well, between gropuon and all the other spinoff competitors, itll be tough for long term viability with the current model.

that being said, still seems like its a good idea, just not the huge piloe of cash and billions in valuation it was thought to be.

like TFA article's analyst said... wait and see.

i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

The author missed a big word in the headline. Should have been "again".

It dropped down to $14.85 the week after the IPO hit. Went back up again into the low 20's and now dropping again.

The fact that a company with no real discernible assets can have a market cap of $14b is insane.

Father_Jack: i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

They're going to end up teaching that one in business classes along with New Coke and M&M's/ET. "When someone offers you billions for your easily copied business model, YOU SAY YES!"

Interesting...noticed two stores in town this weekend that had "Groupon offers no longer accepted" signs on their doors. And that's just the ones I noticed.

ihatedumbpeople: Interesting...noticed two stores in town this weekend that had "Groupon offers no longer accepted" signs on their doors. And that's just the ones I noticed.

I would be furious if I bought a Groupon in good faith for a business and they just decided to stop accepting them. Then again, Groupon has an excellent return policy and helpful customer service.

I'm more surprised by the 6 billion dollar valuation for Living Social. That seems way out of line to me. Makes me wonder if Living Social and their investors are hoping for an IPO soon before the market falls out from under them.

No assets, no dividends, a broken business model and absolutely no barriers for competitors to take market share? Where do I sign? Here, take my money. Take all my money.

jayhawk88: Father_Jack: i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

They're going to end up teaching that one in business classes along with New Coke and M&M's/ET. "When someone offers you billions for your easily copied business model, YOU SAY YES!"


I thought about this....it depends on what the owners/CEOs of the company already have saved away as well as their split of the stock shares...

Of Google's $6 billion offer...it wasn't like each owner/CEO was going to take away $2 billion clean and free..that $6 billion was going to get split between a dozen different ways.....as an example Zuckerberg only own 24% facebook.

Assuming these guys have some money saved away...why not swing for the fences...instead of becoming hundred millionaires...they could become billionaires...

/It's only a stupid play if they have nothing...i.e, it's a billion or bust...
//if it's a billion or $50 million....I say go for it...$50 million is still more than enough money to live on forever.

I bought $5 of Fark for $2.50.

BalugaJoe: I bought $5 of Fark for $2.50.

SELL! SELL! SELL!

Boxcutta: No assets, no dividends, a broken business model and absolutely no barriers for competitors to take market share? Where do I sign? Here, take my money. Take all my money.

Why is it a broken business model? I get the rest of your arguments against Groupon itself, but why do you think the idea is broken? It would seem to work great for high fixed cost businesses, ie theaters, bowling alleys, amusement parks. Or are you just against coupons in general?

Merchants realize they cannot buy customer loyalty.

They don't come back after the cheap deal.

I love that joke.

/10k employees? Seriously??

People who come in for a super deal are not potential customers; just cheap-skates. They won't be back. Every business owner has to learn this for themselves.

mrtoadswildride: jayhawk88: Father_Jack: i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

They're going to end up teaching that one in business classes along with New Coke and M&M's/ET. "When someone offers you billions for your easily copied business model, YOU SAY YES!"


I thought about this....it depends on what the owners/CEOs of the company already have saved away as well as their split of the stock shares...

Of Google's $6 billion offer...it wasn't like each owner/CEO was going to take away $2 billion clean and free..that $6 billion was going to get split between a dozen different ways.....as an example Zuckerberg only own 24% facebook.

Assuming these guys have some money saved away...why not swing for the fences...instead of becoming hundred millionaires...they could become billionaires...

/It's only a stupid play if they have nothing...i.e, it's a billion or bust...
//if it's a billion or $50 million....I say go for it...$50 million is still more than enough money to live on forever.

You would be right, except they had already been steadily cashing out investments from other sources, instead of investing it in growing or improving the company. Their books were a fantasy, and it was only a matter of time before they would be exposed. They might have been holding out for more cash, but there aren't a whole lot of companies with more cash than Google.

roc6783: Boxcutta: No assets, no dividends, a broken business model and absolutely no barriers for competitors to take market share? Where do I sign? Here, take my money. Take all my money.

Why is it a broken business model? I get the rest of your arguments against Groupon itself, but why do you think the idea is broken? It would seem to work great for high fixed cost businesses, ie theaters, bowling alleys, amusement parks. Or are you just against coupons in general?

It's broken for the reasons mentioned: No assets, no dividends, no barriers for competitors to take market share...and business that use groupon are getting killed...

You have a business model where business are getting killed (thus they won't repeat use groupon again) and customers who are only in it for the deals (thus there is no loyalty...they just want the cheapest deals) and you have competition from giants like google...who don't need 50% of the coupon to make money...they just need cover costs and get people's information to make their search engine better.

The result is a dwindling market and groupn having to work harder and harder to "fool" companies into doing a groupon deal.

natazha: People who come in for a super deal are not potential customers; just cheap-skates. They won't be back. Every business owner has to learn this for themselves.

To be fair, I do become a regular at this Japanese teriyaki restaurant through Google Offers deal, so sound business is there somewhere.

roc6783: Boxcutta: No assets, no dividends, a broken business model and absolutely no barriers for competitors to take market share? Where do I sign? Here, take my money. Take all my money.

Why is it a broken business model? I get the rest of your arguments against Groupon itself, but why do you think the idea is broken? It would seem to work great for high fixed cost businesses, ie theaters, bowling alleys, amusement parks. Or are you just against coupons in general?

Groupon's business model is "You want to offer a 50% off coupon? Great, the customer will buy it from us for 50% of your normal price, and when they redeem it with you then you get 25% of your normal price. We keep the rest." It worked because they hired 10,000 people to call every business and hammer them about how this is 'the next big thing'. The economy sucked, so companies took the risk.

With other sites started doing the same thing, and charging business less than 50% of the coupon price to advertise for them for a day, Groupon's model is shot. They expanded so fast so they could build mindshare, and were losing money even though they kept 50% of all the money that went through their system. Now they are losing that mindshare to Myhabit, livingsocial, google offers, and who knows what else.

Lastly, businesses that have used Groupon have not seen as many new regular customers as they would like to get, after losing 75% of their normal price. Groupon got users who want big deals, and don't go back afterward. Great for the consumer, but the consumer isn't really Groupon's customer.

Compared to Groupon, it would be easier and cheaper to bribe a local DJ and offer 60% off to anyone who mentioned your ad from a radio on Wednesday lunches.

My astonishment is ...... minimal.

Mkt Cap: 11.94B

I call BS.

This is why it annoys me when I hear farkers whine about how banks screw the little guy out of participation in IPOs. It's those same little guys wanting in on the IPO that contribute to the immediate post-IPO bump, lose their money, and make IPOs so valued by the big fish.

jayhawk88: Father_Jack: i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

They're going to end up teaching that one in business classes along with New Coke and M&M's/ET. "When someone offers you billions for your easily copied business model, YOU SAY YES!"

To be fair, Google offered them $6B, and they IPO'ed for ~$15B. So, in fact, the lesson should be, "if a giant offers you $6B, but you think you can get more out of the open market and have enough delusional investment banks swallowing your Kool-Aid and pushing for a piece of your offering, IPO just as soon as you can after that big, public cash offer, and GTFO."

And, don't forget, Google's offer was contingent on going through their books, which could have caused them to walk away completely, given the shenanigans that were found pre-IPO, then they could have been dead in the water.

But, the real decider was probably in the "what percentage and how quickly can I divest and bail" clauses for the founders (or, more likely, early VCs and Board).

/ still seems like a dumb idea, and way too open to abuse / fraud / fail

BizarreMan: The fact that a company with no real discernible assets can have a market cap of $14b is insane.

We haven't yet learned from previous financial debacles, and everyone's interested in the new (but not necessarily the improved.)

jayhawk88: Father_Jack: i still cant believe they turned down billions from google. that's some hubris right there.

They're going to end up teaching that one in business classes along with New Coke and M&M's/ET. "When someone offers you billions for your easily copied business model, YOU SAY YES!"

Worked for Dodgeball, which no one has heard of, since Google bought it and made Latitude, which no one has also heard of. The founder went on to make Foursquare.