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(Yahoo) Dumbass Ron Paul's version of "Joe the Plumber" is Jessie the Soldier, whose habit of campaigning for Paul while in full uniform may soon earn him a new title: "Jessie the court-martialed"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 180
More: Dumbass, Ron Paul, Joe the Plumber, Support our troops, Dana Bash, due processes, United States Air Force, Kurdish, black community  
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2124 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jan 2012 at 9:51 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



180 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-01-05 08:48:45 AM
He should lose rank over this. There is NO WAY in hell that he would not know that what he did was against military regulations. Nada. Hey may be a weekend warrior, but he is a friggin NCO.
 
2012-01-05 09:55:13 AM
Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.
 
2012-01-05 09:55:35 AM
Isn't Ron Paul the one whose plan for getting us out of Iraq and Afghanistan consisted entirely of taking away soldiers' air-conditioning?
 
2012-01-05 09:56:02 AM
Well since he's not John Kerry he will probably actually get in trouble for this.
 
2012-01-05 09:56:19 AM
Yeah, there's a really good reason that rule about politics in uniform exists so they should throw the book at him. Hard. And anybody else that does it.
 
2012-01-05 09:56:38 AM
FTFA:

He's six feet tall, a Scorpio, has a tattoo of the Twin Towers on his neck

Does it have a crying eagle, too?

/Nevar Forget
 
2012-01-05 09:57:00 AM
What a shiathead.
 
2012-01-05 09:57:24 AM
The false dichotomy brigade got up early today.
 
2012-01-05 09:57:45 AM
Article 92 suggests he could be dishonorably discharged and thrown in the slammer for two years for doing what he did, especially considering he violated multiple directives with intent to do so, specifically:

4.1.1.9. [A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:] Attend partisan and nonpartisan political fundraising activities, meetings, rallies, debates, conventions, or activities as a spectator when not in uniform and when no inference or appearance of official sponsorship, approval, or endorsement can reasonably be drawn.

4.1.2.5. [A member of the Armed Forces on active duty shall not:] Speak before a partisan political gathering, including any gathering that promotes a partisan political party, candidate, or cause.
 
2012-01-05 09:58:51 AM
Dumb comparison.

Joe the Plumber wasn't "Joe" and he wasn't a "plumber".

Also he made no valid arguments.
 
2012-01-05 09:59:31 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.


There's a world of farking difference between speaking your mind about a particular policy of the country while in the uniform (which can still get you in trouble, rightly so - see Gen. McCrystal, Stanley), and actively campaigning for a specific candidate while in uniform. There's a reason the military is supposed to appear impartial to political candidates and parties.
 
2012-01-05 09:59:35 AM
kronicfeld: The false dichotomy brigade got up early today.

No shiat.
 
2012-01-05 10:00:26 AM
You know who else went to political rallies in military uniform?
 
2012-01-05 10:01:15 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.


That guy just showed up at some protest where this guy is going on stage and whatnot. Ron Paul should actually know better even if this guy somehow does not.
 
2012-01-05 10:01:24 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.


Thats actually sort of the point. Thats why its called a "Uniform". Your boss is the Commander and Chief of the United States, and you have pledged to uphold to the constitution... When you make statements like this in a uniform the effect... the desired effect by the string pulling politician... is to use you as a banner for the official position of the US Army, which is completely inappropriate.

Why cant he just wear an army T-Shirt and say "Hi im in the Army and I support Ron Paul"?
 
2012-01-05 10:01:37 AM
Don't blame me, I campaign for Xenu
 
2012-01-05 10:01:54 AM
I'm a civilian employee of the Federal government and even I know the rules about campaigning in an official capacity. Screw this guy. He joined the military to follow the rules, not have opinions about things.
 
2012-01-05 10:02:40 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?

It's not allowed, but DOD Directive 1352.1 prevents calling retired personnel back to active duty for the sole purpose of a court martial. Though one could easily point out that simply wearing some military apparel is not being 'in uniform'.
 
2012-01-05 10:03:29 AM
I figured it would be "I'm Not Telling You My Name the Sovereign Citizen"
 
2012-01-05 10:03:51 AM
randomjsa: Well since he's not John Kerry he will probably actually get in trouble for this.

Oh look, the coward brigade is out in force already.
 
2012-01-05 10:04:01 AM
Gen. Patton Harvey Oswalt: s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.

There's a world of farking difference between speaking your mind about a particular policy of the country while in the uniform (which can still get you in trouble, rightly so - see Gen. McCrystal, Stanley), and actively campaigning for a specific candidate while in uniform. There's a reason the military is supposed to appear impartial to political candidates and parties.


This.

WTF is wrong with the Army not cracking down on this bullshiat? WWE, for example, gives free tickets to those in Uniform, no matter where they are. That right there is a no-go. Using your uniform to receive benefits from third parties is a farking disgrace because of the "patriotism" card.
 
2012-01-05 10:05:19 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.


I was unaware that the military was utilizing some sort of uniform that cannot be removed. How do they clean them?
A person in the military is perfectly free to express any opinion or support any candidate they want - they just can't apply the imprimatur of the armed service to their own opinions by doing it publicly in uniform.
But then, you know this already.
 
2012-01-05 10:05:51 AM
But i thaught no one can be cort-marshalled because Obama is a keynsian userper?
 
2012-01-05 10:06:30 AM
Court-martial 'em and let God sort him out.
 
2012-01-05 10:06:43 AM
cman: WTF is wrong with the Army not cracking down on this bullshiat? WWE, for example, gives free tickets to those in Uniform, no matter where they are. That right there is a no-go. Using your uniform to receive benefits from third parties is a farking disgrace because of the "patriotism" card.

There's a difference between "using" and "being on the receiving end of someone's unsolicited charitable gift."
 
2012-01-05 10:06:53 AM
Arkanaut: But i thaught no one can be cort-marshalled because Obama is a keynsian userper?

0/10

Not even in the ballpark
 
2012-01-05 10:08:45 AM
kronicfeld: There's a difference between "using" and "being on the receiving end of someone's unsolicited charitable gift."

You're not supposed to accept any "gifts" of any kind because it might come across as an inappropriate transaction or you being indebted to someone.
 
2012-01-05 10:09:46 AM
cman: WWE, for example, gives free tickets to those in Uniform, no matter where they are. That right there is a no-go. Using your uniform to receive benefits from third parties is a farking disgrace because of the "patriotism" card.

Oh, I dunno. There's a lot of benefits members of the armed forces get from private entities. The soldiers aren't like "Give me a ticket because I'm in the army"; the WWE says "Free tickets for all members of the army!".
 
2012-01-05 10:09:52 AM
gadian: kronicfeld: There's a difference between "using" and "being on the receiving end of someone's unsolicited charitable gift."

You're not supposed to accept any "gifts" of any kind because it might come across as an inappropriate transaction or you being indebted to someone.


Like military discounts at a theater?
 
2012-01-05 10:10:13 AM
He re-enlisted in 2007 when a judge offered to end his probation early if he did so

I didn't know this stuff still went on.
 
2012-01-05 10:10:41 AM
Gen. Patton Harvey Oswalt: FTFA:

He's six feet tall, a Scorpio, has a tattoo of the Twin Towers on his neck

Does it have a crying eagle, too?

/Nevar Forget


That's nothing. I have rubble from the Twin Towers on my piano at home.

/Going to hell twice for that.
 
2012-01-05 10:10:45 AM
Nonsense. Everybody knows laws don't apply to Republicans, those are just for the little people.
 
2012-01-05 10:11:05 AM
Why the hell would you get a tattoo of the frigging WTC? Unless your dad helped build them all your doing is attention whoring and trying to make yourself a victim by proxy. That episode of Rescue Me that had the support group of people "affected" by 9/11 that weren't even close to it comes to mind.
 
2012-01-05 10:12:55 AM
sprawl15: Like military discounts at a theater?

Technically speaking. Of course, technically speaking, military officers aren't supposed do things like have second jobs without approval of an ethics committee, but we see how well that is enforced.
 
2012-01-05 10:13:02 AM
Gen. Patton Harvey Oswalt: There's a world of farking difference between speaking your mind about a particular policy of the country while in the uniform (which can still get you in trouble, rightly so - see Gen. McCrystal, Stanley), and actively campaigning for a specific candidate while in uniform. There's a reason the military is supposed to appear impartial to political candidates and parties.

I think that ship sailed with RON PAUL's utterly farking shameless "money bomb" ads for Veterans' Day.
 
2012-01-05 10:13:15 AM
gadian: You're not supposed to accept any "gifts" of any kind because it might come across as an inappropriate transaction or you being indebted to someone.

I think the difference is that there are gifts from private entities, like lobbyist gifts, that are targeted at specific people in return for something. A blanket "free ____ for all members of the military" doesn't carry any sort of expectation of quid pro quo.

The problem here is that Ron Paul, presidential candidate, is not a private entity.
 
2012-01-05 10:13:42 AM
The Gentleman Caller: Why the hell would you get a tattoo of the frigging WTC?

If I had walked a tightrope between them I totally would. Other than that, I can't think of a reason that doesn't smack of false patriotism.
 
2012-01-05 10:14:09 AM
The Gentleman Caller: Why the hell would you get a tattoo?

Fixed.
 
2012-01-05 10:19:44 AM
Yes, court-martial him so he can become a McVeigh, Version 2.0, disillusioned patriot.

/Because authoritarians never think their cunning plan through.
 
2012-01-05 10:19:57 AM
qorkfiend: gadian: Y

According to the ECFR:

a) General prohibitions. Except as provided in this subpart, an employee shall not, directly or indirectly, solicit or accept a gift:

(1) From a prohibited source; or

(2) Given because of the employee's official position.

(b) Relationship to illegal gratuities statute. Unless accepted in violation of paragraph (c)(1) of this section, a gift accepted under the standards set forth in this subpart shall not constitute an illegal gratuity otherwise prohibited by 18 U.S.C. 201(c)(1)(B).

(c) Limitations on use of exceptions. Notwithstanding any exception provided in this subpart, other than §2635.204(j), an employee shall not:

(1) Accept a gift in return for being influenced in the performance of an official act;

(2) Solicit or coerce the offering of a gift;

(3) Accept gifts from the same or different sources on a basis so frequent that a reasonable person would be led to believe the employee is using his public office for private gain;

So, technically speaking...
 
2012-01-05 10:22:57 AM
s2s2s2: Yeah, no one should be allowed to speak their mind in a military uniform, or use that to garner support for their cause, amirite?


/looking at you, various OWSers.


Not on active duty you can't. Now if you're discharged and not retired you can wear whatever the hell you want.
 
2012-01-05 10:24:08 AM
HotIgneous Intruder: Yes, court-martial him so he can become a McVeigh, Version 2.0, disillusioned patriot.

/Because authoritarians never think their cunning plan through.


He's a farking soldier. He signed a contract agreeing to abide by these rules.

/Also, McVeigh was a poor choice to make in this arguement. Do your research on him.
 
2012-01-05 10:24:25 AM
cman: He should lose rank over this. There is NO WAY in hell that he would not know that what he did was against military regulations. Nada. Hey may be a weekend warrior, but he is a friggin NCO.

I'm amazed at how tuned in military personell are to uniform issues, its a big deal for them. I take a commuter bus to work that also stops at the Pentagon so a fair number fo my fellow riders are soldiers or ex-soldiers. Just yesterda i saw a man in asuit and tie strike up a conversation with a guy (AF I think) wearing tactical camo BDUS . Suit and tie says to BDU's "where you headed today?" BDU's says "the Pentagon" Suit and tie, with real concern in his voice says "Bro, you know you are out of uniform right?" (I have no idea why, I see tons of similarly dressed people get off there all the time, but whatever it was it was immediately obvious to the other guy) BDU explained he'd just pCe'ed the other day and most of his luggage had yet to catach up with him, Suit and tie offered to hit his buddies at the Pentagon up for whatever uniform pieces BDU was missing, as most of them kept spares.


Apparently it's that big a deal to uniformed folks.
 
2012-01-05 10:26:16 AM
You guys sure showed me. Farkin phony soldiers, amirite?
 
2012-01-05 10:26:31 AM
Gen. Patton Harvey Oswalt: has a tattoo of the Twin Towers on his neck

If it includes Hulk Hogan, that's pretty cool.
 
2012-01-05 10:26:42 AM
gadian: So, technically speaking...

(b) Gift includes any gratuity, favor, discount, entertainment, hospitality, loan, forbearance, or other item having monetary value. It includes services as well as gifts of training, transportation, local travel, lodgings and meals, whether provided in-kind, by purchase of a ticket, payment in advance, or reimbursement after the expense has been incurred. It does not include:
(1) Modest items of food and refreshments, such as soft drinks, coffee and donuts, offered other than as part of a meal;

(2) Greeting cards and items with little intrinsic value, such as plaques, certificates, and trophies, which are intended solely for presentation;

(3) Loans from banks and other financial institutions on terms generally available to the public;

(4) Opportunities and benefits, including favorable rates and commercial discounts, available to the public or to a class consisting of all Government employees or all uniformed military personnel, whether or not restricted on the basis of geographic considerations;

(5) Rewards and prizes given to competitors in contests or events, including random drawings, open to the public unless the employee's entry into the contest or event is required as part of his official duties;

(6) Pension and other benefits resulting from continued participation in an employee welfare and benefits plan maintained by a former employer;

(7) Anything which is paid for by the Government or secured by the Government under Government contract;
 
2012-01-05 10:27:12 AM
gadian: I'm a civilian employee of the Federal government and even I know the rules about campaigning in an official capacity. Screw this guy. He joined the military to follow the rules, not have opinions about things.

Yeah, back when I was "Hatched" there was yearly training on the Act and a refresher anytime an election was coming up. There is no way NOT to know this rule if you are in civil or military service
 
2012-01-05 10:28:11 AM
Has he never been deployed or stationed overseas and subjucated to AFN? Seriously, they play commercials on it constantly saying that YOU CAN'T FARKING DO THIS CRAP.
 
2012-01-05 10:28:16 AM
gadian: So, technically speaking...

"LT, USN" isn't an official position. "Public Affairs Officer, USN Fifth Fleet" is an official position. Giving away military discounts in general is not appealing to any position, just the military in general. If Private Jones, fresh out of boot camp, gets the same benefit as our theoretical officer then it isn't directed at any position.
 
2012-01-05 10:29:37 AM
Magorn: cman: He should lose rank over this. There is NO WAY in hell that he would not know that what he did was against military regulations. Nada. Hey may be a weekend warrior, but he is a friggin NCO.

I'm amazed at how tuned in military personell are to uniform issues, its a big deal for them. I take a commuter bus to work that also stops at the Pentagon so a fair number fo my fellow riders are soldiers or ex-soldiers. Just yesterda i saw a man in asuit and tie strike up a conversation with a guy (AF I think) wearing tactical camo BDUS . Suit and tie says to BDU's "where you headed today?" BDU's says "the Pentagon" Suit and tie, with real concern in his voice says "Bro, you know you are out of uniform right?" (I have no idea why, I see tons of similarly dressed people get off there all the time, but whatever it was it was immediately obvious to the other guy) BDU explained he'd just pCe'ed the other day and most of his luggage had yet to catach up with him, Suit and tie offered to hit his buddies at the Pentagon up for whatever uniform pieces BDU was missing, as most of them kept spares.


Apparently it's that big a deal to uniformed folks.


Its about disciplin. Its the overall picture.

Most importantly it is about one thing: paying attention to detail. In a combat zone, you need to be 100% aware of everything around you. Uniform maintenance is a good way to practice. By ensuring that you do not have one thread sticking out you are teaching yourself to look at even the smallest farking thing. That rock could be on top of some sort of explosion. That open window could contain a sniper several feet away inside.
 
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