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(Crooks & Liars)   Stupid: New Hampshire GOP passes new bill allowing parents the choice to not educate their children. HILARIOUS: Request must be made in writing   (crooksandliars.com) divider line 234
    More: Ironic, New Hampshire GOP, New Hampshire Republicans, New Hampshire, Magna Carta, New Hampshire primary, George R. R. Martin, public information, Laconia  
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6359 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2012 at 8:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-06 09:02:08 AM
If you really object to the curriculum, couldn't you just home school the kids? I don't know of any state that doesn't allow this. Sending the kids to school, picking and choosing the classes that they can take (which happens in higher grades any way) and then deciding 'hey teacher, i'm going to send my kid to school, but instead of teaching her this, this, and this, we'll be covering these subjects instead, with these biases, but by all means, teach my child is...impractical to say the least.

Either homeschool or don't.
 
2012-01-06 09:02:12 AM

badhatharry: Uninterested parents send their kids to public school.


Man, there is a lot of obfuscation in this thread.

It is entirely possible for a parent to be very, very interested in not having their child be taught by the state, yet not terribly interested in teaching them themselves or otherwise providing for a reasonable education. Or even if interested, not really capable.

I'm not sure why so many people in here don't seem to want to understand the issues posed by this legislation.
 
2012-01-06 09:03:14 AM
Interesting. I could see this being horribly abused, as I've had parents complain about the strangest things in curriculum. It doesn't happen often, but when it does I'm left baffled. I've taught evolution as part of world history for the last five years without a single comment or complaint from students or parents, but teaching about Buddhist beliefs got a complaint, as did a lesson that looked at life expectancies in various countries.
 
2012-01-06 09:03:28 AM

bugontherug: pdee: Then 1 sentence later: As worded, any parent could object to the entire curriculum and substitute whatever they wanted instead, with no measurement or assessment or accountability for that "alternative material" requirement, which means compulsory education would be dead, dead, dead.

Well, I think their point is that there's no enforcement mechanism for that requirement. But I don't see why whatever normal enforcement mechanism exists wouldn't apply to a parent who abused this law.


A parent can already object and substitute whatever they want. It's called being homeschooled. I'm with you on this one bugontherug, people are taking this argument down the wrong route. This has nothing to do with compulsory education as a whole or not.

Instead we should be asking if individual parents with no training in child education whatsoever should be the ones compelling schools to teach or not teach what they wish. With money, a parent with a 4th grade education could force a school to offer a different 11th grade class. And if there's one thing Conservatives as a whole do not seem short on, it's money.

In a nutshell, this paves the way to force schools to teach the creation story and abstinence only.
 
2012-01-06 09:03:28 AM

madcan34: It's called home schooling and people have been doing it for years with great academic success. It kind of dings the student in a social aspect however.


Every home schooled kid I've ever met thinks the world is 5,000 years old and Darwin was a pawn of the devil
 
2012-01-06 09:04:34 AM

madcan34: It's called home schooling and people have been doing it for years with great academic success. It kind of dings the student in a social aspect however.


Home schooled kids are not kept in a closet.
 
2012-01-06 09:06:19 AM

apoptotic: Alphax: That'll be a fun curriculum to write up.. any and all of it can be replaced at the request of each parent, for each student..

Hmm...how long until they use this as justification to cut teachers' salaries, saying that the parents, not teachers, are planning the curriculum?


There's the profit!
 
2012-01-06 09:06:22 AM

Portia: I've taught evolution as part of world history for the last five years without a single comment or complaint from students or parents, but teaching about Buddhist beliefs got a complaint, as did a lesson that looked at life expectancies in various countries.


Just goes to show that a lot of times the parent is an idiot that can actively hinder their child's education.
 
2012-01-06 09:06:47 AM
In 25 years, when they see how far college acceptance rates have fallen...I wonder if they'll get mad at the government for not helping their kids get to a university.
 
2012-01-06 09:07:21 AM

Lsherm: Well, as long as we're making stuff up (the liberal way), I'll counter with state standardized tests, which the child will probably still have to take. I don't actually have any idea, but since you don't, either, I think it's a fair argument


If the standardized tests are still being provided, that at least provides a baseline for evaluation, but what is the penalty for sub-performance? In public schools, this is usually used, in aggregate, as a measure of the district's performance or as a baseline for entrance into college, neither of which seem terribly applicable here.

Sure, I am not completely aware of all of the ramifications of this particular law; My point above is to show that the concern raised by the article is not based on a lie, but based on a reasonable understanding of the information presented. It is entirely possible that more information would make the bill as presented less (or more) ludicrious.
 
2012-01-06 09:07:38 AM

BurnShrike: HMS_Blinkin: The outcome is going to be higher teen pregnancy rates and more people believing in creationism, since sex ed and science are pretty obviously what the lawmakers had in mind. I mean, what else in the curriculum is "objectionable" to Republicans?

/aside from "facts"

Also, the US economy (what's left of it) will drop because there aren't enough people to fill the high-tech jobs anymore.

If you think about it, it's rather nice of the US to step out of the way to allow more up-and-coming nations to take over the science and tech leadership for a while.


Just because some fraction of retards wants to live in the 1600s doesn't necessarily ruin the whole country. Our universities and especially graduate programs are still massively world-beating, and no one is really approaching us in that regard. To me, it looks like the nation's extremes are drifting farther and farther apart. Our best and brightest are better than ever, but we also have some retards who are literally trying to become stupider at the same time. With regard to our global competitiveness, it's true that the dumbest American is probably MUCH dumber that the dumbest Chinese/Japanese/Western European person. But at the same time, the smartest and most industrious American is still probably better than his/her global counterparts, and the average is probably similar. We just have a VERY wide bell curve in terms of intelligence distribution.

The real problem is that those of us who are still capable of breathing on our own have to support and (with this law) enable those who choose a life of ignorance.
 
2012-01-06 09:08:13 AM
Parents should not be able to choose how to educte their children unless they are wealthy and vote Democrat.
 
2012-01-06 09:08:13 AM

badhatharry:
Home schooled kids are not kept in a closet.


It's good that they can be open with their sexual preference.
 
2012-01-06 09:10:36 AM

CPennypacker: Every home schooled kid I've ever met thinks the world is 5,000 years old and Darwin was a pawn of the devil


Alternately, they're very well educated, but are able to take no social cues and can't seem to make any friends. Because mom and dad tell them how special they are and how smart they are and didn't you know how smart they are? Let them tell you how smart they are because they're going to do it no matter how much you'd rather not hear it and they'll do it six inches from your face. But of course, normal students can't understand them because those students were publicly educated or religiously indoctrinated *sigh*.

Then there was this one kid I had the misfortune of interacting with who was enrolled in an online correspondence cirriculum because his dad didn't feel like waking him up during the day. No seriously, that was the only reason behind it. The kid would sleep until about 3 or 4 in the afternoon, screw around on the internet, and finally get around to classwork (maybe) at 2 or 3 am. He NEVER went outside except for Doctor's appointments. He also wet his bed uncontrollably (at 14) and didn't understand why he couldn't meet kids his age.
 
2012-01-06 09:11:51 AM

gadian: Then there was this one kid I had the misfortune of interacting with who was enrolled in an online correspondence cirriculum because his dad didn't feel like waking him up during the day. No seriously, that was the only reason behind it. The kid would sleep until about 3 or 4 in the afternoon, screw around on the internet, and finally get around to classwork (maybe) at 2 or 3 am. He NEVER went outside except for Doctor's appointments. He also wet his bed uncontrollably (at 14) and didn't understand why he couldn't meet kids his age.


What's his Fark handle?
 
2012-01-06 09:12:55 AM

8DragonFark: Skleenar: bugontherug: I'm about as liberal as they come, and I disagree with the bill in question. But it does not "allow[] parents the choice to not educate their children."

Step 1: Object, in writing, to all of the coursework.
Step 2: Propose another line of coursework
Step 3: Don't provide the coursework
Step 4: Don't be evaluated by the evaluation process that doesn't exist, and don't be penalized by the penalties that don't exist.

Step 5: Profit?


If you mean profit by snowplowing and mowing lawns sure.
 
2012-01-06 09:13:24 AM
What a family that didn't want to have unionized public school teachers educate their kids and wanted to send them to a school that allows prayer looks like:

cdn.babble.com
 
2012-01-06 09:14:42 AM
Not all uneducated people vote Republican, but most do. Enough do. Enough to make this law worthwhile.
 
2012-01-06 09:16:25 AM

lennavan: Instead we should be asking if individual parents with no training in child education whatsoever should be the ones compelling schools to teach or not teach what they wish.


I'm not sure that this law gives parents the ability to compel a certain curriculum--Even if a large group of parents got together and collectively boycotted a particular subject area, the school is still free to teach it, the parents would then have to provide their alternate (or not, because there does not seem to be enforcement).

Sure, I can see how this could be a strong influence into what the disctrict curricula becomes, but it isn't really a compulsion.

However, I am not sure I am terribly comfortable with the a la carte approach to education that this sets up. It's a little too much like many people's approach to religion.
 
2012-01-06 09:17:08 AM

beta_plus: What a family that didn't want to have unionized public school teachers educate their kids and wanted to send them to a school that allows prayer looks like


Unions are teaching our kids about Evolution! BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND!!!
 
2012-01-06 09:18:12 AM

beta_plus: What a family that didn't want to have unionized public school teachers educate their kids and wanted to send them to a school that allows prayer looks like:


Thank you for your addition to the thread. Now we have a post that we can point to if someone needs an example of someone completely missing the point.
 
2012-01-06 09:19:14 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Not all uneducated people vote Republican, but most do. Enough do. Enough to make this law worthwhile.


And if this bill passes, in a generation they'll increase their voter base.
 
2012-01-06 09:20:37 AM

BurnShrike: What's his Fark handle?


You know, I had this thought whenever I spoke with him, but I never asked.
 
2012-01-06 09:20:51 AM
Great, now you don't even need to B.S. to major in gameboy, you just need your parent's signature.

/Or your FORGED parents signature on a typed letter.
 
2012-01-06 09:21:14 AM
I am going to guess and I wish the law had a tracking set to see what the cumulative objection sets are but I will go out on a limb that most objections will be on sex-ed and evolution.

I just cannot see a parent with the knowledge and ability to go through the paperwork to opt their kid out of all school activities so not be tested. If you are going to go that route then you are going to homeschool instead which is tested.
 
2012-01-06 09:21:17 AM

madcan34: It's called home schooling and people have been doing it for years with great academic success. It kind of dings the student in a social aspect however.


The home schooled kids I know also get some social interaction via group classwork/labs etc.

They are also all pretty smart.
 
2012-01-06 09:26:09 AM
Hey, you wanted health care. Gotta be a trade off.
 
2012-01-06 09:26:33 AM

badhatharry: madcan34: It's called home schooling and people have been doing it for years with great academic success. It kind of dings the student in a social aspect however.

Home schooled kids are not kept in a closet.


Never meet one who was socially functional until after the years of high school.
 
2012-01-06 09:27:26 AM
"Dear Mr. Kotter,
Epstein doesn't have to go to school anymore.
Signed, Epstein's Mom"
 
2012-01-06 09:34:03 AM
Home schooling varies from state to state. Sometimes greatly. MI doesn't have any control on homeschooling. You don't have to inform them and it is up to them to prove that you are neglecting your kid. We now homeschool. 1)Flint schools are barely better than Detroit's 2)Acamedy schools do a little better, but won't stop a bully 3)Autistic son not getting the help he needed, schools still understand the "off days" of an autistic child. A Flint school handcuffed a 5 year old autistic kid for having a "off day". MI does have online curriculum programs that use the federal funds that would be paying for my kids anyway. Which I am sure is cheaper for them. My kids do get out often to play with other kids. A skating rink did have a special time and price for homeschoolers. I found out that a lot islamic parents also homeschool.
 
2012-01-06 09:37:04 AM
The reason the headline is not too trolling is because the curriculum set up by the school system is one designed by people with relative expertise. Not just in education, but in math, history, literature, and so on. Most parents are not teachers, and are not experts in any topic anyway. And, let's face it, when we have about half of the US population who denies evolution, and about 40% who outright deny the reality of global warming (with another 15% or so who just deny that humans influence climate), about a third of the population who thinks the US government faked the moon landing, and about a quarter of the population who thinks vaccines cause autism, there's a pretty good shot a lot of parents might just exempt their children from learning about any of that "objectionable" material that could be taught. We can't even turn to the notion in the bill that the school has to agree with the parents on the "alternative education" material because most schools will cower and cave if a parent is obnoxious enough.

I really object to the last bit, about the parent's name not being public information, too. If anything, the parents' names should be made public on billboards: "The following parents in your area object to their children learning that the Nazis tried to kill the Jews. We thought you might like to know." "These parents don't think their children should know anything about biology. Let's hope none of them want to be doctors." "This is a list of names of parents who have opted to have their children not learn about the moon landing, and instead learn how the US government lied about the whole thing and keeps aliens in Area 51. Sleep tight knowing some of those children could grow up to be future politicians."

What better way to invigorate the community to get more involved with education than by scaring the ever loving piss out of them about how absolutely retarded their neighbors are about destroying the educational process?
 
2012-01-06 09:38:45 AM
Also, only kids in the K-12 online program are asked to take standardize testing. Genesee county does have a high school level sports teams for homeschoolers. They are the Wildcats.
 
2012-01-06 09:39:04 AM
Wait a sec. So we can't use slippery slope fallacies on the mandate, but liberals can in regards to this bill? I'm pretty sure there would be some required grading system for alternate studies. Plus they would still have to have the state agree on the alternate course work. Are liberals truly scared of choice?
 
2012-01-06 09:41:09 AM
Gee, I hadn't heard this one over the commotion caused by the last two or three days of Legislation out of the NH Statehouse, such as declaring the death of a fetus as either Murder or at least Manslaughter....AND the throwing out the Ban on Weapons on College Campuses, or the Ban on Unloaded Firearms in parking lots at Public Schools. The Governor was so incensed by the repeal on the later that as he described the effects on the "General Welfare", he had a State Trooper demonstrate how long it took to chamber a round, which was like a 1/10 of a second.
 
2012-01-06 09:41:44 AM
Seriously, the rest of New England should close their borders with NH.
 
2012-01-06 09:41:58 AM
Oh, you are just discovering now that NH is farking weird? The good folks of Massachusetts have known this for a LONG time.
 
2012-01-06 09:42:41 AM
quick, lest the serfs begin to read!
 
2012-01-06 09:43:14 AM
You've all got it wrong. This isn't a bill addressing homeschooling. New Hampshire already has laws that specifically address and legalize homeschooling (and whether that's good or not is a completely other matter).

No, it's much more likely that this is a evolution/sex ed/american government/american history law, allowing parents to exempt their children from "objectionable" material in classrooms. (Which personally sounds absurd to me, but hey, I don't live in NH.)

The article is ridiculous.
 
2012-01-06 09:45:53 AM

Earpj: I...Why would one do this?? I mean, yeah...I live in Texas, so I know of stupid curriculum...but, I just supplement what my kids are learning.

I see, potentially, a lot of kids who won't be getting into college...maybe...

Should be interesting to see the outcome of this....


Maybe we'll finally get back towards the center? The market won't be saturated with degrees, the cost of an education will lower, and manufacturing/trade jobs will experience a renaissance.
 
2012-01-06 09:45:58 AM

beta_plus: Parents should not be able to choose how to educte their children unless they are wealthy and vote Democrat.


Home schooled, evidently.
 
2012-01-06 09:47:17 AM

Close2TheEdge: Oh, you are just discovering now that NH is farking weird? The good folks of Massachusetts have known this for a LONG time.


Their motto is, "Live free or die!". That really freaks out the sheeple of Massachusetts.
 
2012-01-06 09:49:39 AM

Sarah Palin's Conscience: Earpj: I...Why would one do this?? I mean, yeah...I live in Texas, so I know of stupid curriculum...but, I just supplement what my kids are learning.

I see, potentially, a lot of kids who won't be getting into college...maybe...

Should be interesting to see the outcome of this....

Maybe we'll finally get back towards the center? The market won't be saturated with degrees, the cost of an education will lower, and manufacturing/trade jobs will experience a renaissance.


You believe that manufacturing jobs have declined because American children recieve too much education?
 
2012-01-06 09:53:06 AM
i am opting out of computer lab because the interwebs makes baby jebus cry.
 
2012-01-06 09:53:14 AM

CujoQuarrel: madcan34: It's called home schooling and people have been doing it for years with great academic success. It kind of dings the student in a social aspect however.

The home schooled kids I know also get some social interaction via group classwork/labs etc.

They are also all pretty smart.


I know smart people with no formal education, what your point?
 
2012-01-06 09:53:22 AM

MyRandomName: Wait a sec. So we can't use slippery slope fallacies on the mandate, but liberals can in regards to this bill? I'm pretty sure there would be some required grading system for alternate studies. Plus they would still have to have the state agree on the alternate course work. Are liberals truly scared of choice?


"My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge" put into practice.

Also, there is no enforcement or oversight mechanism in place for these "alternate studies". You can be sure all you want, but it's not there.
 
2012-01-06 09:54:10 AM

wxgeek: No, it's much more likely that this is a evolution/sex ed/american government/american history law, allowing parents to exempt their children from "objectionable" material in classrooms. (Which personally sounds absurd to me, but hey, I don't live in NH.)

The article is ridiculous.



I think the point of the article is that while the intent of the law is to allow parents to exempt their child from specific subject matter, the specifics introduce a loophole wherein a motivated parent could exempt their child from the entirety of education. Thus the claim that compulsory education is dead. Which is true, if only in a technical sense. What remains to be seen is how this actually plays out. Will a non-insignificant number of families opt to do this?
 
2012-01-06 09:56:21 AM

badhatharry: Home schooled children are much smarter than the factory produced ones. It's not even a close race.


Except maybe in the areas of the biological sciences...
 
2012-01-06 09:56:41 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: You believe that manufacturing jobs have declined because American children recieve too much education?


Actually...yes. College degrees used to be considered a luxury, so many people went for manufacturing/other technical routes since they couldn't afford or aspire to achieve a college degree. Then the country underwent significant social change to make a college degree not a luxury but nearly a requirement and expectation. As a result, youth have been pushing for college degrees over these technical fields, and there simply isn't enough practical college level plus work to sustain the huge amount of people trying to get degrees. 50 years ago morons like Paul Christoforo would have been working in a machine shop or fishing boat out of Boston rather than a PR firm.
 
2012-01-06 09:57:46 AM
The Magna Carta sounds like just what the GOP is looking for.

"(6) Heirs may be given in marriage, but not to someone of lower social standing."
 
2012-01-06 09:57:52 AM

badhatharry: Their motto is, "Live free or die!". That really freaks out the sheeple of Massachusetts.


It freaks us out even more that like half of their state commutes from their rugged individual paradise to our liberal hellhole for work.
 
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