I think it was in a Bill Moyers episode that I saw a piece on the crumbling of suburbia. Basically what the people interviewed, town managers and such, were saying was that since more and more people were leaving the suburbs, they had to tax the remaining residents more to keep up a crumbling system of sewers, waterworks and roads. Since this drives more people away, they are unable to raise the funds to repair the system. Eventually it could lead to ghost towns full of houses that all look alike.

I'm kinda getting worn out on the Santorum thing.

Why that's socialism. The free market will fix all that sewage all by itself if we just let it.

HEY! Let's finance maintenance so that it costs 3x as more over the long haul! That will help!

sheilanagig: I think it was in a Bill Moyers episode that I saw a piece on the crumbling of suburbia. Basically what the people interviewed, town managers and such, were saying was that since more and more people were leaving the suburbs, they had to tax the remaining residents more to keep up a crumbling system of sewers, waterworks and roads. Since this drives more people away, they are unable to raise the funds to repair the system. Eventually it could lead to ghost towns full of houses that all look alike.

It also doesn't help that we've had forty years of declining manufacturing sector coupled with declining real wages for middle- and working-class peoples and a stubborn anti-tax ideology.

coco ebert: It also doesn't help that we've had forty years of declining manufacturing sector coupled with declining real wages for middle- and working-class peoples and a stubborn anti-tax ideology.

Here's what a friend of mine said when I linked it on G+:

"I saw an interview on this topic with a city engineer who said that 100 years ago, they installed pipes that were estimated to last about 100 years. Then, 75 years ago, they expanded the system with pipes that were estimated to last 75 years. Then, 50 years ago, there was even more expansion that included pipes estimated to last 50 years. So, everywhere in the country, there is this perfect storm of water pipes that are at or nearing the point of failure."

sheilanagig: coco ebert: It also doesn't help that we've had forty years of declining manufacturing sector coupled with declining real wages for middle- and working-class peoples and a stubborn anti-tax ideology.

Here's what a friend of mine said when I linked it on G+:

"I saw an interview on this topic with a city engineer who said that 100 years ago, they installed pipes that were estimated to last about 100 years. Then, 75 years ago, they expanded the system with pipes that were estimated to last 75 years. Then, 50 years ago, there was even more expansion that included pipes estimated to last 50 years. So, everywhere in the country, there is this perfect storm of water pipes that are at or nearing the point of failure."

We also have 1 in 3 bridges in this country unsafe to drive on, yet still being used, because nobody will pay for new bridges.

Republicans have made everyone think taxes are always bad, and because of that we have public infrastructure everywhere on the brink of collapse. And it won't get fixed. We'll collapse from our own stupidity, and it is absolutely the Republicans fault.

GAT_00: We also have 1 in 3 bridges in this country unsafe to drive on, yet still being used, because nobody will pay for new bridges.

Republicans have made everyone think taxes are always bad, and because of that we have public infrastructure everywhere on the brink of collapse. And it won't get fixed. We'll collapse from our own stupidity, and it is absolutely the Republicans fault.

And that's not accounting for natural disasters taking things out before time gets to them. I live in a city that had a 1000 year flood event last year, and it seriously damaged a lot of the bridges, as well as the water mains and the sewer lines and the electrical infrastructure. It means we don't have street lights in large swathes of town, or traffic lights. Instead they're four-way stops.

I shudder every time I drive across certain bridges, because I know they're unsafe. One of the bridges here on a bypass was being used as a way to get from one side of town to the other during the flood. The trip took hours when it would normally take minutes. Hundreds of cars sitting idle on a bridge that was taking hits from flood-borne debris and the water itself, when after the flood it was found that they just hadn't seen the damage while the water level hid it. We're just lucky nobody died.

sheilanagig: I live in a city that had a 1000 year flood event last year,

North Dakota? The Red probably won't give you one this year unless the Arctic Oscillation flips in the near future to the very low phase it was in early last year - it's very high now and that's why there is so little snow. But the next time it is that low, count on another 1000 year flood. Probably 3 to 4 years from now at the most.

And I have family in Nashville, which got a 10,000 year flood that basically everyone ignored. Natural disasters in TN, or man-made ones, always get ignored here. We also had the worst man-made disaster in the US a few years back that got no press and has since been eclipsed by the BP spill.

GAT_00: North Dakota? The Red probably won't give you one this year unless the Arctic Oscillation flips in the near future to the very low phase it was in early last year - it's very high now and that's why there is so little snow. But the next time it is that low, count on another 1000 year flood. Probably 3 to 4 years from now at the most.

And I have family in Nashville, which got a 10,000 year flood that basically everyone ignored. Natural disasters in TN, or man-made ones, always get ignored here. We also had the worst man-made disaster in the US a few years back that got no press and has since been eclipsed by the BP spill.

I live on the Mouse River. The boil order came when the water mains collapsed from the weight of the water on top of them. I remember the TN flood. Ben Folds took video of his street, and yes, it was ignored for the most part. The BP spill was undeniably bad, but it wasn't the same kind of threat to the infrastructure.

I really don't mind being taxed more to fix the roads and things like that, I use them, we all use them, and we should be able to trust that they are safe. But I will raise a stink if I have to pay to upgrade some municipal water or sewer system, they don't service me and I had to pay to put my own in. Everything I put into this well was like buying a new Toyota Camry. If I have to pay for someone's poop drain in the city, than I am owed a check.

sheilanagig: The BP spill was undeniably bad, but it wasn't the same kind of threat to the infrastructure.

Kingston coal ash spill. A volume literally 100 times bigger than the Exxon Valdez spill.

And yeah, the TN flood was news for a day or so. The national news liked the school floating down the highway. And then it all stopped. They're still trying to rebuild.

Well, it took 400 years for Rome to fall. Let's see if we can do it in 40. USA USA USA

GAT_00: Kingston coal ash spill. A volume literally 100 times bigger than the Exxon Valdez spill.

Ugh. Now that's a mess and then some. What did it involve to clean that shiat up?

Too bad the military needs all those billions to fight terrorists playing on jungle-gyms in the desert.

sheilanagig: GAT_00: Kingston coal ash spill. A volume literally 100 times bigger than the Exxon Valdez spill.

Ugh. Now that's a mess and then some. What did it involve to clean that shiat up?

Mostly just bulldozers and trucks and moving the stuff to somewhere in Alabama IIRC.

Ghastly: Too bad the military needs all those billions to fight terrorists playing on jungle-gyms in the desert.

That's very frightening. The U.S. should invade a country somewhere.

violentsalvation: I'm kinda getting worn out on the Santorum thing.

The sooner he drops out of the race, the sooner you can recuperate, you poor lamb.

sheilanagig: coco ebert: It also doesn't help that we've had forty years of declining manufacturing sector coupled with declining real wages for middle- and working-class peoples and a stubborn anti-tax ideology.

Here's what a friend of mine said when I linked it on G+:

"I saw an interview on this topic with a city engineer who said that 100 years ago, they installed pipes that were estimated to last about 100 years. Then, 75 years ago, they expanded the system with pipes that were estimated to last 75 years. Then, 50 years ago, there was even more expansion that included pipes estimated to last 50 years. So, everywhere in the country, there is this perfect storm of water pipes that are at or nearing the point of failure."

Bingo.

Everything east of the Rockies (well, all the Interstate system, and related bridges & adjacent support systems) was built during the Eisenhower administration, when there was a big push to link up the country with all our shiny new roads and shiny new money. They were built with good technology and good workmanship, and a guaranteed life expectancy of 50 years. It's been 60+ for nearly all of them.

Everything breaks down when the warranty expires.

Atlanta, I'm looking at you.

At least once a month there is a major gas or water main break. Sewer lines falling apart. It's insane.

And each mayor says they're going to do something about it until they get the bill. Then they freak out about their reelection and leave it to a predecessor.

They've stepped up on roads. We're good on roads. The roads are shaping up just fine.

Unless, of course, we can't drive on those spiffy new roads because they're flooded or could catch on fire.

A predecessor?

Really, SSB?

Go to bed, you ignorant slut.

GAT_00: Republicans have made everyone think taxes are always bad, and because of that we have public infrastructure everywhere on the brink of collapse.

Not only do people think that taxes are bad, they also think that they're high. On the federal level, the tax rates that people are paying today are lower than they have been at any time in recent history; you'd have to go back to before World War II to find a time when people were paying less in federal taxes. (Exception: There was a brief period in the late 1980s when the top tax rate dropped into the high 20s, but that did not last long.)

Despite this, if you ask people on the street, I suspect that many (if not most) of them will tell you that their federal taxes have never been higher. The way that the far right has been able to spread this myth so effectively is both staggering and frightening, and it bodes ill for the future of the country.

Obtuse_Otter: Do you require more lube?

DarwiOdrade: The sooner he drops out of the race, the sooner you can recuperate, you poor lamb.

I really dislike Rick Santorum and I think it is hilarious, don't get me wrong. I would just hate to see a great joke get overplayed.