired. And I didn't see Gingrich getting mad, the end of the clip, he seems to have handled pretty well, shrugging and saying he wasn't eligible for the draft...

We all used to say that about WWII and the last WWII President was Chimpy's father, H.W. And around 1989, I began to realize how many of our politicians around the world were still governing based on WWII issues, which I thought, 45 years later, let it go, it's gone, right?

So as far as candidates and military service being an issue, we went right from WWII, 1945, to Vietnam, 1965 (Clinton), and it will probably leap from Vietnam 1975ish to 9/11 2001.

So good luck, honestly, on waiting for the Vietnam generation to be out of politics.

The same issue will probably be over some guy that served in Grenada, the Gulf War, Bosnia, Somalia, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

Luckily, we won't have any of the Darfur veterans to bullshiat us around. :(

Bathia_Mapes: As much as I dislike Ron Paul, that was indeed a true OH SNAP! moment.

This

I think there are plently of non-combatant public service jobs a national service could fill, though some, like firefighting and rescue, require more training than a one or two year program could fulfill (though there may be a way to get people preliminary training and funnell them into those jobs). But postal service, adminstrative support, road work, there are plenty if non combat niches a national service could fill.

Though the fact that the mountains of Switzerland are populated by armed, military trained men has a lot to be said for national defense.

I think it would also be helpful in teaching responsibility. I work in adminstration at a university, and the difference between students who have spent a couple years working (in the military or civilian fields), and those coming straight out of high school is becoming more extreme every semester.

At least I would be spared a couple dozen of these phone calls:

"Hi. I'm calling on behalf of my son who is out with his girlfriend right now. I know it's only five days before the semester starts, be we need to register him for classes since he couldn't be arsed to do so in October when his registration slot opened."

(Real call, my sarcasm added. I get e-mails from parents through the students e-mail to create their class schedule for their kids.)

I LOVE G.I. Bill students.

simsite9: Newt got his lunch eaten on that one. And you've gotta have balls to try and get any foodstuffs away from that tubby sack of shiat.

I disagree - Paul loses points (not that he has may left) with me for getting on his high horse about be too much of a dumbass to find a legal way around the draft.

Legitimate wars do not require conscription.

Sgt Otter: KiplingKat872: GAT_00: For the record, there were two Presidents who had a large number of Americans die on their watch who were not military members in some way - Wilson and FDR. Both of which obviously served in World Wars and both of which were precipitated by someone attacking us. Every other war we have ever had happened with a military veteran sending American troops to their death.

This is the dumbest farking argument. Unless farking WWIII breaks out, you statistically want someone who isn't a veteran as President if you don't want large number of troop deaths.

It's amazing how quickly so many people forget "Afghanistan & Iraq" and "Chimpy McFlightsuit."

Watching him belittle McCain and Kerry for their service was particularly galling.

Yes, it is a very good thing that we have a civilian controlled military, but we *just* saw that system fail utterly. So while yes, we have had presidents with no military experience treat the military responsibly, I understand and share the preferrence for a CiC who belongs to the club my father called "Them's That Been Shot At."

And former Air Force officer Rick Perry wants to go back into Iraq.

Curiously enough, despite being a C-130 pilot, most of Perry's photos from his Air Force days have him posing with fighter jets.

The jet in question is likely a T38, not a fighter but a training aircraft that looks like a fighter. At the end of flight school in the air force they take your picture ("the hero pose") with a T38.

Archae hippy: Sgt Otter: KiplingKat872: GAT_00: For the record, there were two Presidents who had a large number of Americans die on their watch who were not military members in some way - Wilson and FDR. Both of which obviously served in World Wars and both of which were precipitated by someone attacking us. Every other war we have ever had happened with a military veteran sending American troops to their death.

This is the dumbest farking argument. Unless farking WWIII breaks out, you statistically want someone who isn't a veteran as President if you don't want large number of troop deaths.

It's amazing how quickly so many people forget "Afghanistan & Iraq" and "Chimpy McFlightsuit."

Watching him belittle McCain and Kerry for their service was particularly galling.

Yes, it is a very good thing that we have a civilian controlled military, but we *just* saw that system fail utterly. So while yes, we have had presidents with no military experience treat the military responsibly, I understand and share the preferrence for a CiC who belongs to the club my father called "Them's That Been Shot At."

And former Air Force officer Rick Perry wants to go back into Iraq.

Curiously enough, despite being a C-130 pilot, most of Perry's photos from his Air Force days have him posing with fighter jets.

The jet in question is likely a T38, not a fighter but a training aircraft that looks like a fighter. At the end of flight school in the air force they take your picture ("the hero pose") with a T38.

They don't call them the Air Farce for nothing. ;)

/Dad was Navy pilot.

More_Like_A_Stain: Salt Lick Steady: Mart Laar's beard shaver: Newt was accurate.

ORLY? Because he flatly asserted that he didn't request a deferment. That's not true; he requested and obtained a student deferment before Sept. 1963, when Kennedy established the marriage exemption.

So, he lied. Or is it not considered a lie if you narrow the parameters and tweak the details just right?

At the very least, it falls short of that "whole truth" part of the witness oath.

DrippinBalls: jso2897
DrippinBalls: davidphogan
Ron Paul may be a crazy old racist asshole, but at least he's better than your typical Republican.

I'll take the crazy old racist as prez for four years. Can't be any worse than what we've had for decades and I need four years of laughs.

Well, no, actually, you won't "take it" - it's not being offered to you.
While I concede that it would be highly entertaining to watch Obama grind that dweeby little redneck into the dirt like a lump of pigeon shiat, the leadership of the GOP don't agree with me, and it's not going to happen.

Versus Nappy McSocialist? You sound very commie. Go smoke a jay and scarf a mo'chelle burger & get back to me.

If I had a jay and a burger, we wouldn't be having this conversation to begin with. :D

Matthews is getting under Sununu's skin on msnbc right now.

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Matthews is getting under Sununu's skin on msnbc right now.

Eeeew.

Mike_LowELL: Way to misinterpret his comments, idiots. Gingrich was pointing out that Democrats do not support the troops and Ron Paul was explaining that he agreed. How you concocted that ridiculous conversation by reading the article and watching the video pretty much sums up the Mainstream Liberal Media Experience™.

You know, I have your comments highlighted in a pretty shade of pink, but I forgot why... Until JUST NOW!

You sir, are officially farkied as "They see him trollin..."

///Don't wanna forget why your pink again.
///Shhhhh... Don't tell the other trolls YOUR my favorite!

Wow. That audience silence says it all. That's the first time in a while I've seen a complete repudiation on a debate like that. Usually these zingers are back and forth and muddled. Newt was nailed on his bogus draft dodging defense.

I still find it amazing we're still talking about Vietnam. I don't see us talking about Iraq in 40 years.

Lernaeus: simsite9: Newt got his lunch eaten on that one. And you've gotta have balls to try and get any foodstuffs away from that tubby sack of shiat.

I disagree - Paul loses points (not that he has may left) with me for getting on his high horse about be too much of a dumbass to find a legal way around the draft.

Legitimate wars do not require conscription.

Generally I agree with you. But for this particular exchange I take the opposite position, specifically because it is Gingrich. I didn't watch the debate, so had to look around for the longer exchange starting with the question. Gingrich goes around and claims he's gone through the same things as veterans because his father served. It's disingenuous, insulting to veterans, and representational to Gingrichs' whole attitude that he's better and above what is ok for the common people.

For me the reality is that Paul came out ahead because of how the debate moderators kept it narrowed to Paul and GIngrich, if it had been expanded to include those like Romney I think Paul would have come out behind.

I think the problem people have with chickenhawks is the enthusiasm they have for war. Their enthusiasm has never been dimmed by actually having to take personal risk in a war. What might be surprising to some and unsurprising to others is that the Republican elected officials are top-heavy with men who got deferments and basically hid behind their daddies. Ditto on their pundits.

What gets me is that they think they have a right to criticize the patriotism of men and women who put their ass on the line. It's even worse when they criticize people who volunteered to do it, especially when I know the person doing the criticizing was deferred for some bullshiat reason, like bad knees, but they go on to take up jogging every day. You just know that there wasn't a thing wrong with them, and that they persuaded a doctor to say there was to get them out of it.

Look up "chickenhawk database" and see who's who. Nearly the entire Republican leadership found a way to get out of serving when they had the opportunity.

See, this is why I could never get into politics. The second Newt called me a liar and having a history of false accusations I would have walked over to him and clobbered him in the nose and walked back to my podium and then stated that I did serve and had kids and was married while Newt wriggled on the floor bleeding.

/Probably what politics needs today

My maternal grandfather was 36 with four kids when he got drafted. He went to the European front and got hit by shrapnel about three weeks in and came home. He died at the age of 93 with an additional two kids in the interim. He was still 10x the man Newt is.

sheilanagig: Look up "chickenhawk database" and see who's who. Nearly the entire Republican leadership found a way to get out of serving when they had the opportunity.

Ah, and here's my favorite site for looking that up: Who Served (new window)

Space_Poet: sheilanagig: Look up "chickenhawk database" and see who's who. Nearly the entire Republican leadership found a way to get out of serving when they had the opportunity.

Ah, and here's my favorite site for looking that up: Who Served (new window)

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh getting out of serving for an infected ingrown hair on his ass has to take the prize for the most bullshiat excuse ever.

KiplingKat872: I think there are plently of non-combatant public service jobs a national service could fill, though some, like firefighting and rescue, require more training than a one or two year program could fulfill (though there may be a way to get people preliminary training and funnell them into those jobs). But postal service, adminstrative support, road work, there are plenty if non combat niches a national service could fill.

Though the fact that the mountains of Switzerland are populated by armed, military trained men has a lot to be said for national defense.

I think it would also be helpful in teaching responsibility. I work in adminstration at a university, and the difference between students who have spent a couple years working (in the military or civilian fields), and those coming straight out of high school is becoming more extreme every semester.

At least I would be spared a couple dozen of these phone calls:

"Hi. I'm calling on behalf of my son who is out with his girlfriend right now. I know it's only five days before the semester starts, be we need to register him for classes since he couldn't be arsed to do so in October when his registration slot opened."

(Real call, my sarcasm added. I get e-mails from parents through the students e-mail to create their class schedule for their kids.)

I LOVE G.I. Bill students.

Exactly, have them do civil service projects if nothing else. How much training does it take to work in a soup kitchen, clean up a park, etc?

GAT_00: Kennedy was key to starting the Vietnam War and also was responsible for the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

STOP LYING

sheilanagig: My maternal grandfather was 36 with four kids when he got drafted. He went to the European front and got hit by shrapnel about three weeks in and came home. He died at the age of 93 with an additional two kids in the interim. He was still 10x the man Newt is.

It's not like he had to do all those things to be 10X the man Newt is. Hell, I could carve a better man out of a banana.

jso2897: sheilanagig: My maternal grandfather was 36 with four kids when he got drafted. He went to the European front and got hit by shrapnel about three weeks in and came home. He died at the age of 93 with an additional two kids in the interim. He was still 10x the man Newt is.

It's not like he had to do all those things to be 10X the man Newt is. Hell, I could carve a better man out of a banana.

Oh, I know. For one thing, my grandparents on that side were married for 55 years, and my grandfather was a gentle and intelligent man. Those things by themselves would make him a better man than most of our politicians.

Gingrich just doesn't have any balls. He can't even tarnish the frontrunner without being slapped down by some ancient old bigot.

In fact, why is Newt still in this? He doesn't have any ground people in most primary states, and he's flipflopped on several things in the last week just to get more attention towards him. If anything, he should be going after Frothy who's bound to bomb out sooner or later. Why go after the corporate choice when Santorum has nowhere to go but down?

Not only is Newt a hypocrite and attention whore, he's also a dumb son of a biatch. And that's probably why he's losing: it's one thing to be a complete piece of shiat, but you have to either take orders or give them. And Gingrich can't do either. The Republicans dumped his ass in 1998, and they're doing the same thing now.

OH SNAP (new window)

johnnyrocket: I still find it amazing we're still talking about Vietnam. I don't see us talking about Iraq in 40 years.

Wars we still talk about despite the passage of time:

Viet Nam
WWII
WWI
Spanish American War (Cuban theater)
Civil War
Revolutionary War

Wars we never seem to talk about:

Panama
Granada
Korea
Spanish American War (Philippine theater)
Mexican War
War of 1812

Too soon to tell:

Iraq
Afghanistan

sheilanagig: Space_Poet: sheilanagig: Look up "chickenhawk database" and see who's who. Nearly the entire Republican leadership found a way to get out of serving when they had the opportunity.

Ah, and here's my favorite site for looking that up: Who Served (new window)

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh getting out of serving for an infected ingrown hair on his ass has to take the prize for the most bullshiat excuse ever.

You say that now, but an infected ass hair is a real problem with Santorum around.

Guntram Shatterhand: In fact, why is Newt still in this?

He probably would have dropped out long ago were it not for the unexpected bump at being the next contender to Not Be Romney. As it is he was in this only to promote future books and speaking engagements in order to keep his name in the media. You gotta pay those Tiffany bills somehow.