You've seen one Stradivarius you've seen them all.

And I bet a numismatist could tell the difference between a 1919D dime or a freshly minted one by how it worked in a vending machine.
It doesn't mean one's not worth more than the other.

/I'm grasping

So it might well be that the reason we can't duplicate Stradivarius' mysterious production methods or reproduce his legendary tones is because they don't exist?

Overpriced snake-oil sold to idiots who think that a 5-10x increase in price will magically improve their experience?

Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.

If it's anything like wine, 95% of them don't improve with age in the first place, and many of the remaining are corked by the time you decide to break it out.

Land Ark: And I bet a numismatist could tell the difference between a 1919D dime or a freshly minted one by how it worked in a vending machine.
It doesn't mean one's not worth more than the other.

/I'm grasping

Undoubtedly a Stradivarius is worth more by historical value alone. That was never the target of the study.

Yeah, and vinyl sounds better than CDs.

Make sure to buy the protection plan.

Zombie Eater: Overpriced snake-oil sold to idiots who think that a 5-10x increase in price will magically improve their experience?

Welcome to the world of Gibson Les Paul guitars.

Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.

Not quite what the article reported: professional musicians can't tell the difference.

Here is a better one:

Stradivarius: the Gibson of the violin world.

So now 21 violinists at an unnamed competition consist of a proper test group?

I've seen better scientific rigor on Mythbusters.

bdub77: Not surprised at all. Have you ever seen a virtuoso take up someone's crappy instrument and make it sing? I have. It's amazing. You wonder how anyone could pull notes like that out of such an ordinary, dull-sounding instrument.

That said, there is often a world of difference in sound between a $500 instrument and a $5000 instrument, especially for the average player.

And from the article, the "modern" instruments had a combined value of $100,000 so we're certainly talking about the kind of instruments used by serious players and professionals.

I think comparing to modern instruments isn't exactly fair. Stradivarius was probably very good compared to contemporaries, and were made at a time where the science and ability to secure consistent materials was not available -- so they stood out based on quality control that was superior in its day. Certainly nowadays we should be able to build better violins -- we can use computers to analyze the acoustics, carve the instruments with laser precision machining, and use materials with consistent and ideal properties.

Point02GPA: Zombie Eater~

Do you have the address for that snake-oil company? My joints are starting to act up because of the change in this wacky weather. Plus, the new price seems very reasonable. Thaxs

Link (new window)

...airplane's upsidedown....

steelkidney: So now 21 violinists at an unnamed competition consist of a proper test group?

I've seen better scientific rigor on Mythbusters.

No you haven't.

Pear Cables mysterious silent.


/and expensive

It's not about the sound or actual quality, it's about unattainable "legend" and myth surrounding these instruments.

Some musicians can understand this. Case point - Jack White recorded most of the first 2 white stripes albums on a Sears Silvertone Amplifier (complete with Jensen speakers).

And yet, after years of playing my crappy BC Rich NJ series electric guitar, the day I stepped up to my friends Paul Reed Smith guitar (*and a bottom end one; no birds on the frets (back when that was +$1000 range only)) I swear to gord I sounded like Jimi Hendrix.

Quality goods are quality.

However super-top end stuff is not going to be noticeable by average schmucks.


/still have that crappy BC Rich NJ Series. Despite its flaws (weak pickups, significant rounding of the frets on the edges of the finger board so strings just slide off, low E 'problems') if you can't make it sound "close enough for rock and roll", you suck.

Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.

If it's anything like wine, 95% of them don't improve with age in the first place, and many of the remaining are corked by the time you decide to break it out.

For most people:



is to



As



is to

Stradiwhovius?

/oblig

Violins are like wine: neither should be put up the butt.

GreatBunzinni: Here is a better one:

Stradivarius: the Gibson of the violin world.

Oh boy, now you've done it...

_{I wholeheartedly agree, but you've done some major trolling here, sir. Good luck.}

mekkab: However super-top end stuff is not going to be noticeable by average schmucks.

additionally, to get incrementally better stuff, you pay exponentially more.


Does that mean that the Stradivaris are worth it? Depends on your aim. Do you want to hold a piece of history? Absolutely. Do you just want something that sounds pro quality? You'll find a new-school luthier who can cut you a deal.

Would like a word or two with tardmitter:

Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.


An interesting analogy since modern wines are higher quality than the wines we made hundreds of years ago. Very old bottles are highly sought after, sure, but the winemakers of previous eras did not have access to the accumulated knowledge we now have, modern scientific knowledge, modern equipment, modern materials, etc. etc..... Modern wines are of higher quality than wine has ever been.

Stabone33: Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.

If it's anything like wine, 95% of them don't improve with age in the first place, and many of the remaining are corked by the time you decide to break it out.

For most people:

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is to

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As

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 296x347]

is to

[nepaldog.typepad.com image 500x375]

beautiful post, beautiful pics (is that a yak with the Franzia? That dude knows how to PARTAY!)

steelkidney: So now 21 violinists at an unnamed competition consist of a proper test group?

I've seen better scientific rigor on Mythbusters.

steelkidney: So now 21 violinists at an unnamed competition consist of a proper test group?

I've seen better scientific rigor on Mythbusters.

Your comment makes no sense.

DiamondDave: Welcome to the world of Gibson Les Paul guitars.

This. Though vintage Fenders are getting that way too.

Having played a number of Les Pauls, I can say that they can be a great guitar. That being said, my experience with them is hit or miss. Some are great, some suck out loud. Some of that may have been how they were set up, but some were so bad, I don't think any amount of correction short of taking it to a luthier would have cleaned it to acceptable standards. Then again, that may just be my personal tastes.

I've yet to play an mid to upper end Ibanez RG series guitar that didn't play like butter and cost about 1/3 the cost of an LP.

I've yet to play a PRS CU 24, 22 or McCarty that didn't play like butter, though it's gonna cost you about the same as an LP-- and maybe more.

mongbiohazard: Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.


An interesting analogy since modern wines are higher quality than the wines we made hundreds of years ago. Very old bottles are highly sought after, sure, but the winemakers of previous eras did not have access to the accumulated knowledge we now have, modern scientific knowledge, modern equipment, modern materials, etc. etc..... Modern wines are of higher quality than wine has ever been.

word; most stuff back then was PLONK. Barely drinkable, probably sour, got your rocks off. And if it was corked... you drank it anyway.

/which makes modern purveyors of plonk completely irresponsible

BokerBill: Tr0mBoNe: No, it's more like wine. Some new ones are good, some new ones are bad, most old ones are better, and most people can't tell the difference.

Not quite what the article reported: professional musicians can't tell the difference.

So it's *exactly* like wine then?

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/11/the_subjectivity_of_wine.php

danvon: Having played a number of Les Pauls, I can say that they can be a great guitar. That being said, my experience with them is hit or miss. Some are great, some suck out loud. Some of that may have been how they were set up, but some were so bad, I don't think any amount of correction short of taking it to a luthier would have cleaned it to acceptable standards. Then again, that may just be my personal tastes.

I got a book "How to make your guitar sound great" and it is ALL about the setup. They even give you these plastic/placard cutouts to take radial measurements of your fret board and teach how to make your own tools. obviously I just read it and said "Wow. I should pay someone else to do this for me!"

But yeah... getting a guitar from a shop is only the start.

jabelar: I think comparing to modern instruments isn't exactly fair. Stradivarius was probably very good compared to contemporaries, and were made at a time where the science and ability to secure consistent materials was not available -- so they stood out based on quality control that was superior in its day. Certainly nowadays we should be able to build better violins -- we can use computers to analyze the acoustics, carve the instruments with laser precision machining, and use materials with consistent and ideal properties.

Exactly. Remember when Beethoven was rockin out on that synthesizer from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? No complaints. And Ludwig loved to complain.

jabelar: I think comparing to modern instruments isn't exactly fair. Stradivarius was probably very good compared to contemporaries, and were made at a time where the science and ability to secure consistent materials was not available -- so they stood out based on quality control that was superior in its day. Certainly nowadays we should be able to build better violins -- we can use computers to analyze the acoustics, carve the instruments with laser precision machining, and use materials with consistent and ideal properties.

This. It was unmatched for hundreds of years. Today, not so much.

mortimer_ford: And Ludwig loved to complain.

old deaf guy never heard anyone stop him...

Stop the violins!

I'm very partial to my Epiphone Dot. I got lucky and found one that sounds and plays better than a former LP custom I used to own. I like the larger archtop bodies and the alnico humbuckers are chunky where they need to be and bright on the higher end. Not as brittle as a tele, but I prefer warmer tones.