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(Addicting Info)   While Americans worry about the relationship status of the Kardashians, Congress is looking at a new way to strip Americans of their citizenship if they get all protest-y   (addictinginfo.org) divider line 252
    More: Scary, Americans  
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7206 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jan 2012 at 3:15 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-07 06:16:16 PM  

threeoclockrock: LOL. Let me help you. The communist party in China is also in power in the government. Guess what happens to people who protest the communist party there. They are treated as criminals.


I'm honestly not sure if this is sarcasm or not. In case it's not, Communist China was never a free or democratic society, as we've been since our inception.
 
2012-01-07 06:18:31 PM  

Wayne 985: Skirl Hutsenreiter: Yep. I hate to Godwin the thread...

Then don't. You're comparing the crime of exterminating 11 million innocent people to a policy of what is essentially banishment for terrorist activity. It's faulty logic and it trivializes the deaths of those people.



Bullshiat. Shiat like this starts small, and encroaches slowly.

The best way to honor the victims of tyranny is to prevent more lives and liberty being lost to tyranny.
 
2012-01-07 06:19:15 PM  

threeoclockrock: The communist party in China is also in power in the government. Guess what happens to people who protest the communist party there. They are treated as criminals.


So, yay, globalism?

/Fark no.
 
2012-01-07 06:23:46 PM  

Funbags: I'd like to vocally oppose this legislation, but I don't want to lose my citizenship and/or get disappeared.

In other words, mission accomplished.


3.bp.blogspot.com

Give the Senator HARUMPH!!!
 
2012-01-07 06:24:54 PM  
I never thought I'd see the end of our country in my lifetime but it is here! I wonder what form of dctator(government)ship we'll adopt to replace it?
 
2012-01-07 06:26:49 PM  
Here's the site that tracks the legislation (new window).

The way I see this is that if the men in black declare you guilty of "engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States" then you can lose your citizenship and then they don't have to attend to any of those pesky constitutional rights you might claim. Because you're not a citizen any more.

I think senators need to be drug tested.
 
2012-01-07 06:27:21 PM  
1) Lose my citizenship
2) sneak back in as an illegal
3) skip paying taxes
4) profit!
 
2012-01-07 06:27:28 PM  

cman: No way this will pass SCOTUS scrutiny.

Cannot remember the case name, but you cannot be stripped of citizenship as a punishment


Yet!
But it's inevitable in this age.
 
2012-01-07 06:28:55 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: That's the stupidest statement ever. I wasn't even able to vote until just after the 2004 election. The only Presidents I can really remember are President Obama and President Bush. I vaguely remember President Clinton, but I really didn't know a thing about politics in my early teens.

How exactly do I, and millions of Millennials, deserve this shiat?


It's not fair on an individual level. But as long as we're speaking in general terms, the answer is:

Because you don't vote, or you waste your vote on impotent protest candidates.

Speaking generationally, young people get exactly what they deserve for their refusal to participate, and irrational voting.
 
2012-01-07 06:32:16 PM  

bugontherug: HellRaisingHoosier: That's the stupidest statement ever. I wasn't even able to vote until just after the 2004 election. The only Presidents I can really remember are President Obama and President Bush. I vaguely remember President Clinton, but I really didn't know a thing about politics in my early teens.

How exactly do I, and millions of Millennials, deserve this shiat?


It's not fair on an individual level. But as long as we're speaking in general terms, the answer is:

Because you don't vote, or you waste your vote on impotent protest candidates.

Speaking generationally, young people get exactly what they deserve for their refusal to participate, and irrational voting.



The problem is that at this stage, there is no "rational" choice among the candidates. The two-party system is a good-cop bad-cop illusion.
 
2012-01-07 06:32:19 PM  

Trance750: GAT_00: cman: No way this will pass SCOTUS scrutiny.

Haha, yes it will.

I agree. This will be passed. Now they may have to slip it through the backdoor and do so in secret, but it will be passed.


Clarence Thomas is basically on the record saying that if school officials don't strip search kids looking for drugs.... I donno something stupid like america is doomed! It was one of the most retarded things ive ever heard.
 
2012-01-07 06:35:33 PM  

MrLint: Trance750: GAT_00: cman: No way this will pass SCOTUS scrutiny.

Haha, yes it will.

I agree. This will be passed. Now they may have to slip it through the backdoor and do so in secret, but it will be passed.

Clarence Thomas is basically on the record saying that if school officials don't strip search kids looking for drugs.... I donno something stupid like america is doomed! It was one of the most retarded things ive ever heard.


you are stupid if you can't even complete a sentence or get a quote right...and yet be up in arms about it.

check out this thing called google. it can help you search for things.
 
2012-01-07 06:37:31 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: MrLint: Trance750: GAT_00: cman: No way this will pass SCOTUS scrutiny.

Haha, yes it will.

I agree. This will be passed. Now they may have to slip it through the backdoor and do so in secret, but it will be passed.

Clarence Thomas is basically on the record saying that if school officials don't strip search kids looking for drugs.... I donno something stupid like america is doomed! It was one of the most retarded things ive ever heard.

you are stupid if you can't even complete a sentence or get a quote right...and yet be up in arms about it.

check out this thing called google. it can help you search for things.



Wait, weren't we talking about the Kardashians?
 
2012-01-07 06:40:24 PM  

Amos Quito: tenpoundsofcheese: MrLint: Trance750: GAT_00: cman: No way this will pass SCOTUS scrutiny.

Haha, yes it will.

I agree. This will be passed. Now they may have to slip it through the backdoor and do so in secret, but it will be passed.

Clarence Thomas is basically on the record saying that if school officials don't strip search kids looking for drugs.... I donno something stupid like america is doomed! It was one of the most retarded things ive ever heard.

you are stupid if you can't even complete a sentence or get a quote right...and yet be up in arms about it.

check out this thing called google. it can help you search for things.


Wait, weren't we talking about the Kardashians?


I think that Kim might get back together with that Australian guy. He seems cool and she really did seem to like him.

As to Clarence Thomas here is his comment about the case that Mr. Lint seemed to be so upset that America is doomed

""Preservation of order, discipline and safety in public schools is simply not the domain of the Constitution," he wrote".

Mr. Lint, loosen the tin foil, it is a bit too tight.
 
2012-01-07 06:40:53 PM  
I see where this is leading... Eventually, they'll strip all poor and middle class Americans of their citizenship and then deport them. Then they'll turn around and offer amnesty to all of the illegal immigrants in the country and then grant them citizenship.
 
2012-01-07 06:47:34 PM  

Wayne 985: Skirl Hutsenreiter: Yep. I hate to Godwin the thread...

Then don't. You're comparing the crime of exterminating 11 million innocent people to a policy of what is essentially banishment for terrorist activity. It's faulty logic and it trivializes the deaths of those people.

If you're legitimately concerned with the proposal, that's respectable, but don't go off the deep end and compare it to what may be the most heinous crime in human history.


You're the one comparing the scale of the two. I'm merely pointing out that there's a reason we don't strip people of citizenship, and it's because it enables horrible crimes against them.

\Apparently now we can't talk about lessons learned from history because it trivializes history.
 
2012-01-07 06:53:18 PM  

Amos Quito: The problem is that at this stage, there is no "rational" choice among the candidates. The two-party system is a good-cop bad-cop illusion.


Incorrect.

1) President Obama has ended the US practices of torture and rendition to torture. Romney will be under tremendous political pressure from his own party to begin them again.

2) President Obama has withdrawn our forces from Iraq. McCain wanted a "super surge" in Iraq, followed by continuing US occupation for at least another decade.

3) President Obama has not bombed Iran. McCain advocated escalation with Iran, and hinted at bombing it.

4) President Obama has softened our diplomatic stance toward the rest of the world, improving America's image and helping to restore it to the leadership position it held before Bush. McCain would most likely have continued Bush's bellicose stance, further alienating the US from our former allies, and strengthening the hand of those who seek to form a coalition against us.

5) President Obama signed into law all of the following legislation, nearly all of it passed over a solid wall of Republican opposition:

Link (new window)

Enacted
Main article: Acts of the 111th United States Congress

* January 29, 2009: Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-2
* February 4, 2009: Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act (SCHIP), Pub.L. 111-3
* February 17, 2009: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), Pub.L. 111-5
* March 11, 2009: Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, Pub.L. 111-8
* March 30, 2009: Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-11
* April 21, 2009: Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, Pub.L. 111-13
* May 20, 2009: Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-21
* May 20, 2009: Helping Families Save Their Homes Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-22
* May 22, 2009: Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-23
* May 22, 2009: Credit CARD Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-24
* June 22, 2009: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, as Division A of Pub.L. 111-31
* June 24, 2009: Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 including the Car Allowance Rebate System (Cash for Clunkers), Pub.L. 111-32
* October 28, 2009: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010, including the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, Pub.L. 111-84
* November 6, 2009: Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-92
* December 16, 2009: Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2010, Pub.L. 111-117
* February 12, 2010: Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act, as Title I of Pub.L. 111-139
* March 4, 2010: Travel Promotion Act of 2009, as Section 9 of Pub.L. 111-145
* March 18, 2010: Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act, Pub.L. 111-147
* March 23, 2010: Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Pub.L. 111-148
* March 30, 2010: Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, including the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act, Pub.L. 111-152
* May 5, 2010: Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-163
* July 1, 2010: Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-195
* July 21, 2010: Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, Pub.L. 111-203
* August 3, 2010: Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-220
* August 10, 2010: SPEECH Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-223
* September 27, 2010: Small Business Jobs and Credit Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-240
* December 8, 2010: Claims Resolution Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-291
* December 13, 2010: Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-296
* December 17, 2010: Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-312, H.R. 4853
* December 22, 2010: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-321, H.R. 2965
* January 2, 2011: James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-347, H.R. 847
* January 4, 2011: Shark Conservation Act, Pub.L. 111-348, H.R. 81
* January 4, 2011: Food Safety and Modernization Act, Pub.L. 111-353, H.R. 2751

Highlights from that list:

1) The Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act has eased the burden of paying back college loans for tens of millions of college graduates. It will continue to help bring the benefits of college education to more Americans.

2) S-CHIP provided health insurance to millions of children who would not have otherwise had it. The Republican Congress has declined to renew it.

3) The CARD Act has improved the terms under which millions of Americans deal with credit card corporations. The Republicans filibustered it.

4) The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act restored the ability of victims of sex discrimination to sue, after far right activists on the Supreme Court effectively abolished it in almost all cases.

No, Obama and the Democrats aren't perfect on every issue. But the notion that the difference between the parties is "illusion" as you say is simply uninformed. There is wide consensus on many issues, but the differences between the parties have never been more pronounced in a generation. There is a fundamental split in their philosophies of government, and that split is reflected in our politics.
 
2012-01-07 06:54:09 PM  
Gawdammit so much, this never-ending nonsense is depressing and debilitating.
 
2012-01-07 06:57:41 PM  
The internet is afire with paranoia over this proposed minor change U.S. Code 1481 "Enemy Expatriation Act". Which the OWS crowd mistakenly reads as eliminating the need for trial before a U.S. citizen could be stripped of citizenship for supporting a nation with which we are at war. This has been picked up by Ron Paul's camp and shown up on their site.

Here's the catch.

This entire brouhaha started with fringe blogger misunderstanding the proposed amendment not realizing that language could not be stricken from an existing law without the amendment specifically stating such. That goes for "and" "or" or even punctuation marks. More ironic even than that is the amendment actually STRENGTHENS civil liberties by requiring such acts to be "purposeful" thus giving an out to a citizen who is coerced into treason.

This is either an intentional act to confound the ignorant, and there seems to be a lot of you here in this thread, or an example of the persecution complex of the OWS crowd. This is not Egypt. You are not part of a "North American Spring".
 
2012-01-07 06:58:55 PM  

bugontherug: No, Obama and the Democrats aren't perfect on every issue. But the notion that the difference between the parties is "illusion" as you say is simply uninformed. There is wide consensus on many issues, but the differences between the parties have never been more pronounced in a generation. There is a fundamental split in their philosophies of government, and that split is reflected in our politics.



The fact that you buy into the illusion speaks more of the skill of the illusionists than to the lack of the illusion.

i1121.photobucket.com

/The more things change, the more they stay the same
 
2012-01-07 07:02:07 PM  

bugontherug: Incorrect.


Those are nice things, bug.

And not one of them is more important or worth more than your basic civil liberties. Not one.
 
2012-01-07 07:04:40 PM  

Amos Quito: The fact that you buy into the illusion speaks more of the skill of the illusionists than to the lack of the illusion.


Wha? You mean a "there's no difference between the parties" crier has no effective response to an extended, fact based argument highlighting substantial differences between the parties and their approaches to everything from foreign policy to social services?

Imagine that.

Of course, there's a good reason you didn't post a meaningful reply: you can't. The idea that "there's no difference between the parties" is one belied by even a casual look at actual facts.
 
2012-01-07 07:08:19 PM  
And all the blowhards call Ron Paul a kook.....

To think I can be deported back to Germany if I say something against the Government. Back In The USSR
 
2012-01-07 07:10:27 PM  

Antedeus: The internet is afire with paranoia over this proposed minor change U.S. Code 1481 "Enemy Expatriation Act". Which the OWS crowd mistakenly reads as eliminating the need for trial before a U.S. citizen could be stripped of citizenship for supporting a nation with which we are at war. This has been picked up by Ron Paul's camp and shown up on their site.

Here's the catch.

This entire brouhaha started with fringe blogger misunderstanding the proposed amendment not realizing that language could not be stricken from an existing law without the amendment specifically stating such. That goes for "and" "or" or even punctuation marks. More ironic even than that is the amendment actually STRENGTHENS civil liberties by requiring such acts to be "purposeful" thus giving an out to a citizen who is coerced into treason.

This is either an intentional act to confound the ignorant, and there seems to be a lot of you here in this thread, or an example of the persecution complex of the OWS crowd. This is not Egypt. You are not part of a "North American Spring".


OK, Comrade...I am sure you miss Dear Leader, too
 
2012-01-07 07:11:24 PM  

bugontherug: Amos Quito: The problem is that at this stage, there is no "rational" choice among the candidates. The two-party system is a good-cop bad-cop illusion.

Incorrect.

1) President Obama has ended the US practices of torture and rendition to torture. Romney will be under tremendous political pressure from his own party to begin them again.

according to the CIA, torture was always a bipartisan act, they briefed congressional leadership (including democrat party leadership) of it all during it's operation. it was the ultimate insurance policy of the bush administration. that administration itself ended torture before he was even sworn in for his second term. obama was not even yet a blip on the national radar screen.


2) President Obama has withdrawn our forces from Iraq. McCain wanted a "super surge" in Iraq, followed by continuing US occupation for at least another decade.

obama simply followed the SOFA signed between president bush and the Iraqi governemnt that required the removal of all u.s forces from Iraq. it was already law before Obama became president. there are 3x as many u.s. kids in afganistan fighting and 3x times as many u.s. kids dying for an unwinnable war as there were 3 years ago though.

3) President Obama has not bombed Iran. McCain advocated escalation with Iran, and hinted at bombing it.

obama started another war, this time with lybia, and has also bombed yemen.

4) President Obama has softened our diplomatic stance toward the rest of the world, improving America's image and helping to restore it to the leadership position it held before Bush. McCain would most likely have continued Bush's bellicose stance, further alienating the US from our former allies, and strengthening the hand of those who seek to form a coalition against us.

what is this I don't even. we are even more unloved than ever in that part of the world were they grow up wanting to strap bombs to their chests and blow us and themselves to bits.

5) President Obama signed into law all of the following legislation, nearly all of it passed over a solid wall of Republican opposition:


president obama just took away your right to habeas corpus, which goes all the way back to feudal times. you are lower than a serf at this point.

nothing has changed. he is exactly the same as bush. nad of course things are getting only worse. and they will continue to get worse as long as we keep ratcheting up this bullshiat.
 
2012-01-07 07:11:55 PM  

Churchy LaFemme: And not one of them is more important or worth more than your basic civil liberties. Not one.


To a child getting life saving medical treatment because he had health insurance thanks to SCHIP, basic civil liberties mean nothing. The soldier who won't die in the desert for a colossal foreign policy blunder of historic proportions may never know how important withdrawing from Iraq was. But his life will be saved because of the withdrawal.

Civil liberties are an important issue. But they're not the only issue. And as I explained yesterday, dropping out altogether or lodging an impotent protest vote are irrational reactions because a) neither will produce the change they seek, and 2) both increase the likelihood of increasing other harmful outcomes along with the diminution in civil liberties.
 
2012-01-07 07:13:19 PM  
So they want to be able to strip you of your citizenship if you are hostile to the USA. Wouldn't they be the first to go?
 
2012-01-07 07:19:19 PM  

bugontherug: Churchy LaFemme: And not one of them is more important or worth more than your basic civil liberties. Not one.

To a child getting life saving medical treatment because he had health insurance thanks to SCHIP, basic civil liberties mean nothing. The soldier who won't die in the desert for a colossal foreign policy blunder of historic proportions may never know how important withdrawing from Iraq was. But his life will be saved because of the withdrawal.

Civil liberties are an important issue. But they're not the only issue. And as I explained yesterday, dropping out altogether or lodging an impotent protest vote are irrational reactions because a) neither will produce the change they seek, and 2) both increase the likelihood of increasing other harmful outcomes along with the diminution in civil liberties.


we already had chip. we've had chip fro f*cking decades. nevermind the fact that if you new anything about chip, it actually overlaps quite a bit with medicaid. additionally it is not unusual to see chip have it's funding increased dramatically and the rolls increased drastically while passing with veto proof majorities with massive bipartisan support. claiming chip funding as raison de terre for supporting the Obama the Civil Liberty Destroyer is a bit absurd.
 
2012-01-07 07:21:44 PM  

relcec: according to the CIA, torture was always a bipartisan act, they briefed congressional leadership (including democrat party leadership) of it all during it's operation. it was the ultimate insurance policy of the bush administration. that administration itself ended torture before he was even sworn in for his second term. obama was not even yet a blip on the national radar screen.


Wild. As I understood it, for Congressional action to be "bipartisan," there must have been a vote. I guess when the Democrats were briefed and told they would be prosecuted if they disclosed what they knew, their silence effectively gave consent, creating a bipartisan consensus on one of history's most divisive American political issues.

Oh wait. No it didn't. You're just wrong. NM.

obama simply followed the SOFA signed between president bush and the Iraqi governemnt that required the removal of all u.s forces from Iraq.

Even if true, Obama still did it. The right wing didn't want to do it. And McCain probably wouldn't have followed through with it.

"B-b-but it was already law." And Congress basically rubber stamps whatever the president does on foreign policy. If McCain had wanted to continue the occupation, he could have.

there are 3x as many u.s. kids in afganistan fighting and 3x times as many u.s. kids dying for an unwinnable war as there were 3 years ago though.


Yes. Correcting colossal foreign policy blunders takes time. But having withdrawn our forces from Iraq, Obama has a lot of credibility when he says he'll withdraw them from Afghanistan.

obama started another war, this time with lybia, and has also bombed yemen.

Obama minimally intervened in Libya, costing not a single American casualty, and very little treasure. Bombing Iran, by contrast, would have almost certainly resulted in war with Iran, and yet another middle eastern quagmire for America to get sucked into.

what is this I don't even. we are even more unloved than ever in that part of the world were they grow up wanting to strap bombs to their chests and blow us and themselves to bits.


The last I checked, one part of the world does not constitute the rest of the world.

he is exactly the same as bush. nad of course things are getting only worse. and they will continue to get worse as long as we keep ratcheting up this bullshiat.

Have you considered voting third party? I think you should.
 
2012-01-07 07:24:11 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: OK, Comrade...I am sure you miss Dear Leader, too


You're calling me a commie? Mr. Nixon they told us you were dead!

This thread is making you guys look like complete idiots. You are biatching about something which does not exist. The amendments actually strengthen the rights of citizens. Again, the amendments do not remove the trial requirement.

What amazes me is that you morons get to vote.
 
2012-01-07 07:26:50 PM  
I mean the chip argument is absurd just on its face, without regard to the fact that obamacare is starting in about 2 f*cking minutes.
but whatever helps you sleep at night. just be sure to tell your kids you are one of the millions who voted not once but twice for this guy, and you knew better than most. you voted the seconded time after he had taken away your ancient right to a obtain hearing after being arrested by your governemnt, you mumbled some bullshiat about chip at the time...
 
2012-01-07 07:28:23 PM  

bugontherug: Civil liberties are an important issue. But they're not the only issue. And as I explained yesterday, dropping out altogether or lodging an impotent protest vote are irrational reactions because a) neither will produce the change they seek, and 2) both increase the likelihood of increasing other harmful outcomes along with the diminution in civil liberties.


Again, it's a hell of a thing to watch you folks convince yourselves that continuing on down our current path is necessary.

I think I'm going to start a new nonprofit called Cockpunches Across America. It'll facilitate the connection of folks like yourself, who so obsequiously capitulate on your civil liberties, with vets, civil rights marchers, and victims of repressive regimes so that they might help you to understand why we don't place our rights on the same level as other political policy issues.

Off to see if Cockpunchesacrossamerica.com is available!
 
2012-01-07 07:28:37 PM  
So if I go off and fight with the Taliban or start a Taliban unit here, I'm gonna lose my citizenship. Check. Gotcha.

/Trolled by an alarmist blog and fark headline, how does it work
 
2012-01-07 07:29:30 PM  
well like it or not, it's time to start looking at RON PAUL. Yeah you might think he's a little wacky but I guarantee you nothing like this will EVER leave his desk without a veto. Don't believe me, he's got a 30 year track record of constitutional voting in congress to back it up and has openly spoken out against the NDAA and SOPA several times
 
2012-01-07 07:30:22 PM  

Antedeus: What amazes me is that you morons get to vote.


You must be vawey ronery.
 
2012-01-07 07:31:16 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: So if I go off and fight with the Taliban or start a Taliban unit here, I'm gonna lose my citizenship. Check. Gotcha.

/Trolled by an alarmist blog and fark headline, how does it work


it's this kind of thinking that will be the end of America as we know it
 
2012-01-07 07:32:03 PM  
If you a Taliban fighter a Capri Sun, you're gonna lose your passport, dude.

/Don't do it
 
2012-01-07 07:33:15 PM  

relcec: we already had chip. we've had chip fro f*cking decades.


SCHIP was first enacted in 1997.

nevermind the fact that if you new anything about chip, it actually overlaps quite a bit with medicaid.

But not entirely. Instead it increases the area of coverage, providing health insurance to children who would not otherwise have had it.

additionally it is not unusual to see chip have it's funding increased dramatically and the rolls increased drastically while passing with veto proof majorities with massive bipartisan support.

Bush vetoed two attempts to expand SCHIP during his administration. Neither veto was overturned.

claiming chip funding as raison de terre for

I neither claimed it was a raison d'etre nor a raison de terre (snicker) for anything. I argued instead that it was one reason to support Obama. It is.

I did misunderstand though. The Democrats expanded the program, and it did not require renewal. All of my arguments still apply with equal force.

supporting the Obama the Civil Liberty Destroyer is a bit absurd.

Drama queen.

president obama just took away your right to habeas corpus, which goes all the way back to feudal times. you are lower than a serf at this point.

And if you understood the indefinite detention law or habeas corpus, you would understand that it only takes it away in cases of detention under that law. It sucks, yes. But the writ of habeas corpus still generally applies across America, both federally and to the states. You can put down your pitchfork. No serfdom for you.
 
2012-01-07 07:34:04 PM  

stevenr868: it's this kind of thinking that will be the end of America as we know it


Not exactly. Read the psychopath's senate bill (And make no mistake, Lieberman is a psychopath) and see what it does and to what law, then get back to yourself on that. It just adds buying a Capri Sun for the Taliban to the list of reasons you can lose your rights.

/Dude, don't do it
 
2012-01-07 07:39:09 PM  

Churchy LaFemme: Again, it's a hell of a thing to watch you folks convince yourselves that continuing on down our current path is necessary.


Allowing a Republican to win with a Republican Congress will improve neither civil liberties nor anything else. As I explained yesterday, the calculus is to cast your vote to maximize beneficial outcomes. That means accepting that you can't get all beneficial outcomes, and it also means casting your vote to minimize harmful outcomes.
 
2012-01-07 07:42:40 PM  

bugontherug: Amos Quito: The fact that you buy into the illusion speaks more of the skill of the illusionists than to the lack of the illusion.

Wha? You mean a "there's no difference between the parties" crier has no effective response to an extended, fact based argument highlighting substantial differences between the parties and their approaches to everything from foreign policy to social services?

Imagine that.

Of course, there's a good reason you didn't post a meaningful reply: you can't. The idea that "there's no difference between the parties" is one belied by even a casual look at actual facts.



Jack Nicholson once played the role of "The Joker" in a Batman movie.

In another movie, he played the role of a novelist.

Therefor Jack Nicholson is two different people.
 
2012-01-07 07:45:07 PM  

Amos Quito: Jack Nicholson once played the role of "The Joker" in a Batman movie.

In another movie, he played the role of a novelist.

Therefor Jack Nicholson is two different people.


Pass me that bong, man.
 
2012-01-07 07:46:43 PM  
a law like this, although it might seem a bit much, would likely not be used without overwhelming cause.
 
2012-01-07 07:52:51 PM  

bugontherug: The idea that "there's no difference between the parties" is one belied by even a casual look at actual facts.


Of course there is a difference between the "two parties", just like there is a difference between the "good cop" and the "bad cop".

But they're both cops, and they're simply playing both ends against the middle.

As long as they can keep the Left distracted by blaming the Right, and the Right distracted by blaming the Left, they have you right where they want you - befuddled and spinning in circles.

The same game gets played internationally: Political leaders who are unpopular domestically have long resorted to manufacturing conflicts with outside nations - it is an effective method for distracting and rallying the masses.

Politics, economics, religion/social ideology, RACISM... all of these can be used as tools to divide and control IF you understand the simplistic psychology of the mob.

/Don't forget to vote.
 
2012-01-07 07:54:24 PM  

RandomExcess: a law like this, although it might seem a bit much, would likely not be used without overwhelming cause.

Do not use your Amazon account to buy stuff for persons unknown in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

/This provision won't really have teeth until the revolution starts, then we'll be playing for our lives, since all the legislation relevant to making it legal to disappear rebels and insurgent fighters will already be in place.

 
2012-01-07 08:01:31 PM  
HotIgneous Intruder:
Do not use your Amazon account to buy stuff for persons unknown in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

/This provision won't really have teeth until the revolution starts, then we'll be playing for our lives, since all the legislation relevant to making it legal to disappear rebels and insurgent fighters will already be in place.

A law like this will come in handy when #Occupy goes far and becomes even more disruptive, trying to incite civil unrest and create instability and unrestrained class warfare against property holders.
 
2012-01-07 08:07:43 PM  

Wayne 985: Don't waste time getting angry over dumb blogs


It's not that it's dumb blogs, exactly. It's that these ideas go from fringe to mainstreams easily.
 
2012-01-07 08:09:58 PM  

bugontherug: That means accepting that you can't get all beneficial outcomes, and it also means casting your vote to minimize harmful outcomes.


Lesser evils are OK then?

No. Not any more. Do not vote for democrats or republicans if you want change.
 
2012-01-07 08:19:59 PM  

RandomExcess: a law like this, although it might seem a bit much, would likely not be used without overwhelming cause.



What scenario can you imagine?
 
2012-01-07 08:22:55 PM  

Aarontology: Just think.

if fifteen years ago someone told you the government would attempt to pass laws that would give them the authority to revoke your citizenship without due process and imprison you indefinitely, people would have laughed you out of town.



Yes, as little as ten years ago, when we began down this road, they did just that. As everyone bemoaned the Patriot Act, torture, warrantless wiretaps, and all the other post-9/11 bullshiat, right-wingers kept going "Oh yeah, it's just like Nazi Germany here... Oh noes! Look, bottom line is if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!!!"

And even now, Americans won't do shiat. They won't believe where we're headed till we get there. As I have long semi-joked, the point is stopping it before there are SS stormtroopers standing on the street corner. You don't wait until you get to the "papers, please!!!" and go "Now, THIS is fascism!!! We should totally do something about it."
 
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