The recent slate of legislation passed in this state is appalling. Schools are woefully underfunded due to a 2% property tax cap, of that money they now compete with any wack job that wants to set up a private charter school, and employee unions have already been busted.

ArkAngel:

How so? It's an agreement between two private entities that will enforce above-market prices, which is exactly what union wages are.


Collective bargaining isn't anti-competitive. It really has nothing to do with "market price" whatever that means.

Oh, this should be tons of fun.

Unions are like bloated, sick dinosaurs, staggering around looking for a place to lie down and die. It's just a matter of time.

Can someone explain why "right to work" is so horrible? If being in a union is an advantage to the worker, wouldn't almost everyone want to pay union dues and be in the union? And if someone chooses not to pay union dues, they're not really getting union benefits, so what's the union's complaint?

It's amazing to me that the GOP is so filled with closeted gay Republicans and Jesus-fearing inbreds, that they no longer understand that wedge issues like guns, gays, and god only work if you appear to be protecting the rights of the working man to have a job.

Cat Food Sandwiches: Unions are like bloated, sick dinosaurs, staggering around looking for a place to lie down and die. It's just a matter of time.

They just need a really strong Führer to make it happen, right?

Cat Food Sandwiches: Unions Corporations are like bloated, sick dinosaurs, staggering around looking for a place to lie down and die. It's just a matter of time.

Unlike yours, has the advantage of being true.

elchip: Can someone explain why "right to work" is so horrible? If being in a union is an advantage to the worker, wouldn't almost everyone want to pay union dues and be in the union? And if someone chooses not to pay union dues, they're not really getting union benefits, so what's the union's complaint?

Except that someone not paying union dues but working in a shop with a collective bargaining contract in place does get a large amount of the benefit of said contract. Your whole premise is wrong.

After a while, a race of supermen will appear, and rule the world.

ArkAngel: union colluding with the Department of Labor

warrrgarble.

elchip: Can someone explain why "right to work" is so horrible? If being in a union is an advantage to the worker, wouldn't almost everyone want to pay union dues and be in the union? And if someone chooses not to pay union dues, they're not really getting union benefits, so what's the union's complaint?

I have no issue with having a good robust conversation over the benefits and disadvantages of unions. But this has nothing to do with it. Republicans are pushing an extreme political agenda with no real debate and based on non-existent proof that their policies will even remotely work.

/lives in a right to work state

I hope the IWW makes a huge comeback. Now THAT is a union.

what_now: Good job, GOP.

Well, they are idiots. What else would you expect?

Good. Workers need to be paid less and have fewer benefits, because then they'll be more willing to work harder, faster, longer and we'll make more money!

/Corporations' cunning plan to buy the legislative process, not thought through.

elchip: And if someone chooses not to pay union dues, they're not really getting union benefits,

Not so.

Here at the Library of Congress, all employees are represented by the Union, and can avail themselves of the union's grievance services should they find themselves in a workplace dispute (all services, actually, that's simply an example), regardless of whether they pay dues or not. This is the case for all ASCFME shops.

And public employee unions are what we're talking about, are they not?

I freeloaded for years before I simply became too ashamed of not carrying my share of the load, and have been a proud dues-paying member for over ten years.

optimistic_cynic: ArkAngel: It's an agreement between two private entities that will enforce above-market prices, which is exactly what union wages are.

Perhaps non-union wages are actually below-market prices and union wages should be the norm.

//"I don't like being a slave, you should be one too!"

Middle-class anti-union people have a sled-dog philosophy...they can only see the asshole right in front of them, so fark that asshole. Nevermind that there is someone at the front who doesn't have to tromp through shiat and gets treated the best.

what horrors is the GOP up to now?

checks article:

"Under the proposed aw, employees at unionized private workplaces would not be required to pay union dues."

oh, they are history's greatest monsters. omg, of course people should be forced to pay money to the unions. how dare employees be allowed to keep more of their money for food and rent.

elchip: If being in a union is an advantage to the worker, wouldn't almost everyone want to pay union dues and be in the union?

No, because you can get the benefits of the union without joining as a 'free rider.' Unionized mines are safer than non-union mines, for example -- as you can't force workers to cut corners under duress. Well, that is a work environment that benefits everyone, not just members. And if you want to protect that work environment, you create an agreement with the employer to only hire people who join the union.

Corporations depend on customers to buy stuff.
Workers are customers.
If workers make less money, less stuff will be bought.
Stuff-making corporations fail.
The capitalist scheme collapses.

Simple enough.

/The Nazis hated unions, too (new window).

tenpoundsofcheese: what horrors is the GOP up to now?

checks article:

"Under the proposed aw, employees at unionized private workplaces would not be required to pay union dues."

oh, they are history's greatest monsters. omg, of course people should be forced to pay money to the unions. how dare employees be allowed to keep more of their money for food and rent.

Well less union dues collected is less money donated to the DNC by the union.

This is gonna affect the DNC's gravy train/taxpayer money laundering system.....and you can't have that.

NuttierThanEver: So a contract signed between two private entities (union and the company) that stipulates that the company has agreed to hire only members of the union is illegal because Small Government?

sounds discriminatory to me.
if you are qualified for the job, why do you have to be a member of some club to get the job?

meat0918: RminusQ: DarnoKonrad: The recent slate of legislation passed in this state is appalling. Schools are woefully underfunded due to a 2% property tax cap, of that money they now compete with any wack job that wants to set up a private charter school, and employee unions have already been busted.

It's almost like they want public schools to fail.

Exactly.

Then they can justify using tax payer dollars for school vouchers to private schools, the way God intended.

Nononono, the vouchers are the means to the end, part of the process of Starve the Beast, not the end in itself. They're intended to divert public education funds to the private schools, specifically to Starve the Public School Beast into extinction.

Once the public schools are gone, then the vouchers will have served their purpose. No more need for them. They'll be allowed to expire. Then the children of the non-wealthy will have no education (with the possible exception of apprenticeships), and that is the way God intended, the way it was in almost every society including Western Civilization and even the USA up until that evil FDR and his New Deal creating the massive Middle Class for the first time in human history.

A tiny, wealthy elite ruling over a vast peasantry in abject poverty, ignorance (needed to keep them accepting this), and serfdom is the way God intended, don'cha know. A large, successful middle class is a historical abberation, one that the modern Koch-sucking corporatist GOP is determined to abolish once and for all, never to rise again.

what_now: Dear GOP,

We needed a national conversation on unions. Some of them probably needed some regulating, some were probably not working quite well. However, you went full retard. You could have said "maybe we should talk about merit pay for teachers", not "teachers are the problem with America, and they don't deserve to have health care or refrigerators".

What you've done is created a backlash. We can't discuss unions now, because any attempt will be met with cries of "SCOTT WALKERRRRRRR!!!".

Good job, GOP.

I can just imagine it now....

"At the time of the tellin', before the apoxoclipse, we had the learnin from elders who knew the secrets"

"Waaaalker. Waaaalker"

HotIgneous Intruder: Corporations depend on customers to buy stuff.
Workers are customers.
If workers make less money, less stuff will be bought.
Stuff-making corporations fail.
The capitalist scheme collapses.

Simple enough.

/The Nazis hated unions, too (new window).

/The Nazis also liked to heavily tax high income people.

Weekends off and 40-hour weeks suck.

tenpoundsofcheese: /The Nazis also liked to heavily tax high income people.

/And they had an awesome military, too.

elchip: Can someone explain why "right to work" is so horrible? If being in a union is an advantage to the worker, wouldn't almost everyone want to pay union dues and be in the union? And if someone chooses not to pay union dues, they're not really getting union benefits, so what's the union's complaint?

In Right to Work states if you're in a union shop but not a part of the union you still get every benefit of the contract and that union has to represent you to their best abilities in any dispute (such as a grievance). It is illegal for them to not do so and they open themselves up to lawsuits under 'Duty of Fair Representation' if they do not help you.

In other words: They get all of the benefits and don't have to pay anything.