Well, crap. I might as well douse myself in BBQ sauce now and wait for the zombies.

Oh don't worry. All the rich people will be fine.

miss diminutive: Well, crap. I might as well douse myself in BBQ sauce now and wait for the zombies.

basemetal: I keep telling you that the metals you want to invest in are canned goods and ammo.

What if I want to invest in basemetals?

I guess the world has sped up so much that a week just isn't what it used to be. Things have become too slick and too fragile. Everything has to happen NOW and if it doesn't, everyone throws a tantrum.

A nice healthy solar flare or a couple of high-altitude EMP's and HOORAY!

Our days of boredom are over!

F*cking hard drive shortage.

unyon: miss diminutive: Well, crap. I might as well douse myself in BBQ sauce now and wait for the zombies.

Ok, you've officially been moved from the 'petite cutie' column to 'probably delicious'.

I guess I can take comfort in the fact that the zombies will probably go for someone with a little more meat on their bones.

Amos Quito: A nice healthy solar flare or a couple of high-altitude EMP's and HOORAY!

Our days of boredom are over!

Would that adversely affect my Netflix bandwidth on my cellphone? Because if it does, I don't want those things,

I guess we're all screwed when the Yellowstone mega-volcano blows in August?

andynz81: I guess the world has sped up so much that a week just isn't what it used to be. Things have become too slick and too fragile. Everything has to happen NOW and if it doesn't, everyone throws a tantrum.


It's not just that we want things now, it's that we NEED things NOW.

Back in the old days stores had inventory in the back. Now they depend on daily delivery. People used to stock their pantries. Now they run to the store every day.

In today's world everything runs on "just in time" clockwork. Disrupt the system, and everything falls into utter chaos in a matter of days.

Thanks to our reliance on communications and transportation technology, we are arguably more vulnerable now - as a species - than at any time in our history.

Froggy: And this is a surprise how? Manufacturers have worked hard towards just-in-time component delivery to minimize inventories. Supply chain efficiency and optimization has been a hallmark of the "new" economy.

Dude, it's JUST-ISN'T-THERE component delivery. "Just-In-Time"? WTF is this, some sort of sick joke? Are you mocking our glorious CEOverlords?

Froggy: If society is to maintain a working stock and inventory of everything needed to survives weeks, months or years after a disaster, we had best be prepared to store and maintain the stockpile.

There should be a specific manufacturer geared toward producing emergency food rations (as cheaply as possible) such as canned/dried goods that get distributed to municipalities based on what it would take to keep the that local population alive for a few weeks. Keep them stored near the most likely shelter sites. A year or so before the goods reach expiry give it to food banks/shelters and replace the supply.

Also... STOP SPENDING MORE THAN WE TAKE IN!!

Being trillions upon trillions of dollars in the red (and constantly rising) is unacceptable.

Cut the f*cking defense budget NOW! The US can defend it's borders and pretty much kick most countries asses ten times over. Time to ease up on the dick waving before Chinese business men own the dicks and use them as an aphrodisiac.

A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

/there are more immediately important things to worry about
//like the idiots who could potentially be elected to run this country (into the ground)
///yes, it's a good idea to have canned goods and a Bug Out Bag, but you can only stockpile so much before it starts going stale
////need to start eating on those dehydrated foods I bought back in 2007, the expiration dates are coming up and I don't want them all to go to waste, not at those prices

chicagogasman: I try to avoid these threads usually because they bring on a panic attack sometimes.. I live in downtown Chicago and realize how screwed I am when the shait hits the fan..I can't own a gun, live in the Gold coast, in a tall building with only two stairwells. So as I sell my business, probably next year, I am out of here. Costa Rica is starting to look more inviting by the minute.

I miss many things about being a city boy... but there are far more things I don't miss. Being trapped in the middle of urban sprawl is one of the things I don't miss.

CSB... when 9/11 went down they shut down the entire core of the city I lived in. My first thought was I had to get the f*ck out to the country. I gathered up some blunt instruments to use as weapons (no guns) and told my girlfriend that if sh*t started hitting the fan I was gonna carjack the first panel van I saw and we'd get the f*ck out.

She started crying.

So I scrapped that plan.

Huggermugger: A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

Uh... I've lived long enough to have seen quite a few natural disasters and terrorists attacks that completely put a wrench in the works of the global community.

Hell... in a way I lost my job and hopes of working in the film industry because of 9/11.

I've been tempted to order an emergency food supply kit from Sams and do a "Living on E-rations" blog. It would also help me hold out when the world goes to shiat, I have about eight cans of food right now.

/And I have just the closet for the pallet of rations.

Think of it this way... you pay and pay and pay to the government in exchange for certain things. Roads, emergency services, sewage systems, social safety nets, emergency relief, etc...

Yet, the government is proving more and more and more that they cannot (or more likely will not) provide these things.

Government. Second biggest scam since religion.

Huggermugger: ///yes, it's a good idea to have canned goods and a Bug Out Bag, but you can only stockpile so much before it starts going stale

I've got a storage room full of canned food and preserves from my garden and (providing the disaster happened in the summer) my garden could keep me going for a while. The issue is that if things really hit the fan I'm not exactly in a position to stop anyone from taking it all. If my neighbours are starving and I'm the only one on the block with smells of cooked food coming her basement, how long before they decide to just take it?

If the rules than govern polite society break down then being well off could get you killed.

lol bring it on I have plenty of food and water and cleaning produce....ok and condoms ladies come to my house when the disaster strikes i will be yr daddy ;)

Hey if you guys don't stop all this preparation for when things get bad you will become a laughing stock. Maybe even a survivalist nutjob. Or the last one standing. At the very least you will have a nice warm spot on a DHS watch list. Disaster preparedness is a hallmark of potential terror suspect now.

here to help: Huggermugger: A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

Uh... I've lived long enough to have seen quite a few natural disasters and terrorists attacks that completely put a wrench in the works of the global community.

Hell... in a way I lost my job and hopes of working in the film industry because of 9/11.

Were you reduced to killing squirrels with a slingshot and grilling them over a can of sterno? No? Well then "putting a wrench in..." /= "catastrophic nightmare"

Hey, I'm living in the DC metro area, and I've lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis, the riots of 1968, 9/11, the Beltway Sniper, and just in the last couple of years Snowpocalypse, Snowmageddon, PEPCO's week-long fcup-ups, an earthquake, and a hurricane. And I've got enough food on which to live for months, water for several weeks, gear up the wazoo in my car's trunk. And I frequently feel like it's really overkill. It's a PITA to have to constantly go through the stuff, take out and discard the expired things and then replenish, it's expensive, but I do it to be a responsible person. OTOH, I've lived through and seen enough to realize what is hysterical hyperbole.

Huggermugger: here to help: Huggermugger: A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

Uh... I've lived long enough to have seen quite a few natural disasters and terrorists attacks that completely put a wrench in the works of the global community.

Hell... in a way I lost my job and hopes of working in the film industry because of 9/11.

Were you reduced to killing squirrels with a slingshot and grilling them over a can of sterno? No? Well then "putting a wrench in..." /= "catastrophic nightmare"

Hey, I'm living in the DC metro area, and I've lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis, the riots of 1968, 9/11, the Beltway Sniper, and just in the last couple of years Snowpocalypse, Snowmageddon, PEPCO's week-long fcup-ups, an earthquake, and a hurricane. And I've got enough food on which to live for months, water for several weeks, gear up the wazoo in my car's trunk. And I frequently feel like it's really overkill. It's a PITA to have to constantly go through the stuff, take out and discard the expired things and then replenish, it's expensive, but I do it to be a responsible person. OTOH, I've lived through and seen enough to realize what is hysterical hyperbole.

Your comment was implying not many people would be affected to which I replied that indeed much more than a small number of people would be affected. Now you are implying that I meant everyone in the world would be panicking, cracking each others skulls open and feasting on the goo inside.

Nice jump.

Also I'm glad you are wealthy enough to horde supplies and have room to store it all. Most of the world is not so lucky. But I'm sure you think that's our own fault now don't you?

I have food and water saved, as well as a gun. In an apocalyptic disaster, I doubt I'll have much use for my gun, though. If others were starving, our family would not be able to turn anyone away. We'd probably end up dying along with everyone else. I guess if someone tried to take too much, I may fire a warning shot. I sometimes wonder, though, if I really have it in me to kill another person who wasn't directly threatening me or a loved one.

All this survivalism nonsense will only help you if the emergency lasts no more than a few weeks. Longer than that, and most of us will be screwed......MRE's and shotgun shells notwithstanding.

Long term emergencies will require us to organize on a smaller scale. Local production of agricultural products and manufactured goods, for example........employing a lot of 19th century type technology. What's really called for is something along the lines of how the Amish live. Unfortunately, most people prefer childish Rambo fantasies to reality, and that's why millions will die if there is a long term emergency.

It's not the natural disasters that cause the mess as much as the greed-induced disasters which cause everything to fall apart.

here to help: Huggermugger: here to help: Huggermugger: A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

Uh... I've lived long enough to have seen quite a few natural disasters and terrorists attacks that completely put a wrench in the works of the global community.

Hell... in a way I lost my job and hopes of working in the film industry because of 9/11.

Were you reduced to killing squirrels with a slingshot and grilling them over a can of sterno? No? Well then "putting a wrench in..." /= "catastrophic nightmare"

Hey, I'm living in the DC metro area, and I've lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis, the riots of 1968, 9/11, the Beltway Sniper, and just in the last couple of years Snowpocalypse, Snowmageddon, PEPCO's week-long fcup-ups, an earthquake, and a hurricane. And I've got enough food on which to live for months, water for several weeks, gear up the wazoo in my car's trunk. And I frequently feel like it's really overkill. It's a PITA to have to constantly go through the stuff, take out and discard the expired things and then replenish, it's expensive, but I do it to be a responsible person. OTOH, I've lived through and seen enough to realize what is hysterical hyperbole.

Your comment was implying not many people would be affected to which I replied that indeed much more than a small number of people would be affected. Now you are implying that I meant everyone in the world would be panicking, cracking each others skulls open and feasting on the goo inside.

Nice jump.

Also I'm glad you are wealthy enough to horde supplies and have room to store it all. Most of the world is not so lucky. But I'm sure you think that's our own fault now don't you?

here to help: Also I'm glad you are wealthy enough to horde supplies and have room to store it all. Most of the world is not so lucky. But I'm sure you think that's our own fault now don't you?

I live in a studio apartment (less than 300 sq ft) and don't make much $$. It's stored in little stashes in the closets and at the back of shelves in the pantry. You'd be amazed how much you can cram into a small space. What I do is buy a few cans of things every few weeks, mostly whatever's on sale like cans of corn or chili, rice and beans, it's quite modest except for the dehydrated food that I bought a few years ago. That was a bad decision since it's not food that's easily rotated into one's regular diet. A better idea was the 20-lb bag of rice I bought at the Chinese grocery store for very little $, as well as the huge bags of beans I bought at the Indian grocery.

Whatever you do, don't buy those pails of dehydrated "food" at Costco's. It may be cheap, but you wouldn't want to actually eat it. Try not to buy things that you would only eat if the alternative was cannibalizing your loved ones.

Living in an urban area would probably be a better idea, because every Tom, Dick and Harry would be heading out for the exurbs under the delusion that they could "live off the land" with just a handgun and a windup radio. Living in the suburbs would be agony because those people are such entitled brats that they could barely handle the most minimal hardships. Living in a lower-income urban area would be more tolerable because those people are already used to hard times and "making do".

I am concerned about what would happen if there was a perceived shortage and the fear sets in and changes people into vicious animals with stockpiles of weapons. Likely that people would have plenty of food at home to live on, but the feral emotions take over and suddenly people start thinking that the other guy wants their stuff. Things escalate fast when fear takes over people who have too many weapons and not enough maturity to not use them.

Huggermugger: A natural disaster, or a terrorist attack, would affect a relatively small number of people.

/there are more immediately important things to worry about
//like the idiots who could potentially be elected to run this country (into the ground)


You mean like the idiot that's already running it into the ground?

Fissile: All this survivalism nonsense will only help you if the emergency lasts no more than a few weeks. Longer than that, and most of us will be screwed......MRE's and shotgun shells notwithstanding.

Long term emergencies will require us to organize on a smaller scale. Local production of agricultural products and manufactured goods, for example........employing a lot of 19th century type technology. What's really called for is something along the lines of how the Amish live. Unfortunately, most people prefer childish Rambo fantasies to reality, and that's why millions will die if there is a long term emergency.


Any disaster that is technologically crippling and sufficiently widespread (solar flares, EMP's etc) would not be a "long term" disaster, it would be a permanent disaster. Nothing would ever return to "normal". Our infrastructure is too complex, delicate and interdependent to be easily or quickly restored, and social structure will collapse so quickly that we won't be able to coordinate any restoration.

Such an event would be viewed by future scientists (assuming there are any) as a bottleneck in human genetics. Our population would be dramatically reduced within the first few months, and much more in the ensuing decades.

As a networked, highly communicative society we hold vast amounts of knowledge and technical know-how, but the moment communications are severed we revert to the limited knowledge that we have as individuals - and we're all specialists - meaning that while we may be skilled at what we do and contribute to society, we are reliant on the skills of others to bring us what we need to both work and survive.

When the supply chain dissolves, it dissolves for everyone.

Huggermugger:

Living in an urban area would probably be a better idea, because every Tom, Dick and Harry would be heading out for the exurbs under the delusion that they could "live off the land" with just a handgun and a windup radio. Living in the suburbs would be agony because those people are such entitled brats that they could barely handle the most minimal hardships. Living in a lower-income urban area would be more tolerable because those people are already used to hard times and "making do".

=========

This is true.

The living off the land dreamers are some of the biggest fools I've seen. First off, most have no experience hunting, trapping or fishing. Oh yeah, how hard can it be? Let me tell you a little story about an executive for BMW who lived in upscale Ridgewood, NJ.......late executive for BMW that is. Mr. BMW big shot got the idea of hobby farming, so he bought a farm in upstate New York. One of the things he needed to do cut down a tree. How hard can that be? I mean the guys who do those kind of jobs are all pretty stupid. Right? They're not smart like BMW executives. Right? Well, Mr. Play Farmer got the tree cut down alright, and then it came time for stump removal. He tied the stump to the hitch on his tractor and floored it.........tractor flipped over backward and landed on top of BMW Uber-Genius. Ouch. Darwin 1 : BMW Genius 0 Hmmmm....maybe there's a bit more to rural trades than meets the eye.

Second, even if you knew how to hunt, and trap and fish, how long before all the wide game was depleted? Back in 1790 New Jersey had a population of 185,000. By 1790 there was not a single wild deer left in New Jersey. Not a single bear, not a single wild turkey. Pretty much all the game animals had been hunted out. In addition, all of the State's old growth forests had been cut down. All of this was accomplished by less than 200K people without the aid of power tools and using primitive single shot firearms. Today the state has a population of over 8 million and a wild deer herd of 150K. If even a small percentage of the population hit the woods looking to shoot deer, how long before the deer were all wiped out?

And for those who still think living off the land is a good idea, I'll wager that they never heard of Rabbit starvation

My brother is one of those nuts that thinks a big apocalypse IS coming and has guns, a tack vest (which is bullet proof), two rifles, two pistols, two shotguns, nightvision goggles, a throat mic, knives up the wazoo, survival skills up the wazoo... I've talked him out of the zombie apocalypse, but he honestly believes that 2012 will bring a huge magnetic pulse and all our tech will be wiped out and you'll that me, big brother, when I'm saving your ass, etc.

You know what? Maybe some of us will enjoy our lives now, and if the shiat hits the fan, oh I'll curse myself for not training 8 hours a day in survival. I'll be the first to admit I'll likely be one of the first to die. But then again, maybe I don't want to live in a total hell planet. Does anyone ever think of that? Living like that movie, the road, eating a cricket a week to survive? Maybe if I'm in that situation, I'll gladly do what has to be done. Who knows. But I'm not going to put myself through ridiculous training because something MIGHT happen.

Since the US and Canada were formed, has there been a time that we have had a genuine panic situation? One that isn't fabricated and many many people died? Not like the imagination from watching too much walking dead. One where a city is tearing itself apart? Millions die? I'm not sure it has ever happened. It's the concept that is scary to most. A concept I really can't see happening unless something totally crazy goes down. Super volcano, asteroid, etc. Something totally unseen and really really bad. Look at Japan, they have been hit by multiple bad things and aren't totally destroyed. I'm not saying everything is peachy keen but shiat, they are doing well considering.

/not preparing for anything but more beer. Will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Not surprising. JIT is really good for producing efficient markets, but capitalism has no foresight. It doesn't plan, it just reacts. It's humans' job to put the forethought in, but we haven't in the last 6 decades. I hope that changes soon, but until we get it down on a large scale, I'll at least try to practice it on the small scale.

"We're only one tank of gas away from Lord of the Flies."

I read that online somewhere, and chuckled about it.

On 9-12-2001 a gas station in Minneapolis decided to raise it's prices to something like seven dollars a gallon. People panicked and quickly lined up at that very station. A few other stations followed suit and the panic spread. They were eventually shut down and things returned to normal.

Most people are sheep, and will panic quite easily. Particularly when they don't have heat, electricity, gasoline or food and water, or they think they won't very soon.

What your ancestors might have looked like.



What your descendants might look like.

Sherman Potter: "We're only one tank of gas away from Lord of the Flies."

I read that online somewhere, and chuckled about it.

On 9-12-2001 a gas station in Minneapolis decided to raise it's prices to something like seven dollars a gallon. People panicked and quickly lined up at that very station. A few other stations followed suit and the panic spread. They were eventually shut down and things returned to normal.

Most people are sheep, and will panic quite easily. Particularly when they don't have heat, electricity, gasoline or food and water, or they think they won't very soon.


Yeah, but things get worse when that truck to resupply the fuel never shows up.

Ever.

here to help: Think of it this way... you pay and pay and pay to the government in exchange for certain things. Roads, emergency services, sewage systems, social safety nets, emergency relief, etc...

Yet, the government is proving more and more and more that they cannot (or more likely will not) provide these things.

Government. Second biggest scam since religion.

Religion IS a government!

Hopefully, we will get wiped out by a gamma ray burst before something like an EMP attack. A gamma ray burst will be like flash, your dead.