You do know that Kamikaze means Divine Wind, and not always Japanese pilots of airplanes (sometimes full of explosives) who were supposed to ram American warships in WWII, right?

And it's not a legend.

Jim DiGriz: You do know that Kamikaze means Divine Wind, and not always Japanese pilots of airplanes (sometimes full of explosives) who were supposed to ram American warships in WWII, right?

THIS

whither_apophis: And it's not a legend.

THAT

The name Divine Wind comes from the fact (not legend) that a Mongol invasion was ruined in the worst of ways by a typhoon (taifun) which actually gave birth to the name kamikaze (divine wind) as it was considered god sent to destroy the Mongol invasion force and save Japan. This is not legend and is not disputed by anyone anywhere.

Was it kamikaze when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor? Was it kamikaze when the Cubans sank the Lusitania?

Was it kamikaze that sunk the Spanish Armada of 1588?

/okay, maybe it was...

It's interesting to think what would have happened if it hadn't been for that like storm.

The mongols almost certainly would have wiped out the Japanese defenders and conquered the island(s).

This would have forced the Japanese to open up to trade and outside ideas preventing them from forming the staunchly isolationist society that had to be opened up at gunpoint.

Maybe that would have made them easier to subjugate like the Chinese and we'd be dealing with a resentful poverty stricken people today.

Or maybe it would have spurred their industrialization and switch to a trade based economy even sooner.

Who knows. Just fun to speculate on.

watson.t.hamster: It's interesting to think what would have happened if it hadn't been for that like storm.

The mongols almost certainly would have wiped out the Japanese defenders and conquered the island(s).

This would have forced the Japanese to open up to trade and outside ideas preventing them from forming the staunchly isolationist society that had to be opened up at gunpoint.

Maybe that would have made them easier to subjugate like the Chinese and we'd be dealing with a resentful poverty stricken people today.

Or maybe it would have spurred their industrialization and switch to a trade based economy even sooner.

Who knows. Just fun to speculate on.

I don't know if it would have been as easy for the Mongols to prevail as you think. Throughout history, the Japanese have shown they are an entire different story than the Chinese and Koreans when it comes to military organization, unity and outright violence.

The initial Mongol scouting force was grossly outnumbered at the Battle of Bun'ei but still sent the Japanese retreating to inland defenses. I think the Mongols would have taken Japan.

Moopy Mac: watson.t.hamster: It's interesting to think what would have happened if it hadn't been for that like storm.

The mongols almost certainly would have wiped out the Japanese defenders and conquered the island(s).

This would have forced the Japanese to open up to trade and outside ideas preventing them from forming the staunchly isolationist society that had to be opened up at gunpoint.

Maybe that would have made them easier to subjugate like the Chinese and we'd be dealing with a resentful poverty stricken people today.

Or maybe it would have spurred their industrialization and switch to a trade based economy even sooner.

Who knows. Just fun to speculate on.

I don't know if it would have been as easy for the Mongols to prevail as you think. Throughout history, the Japanese have shown they are an entire different story than the Chinese and Koreans when it comes to military organization, unity and outright violence.

From the things I've read,IIRC, the Japanese form of war was more down to small group/individual action. I'm sure they could coordinate and fight in units...maybe, but there were many heads in Japan, with many men loyal first and foremost to them. Someone will prove this wrong, and I welcome it, but until 1939 and a guy named Guderian, no one waged war as efficiently and organized and strategically as the Mongols.I may be wrong, but if the Mongols had landed the whole of their invasion force, they would have won. Magorn: rudemix: Jim DiGriz: You do know that Kamikaze means Divine Wind, and not always Japanese pilots of airplanes (sometimes full of explosives) who were supposed to ram American warships in WWII, right?

THIS

whither_apophis: And it's not a legend.

THAT

The name Divine Wind comes from the fact (not legend) that a Mongol invasion was ruined in the worst of ways by a typhoon (taifun) which actually gave birth to the name kamikaze (divine wind) as it was considered god sent to destroy the Mongol invasion force and save Japan. This is not legend and is not disputed by anyone anywhere.

The important thing to note here is that it didn't happen once, but TWICE just a few years apart, and each time the Great Khan's flotilla was of a size that would not be seen again on earth until D-day.

Japan would have stood zero chance against an invasion force of mongols that size. But each time, right int he nick of time, a typhoon blew up and shattered the enemy's fleet. Hard not to believe you are the favored of the gods when that happens twice in one lifetime

Agreed. And as I mentioned just above about Guderian, it took another event in WWII to equal what the Mongols did about 700 years earlier.

Even more interesting to speculate than Japan is, if Genghis had not died causing all active armies/soldiers/troops to return home, how many more weeks would it have taken Subotai to put all of Europe under the Mongol thumb?

The Mongols also "cheated" by stabbing the samurai's horses and fighting in groups of 4 or so while the Japanese expected to fight man vs man. The European knights didn't fair so well in Poland either.

Magorn: Japan would have stood zero chance against an invasion force of mongols that size. But each time, right int he nick of time, a typhoon blew up and shattered the enemy's fleet. Hard not to believe you are the favored of the gods when that happens twice in one lifetime

Hard to believe the Mongols couldn't work out when typhoon season was and attack at a different time of year.

mamoru: if_i_really_have_to: Hard to believe the Mongols couldn't work out when typhoon season was and attack at a different time of year.

Probably not a lot of experience with typhoons in Mongolia, I expect. :-/

I was there for two weeks and didn't see one farking typhoon. So disappointing.