In all seriousness:

Why should we be handing out aid to people who don't pay taxes to begin with?

That's really all it boils down to.

Now bring on the:

-if they were citizens then they could pay taxes
-what about the 1%ers who don't pay taxes
-you must hate brown people
-bushs fault
-Obama did it
-socialism
-facism

Actually now that I think about it, in response to my own question I wonder what the long run affects of giving an education to people who would otherwise remain in poverty have on tax revenues....and crime for that matter

Oh well, I guess both sides have their points.



Oh who am I kidding, this is the politics tab. Bring on the derp

coco ebert: They do pay taxes. Anyone who spends time in the U.S. pays taxes simply through consumption.

Far enough, but by that logic they should only receive aid proportional to the amount they pay in taxes since it's considerably less than the rest of ours

"It is not enough for me to succeed. Others must fail."

-- Gore Vidal

I predict accusations of racism in this thread

In 3.... 2... 1....

No financial aid for kids unless their mamas and papas are citizens?

Super Chronic: No financial aid for kids unless their mamas and papas are citizens?

Keyword: pay taxes like the rest of us thus contributing to the system. So yes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

clip - An ABC News Poll,[188] indicates that most respondents (67%) believe the United States is not doing enough to keep illegal immigrants from coming into the country and, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll[183] most Americans believe that US immigration policy needs either fundamental changes (41%) or to be completely rebuilt (49%).

In an opinion poll by Zogby International in 2005, voters were also asked, "Do you support or oppose the Bush administration's proposal to give millions of illegal aliens guest worker status and the opportunity to become citizens?" 35% gave their support; 56 percent disagreed. The same poll noted a huge majority, 81%, believes local and state police should help federal authorities enforce laws against illegal immigration

coco ebert: They do pay taxes. Anyone who spends time in the U.S. pays taxes simply through consumption.

Oh good I consume stuff too, so I shouldnt have to pay property or income tax either then? Awesome!

Does that aid come from solely within the state of CA or are we kicking in money from across the country cause CA changed its internal rules?

I thought fed trumps state....how can you make more lax immigration laws but not more strict immigration laws on the state level without getting into trouble?

Frank N Stein: I predict accusations of racism in this thread

In 3.... 2... 1....

And a dismissive (or at best a lip service ) attitude for the americans displaced by illegal scab labor ( who are often poor ) .

You're going to pay to help somehow, that's the point of a society like America. You will either help pay for their education, their health care, their incarceration, something. I don't think people really understand how rare the bootstrappy entrepreneur is any more. Most of them have support from someone, family at the very least. And most of them had at least a good education. The days of 8th graders leaving school to found a successful business is lost in the sands of time.

You want America to continue leading the world, you better figure out how to start funding education better.

SoCalSurfer: Why should we be handing out aid to people who don't pay taxes to begin with?

So they can vote for Democrats.

That's all it's ever about.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: They also pay payroll and income taxes

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Here's a phrase for you to look up.

"Off the books".

Super Chronic: No financial aid for kids unless their mamas and papas are citizens?

Children of illegal immigrants can get financial aid if the student is a citizen or legal resident, this is about students who are illegal not their parents.

WhackingDay: You want America to continue leading the world, you better figure out how to start funding education better.

We can start by not taking in millions of the poorest of the poor from other countries, and then have to spend enormous amounts of money to educate their children.

California doesnt have money and the schools are having budget cuts. Rather than giving financial aid they should be pushing them out the door or at least charging considerably more.

This will result in higher tuitions across the board to pay for the entitlements to illegals. The days of near-free education in cali are over and will soon catch up to the rest of the county. I love how everyone supports these feel good measures without a thought as to how they will be paid for.

California thinks illegal kids are more important than legal citizens.

randomjsa: SoCalSurfer: Why should we be handing out aid to people who don't pay taxes to begin with?

So they can vote for Democrats.

That's all it's ever about.
______________________________________

God you're an idiot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR200 6 061800613.html

clip - The Bush administration, which is vowing to crack down on U.S. companies that hire illegal workers, virtually abandoned such employer sanctions before it began pushing to overhaul U.S. immigration laws last year, government statistics show.

But Hispanics might vote and goddamit we need those votes.

I have a compromise: those here illegally can attend college and get loans without harrassment, but they have to pay out-of-state tuition fees.

/Hey, California is broke. The colleges and universities have to get money from somewhere.

DrewCurtisJr: WhackingDay: You want America to continue leading the world, you better figure out how to start funding education better.

We can start by not taking in millions of the poorest of the poor from other countries, and then have to spend enormous amounts of money to educate their children.

Why do you hate America?

Many illegal immigrants pay taxes of all kinds. They certainly pay relevant sales taxes, many of them have fake papers and pay the normal income and employment taxes that we wage earners do. Many own property and pay property tax. Of course, many are part of a fully underground economy too.

Some of what is driving the Dream Act is that many of these kids were brought here as very young children or as babies. The US is all they've every known. Some of them don't even know they are illegal until they turn 16 and mom and dad tell them they can't get a legal driver's license. They may not speak any language other than English.

I'll just say I'm more than happy to pay tax dollars to support education and skilled job training for all and would allow a path to citizenship of some kind certainly for these kids and most likely for others.

Has anyone noted that the guy who tried to do the signature gathering was busted for trying to carry a gun on an airplane (new window)? His story was that he's carrying it for protection and hid it in his briefcase so his wife wouldn't find out and then forgot about it. Yes, that's really his cunning plan. I'd take his citizenship away for major derp and take most any other illegal in his place.

LadySusan: Has anyone noted that the guy who tried to do the signature gathering was busted for trying to carry a gun on an airplane (new window)? His story was that he's carrying it for protection and hid it in his briefcase so his wife wouldn't find out and then forgot about it.

It also doesn't surprise me he's a representative from San Bernardino either.

LadySusan: Many illegal immigrants pay taxes of all kinds. They certainly pay relevant sales taxes, many of them have fake papers and pay the normal income and employment taxes that we wage earners do. Many own property and pay property tax. Of course, many are part of a fully underground economy too.

Some of what is driving the Dream Act is that many of these kids were brought here as very young children or as babies. The US is all they've every known. Some of them don't even know they are illegal until they turn 16 and mom and dad tell them they can't get a legal driver's license. They may not speak any language other than English.

I'll just say I'm more than happy to pay tax dollars to support education and skilled job training for all and would allow a path to citizenship of some kind certainly for these kids and most likely for others.

Has anyone noted that the guy who tried to do the signature gathering was busted for trying to carry a gun on an airplane (new window)? His story was that he's carrying it for protection and hid it in his briefcase so his wife wouldn't find out and then forgot about it. Yes, that's really his cunning plan. I'd take his citizenship away for major derp and take most any other illegal in his place.

Okay then you can pay for them

Fart_Machine: Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate our poor? Or maybe hate is too strong a word, maybe you just don't care one way or the other.

Do you think the past 25+ years of illegal immigration has made America a better place?

SoCalSurfer: coco ebert: They do pay taxes. Anyone who spends time in the U.S. pays taxes simply through consumption.

Far enough, but by that logic they should only receive aid proportional to the amount they pay in taxes since it's considerably less than the rest of ours

I'm willing to bet that many illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than you do.

LadySusan: Many illegal immigrants pay taxes of all kinds. They certainly pay relevant sales taxes, many of them have fake papers and pay the normal income and employment taxes that we wage earners do. Many own property and pay property tax. Of course, many are part of a fully underground economy too.

Some of what is driving the Dream Act is that many of these kids were brought here as very young children or as babies. The US is all they've every known. Some of them don't even know they are illegal until they turn 16 and mom and dad tell them they can't get a legal driver's license. They may not speak any language other than English.

I'll just say I'm more than happy to pay tax dollars to support education and skilled job training for all and would allow a path to citizenship of some kind certainly for these kids and most likely for others.

Has anyone noted that the guy who tried to do the signature gathering was busted for trying to carry a gun on an airplane (new window)? His story was that he's carrying it for protection and hid it in his briefcase so his wife wouldn't find out and then forgot about it. Yes, that's really his cunning plan. I'd take his citizenship away for major derp and take most any other illegal in his place.

Also do you even live in ca? The school system is broke along with the rest of the state.

How do you expect to pay for all this? Ca already is one of the highest taxed states in the country

SoCalSurfer: In all seriousness:

Why should we be handing out aid to people who don't pay taxes to begin with?

It's not like legal college students are paying much income tax, either.

Fart_Machine: DrewCurtisJr: WhackingDay: You want America to continue leading the world, you better figure out how to start funding education better.

We can start by not taking in millions of the poorest of the poor from other countries, and then have to spend enormous amounts of money to educate their children.

Why do you hate America?

Values change. Anybody that tries to make their values persistent is in for a frustrating experience. At one time we were a nation of farmers but that value is gone. The idea that we must always be a nation of immigrants is another value whose time has passed.( see David Ricardos work ).

[www.thewaythefutureblogs.com image 504x745]

DrewCurtisJr: Fart_Machine: Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate our poor? Or maybe hate is too strong a word, maybe you just don't care one way or the other.

Don't blame me. That stupid biatch carrying the torch wants those huddled masses.

Do you think the past 25+ years of illegal immigration has made America a better place?

We should have stopped before the let the damn Irish over here.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: The vast majority of illegals are working using falsified documentation and are having taxes withheld all year.

citation ?

action: severely punish companies that hire undocumented workers to make the cost outweigh the risk. consequence: no more undocumented workers. problem solved. oh wait, that would be soshulism or something.

SoCalSurfer: Also do you even live in ca?

Your profile says you live in Chicago.

Fart_Machine: SoCalSurfer: Also do you even live in ca?

Your profile says you live in Chicago.

Ooops, my bad. Wrong profile. Doh!

LadySusan: Many illegal immigrants pay taxes of all kinds. They certainly pay relevant sales taxes, many of them have fake papers and pay the normal income and employment taxes that we wage earners do. Many own property and pay property tax. Of course, many are part of a fully underground economy too.

Some of what is driving the Dream Act is that many of these kids were brought here as very young children or as babies. The US is all they've every known. Some of them don't even know they are illegal until they turn 16 and mom and dad tell them they can't get a legal driver's license. They may not speak any language other than English.

I'll just say I'm more than happy to pay tax dollars to support education and skilled job training for all and would allow a path to citizenship of some kind certainly for these kids and most likely for others.

Has anyone noted that the guy who tried to do the signature gathering was busted for trying to carry a gun on an airplane (new window)? His story was that he's carrying it for protection and hid it in his briefcase so his wife wouldn't find out and then forgot about it. Yes, that's really his cunning plan. I'd take his citizenship away for major derp and take most any other illegal in his place.

Higher taxes? That should have been in the law. California is running a deficit, so you'll likely have to cut social services for legal citizens too.

No, this is going to result in higher tuitions, period. So the days of getting a highly subsidized education are over. Soon we'll have even more of our young bussing tables every weekend to pay off their 50k plus debt on that degree their parents had for free.

This isn't about expanding education, it's about limiting it.

Guess that's not a problem if you already got yours. You get to feel self-righteous so that's all that matters

We should prosecute harshly and fully employers AND employees involved in this.

http://www.cis.org/IdentityTheft

not that any of you will read it.

DrewCurtisJr: Why do you hate our poor? Or maybe hate is too strong a word, maybe you just don't care one way or the other.

The illegal immigrant apologists have been living off of phony compassion. I've heard many of them say "we'll if you can be replaced by an unskilled illegal immigrant you're pretty lame" which is very similar to the kind of callous attitude the "hate the poor" republicans have towards the the least fortunate americans.

Super Chronic: No financial aid for kids unless their mamas and papas are citizens?

I can vouch for their citizenship.


Well, except for the guy in the upper left. He looks Canadian.

Fart_Machine: Don't blame me. That stupid biatch carrying the torch wants those huddled masses.

That is the Statue of Liberty not the Statue of Immigration. And that was a poem not policy.


We should have stopped before the let the damn Irish over here.

Yes, life was very harsh for Irish immigrants, and many lived in horrible conditions, it certainly would not have hurt to put a limit on their migration. Is that your point.

Bob16: DrewCurtisJr: Why do you hate our poor? Or maybe hate is too strong a word, maybe you just don't care one way or the other.

The illegal immigrant apologists have been living off of phony compassion. I've heard many of them say "we'll if you can be replaced by an unskilled illegal immigrant you're pretty lame" which is very similar to the kind of callous attitude the "hate the poor" republicans have towards the the least fortunate americans.

I wonder how many of them are baby boomers. Their entire defense basically amounts to: "I got mine... Now fark off"

DrewCurtisJr: Fart_Machine: Don't blame me. That stupid biatch carrying the torch wants those huddled masses.

That is the Statue of Liberty not the Statue of Immigration. And that was a poem not policy.


We should have stopped before the let the damn Irish over here.

Yes, life was very harsh for Irish immigrants, and many lived in horrible conditions, it certainly would not have hurt to put a limit on their migration. Is that your point.

Swingandamiss.jpg

Illegal immigrants are the latest scapegoats.

The rich in America stay in power by playing the poor against the poor.

Hey, poor Americans, it's because of illegal immigrants that your life sucks, not because of the rich who are shipping jobs to other countries to increase their profits.

Wehn I stetard lokniog itno where the mneoy was cmoing from to buy off the plioitcians and svubert the imtarmigion lwas of the wlord, I came arcoss what may be the root of mnay of our prmbleos. Fiat Money.

No mteatr how mcuh rael mnoey pepole can put tgepther to build their coutnires the way they want there are tshoe that can print up what ever it tekas to dictate their way.


Click to embiggen

It seems to me that once some had the ability to print up what ever it takes to get their way they also had the ability to buy things like politicians that would do their bidding. That also gave them the ability to push and push and push these concepts no matter how many times we beat them down. With unlimited funds they can keep rising like those dead guys in the scary movies that keep rising back up when you move on to something else or are naked or something.

Not only do they get what they want done they also seem to be stiffing us with the bill and collecting interest.

Think about it. How many times did we say no to giving some, more privileges than a regular unhyphenated citizen?

Snarfangel: Super Chronic: No financial aid for kids unless their mamas and papas are citizens?

I can vouch for their citizenship.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 260x304]

Well, except for the guy in the upper left. He looks Canadian.

Win.

Love for Subby, headline was well played.