Trying hard to give a damn...

Failed.

that would be the Shi'ites and Kurds.

/just wanted to say Shi'ites and Kurds

Both Israeli and Palestinian officials have done nothing to raise expectations ahead of the meeting,

Raised expectations just leads to bigger disappointments.

Waiting for the Israeli guilt trip train to come runnin' through

choo choo

Apparently, subby has never been married.

Why don't they just do "odds and evens" to decide.

Some sunny day?

JeffDudeLebowski: Waiting for the Israeli guilt trip train to come runnin' through

choo choo

You know who else waited for Jews on trains?

Archie Goodwin: Meet again? I thought they lived in the same house

They do. But one of them has hung a sheet across the middle of the living room.

It's more like "painted a line down the center"...

...but yeah. That.

// bonus: it's just like those two white guys doing it - YOU HAVE THE SAME CULTURE, NUMBNUTS!!!

Dr Dreidel: It's more like "painted a line down the center"...

Well I was going to say, locked in your room with no video games and lights at 7:30, but that implies a paternal relationship. When it's really more like having a run down house and a bunch of squatters show up and start renovating the parts they want to live it and then taking the original owner to court for possession -- but then the analogy gets all complicated and shiat.

Israelis and Palestinians living in the same house made me think of



So, who is their lawyer??

These things always work out so well... Then Israel goes and violates another U.N. order... Blames Palestinians for the violation... And then it's on again!!!

This reminds me of a time when I worked in the same building with one of my roommates but didn't see him for six months except once in passing 70mph traffic on the Cross-County.

richie65: These things always work out so well... Then Israel goes and violates another U.N. order... Blames Palestinians for the violation... And then it's on again!!!

Yes, a UN order criticizing Israel's nerve to stop missile attacks on Israeli cities. If only the UN could actually pay attention to the missile attacks themselves but that'll be asking far too much.

They're kind of like the Shakers, except without the cool furniture and little boxes.

TappingTheVein:

Yes, a UN order criticizing Israel's nerve to stop missile attacks on Israeli cities. If only the UN could actually pay attention to the missile attacks themselves but that'll be asking far too much.

You sound like someone who is likely not very familiar with the U.N. sanctions or why they exist... And no more than dimly aware of what is REALLY happening.

After living in that part of the world (85-89) - I have seen (first hand, and on countless occasions) who is actually instigating. And I have dozens of friends who still live there (Non-Zionist Jews in Israel, Muslim, Christians and Buddhists in Lebanon) that keep me up to date.

It's like the two siblings sitting in the back seat... One keeps antagonizing the other and claims they aren't doing anything wrong. The aggressor ends up gaining most the pity.

I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand it.

I assume subby was referencing Munich. If so, nice job.

fark Israel. War criminal thieves that play the victim card when some starving and homeless lunatic blows themselves up at a checkpoint. They're the only country that needs to be put in check in that area. Hell, if we stop funding their abuses or even stop using our power to veto UN Resolutions that aren't pro-zionism maybe that entire region of the world wouldn't hate us anymore.

Our last veto, last February, was a resolution to condemn all Israeli settlements built since 1967 and call for a halt to new settlements. Now, everyone, including the US and except for Israel sees their occupations as illegal under international law. While occupying the West Bank and Gaza illegally, they bring it further by violating treaties to which they are a party - most notably, Geneva -and we keep sending them more foreign aid than we do for any other country. Including developing countries.

I can't see how anyone sides with Israel on the issue of West Bank and Gaza.

Honkey Magoo:

AIPAC (new window)

Get the money out of politics.... But any politician that tries to oppose the AIPAC can count on being called an Anti-Semite.

Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust" (new window)

richie65: You sound like someone who is likely not very familiar with the U.N. sanctions or why they exist... And no more than dimly aware of what is REALLY happening.

Bahaha.. good one. I live at "that part of the world" for more than 3 decades and i'm very well aware of the farce known as the UN.

richie65: And I have dozens of friends who still live there (Non-Zionist Jews in Israel, Muslim, Christians and Buddhists in Lebanon) that keep me up to date.

Oh i'm sure they do. especially the nom-Zionist types. I'm sure they do.

richie65: I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand it.

I can also explain this to you but ill be wasting my time. You should discuss it with someone with a more balanced view like your friends.

Honkey Magoo: when some starving and homeless lunatic blows themselves up at a checkpoint

Yeah it's always the homeless lunatics. The thousands of missile and rocket attacks are also homeless lunatics. The terrorist attacks from Gaza after Israel no longer occupied it are also Homeless. And lunatic.
Hamas are lunatics, i'll give you that.
Go read their charter and the PLO's, which was established before there was any occupation or a single settlement. Maybe you'll stop spouting up bullshiat.

TappingTheVein:

I can also explain this to you but ill be wasting my time. You should discuss it with someone with a more balanced view like your friends.

Recently from a friend of mine... Actually just today:

Rabbi Shlomo Riskin Condemns Violent West Bank Settlers (new window)

Your 3 decades of "very aware" appear to be less a fact and more of an opinion you like to cling to... Or so it seems...

Zionists prefer to call the U.N. a farce because it is easier than having to face reality.

Zionism finds a convenient hiding place behind the Hebrew faith.

Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic? (new window)

richie65: Recently from a friend of mine... Actually just today:

Rabbi Shlomo Riskin Condemns Violent West Bank Settlers (new window)

Um, your point being ? I also condemn West bank settlers.

richie65: Your 3 decades of "very aware" appear to be less a fact and more of an opinion you like to cling to... Or so it seems...

Eh ? i was amused that you base your opinion on your 'Non-Zionist' friends. Non-Zionists meaning those who deny Israel's right to exist. Or do your friends have another definition ?

richie65: Zionists prefer to call the U.N. a farce because it is easier than having to face reality

You mean the reality in which the UN is a farce ? i wouldn't even know where to begin. Seriously, you should do some reading on the subject.

richie65: Zionism finds a convenient hiding place behind the Hebrew faith.

As an atheist i find this comment hilarious!

richie65: Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?

Nope. Only when it contain anti-semitic material.

TappingTheVein:

Eh ? i was amused that you base your opinion on your 'Non-Zionist' friends. Non-Zionists meaning those who deny Israel's right to exist. Or do your friends have another definition ?

Wow - You really need to expand your horizons...

For example:
NETUREI KARTA - Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews (new window)

RTFA Riskins' sentiment extends beyond the 'West Bank' and points to what groups like the U.N. and Amnesty International are condemning
Rabbi Shlomo Riskin Condemns Violent West Bank Settlers (new window)

WTFV
YouTube (new window)

richie65: Wow - You really need to expand your horizons...

For example:
NETUREI KARTA - Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews

I know and met people from Neturei karta. I know exactly what they are and what their view on Israel is. They are anti-zionists, they hold the view that Israel shouldn't exist.

Do you have a point or just like to make baseless observations ?

richie65: RTFA Riskins' sentiment extends beyond the 'West Bank' and points to what groups like the U.N. and Amnesty International are condemning
Rabbi Shlomo Riskin Condemns Violent West Bank Settlers (new window)

Again, do you have a point ?
He was talking specifically about the last 'Tag Mehir' phenomena. I've read it in the original hebrew in the morning paper.

richie65: WTFV
YouTube (new window)

Answered in the previous post. pay attention.

richie65: Wow - You really need to expand your horizons...

For example:
NETUREI KARTA - Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews

I know and met people from Neturei Karta. I know exactly what they are and what their view on Israel is. They are anti-zionists, they hold the view that Israel shouldn't exist.

Do you have a point or just like to make baseless observations ?

richie65: RTFA Riskins' sentiment extends beyond the 'West Bank' and points to what groups like the U.N. and Amnesty International are condemning
Rabbi Shlomo Riskin Condemns Violent West Bank Settlers (new window)

Again, do you have a point ?
He was talking specifically about the last 'Tag Mehir' phenomena. I've read it in the original hebrew in the morning paper.

richie65: WTFV
YouTube (new window)

Answered in the previous post. pay attention.

Didn't mean to double post. But hey, maybe it'll help you grasp the idea.

Yup... I get it now.

You ask for examples and then dismiss. How convenient.

"read it in the original hebrew in the morning paper." Nope... No Bias there whatsoever.
At least you share what it is that keeps you in the dark while spoon feeding you only what you need to know.

The UN and Amnesty International are Hate groups - It's all a conspiracy. Cling to that!

If Israel were destined to exist... It would not require billions in weaponry.

At what point does a government have a 'RIGHT' to exist. How arrogant!!!

Riskin points out:

"Because you are convinced that all your deeds are [in the name of God], you will never admit that you have sinned..."

richie65: You ask for examples and then dismiss. How convenient.

Huh ? dismiss what ? I didn't ask for examples of non-zionist jews, i'm very well aware of, like i said, of the insanity of Neturei Karta.

richie65: Nope... No Bias there whatsoever

What bias ? i pointed out that i was aware of the article having read it in my morning paper. I also knew the cause for the article (tag Mehir), which i'm quite sure you had no clue about.

richie65: The UN and Amnesty International are Hate groups - It's all a conspiracy. Cling to that!

1. i never said that. Didn't even mention Amnesty. and 2. I gave you links of examples to why i consider the UN a farce.

Not only you don't have any point whatsover you also lie for some reason.

richie65: f Israel were destined to exist... It would not require billions in weaponry.

At what point does a government have a 'RIGHT' to exist. How arrogant!!!

Never said it destined to exist, never said anything about weaponry. I explained what anti-zionism means.

richie65: Riskin points out:

"Because you are convinced that all your deeds are [in the name of God], you will never admit that you have sinned..."

Like i already explained, the name of god holds no interest to me. None at all.
And, again: he was talking specifically about the 'Tag Mehir' incidents which you don't seem to know anything about.

Unless you have an actual point which is not coming from voices in your head i conclude that i was wasting my time.

TappingTheVein:

Then you agree that Israel should fend for themselves and that the billions in weaponry and aid the U.S. provides is inappropriate?

The argument used to justify the existence of Israel is based entirely upon conjectured / biblical cherry picking. Not all Jews accept that - Neturei Karta is just one such group (In answer to your: Non-Zionists meaning those who deny Israel's right to exist. Or do your friends have another definition?)

As an Atheist, you must certainly see that biblical justification as a lie.

Though that agenda is used to justify killing Arabs.

You seem to think that Arabs are the aggressors, but contrary to what you have been told... Israeli officials sit in peace talks while their operatives continue to steal land. When an Arab tries to defend their home... The fact that Israel attacked the home in the first place is magically forgotten.

And meanwhile back in the peace talks Israel promises to not take anymore land... And then they do it anyway.
(If I had not seen this with my own eyes I would have a hard time believing it too.)

So the U.N. documents the treaty violations and you call them a sham.

The U.N. is not the only agency that repeatedly finds Israel criminally negligent... Among others, Amnesty International has found the same thing. So if you say one is lying.... Then presumably both are... Right?

So here we are back to so called 'Peace Treaty' season... Israel will sit down knowing full well that it is (again) another opportunity to take more or what is not theirs and wait for their victims to retaliate...

Hence -

TheShavingofOccam123: B..b..b..but there are no Palestinians. They're Arabs.

/just dehumanizing...amidoinitrite?

Are you saying Arabs are not human? How racist of you!

*sigh* Both sides are at fault. Can't we just admit this and go about trying to mitigate the problem? An issue I see is that one side has a fringe movement that won't rest until the other side doesn't exist. This is called a crime against humanity and should be punished as such. Israel needs to stop responding to those cowardly acts with acts of mass terrorism of it's own (blowing up neighborhoods with cluster bombs to flush out a rocket launcher).

A better question is: Can there actually ever be peace?

Honkey Magoo: fark Israel. War criminal thieves that play the victim card when some starving and homeless lunatic blows themselves up at a checkpoint. They're the only country that needs to be put in check in that area. Hell, if we stop funding their abuses or even stop using our power to veto UN Resolutions that aren't pro-zionism maybe that entire region of the world wouldn't hate us anymore.

Why stop there? Why not implement a Final Solution to the Jewish Problem? Then the Palestinians will be our best friends, like this guy:



Link

richie65: Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?

If you apply a different standard to the Israelis than to the Arabs (or any other group), it's safe to say you're an anti-Semite.

mike0023: richie65: Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?

If you apply a different standard to the Israelis than to the Arabs (or any other group), it's safe to say you're an anti-Semite.

Are lesbians anti-semite?

richie65: Then you agree that Israel should fend for themselves and that the billions in weaponry and aid the U.S. provides is inappropriate?

How is this relevant to what we were discussing ? i don't but i'm honestly curious, please explain.

richie65: The argument used to justify the existence of Israel is based entirely upon conjectured / biblical cherry picking. Not all Jews accept that - Neturei Karta is just one such group (In answer to your: Non-Zionists meaning those who deny Israel's right to exist. Or do your friends have another definition?)

Israel exists because it does and has the power to maintain that fact no thanks to several arab attempts. Neturei Karta are crazier than a shiathouse rat and they believe that Israel's destruction is God's command. That's why they kiss (literally) the ass of everyone who poses any threat to Israel's well being like hizballah/iran/hamas.

I never asked anything, i explained what anti-zionism means especially when religious nutjobs like Neturei Karta are involved.

richie65: As an Atheist, you must certainly see that biblical justification as a lie.

I'm an atheist but i'm also aware of the actual real history of the region and i am aware of the fact that jews lived in what is now Israel as evident by concrete evidence like archaeological finds and actual history.
biblical justification does not interest me. The fact that israel is the homeland of the jewish people is a historic very real fact.

richie65: Though that agenda is used to justify killing Arabs

Are these the voices in your head ? i think you should brush up on your history on who tried to kill what. I won't bother lecturing you in history which you so obviously have no clue about.

richie65: You seem to think that Arabs are the aggressors, but contrary to what you have been told... Israeli officials sit in peace talks while their operatives continue to steal land. When an Arab tries to defend their home... The fact that Israel attacked the home in the first place is magically forgotten.

The things you don't seem to be aware of: leaving gaza resulting in stronger attacks on israeli cities, peace talks where almost everything was offered to the palestinians where they declined (Camp David), the PLO created before there was a single settlement and zero occupation, the fact that 20% of israeli citizens are arabs, palestinians being ruled by terrorist organizations who see israel in its entirly as occupation etc etc and so on.
You get the idea. I'm starting to believe that you get all your info from Neturei Karta.

richie65: And meanwhile back in the peace talks Israel promises to not take anymore land... And then they do it anyway

Can you be more specific ? when and where ? are you even aware of the fact that the israeli government have been forcefully evicting new settlements ? or are you referring to houses being built in area which are going to remain under Israel's control in every future agreement ?

richie65: So the U.N. documents the treaty violations and you call them a sham

And again you lie. No i didn't call any document a sham, i pointed out that the UN is a farce and provided a link for you to educate yourself.
Also ask yourself why the UN doesn't seem to be bothered with the palestinians for example, bombing israeli cities for close to a decade with thousands of rockets and missiles.

richie65: The U.N. is not the only agency that repeatedly finds Israel criminally negligent... Among others, Amnesty International has found the same thing. So if you say one is lying.... Then presumably both are... Right?

Be specific. We were discussing the UN being a farce. by all means bring anything from Amnesty International and i'll be happy to discuss it with you.

richie65: So here we are back to so called 'Peace Treaty' season... Israel will sit down knowing full well that it is (again) another opportunity to take more or what is not theirs and wait for their victims to retaliate...

Peace with whom ? Hamas joined by the PLO ? maybe you should read both their charters and something called the Phased Plan.

mike0023: richie65: Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?

If you apply a different standard to the Israelis than to the Arabs (or any other group), it's safe to say you're an anti-Semite.

Your observation proves the point perfectly...

The issue has less to do with 'Standards' than it has to do with how subjectively when anything remotely having to do with Israel is being criticized - The critic can almost count on being called an anti-semite.

This particular defense mechanism attempts to prevent criticism of Israel. It has nothing to do with anti-semiteism... It is a ploy.

Can you mention any other international identity that employs a similar tactic? If so, THEN there is reason to examine standards.

If you had done more that read the text... You know... watch the video / educate yourself (it seems like you skipped that step)... You would not have posted such an inane comment.

TappingTheVein:

We were discussing the UN being a farce

No, I pointed out that talking to Israel about peace is a farce... I also pointed out that this type of futility is well documented... And YOU tried to be ButtHurt about it.

Jews are not entitled to a specific patch of dirt any more or any less than are any other cultural identity. It is arrogant to assume otherwise.

The sad thing is that the way this particular patch of dirt was obtained was justified, countenanced and completed using a mixture of religion, bullets and explosives... Because they are Jewish... That concept is discriminatory and arrogant. To be certain, there were people living in that area before there was such a thing as the religion of David... By that standard, squatters rights go elsewhere regardless... Probably to the ancestors of some Bedouins I guess...

The vulgarity of this whole thing is that the same methods (a mixture of religion, bullets and explosives) used to gain that patch of dirt are going to be the same methods used to try and take it back... The tragedy is that the Israeli government has encouraged its population to grow, thus magnifying the number of lives that will likely be lost when the surrounding countries have had enough. it's as if the concept has created a human shield to hide behind.

The Religious texts they attempt to fall back on are plagiarized from Sumerian history / mythology (To be fair all of the religions that originated in the Middle East are similarly plagiarized)... Cuneiform tablets bearing the same 'Promised Land' concept had been produced well before the time of David...

Except Zionism... That is modern politics hiding in religious garb.

Certainly you have that much of history in your grasp...

Israel will continue the same game they have been playing for years... The only remotely amicable solution has them honor the U.N. resolution that pushes them back to the '67 borders... They manage to prevent that from happening by keeping the fires burning on the wrong side of that agreement.

Actual peace talks would prevent them from keeping that pot stirred up.... They have no incentive for peace because it would also prevent the expansion required to address the population growth Israel continues to encourage.

richie65: No, I pointed out that talking to Israel about peace is a farce... I also pointed out that this type of futility is well documented... And YOU tried to be ButtHurt about it.

Nope, we weren't. We were discussing the UN specifically and i provided you with proof for my claim which you, of course, ignored.
A couple of posts later you mentioned peace talks, never providing evidence.

I'll just mark it as richie65's lie #7.

richie65: Jews are not entitled to a specific patch of dirt any more or any less than are any other cultural identity. It is arrogant to assume otherwise.

Correct. That's why they had the Partition Plan in the first place. Guess who rejected it and attacked the other party ? go on, take a guess.

richie65: The sad thing is that the way this particular patch of dirt was obtained was justified, countenanced and completed using a mixture of religion, bullets and explosives... Because they are Jewish... That concept is discriminatory and arrogant

And here you ignore every major event in the region's history from zionist organizations buying land more than a century ago to settle in, the fact that jews lived in that region before 48', the fact that the first Alliyas (i doubt you know what that means) were eastern european atheists and the fact that it was the arabs who awttempted to annahilate israel repeatedly and that they were the ones who rejected the partition Plan which lead to the entire mess we know today and so on etc. I have to admit, I've never debated with someone with absolutely no knowledge of the region's history whatsoever like yourself. it's kinda refreshing.

richie65: To be certain, there were people living in that area before there was such a thing as the religion of David... By that standard, squatters rights go elsewhere regardless... Probably to the ancestors of some Bedouins I guess...

by all means, bring in the Canaanites, the Babylonians, the Philistines (not to confuse with the palestinians, very different people).
Bedouins are citizens of Israel. You didn't know that, did you..

richie65: The vulgarity of this whole thing is that the same methods (a mixture of religion, bullets and explosives) used to gain that patch of dirt are going to be the same methods used to try and take it back... The tragedy is that the Israeli government has encouraged its population to grow, thus magnifying the number of lives that will likely be lost when the surrounding countries have had enough. it's as if the concept has created a human shield to hide behind

OK now you're crossing the thin border from ignorant farktard into insanity.

richie65: Israel will continue the same game they have been playing for years... The only remotely amicable solution has them honor the U.N. resolution that pushes them back to the '67 borders... They manage to prevent that from happening by keeping the fires burning on the wrong side of that agreement

Sure, why not have all the israelis put on bathing suits and head west ? it has the same amount of sense to it.
How many times have i mentioned that the PLO, you know what that stand for right ? was established before there was a single settlement or any occupation ? before 1967 ? that Hamas consider all of Israel as occupation, all of it sea to river ? do you forcefully block these facts from your mind or you lie to yourself like you lie to me here ?

richie65: Actual peace talks would prevent them from keeping that pot stirred up.... They have no incentive for peace because it would also prevent the expansion required to address the population growth Israel continues to encourage

Yeah they pay us with blood soaked matzot for every jewish baby born. Twins get an extra bucket!
Do you have any basis for this insanity ? i would really like to see it.

TappingTheVein: No, I pointed out that talking to Israel about peace is a farce... I also pointed out that this type of futility is well documented... And YOU tried to be ButtHurt about it.

Nope, we weren't. We were discussing the UN specifically and i provided you with proof for my claim which you, of course, ignored.
A couple of posts later you mentioned peace talks, never providing evidence.

I'll just mark it as richie65's lie #7.

You really are lost here aren't you?

This

Then

You are convinced that the bulk of the Arab world is wrong... But that wont change the animosity they hold... And those numbers are growing.

All of the justifications and convoluted historical backlog you reach for is not going to answer for the stress Israel has inserted into the Middle East.

Nothing you point to says anything about the actualities. And The Israeli media is well known for refusing to report honestly about the internal and border conflicts it participates in.

I can't advocate violence... But the brew is heading that direction... All the while, Israel continues to encourage its population to grow.

This attitude is putting more lives at risk.... On all sides.

richie65: You really are lost here aren't you?

This

Then

You're the one who seems to be lost as i explained in length and you're the one who completely ignores my posts and evidence for some reason while displaying alarming ignorance of the conflict.

I'll ignore the fact that you skipped my posts and refuse to answer my questions and concentrate on one specific claim of yours which amuses me:
Please provided an explanation and proof for your claim that Israel encourages jewish population growth as an objective. You only ignored this question once so far.

TappingTheVein

Collectively the encouragement is (in my understanding of it) a core ideal within the different iterations of Zionism (the reverse of the diaspora)... Zion Returnees...

From Wikipedia these terms:
"Return to Zion" / שיבת ציון, Shivat Tzion, or שבי ציון, Shavei Tzion

- This perspective remains as any, and all Jews are automatically citizens of Israel and are welcome to settle in the 'Homeland' - It that not correct?

And specifically (against International Law) the encouragement to settle in the Occupied Territories (West Bank) in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949
Link (new window)

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

This is just one aspect of what the U.N. stands on... So I can see how that makes the U.N. look like a farce. (?!)

Link (new window)

Despite the ten month construction freeze that ended in September, the Jewish population in West Bank settlements, illegal under international law, grew by nearly 15,000 and now totals 327,800. These figures do not include the estimated 230,000 Jews living in annexed East Jerusalem.

No peace treaty yet has undone this travesty... And as long as Political Zionism and extreme Orthodoxy continue their agendas, it is unlikely future peace talks will fix this problem.

If it were otherwise, it is unlikely that there would be a reason for PLO, Al queda etc. (ad nauseum) to exist.

richie65: Collectively the encouragement is (in my understanding of it) a core ideal within the different iterations of Zionism (the reverse of the diaspora)... Zion Returnees

So you were talking about israeli citizenship rules, yes Israel got those like other countries. We call it Hok Hashvut, the law granting every jew the right, under some restrictions, to become an israeli citizen in the jewish homeland.
It's the rule who can become a citizen, like any other country. Israel has no intention of becoming another middle-eastern arab shiathole hence the intention to keep the current form of Israel as the jewish homeland. I believe the jewish population outside of Israel is much bigger, this encouragement doesn't seem to be working.

richie65: And specifically (against International Law) the encouragement to settle in the Occupied Territories (West Bank) in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949
Link (new window)

Direct your complaints to the arab armies who tried to eradicated Israel and failed. The West Bank is the result, a disputed territory used to belong to Jordan.

richie65: This is just one aspect of what the U.N. stands on... So I can see how that makes the U.N. look like a farce

Regarding this point they are factually correct. Israel did settle there. However you, for the 5th time, ignore the reasons why i consider the UN a farce which is explained by the link i provided which you repeatedly ignore.

richie65: No peace treaty yet has undone this travesty... And as long as Political Zionism and extreme Orthodoxy continue their agendas, it is unlikely future peace talks will fix this problem.

Go read about the 2000 Camp David summit, educate yourself.

richie65: If it were otherwise, it is unlikely that there would be a reason for PLO, Al queda etc. (ad nauseum) to exist.

Wrong. All of Israel is considered "occupation", sea to river. The reason there will never be peace in the near future is the inability of arab nations and their pawns, the palestinians, to accept the existence of the country of Israel.

TappingTheVein:

factually correct.

What? As opposed to factually incorrect?

You call it a fact but then proceed to try and argue it away based on a GIS for the term 'the UN is a farce'.

That's some fine detective work there Lou. Your reasoning is about as solid as hot wax!

Are you insisting that the '2000 Camp David summit' had reversed the crimes Israel is still committing?

What part should I be reading in order to understand how this was supposed to have happened?

No Arab Armies forced Israel to violate international law... Not that this observation will prevent it from being circumvented in order for such a lame assertion to be actually taken seriously. People believe what they want to believe... When it makes no sense at all.

Most Arabs have accepted that Israel is there... They insist that Israel fall back to the agreed upon '67 borders... Though just the opposite has occurred. Israel continues to encroach upon and take by force land that is not theirs.

Some people see a problem with this. I suppose that such a perspective depends on what side of that line you are on and / or how you feel about using deadly force to steal from others... Apparently you are O.K. with this.... I'm not.

Apparently you also interpret some things as 'factually incorrect'.... Speaks volumes about your view of reality... I LOL'd.

People believe what they want to believe... When it makes no sense at all.

richie65: What? As opposed to factually incorrect?

You call it a fact but then proceed to try and argue it away based on a GIS for the term 'the UN is a farce'.

Since this is the 4th time you don't bother actually reading the links i provided i'll give you a few examples why the UN is a farce:

UN Indifference to Gaza Rocket Attacks on Israel, UN flag at half-mast for ruthless dictator Kim Jong-il, The Farce known as the UN Human Rights Council, The UN Durban conference, UN's anti-semetism in general, U.N.'s appointment of North Korea as head of its Conference on Disarmament etc and so on.

I can go on for hours. Take your pick.

richie65: Are you insisting that the '2000 Camp David summit' had reversed the crimes Israel is still committing?

It was an example regarding your ignorance about peace talks, a summit where almost everything the palestinians demanded was offered to them which they, of course, rejected.

You seem to ignore for some reason that this conflict has two sides, not one. I mentioned Hamas and the PLO about 7 times and you completely ignored it for some reason, why is that ?

richie65: No Arab Armies forced Israel to violate international law

Nah they only attempted to annihilate Israel and lost territory as a result of their failure. That never happened before throughout history right ? am i right ? ...

richie65: Most Arabs have accepted that Israel is there... They insist that Israel fall back to the agreed upon '67 borders... Though just the opposite has occurred. Israel continues to encroach upon and take by force land that is not theirs

Too bad those arabs don't lead middle eastern arab countries and terrorist organizations like the one you have been ignoring for about 6 posts now. Go read the Hamas charter where they spell it out for you.

richie65: Apparently you also interpret some things as 'factually incorrect'.... Speaks volumes about your view of reality... I LOL'd.

The only factually incorrect bullshiat came from you as i explained repeatedly. Not to mention your ignorance of the events/history/politics of this conflict. Since you ignore major parts of my posts, the ones exposing your ignorance, it speaks volumes about your esteemed opinions.

richie65: People believe what they want to believe... When it makes no sense at all.

An adequate description of your knowledge regarding this conflict.