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(The Jakarta Globe)   Right now, six people running for the job of the leader of the most powerful nation on earth are trying desperately to convince voters that they don't believe in science and won't govern based on it   (thejakartaglobe.com) divider line 511
    More: Scary, White House, Republican, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Utah Governor  
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23635 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2012 at 1:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-02 02:01:51 PM

Knara: "Hard atheism" is a religion. "Soft atheism", that is, "I currently see no evidence for a supreme being but if some is offered I will consider it," is not.

Of course, like with any religion, the "hard atheism" folks, ie, "god does not exist. period." get the most press.

But "hard atheism" is not a rational position, it is a religious one.


Yeah, just like it's a religion to say "unicorns don't exist. period" or "invisible pink dragons don't exist. period"
 
2012-01-02 02:02:26 PM

buckler: letrole: Atheism is a Religion

Le Troll is your surname.


Ha! I had forgotten about that.
 
2012-01-02 02:02:59 PM

Knara: Lordserb: The argument isn't 'ignore science', but rather accept and use science to explain the universe with the understanding that God exists and created it.

That isn't science, though. That is forming the conclusion and then forming only that data which supports your preformed conclusion.

Put another way: This is "Creation Science", which isn't science at all. In order for it to be science you would have to first observe that God exists, and we don't. So...


I would argue that just because you cannot observe something directly does not mean you can't perform science on it. The search for the "God" particle has been going on for a while now...yet they find zero proof that it exists. A better way to put it would be to say "in order for it to be science you would need to first observe evidence that God exists..."

The evidence then is the creation of the universe, though to be fair if you do not believe in God then you interpret that evidence as "the universe just randomly created itself."

Either viewpoint is valid from their perspective.
 
2012-01-02 02:03:04 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Hitler was also a painter, which invalidates all artists before or since.


I'm sorry, were there other painters who formed a system of government based on scientific principles, like Hitler did?

Because it is the forming the system of government that we are talking about, not his skill as a painter.
 
2012-01-02 02:03:19 PM
Religion is such a blight on the human species. I can't think any other single thing in all of human history that has inhibited our progress more.
 
2012-01-02 02:03:36 PM

Knara: "Hard atheism" is a religion. "Soft atheism", that is, "I currently see no evidence for a supreme being but if some is offered I will consider it," is not.

Of course, like with any religion, the "hard atheism" folks, ie, "god does not exist. period." get the most press.

But "hard atheism" is not a rational position, it is a religious one.


Christ, now you're setting up i-dont-know-what 'hard atheism,' 'soft atheism.'

RELIGION = MENTAL CONTROL THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO RITUALS

/f*cking religion is everywhere, I just got done congratulating some dumb b*tch on FB for miscarrying her fetus; ain't god grand?
 
2012-01-02 02:03:39 PM

Tenga: MurphyMurphy: Saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe the earth rotates around the sun.

It doesn't.


Actually, you're right. The Earth revolves around the Sun. It rotates on its axis.
 
2012-01-02 02:05:28 PM

Mr.BobDobalita: Believing in science is much the same as believing in God. Either one takes some degree of "faith" to make the puzzle fit. Personally, I believe there can be a co-existance of both, but I find the universe and all that has taken place to be too miraculous to have "just happened".


Christian here, but the above made me go lolwut?

It is not a system of faith based belief to know that 2+2=4. Science has theories as to the creation of the universe, but doesn't say "Okay, the Big Bang Theory is pretty cool, we'll just take it on faith that it is so."

Science is constantly searching for evidence to prove its theories, not faith.
 
2012-01-02 02:05:44 PM
Its time for Atheists to rise-up and take control of this situation before things get totally out of hand.
 
2012-01-02 02:06:30 PM

Lordserb: Not science, but the agressive forced interpretation of science that disallows God to exist.


That's nice, but as you are no doubt aware, most people's definition of "God" is married to a specific set of sectarian beliefs. And if the sectarian beliefs of half of Americans state that "The earth orbits the sun" or "Moderns species evolved from eariler ones" are statements that are at odds with their idea of God, then that's not really Science's problem.

DarnoKonrad: There is no objective truth, there is only a marketplace of ideas. Welcome to hell ladies and gentlemen.


I know I harp on him all the time here and no one pays attention, but if you want to understand where a lot of this type of political mindset comes from, you really should read some Francis Schaeffer. As you've probably read, he was a major intellectual voice behind the form of the "culture war" mentality that popped up after Roe vs. Wade, and Michele Bachmann credits him as being a major influence. He also subscribed to a weird, bastardized form of presuppositionalism which more or less claims that since everyone has a set of biases, it's not only okay but very important to be biased towards a 20th century fundamentalist protestant "worldview." In a little vignette that my dad brings up ad nauseum when discussing science that he doesn't like, Francis Schaeffer talks about how he refuses to allow an opponent to use the word "data" in debate, because it implies objectivity.

I lived among people who thought like this for a very long time, and it's quite sad, when it's not scary.
 
2012-01-02 02:06:54 PM
America. Give us your wealthy. Your educated. Your sane. Your entrepreneurs. Your scientists.
All welcome.
Signed The UK
 
2012-01-02 02:07:03 PM

JohnnyC: Religion is such a blight on the human species. I can't think any other single thing in all of human history that has inhibited our progress more.


Religion broke Johnny's imagination. I'd vote for the mosquito, but yeah, bad religion.
 
2012-01-02 02:07:11 PM

GungFu: Mr.BobDobalita: Believing in science is much the same as believing in God. Either one takes some degree of "faith" to make the puzzle fit. Personally, I believe there can be a co-existance of both, but I find the universe and all that has taken place to be too miraculous to have "just happened".

Fark me, that's some major mental derp.

A strong front runner for the derp of the year. Congratulations.


I don't think that's derp at all. When i was a Kid some workmen were renovating my Church, hanging a large decorative object over the Altar (that looked exactly like a pringle, what its symbolism was supposed to be I never knew) . As the Old Irish pastor of the church watched them install it, he opined that he thought perhaps the workmen weren't using thick enough cable and were using too few attachment points. Their foreman in mock horror said "father, where is your faith?" To which the pastor replied in his wonderful brogue "My son, I have deep and abiding faith in the fact that the Almighty created the laws of physics for a reason and that he will not fail to rigorously enforce them"
 
2012-01-02 02:07:13 PM
www.moviesonline.ca
 
2012-01-02 02:07:15 PM
The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources where focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections.
 
2012-01-02 02:07:25 PM
Meh, science schmience.
You should be really worried that they don't believe in math.
 
2012-01-02 02:07:48 PM

lookheremyman: America. Give us your wealthy. Your educated. Your sane. Your entrepreneurs. Your scientists.
All welcome.
Signed The UK


Your dentists.
 
2012-01-02 02:07:50 PM

AirForceVet: I'll just leave this quote here.

"No people can be both ignorant and free." ~ Thomas Jefferson


i.imgur.com

Mr. Jefferson needs to try telling that to 'real America.'
 
2012-01-02 02:08:22 PM

halfof33: cameroncrazy1984: Hitler was also a painter, which invalidates all artists before or since.

I'm sorry, were there other painters who formed a system of government based on scientific principles, like Hitler did?

Because it is the forming the system of government that we are talking about, not his skill as a painter.


And it has about as much to do with the Representative Republic we have in the US today as it does Hitler being a vegetarian painter. It's not as if the "scientific principles" Hitler used to justify the Aryan supremacy bullsh*t were repeatable, actual science. It was pure propaganda. There's a big difference.
 
2012-01-02 02:08:33 PM

Magorn: Rob3Fan: I believe in evolution and science.

I don't believe in the exagerated claims of human induced climate change.

Climate science has been politicised, and hence corrupted by politics.

SO here's the thing about that: let's say human's AREN'T causing the climate to change, let's assume for the sake of argument that it's sunspots or volcanoes or some damn thing.

You can't possibly argue that the earth ISN'T getting warmer right?

and even if humans aren't the responsible agent, you do understand that if warmer temps lead to arctic ice melt offs (as they seem to be) that the sea levels will rise, and if they do the coastal areas of the world will be flooded? And you further understand that about 90% of the human population lives in coastal areas?

Okay so even if we aren't the CAUSE, if drastically reducing greenhouse emissions will solve the problem they why WOULDN'T we do that?


Your logic falls apart here. People who don't believe in human-caused global warming would never agree with this statement. They don't think any change in our behavior will make a damn bit of difference so why bother inconveniencing them.
 
2012-01-02 02:08:40 PM

Lordserb: Either viewpoint is valid from their perspective.


Not really, not from their perspective.

Their perspective is:

You can't explain it! Therefore: GOD!

/which is a cop-out
//"I don't know and I don't want to know! GOD is wonderful! ... Except that time i miscarried my babby"
///he takes all the credit, gets none of the blame
..that god is one wacky character
 
2012-01-02 02:08:59 PM

lookheremyman: America. Give us your wealthy. Your educated. Your sane. Your entrepreneurs. Your scientists.
All welcome.
Signed The UK


I've tried. You feel like sponsoring me? You guys have something against Americans coming in without work.
 
2012-01-02 02:10:01 PM

halfof33: JohnnyC: Religion is such a blight on the human species. I can't think any other single thing in all of human history that has inhibited our progress more.

Religion broke Johnny's imagination. I'd vote for the mosquito, but yeah, bad religion.


Mosquitos have killed a great many people, but they haven't hindered our progress as a species. No mosquito condemned a man for suggesting the Sun was the centre of the solar system rather than the Earth.
 
2012-01-02 02:10:29 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Doc Lee: letrole: Atheism is a Religion

Christianity is a cult.

Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.


My hair is a bird.
 
2012-01-02 02:11:36 PM

Lordserb: discospinster: Lordserb: Not science, but the agressive forced interpretation of science that disallows God to exist.

It's hardly aggressive or forced.

If that were the case then schools shouldn't have a problem teaching creationism vs. evolutionism.


Which version of creationism? There are several.
 
2012-01-02 02:12:04 PM
Like a reverse of the cultures who's leaders and shamans understood the movements of the stars and planets and would use a total eclipse of the sun or moon to frighten their peasantry.
 
2012-01-02 02:12:17 PM

blazemongr: Man On Fire: What has science ever done for us?

The aquaducts?


Yeah, and look how things turned out for the Romans.
 
2012-01-02 02:13:18 PM
Ahh, 2012 America, where people will decry Einstein's theories of relativity as a secularist conspiracy, while simultaneously using their GPS units to get directions to the nearest Tea Party rally.
 
2012-01-02 02:13:39 PM
Had that article been about any other country, I would have shaken my head and tutted something about how much I pity the poor ignorant bastards. Instead I wept.
 
2012-01-02 02:15:08 PM

cameroncrazy1984: lookheremyman: America. Give us your wealthy. Your educated. Your sane. Your entrepreneurs. Your scientists.
All welcome.
Signed The UK

I've tried. You feel like sponsoring me? You guys have something against Americans coming in without work.


Seem to be lots of you round the Oxford area. I think some stayed on when USAF Upper Heyford closed, but I'm sure lots more must come to work.
Perhaps if the Republicans were to win the election, you could claim political asylum?
 
2012-01-02 02:16:35 PM

lookheremyman: Perhaps if the Republicans were to win the election, you could claim political asylum?


Pretty sure England has an extradition treaty...
 
2012-01-02 02:16:39 PM

jaylectricity: If this nation elects one of these anti-science types, I may just kill myself. Or move to Nigeria or something.


Nigeria? Please.
 
2012-01-02 02:18:18 PM

Mr.BobDobalita: Believing in science is much the same as believing in God.


No.
 
2012-01-02 02:18:30 PM

lookheremyman: cameroncrazy1984: lookheremyman: America. Give us your wealthy. Your educated. Your sane. Your entrepreneurs. Your scientists.
All welcome.
Signed The UK

I've tried. You feel like sponsoring me? You guys have something against Americans coming in without work.

Seem to be lots of you round the Oxford area. I think some stayed on when USAF Upper Heyford closed, but I'm sure lots more must come to work.
Perhaps if the Republicans were to win the election, you could claim political asylum?


I'm planning on visiting some of my friends in London in April for a stag do. I'm sure I could figure out a way to stay if I had to.
 
2012-01-02 02:18:42 PM
Unless I missed the story where the average american dragged themselves from the mud, stopped the cult worship and started respecting science, then this is par for the course for the last 60 years.
 
2012-01-02 02:19:49 PM

blazemongr: Man On Fire: What has science ever done for us?

The aquaducts?


Meh, The aqueducts was OK, I guess. But Men at Work and Breakfast Club were better.

i105.photobucket.com
 
2012-01-02 02:20:06 PM
Magorn:SO here's the thing about that: let's say human's AREN'T causing the climate to change, let's assume for the sake of argument that it's sunspots or volcanoes or some damn thing.

You can't possibly argue that the earth ISN'T getting warmer right?

and even if humans aren't the responsible agent, you do understand that if warmer temps lead to arctic ice melt offs (as they seem to be) that the sea levels will rise, and if they do the coastal areas of the world will be flooded? And you further understand that about 90% of the human population lives in coastal areas?

Okay so even if we aren't the CAUSE, if drastically reducing greenhouse emissions will solve the problem they why WOULDN'T we do that?


All that Climate Science can PROVE is that right now we are Warmer than when we are Colder, and we are Colder than when we are Warmer.

Everything else is just computer modelling and comparing proxy data. And unlike real science, the climatologists are not sharing their data and methods with those who would disagree with them. We are talking about a group who denied the existence of the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age.

I will not deny that certain trace gasses in the atmosphere will trap heat. But there is a limit to how much heat those gasses can trap, as they only work of relatively small portions of the EM spectrum. Everything else is positive and negative feedbacks which are guesses at best. The most imporatant feeedback mechanism is clouds, and we only have about a 10% confidence level on what they are doing. So Al Gore, Micheal Mann, Phil Jones and their cronies are telling you what to do based on computer models that are probalby about as accurate as reading tea leaves.
 
2012-01-02 02:20:26 PM

MurphyMurphy: Saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe the earth rotates around the sun.


Except. . . the Earth doesn't rotate around the Sun. It revolves.
 
2012-01-02 02:21:45 PM

Rob3Fan: So Al Gore, Micheal Mann, Phil Jones and their cronies are telling you what to do based on computer models that are probalby about as accurate as reading tea leaves.


Know how I can tell you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about?

You really should have run along earlier.
 
2012-01-02 02:21:57 PM
Doc Lee: Christianity is a cult.

Please don't feed the boring, unoriginal troll.
 
2012-01-02 02:22:25 PM

Rob3Fan: , the climatologists are not sharing their data and methods with those who would disagree with them


You've got to be kidding. No one could be so stupid as to seriously claim this.
 
2012-01-02 02:23:47 PM

El Pachuco: namegoeshere: Denying science is a way for those of lesser intelligence to feel equal (or even superior) to those more intelligent. It is far easier to say, "Science BAD because JESUS!" than to admit that they do not understand and are intimidated by those who do.

As 50% of the population is of below average intelligence, and as there is not minimum IQ required to register to vote, and as those who are least able to think and reason independently are the most easily led, pandering to the slow side of the bell curve is actually a smart political move.

Know how we can tell you don't know what a standard deviation is?


I do, actually. And I don't think you understood my post...

The "50% of the population is of below average intelligence" is a bit of a meme, btw.
 
2012-01-02 02:24:24 PM

Wyalt Derp: Mr.BobDobalita: Believing in science is much the same as believing in God.

No.


Actually, for a lot of people he's not too far off. Those with little to no science education have to rely on those who have a better understanding of it. Kinda like a minister or priest or rabbi or imam being relied on religion-wise.
 
2012-01-02 02:24:55 PM

Coco LaFemme: It's frightening that in the year 2012, there are people who don't believe in evolution, or at the very least, anything science-based. My mind literally cannot comprehend how someone like that can exist. I know why, but I don't know how.


why are they allowed to vote still?
do they believe in gasoline?
in oxygen?

seriously
we could have a one question voter test.
do you know that evolution is a fact or do you believe in the creation myth?
they answer the question and then they vote.

if they believe in creation, there vote is just not counted, but they are not informed of this FACT.
they dont need to be confused any more with facts.

/bwhahahaha - FARK I need some bfast
 
2012-01-02 02:25:04 PM

space_cowgirl: Had that article been about any other country, I would have shaken my head and tutted something about how much I pity the poor ignorant bastards. Instead I wept.


I loved your comment and agreed totally. Then I looked down the comment list, plucked out my eyes and put my head trough a wall to stop the insanity from leaking in....
 
2012-01-02 02:25:22 PM
As usual I will defer to XKCD

i44.tinypic.com
 
2012-01-02 02:25:23 PM

Rob3Fan: All that Climate Science can PROVE....


Science doesn't prove anything, ever, at all. Proof is a word left to mathematics, and people who don't know what they're talking about.

Evidence supports anthropogenic global warming. Evidence also supports the fact that the very same things we would do to reduce our impact on the global climate would also just be good ideas anyway.
 
2012-01-02 02:26:01 PM

SweetSilverBlues: Science is constantly searching for evidence to prove its theories, not faith.


Another thing about science is... once a flaw is found in the science and something is proven to be inaccurate, scientists (once learning that the theory is inaccurate) don't go around trying to desperately hold on to the incorrect theory but instead turn their attention to forming a new theory based on what they've learned. Religion, on the other hand, requires an adherence to the original religious doctrine that requires willful ignorance to maintain when portions of the religious doctrine are shown to be false.

Many religious people justify ignoring the unsavory and inaccurate portions of their religious "faith" by simply claiming that the religious text didn't mean what they said, or that those "customs" are just not applicable in modern times. However, despite knowing about serious flaws in their system of beliefs, they still hold that their religious belief is perfect and accurate (they like to use the term "divine").

Luckily, the number of people who don't believe in religious doctrine is growing faster than the amount of people who do. Perhaps in a hundred or two years we (as a species) will have outgrown religion.
 
2012-01-02 02:26:09 PM

jaylectricity: If this nation elects one of these anti-science types, I may just kill myself. Or move to Nigeria or something.


meh
you survived 8 years of bushtard, the dumbest thing to get elected.
no one believes that you are leaving
 
2012-01-02 02:26:41 PM

DarnoKonrad: AirForceVet: I'll just leave this quote here.

"No people can be both ignorant and free." ~ Thomas Jefferson

[i.imgur.com image 297x223]

Mr. Jefferson needs to try telling that to 'real America.'


I'm sure they scoff at the idea that a 50MPG CAFE standard will have any effect on US energy use.

Too Socialist to make us pay extra for our HEMIs!
 
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