Butthurt to the left of me.

Butthurt to the right of me.

Into the valley of OWS rode the butthurt.

muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

jso2897: muck4doo: jso2897: thamike: muck4doo: Yeah, I'm convinced an 8 year old came up with that.

I'm just going by what the article said. And yeah, that sh*t looks like a third grader (or group of third graders) wrote it.

/what's the word for a group of third graders? a pod? a murder?

Yeah, I don't but that either. It was 1958 when I turned 8 years old, and the civil rights movement was just beginning. The papers were full of awful pictures and stories about how black folks were getting treated - and it had a powerful effect on me. I became obsessed with the subject, and remained so until my teens, joining SNCC and demonstrating and so on - thought I was going to save the world.
And while my parents passively observed this with some bemusement, they certainly weren't "coaching" me, and neither was anyone else. The concept that a child cannot understand good and evil, and desire to change the world for the better. is profoundly fallacious.

Awesome! You write any songs about it when you were a whee child that you can share with us today?

He. No - but then, I couldn't write a decent song today. And I've tried - the results were execrable. I'm a good singer, and a decent guitar player - but I stick with covers - songwriting is not one of my talents.
To me, the attitude that kids are incapable of thinking and caring about "adult" issues is patronizing and false. You may disagree - but, hey - that's what makes horseracing.

I like you.

2wolves: muck4doo: 2wolves: muck4doo:

Using children as your messengers is kind of the deal. Try acting like adults and deliver the message yourselves instead of using kids as your pawns to do it. That's the problem. Of course I can see why you two want to use anything at your "disposal" to get your message across.

And I see you making assumptions that fit your preconceived world view.

Yes, we're all out to get you...

Oh, that's not so. Just speak up for yourself and quit putting 8 year olds up to do your singing and chanting for you. You're very capable of getting in a drum circle yourself.

No, that's the preconceived bit I was referring to, that kids are as unaware as you were and that I enjoy drum circles.

Wish to keep digging?

No. I already know what you want to believe. Now go buy a drum. :)

/3rd grade economics courses. Who knew?

Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

Blue. I'm always amazed you drum circle types have to keep asking each other that.

GORDON: When I was 8 in 1979 I was totally going around saying, "Jimmy Carter, Kiss My Gas" because I was completely into politics and had very well-formed opinions about world events.

Also Thundercats and Thundarr the Barbarian and that awesome Dungeons and Dragons cartoon.

But also politics. I cared for politics deeply. At 8 years old.

/actually not really because I was lucky enough to not have indoctrination as part of my daily activities.

I'm sure that's a truthful and accurat6e relating of your own, personal experience. But yours isn't necessarily everybody else's.
Using oneself as the evaluative reference point for the rest of humanity tends to lead one to draw narrow and fallacious conclusions. in my experience.
But, then, that's just my experience.

Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

His fanny is so red and sore he hasn't been able to sit down since sept 17.

Bob16: Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

His fanny is so red and sore he hasn't been able to sit down since sept 17.

Make it funny! Say 9/11

muck4doo: Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

Blue. I'm always amazed you drum circle types have to keep asking each other that.

Drum circle types? That's a good one seeing how I despise hippies and have never been in a drum circle or at a Grateful Dead concert.

Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Jake Havechek: muck4doo: Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

Wow. You're in deep, man. What color is the sky on your world?

Blue. I'm always amazed you drum circle types have to keep asking each other that.

Drum circle types? That's a good one seeing how I despise hippies and have never been in a drum circle or at a Grateful Dead concert.

Why not?

Why is it that conservatives support hillbillies that send their kids to school with racist hate messages on them, but this is beyond the pale to them?

It's all FIRST 'MENDMENTS! WE GOT FIRST 'MENDMENTS! until it's a message they don't like.

muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: j

In other words, you're another retard that believes an 8 year old wrote that song, and the class all rallied behind him. Yes, I will call you a retard and do ad hominem attacks, because what you spew is bullshiat. Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

I recognize that you are disadvantaged in this argument but as a former school teacher I can definitively say yes an 8 year old could have written that song. Just because you couldn't have written it doesn't mean a more intelligent child couldn't have. Further, i don't pretend to know who wrote it, i'm simply pointing out the fallacy in your limited argument.

Further your attempt to paint me as an OWS protestor is amusing. I merely pointed out where your logic may have gone off the tracks. I work on wall street. I have to walk through Zucotti park 2-3 times a day going to and from the subway, grabbing lunch etc. I have months of up close experience with it's most ardent supporters. While i'm not a member of OWS i have no problem with it and I think it does put some much needed attention on a system that is, in fact, broken.

I've done my charitable work for the day. You're on your own.

Enjoy the rest of your ignorant, fearful existence.

keylock71: Eh... Lyrics definitely read like they were written by kids.

'Course, I can see how the folks at FOX News and their viewers would think they're too advanced.

This is nothing but a tempest in teacup pushed by the usual partisan idiots.

They're more in to erudite, witty lyrics like "I'll put a boot up your ass".

iaazathot: SpaceyCat: It is believable that the kids came up with this song themselves. How many of those kids have been directly affected by the housing crash? How many kids have parents that can't find jobs? Yeah, it'd be nice to think that kids are completely isolated from what is happening around them, but that's just stupid. I don't know the demographics of the school that this song was written at, but 21% of the children in the US live in poverty1. 42% live in low-income families1. 1 in 50 children are homeless2.

So saying that children aren't aware of what's going on around them is ignorant. Yes, children are affected by the financial crisis and have to deal with it.

1 (new window)
2 (new window)

Just go to Orlando, FL and talk to the schools about having to send backpacks full of food home with kids, because so many of them are effectively homeless or in homes well below the poverty line.

Kids are being hit very hard by the economic situation in this country, but some people don't like to think about that, so those kids should just shush. Your suffering is inconvenient, children, just run outside and play!

To me, drawing the conclusion that kids have to be "manipulated" into caring and thinking about adult matters requires making sweeping generalisations that my own experience in, and knowledge of, life forbid me to make.
My own experience as a child, and with all the children I have known, indicates to me that children vary wildly in their attitudes and mentalities, and I can see no sound basis for categorically stating that children are incapable of thinking for themselves. That would be as fallacious as stating that ALL children are.

dittybopper: It is wrong to use young kids to make a political point, period. I don't care what side you are one, if you resort to using young children to advance your message, you have lost the intellectual and moral high ground.

What if it's an issue affecting children? Do you feel it was wrong for a child recipient of health care via SCHIP to make a statement when the GOP was trying to kill it?

So what. It happens every time some community theatre group does a production of Oliver! Plus ca change.

Tat'dGreaser: Jake Havechek: [CITATION NEEDED]

Oh go f*ck yourself. Someone posted it here on Fark, I'm not googling "guy sh*tting on flag at protest".

I know you are bullshiating as that pic was from another protest, but you're too lazy to even lie successfully.

Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: j

In other words, you're another retard that believes an 8 year old wrote that song, and the class all rallied behind him. Yes, I will call you a retard and do ad hominem attacks, because what you spew is bullshiat. Go bang your bongo drums yourself, and quit trying to make the children spread the wealth for you.

I recognize that you are disadvantaged in this argument but as a former school teacher I can definitively say yes an 8 year old could have written that song. Just because you couldn't have written it doesn't mean a more intelligent child couldn't have. Further, i don't pretend to know who wrote it, i'm simply pointing out the fallacy in your limited argument.

Further your attempt to paint me as an OWS protestor is amusing. I merely pointed out where your logic may have gone off the tracks. I work on wall street. I have to walk through Zucotti park 2-3 times a day going to and from the subway, grabbing lunch etc. I have months of up close experience with it's most ardent supporters. While i'm not a member of OWS i have no problem with it and I think it does put some much needed attention on a system that is, in fact, broken.

I've done my charitable work for the day. You're on your own.

Enjoy the rest of your ignorant, fearful existence.

Uh huh, sure thing former school teacher now working on wall street who walks through zucotti park 2 or 3 times a day everyday who is not a member but supports it guy.

dittybopper: muck4doo: 2wolves: WhyteRaven74: Instead of being upset about the kids, how about dealing with the issues? Being upset at the kids is just trying to shoot the messenger.

There you go again, being all logical and reasonable and stuff.

Using children as your messengers is kind of the deal. Try acting like adults and deliver the message yourselves instead of using kids as your pawns to do it. That's the problem. Of course I can see why you two want to use anything at your "disposal" to get your message across.

CSB:

Back when I was in first and second grade, lo those many years ago, I went to a catholic school. One of our assignments was that we had to write a letter saying that throwing babies away in garbage cans was wrong. Since this was about a year or so after my younger brother was born, it felt personal to me at the time. I didn't want anyone to throw my little brother away! I didn't know it at the time, but this was right about the time that Roe v. Wade was being decided by the Supreme Court. When I look back on it, I'm *PISSED* that I was being used as ammunition in the debate about abortion when I had *ZERO* comprehension about the issues involved. It is wrong to use young kids to make a political point, period. I don't care what side you are one, if you resort to using young children to advance your message, you have lost the intellectual and moral high ground. You may not have ceded it to the other side, but at best, you've sunk down to their level.

Exactly

Tat'dGreaser: Jake Havechek: I know you are bullshiating as that pic was from another protest, but you're too lazy to even lie successfully.

Well thanks, you've completely turned me over to your side. Next time I'll make sure I have a notepad with at least 25-30 links to obscure websites just so I can please you.

Or maybe I'll just have a f*cking opinion of my own.

A wrong opinion is perfectly valid in your case, so there you go.

Pocket Ninja: I wonder if the same people outraged by this would be outraged equally by this sort of thing:

Link (new window)

I mean, I'm sure they would, it's really just a rhetorical question.


I am completely outraged that public schools are teaching that garbage!

muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo:

Uh huh, sure thing former school teacher now working on wall street who walks through zucotti park 2 or 3 times a day everyday who is not a member but supports it guy.

This may seem pedantic but apparently you need it explained for you.

Oftentimes people find a career is not what they thought it was and move on to something else.

themoreyouknow.jpg

My 8yr old nephew reads the newspaper and could have easily come up with those lyrics on his own. I see is a bunch of people that think children are stupid and incapable of not being lead.

I actually support Occupy but I don't buy the school's bullshiat for a second. A class of 8-year olds did not choose that topic and write that song. The "facilitator" did.

Reverend Monkeypants: My 8yr old nephew reads the newspaper and could have easily come up with those lyrics on his own. I see is a bunch of people that think children are stupid and incapable of not being lead.

Well, some ARE. Others are not. Children are individual human beings - and sweeping generalisations about human beings are wrong far, far more often than they are right.

Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo:

Uh huh, sure thing former school teacher now working on wall street who walks through zucotti park 2 or 3 times a day everyday who is not a member but supports it guy.

This may seem pedantic but apparently you need it explained for you.

Oftentimes people find a career is not what they thought it was and move on to something else.

themoreyouknow.jpg

Yes, and I'm sure he had many 8 year old students writing songs about economics in the many classes he taught.

abb3w: There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;
Sign was painted, it said private property;
But on the back side it didn't say nothing;
This land was made for you and me.

This land is your land,
This land is my land.
I take all your land
Now it's all my land.

jso2897: Reverend Monkeypants: My 8yr old nephew reads the newspaper and could have easily come up with those lyrics on his own. I see is a bunch of people that think children are stupid and incapable of not being lead.

Well, some ARE. Others are not. Children are individual human beings - and sweeping generalisations about human beings are wrong far, far more often than they are right.



So who is the kid who wrote the song?

muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo:

Uh huh, sure thing former school teacher now working on wall street who walks through zucotti park 2 or 3 times a day everyday who is not a member but supports it guy.

This may seem pedantic but apparently you need it explained for you.

Oftentimes people find a career is not what they thought it was and move on to something else.

themoreyouknow.jpg

Yes, and I'm sure he had many 8 year old students writing songs about economics in the many classes he taught.

Are the children in your family really stupid or something? I don't get it.

The Southern Dandy: This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

[pic of Arlo]

Yeah, pretty much this, and then some. I can't believe some of the Commie/Socialist crap that teachers got away with cramming down our throats when we were kids, but that's what happens when you turn your children over to the State and then have absolutely no oversight whatsoever into what is actually being taught the moment that the kids are sequestered behind the closed doors. I recall all too well that there was a propaganda war on, full-strength, through all of the 60's through the 80s in my classrooms, and it was to *both* extremes. By the time we hit graduation we had pretty much learned to tune it out, but by that point decisions had already been made, lines were drawn, and no matter what we decided, the majority of us were all good little chicken-shiat conformists like our parents, and that was all the 'powers that be' ever really wanted. 1% were the über-elite kids who were slumming anyway, the other extreme 1% were the social dissidents who wouldn't have fit in otherwise, and the other 98% just didn't give a fark and wanted to get the hell away from the machine and live a comfortable life away from all of the insanity that our parents had created.

My generation (the X'ers) for the most part did all their "protesting" by simply refusing to participate in the game, but like Rush said: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". We sat on our asses and did nothing for 20 years, and let the fat ball that Nixon started rolling downhill continue to gain momentum, and by our 30's most of the X'ers had sold out and bought into the lie, and the ones like me who didn't and resisted were marginalized and ostracized. Hooray. There was never any "winning" this, it was all decided for us long ago by people who had seen the handwriting on the wall and set this conspiracy in motion before the lesser intellects were able to catch on, and by that point, it all started to look an awful lot like "They Live" was farking prophesy.

Nothing short of a real revolution will solve anything, but no one wants to get their hands dirty or bother with the effort, much less die for the cause. The X'ers are just too damned passive, Gen Y is just a huge bunch of shiat-talking pussies that won't suffer the loss if an iProduct, and whatever these damned new entitled farkers are called are worse than worthless. They don't get taught history, civics, or anything. Short of being the kids of one of the 4K+ soldiers who died overseas for NOTHING, this up-coming generation is completely clueless.

LET THEM sing the songs, because in the end, it doesn't really matter. Nothing anyone can do can stop the fall of America at this point, and if by some freak chance we could, it would mean actual bloody civil war, and that's just not going to end well at all either, and no amount of happy or sad songs in 3rd grade will effect that outcome. They might as well just teach the kids the Sino-Hindi national anthems and prepare them to love Allah, because at the current birth rate of Americans versus the rest of the Chinese/Indian/Muslim world, they will be an absolute irrelevant minority by comparison.

Nixon did the math, saw us losing to China, and sold out his grandchildren long ago. fark him and everyone who helped him do it, and may they all burn in a sulfuric hell forever for bringing us to this: We squabble all day long on an internet that will soon be under the complete control of a handful of corporations that cow-tow to the Neo-Fascist government that is supported by both "sides", while the 1% slink away, laughing the whole time.

It's over. We the People lost. Get used to it, because every single one of you is too damned lazy to do what really needs to be done to fix the real problems.

I don't know. Neither do I know that the kids didn't write it. I am sadly lacking in certainty about things of which I have no knowledge, and have trouble thinking in generalisations
Call it a character flaw.

HotWingConspiracy: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo: Ninepoundhammer: muck4doo:

Uh huh, sure thing former school teacher now working on wall street who walks through zucotti park 2 or 3 times a day everyday who is not a member but supports it guy.

This may seem pedantic but apparently you need it explained for you.

Oftentimes people find a career is not what they thought it was and move on to something else.

themoreyouknow.jpg

Yes, and I'm sure he had many 8 year old students writing songs about economics in the many classes he taught.

Are the children in your family really stupid or something? I don't get it.

Of course you don't. You're too busy writing songs about economics for your children.

The main misunderstanding I'd correct here is the belief that their song was political. OWS never has been a political movement. They don't claim to support any particular party or political agenda. Also, the 99% thing isn't exclusive to OWS. The 99% movement is about people trying to live. It's about trying to remove greed from our lives. This is not political. It's about life, ethics, current events. To let the conservatives label it as a political movement is to let the system they completely control have power over it. They say, "Stop talking! Stop taking action! You just need to vote in our rigged elections in which we control every candidate!"

Conservatives would have us believe that their obviously political agendas are not political, while they simultaneously use any label or tactic they can come up with to attack kids or anyone else who thinks independently. The main message of the conservatives on this is, "Children should not be thinking about right vs wrong. They should just think what WE tell them to think and do what WE tell them to do."

The real question is...are the kids part of the 99%?

Oh, they are? I fail to understand why an understanding of class difference harms our children.

UnityNow: The main misunderstanding I'd correct here is the belief that their song was political. OWS never has been a political movement. They don't claim to support any particular party or political agenda. Also, the 99% thing isn't exclusive to OWS. The 99% movement is about people trying to live. It's about trying to remove greed from our lives. This is not political. It's about life, ethics, current events. To let the conservatives label it as a political movement is to let the system they completely control have power over it. They say, "Stop talking! Stop taking action! You just need to vote in our rigged elections in which we control every candidate!"

Conservatives would have us believe that their obviously political agendas are not political, while they simultaneously use any label or tactic they can come up with to attack kids or anyone else who thinks independently. The main message of the conservatives on this is, "Children should not be thinking about right vs wrong. They should just think what WE tell them to think and do what WE tell them to do."

You sound very convincing that this has nothing to do with politics.

/Tell me about the evil conservatives again.

A Virginia school district is defending a song allegedly written and performed by a group of third graders about the Occupy Wall Street movement that conservative bloggers are calling a form of indoctrination.

...says people who think its a good idea to send their kids to vacation bible school and read to them from a book full of violence & sex, and tell them that if they don't believe in the almighty they're doomed an eternity of damnation.

Indoctrination is only bad when other people do it.

//for the record I wouldn't have gone w/that either and I'm a big believer in what OWS is all about
//8 y.o.'s really don't know shiat about shiat. neither do most 18 y.o.'s either.

thespindrifter: The Southern Dandy: This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

[pic of Arlo]

Yeah, pretty much this, and then some. I can't believe some of the Commie/Socialist crap that teachers got away with cramming down our throats when we were kids, but that's what happens when you turn your children over to the State and then have absolutely no oversight whatsoever into what is actually being taught the moment that the kids are sequestered behind the closed doors. I recall all too well that there was a propaganda war on, full-strength, through all of the 60's through the 80s in my classrooms, and it was to *both* extremes. By the time we hit graduation we had pretty much learned to tune it out, but by that point decisions had already been made, lines were drawn, and no matter what we decided, the majority of us were all good little chicken-shiat conformists like our parents, and that ...

You know, now that they have perfected the "water process" ( a means by which caffeine can be extracted from the coffee bean without spoiling the flavor), it is possible to obtain decaf that is not only drinkable, but outright tasty.
Perhaps you should try some.

The children are already going to be indoctrinated by their parents at home, so i think this is insignificant. when i was in school, children tended to believe what their parents believed, no matter what was taught in the classroom.

/school should be for education, not indoctrination!

BravadoGT: OBBN: BravadoGT: Who could possibly have a problem with public schools indoctrinating 8-year olds with anti-capitalist propaganda?

So, I am assuming that you would have no problem if a school were to indoctrinate it's students with Conservative propaganda? That wouldn't bother you at all? It works both way, right?

Conservative propaganda? No, I wouldn't support that at all. Teaching kids about the positive contribution of capitalism to our country's founding and development? Absolutely.

They already do, teaching about how the colonists were being continually farked over by the British Empire and their business partners on London docks and warehouses by giving the colonists pennies on the pound for supplying trade goods and tobacco without seeing any of the profit, not being allowed to have hard currency or even having a choice as to which vendor they were allowed to buy their tea and other items from.

That's some fair free market capitalism right there.

BravadoGT: Who could possibly have a problem with public schools indoctrinating 8-year olds with anti-capitalist propaganda?

One 'n done . . . 8-year olds are repeating what they hear on the news (and maybe from they're Pinko parents) . . . read the lyrics of the song--they have place singing it than they do some sexually charged pop song . . . they don't even understand the meaning of the words fully . . .

Why can't we let kids be kids anymore, they're growing up too fast in today's world as it is.

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: It is wrong to use young kids to make a political point, period. I don't care what side you are one, if you resort to using young children to advance your message, you have lost the intellectual and moral high ground.

What if it's an issue affecting children? Do you feel it was wrong for a child recipient of health care via SCHIP to make a statement when the GOP was trying to kill it?

Is the child old enough to understand all the issues? If yes (for example, someone in their teens), then it's OK. If you are talking about grammar school age, then no. They may have a dog in the fight, but they don't have the mental capacity or information to understand the fight, and thus their opinion is actually less than worthless, and they are highly susceptible to simply spouting what has been spoon-fed to them. In other words, when it comes to public policy debates, they are essentially puppets being manipulated behind the scenes.

It's really not a hard concept to understand.

You don't know him very well.