She uses the app GasBuddy to check prices at nearby stations before she buys gas for her car

She owns a car, a smart-phone and a data-plan. She's not poor.

But but but but.......

If you give the super wealthy and corporations deep tax cuts, they have even more money, then the wealth "trickles down", and jobs are magically created out of thin air, completely outside of demand, consumer financial strength or the RULES OF SIMPLE GODDAMN LOGIC!

Get me some job security and I'll consume more.

Knows what it means to be poor:

Nobody has had any farking money since Bush decided to fark the poor and working class in order to cater to his rich buddies.

After 30 years of the skim, banks and investment houses have finally killed the golden goose.

netweavr: She uses the app GasBuddy to check prices at nearby stations before she buys gas for her car

She owns a car, a smart-phone and a data-plan. She's not poor.

The article didn't say she was poor. The article talks about consumers not spending much money. She uses her smartphone to find the cheapest gas, which can make good financial sense.

National health care would remove both the front-end and back-end costs to businesses of providing and administering health insurance.

What's not to like about that?
Why do businesses hate America?

Plus, people with secure and portable health insurance wouldn't cling to jobs they hate and businesses would benefit from lowered costs and having happier employees.

The Unites States is the only Western First-World nation in which this is too hard to understand, much less get done. Too busy sending shipping pallets of hundred dollar bills to Irak and other hellholes? Oh, right. Gotcha.

/Maybe people who aren't running scared all the time would start thinking about how much their government sucks ass and doesn't serve them anymore.

Jake Havechek: Nobody has had any farking money since Bush Congress decided to fark the poor and working class in order to cater to his their rich buddies for the last 30 years.

FTFY

Maybe they should get a better job and make some more.

Grapple: brigid_fitch: BKITU: I can only afford a Magic 3-ball. =(

Don't worry. As long as you own a refrigerator, you're not poor.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 640x349]

imagine how bad it must suck to be in that 0.4%... :(

And how scary it must be hearing about the other 99% protesting your existence in cities across the country!They are probably all thinking "holy crap...we can't even afford a fridge...why does everyone hate us?!?"

Every time I read this shiat I wish we could dig Reagan's corpse up and throw it into a pool of liquid raw sewage.

Consumers out of money after Christmas? tag on vacation?

/DRTFA

Maybe they should get a better job and make some more.

Maybe our economic system should stop being based on people spending money that they don't have.

cryinoutloud: Maybe our economic system should stop being based on people spending money that they don't have.

Changing our entire economic system doesn't seem like a viable solution.

netweavr: She uses the app GasBuddy to check prices at nearby stations before she buys gas for her car

She owns a car, a smart-phone and a data-plan. She's not poor.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: An economy that is 70% driven by consumer spending is at severe risk in even a slight downturn in the economy. Throw in stagnated wages, accelerating inflation and an severe upward redistribution of wealth/profits, and the consumer is backed into a financial corner that they'll never get out of, no matter how many boot-straps they pull up on.

Of course, increasing government revenues, gentle price/inflation controls and smarter, more direct investment in direct spending would bring the consumer/government spending gap more into balance, but that would be the second coming of Stalin, as I hear it.

thanks for the laugh, it's been a bit of a slow morning.

The solution is definitely more tax cuts for the 1%.

IrateShadow: Maybe they should get a better job and make some more.

If only everyone could be doctors and lawyers then all of our problems would be solved, except that our trash would pile up sky high because what doctor or lawyer would want to be a garbage man?

Pincy: IrateShadow: Maybe they should get a better job and make some more.

If only everyone could be doctors and lawyers then all of our problems would be solved, except that our trash would pile up sky high because what doctor or lawyer would want to be a garbage man?

Easy: get an engineer to build a WALL-E. Well, okay, he wouldn't *build* it, he'd design it and a factory would make it--a factory staffed exclusively by robots, of course, because the humans would all be floating around on hoverchairs in a starship.

Helen_Arigby: Pincy: IrateShadow: Maybe they should get a better job and make some more.

If only everyone could be doctors and lawyers then all of our problems would be solved, except that our trash would pile up sky high because what doctor or lawyer would want to be a garbage man?

Easy: get an engineer to build a WALL-E. Well, okay, he wouldn't *build* it, he'd design it and a factory would make it--a factory staffed exclusively by robots, of course, because the humans would all be floating around on hoverchairs in a starship.

Don't be ridiculous. The factory would be staffed by illegal immigrants and/or inmates from private prisons.

There is absolutely nothing better than being debt free.*

I pay cash for everything.



* mortgage not included.

Rent Party: There is absolutely nothing better than being debt free.*

I pay cash for everything.



* mortgage not included.

Sure there is: not needing an asterisk. Even better would be not spending $15k / year on taxes, heating and maintenance.

H31N0US: Rent Party: There is absolutely nothing better than being debt free.*

I pay cash for everything.



* mortgage not included.

Sure there is: not needing an asterisk. Even better would be not spending $15k / year on taxes, heating and maintenance.

I benefit from the tax deduction on the mortgage, and I also have equity in the home. The people taking a beating are the folks that bought spec housing in developments.

Would I be better off with no mortgage? Probably. But I'd also be living in some shiatty rental, so the debt there is a good trade off. I still have positive net worth, regardless.

H31N0US: Sure there is: not needing an asterisk.

Meh on some of the asterisks. Mortgage and student loans are both at fixed at 4% over 30 years, and my wife wouldn't even have to pay off the latter if I died tomorrow. I could pay them off now. Not doing it. I'm making a slight gamble that I'll get over 4% long-term on the money invested elsewhere. It's a decent gamble, historically, and not a wildly high-stakes bet if I'm wrong.

Slackfumasta: netweavr: She uses the app GasBuddy to check prices at nearby stations before she buys gas for her car

She owns a car, a smart-phone and a data-plan. She's not poor.

The article didn't say she was poor. The article talks about consumers not spending much money. She uses her smartphone to find the cheapest gas, which can make good financial sense.

You're missing the point. As long as anyone can afford anything at all, the Republican strategy has not gone far enough. Or something; anyways, quit whining or we'll starve you to death.

Rent Party: I benefit from the tax deduction on the mortgage

Maybe I'm not thinking straight or I don't know how it works.

Assume I make $100k and am in the 25% bracket. If I have no mortgage, I am paying $25k in taxes so I get to keep $75k for hookers, blow and Jamesons.

If I instead pay $10k in deductible mortgage interest, my taxable income goes down so I now pay $22.5k in taxes but also pay that $10k. When the dust settles I only have $100k - $10k - $22.5k = $67.5k for hookers, blow and Jamesons. That's $7.5k less than if I had no mortgage. Now I am looking at meth, not blow. Not good...not even once.

Now if the deduction actually moved your tax bracket it could mitigate that damage, but you would have to slide from the 25% bracket all the way to 17% for it to net off.

Paying interest to a bank to save a fraction of it in taxes is not a smart move if you can avoid it...and it is just another example of how the banks have lobbied taxpayer robbery into law.

Rent Party: There is absolutely nothing better than being debt free.*

I pay cash for everything

What's wrong with using a credit card? I use my credit card all the time and other than my mortgage I am debt free as well? What am I doing wrong?

H31N0US: Assume I make $100k and am in the 25% bracket. If I have no mortgage, I am paying $25k in taxes

Taxes (brackets) DO NOT WORK THAT WAY. You make Morbo angry. It's on your marginal income. Your first $20k or so is untaxed. Your next $8500 is taxed at 10%. The number of people paying above 30% on straight 1040 income tax is vanishingly small, even though lots of people are in the 35% bracket.

That said, your question is unrelated. In part because you still need somewhere to live (rent). Which, historically, cost more per month than owning/mortgage/tax (since your landlord was paying mortgage or tying up his money PLUS expecting to make money on the deal). And in part because the money might be doing something better (either investing in something that might make over 5%, or avoiding going into 20% interest credit card debt).

Lawnchair: Taxes (brackets) DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Settle down. I know. It is a simplified example, like an infinite frictionless surface in physics class.

dletter: which, is what I assume you are advocating vs. owning

No, I am advocating paying off the mortgage asap. I know people that say "why pay off my mortgage when I get tax benefit" and I cringe. The rent vs buy discussion depends on a whole other set of parameters, none the least of which is that you should buy now or be priced out forever.

H31N0US: Rent Party: I benefit from the tax deduction on the mortgage

Maybe I'm not thinking straight or I don't know how it works.

Assume I make $100k and am in the 25% bracket. If I have no mortgage, I am paying $25k in taxes so I get to keep $75k for hookers, blow and Jamesons.

If I instead pay $10k in deductible mortgage interest, my taxable income goes down so I now pay $22.5k in taxes but also pay that $10k. When the dust settles I only have $100k - $10k - $22.5k = $67.5k for hookers, blow and Jamesons. That's $7.5k less than if I had no mortgage. Now I am looking at meth, not blow. Not good...not even once.

Now if the deduction actually moved your tax bracket it could mitigate that damage, but you would have to slide from the 25% bracket all the way to 17% for it to net off.

Paying interest to a bank to save a fraction of it in taxes is not a smart move if you can avoid it...and it is just another example of how the banks have lobbied taxpayer robbery into law.

In my case, it moves us from the top bracket to the 25% range, and allows me to take advantage of a whole lot of other deductions I would otherwise cap out on.

And like I said, I might find a better investment with the mortgage money elsewhere, but I'd have to live in a shiatty rental, and when I move, that money is gone. This way, even if I don't make more than the mortgage, I still get some of it back when I sell.

Pincy: Rent Party: There is absolutely nothing better than being debt free.*

I pay cash for everything

What's wrong with using a credit card? I use my credit card all the time and other than my mortgage I am debt free as well? What am I doing wrong?

You are inserting a middle man into your otherwise cash transactions. Not wrong, per se, but if you aren't carrying any debt on the card, why not put it on the shelf and just pay cash and take the bank out of the equation entirely?

H31N0US: Lawnchair: Taxes (brackets) DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Settle down. I know. It is a simplified example, like an infinite frictionless surface in physics class.

dletter: which, is what I assume you are advocating vs. owning

No, I am advocating paying off the mortgage asap. I know people that say "why pay off my mortgage when I get tax benefit" and I cringe. The rent vs buy discussion depends on a whole other set of parameters, none the least of which is that you should buy now or be priced out forever.

Because the most tax benefit of the mortgage comes at the top of the amortization chart when you are paying the most interest. If you're 15 years in on a 20 year note and can pay it off, you probably should. If you're five years in on a 30 year note, you may want to weigh the tax advantages a little more closely.