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(Politico) Asinine Meet two campaign finance loopholes the size of Iowa   (politico.com) divider line 32
More: Asinine, Iowa, Rick Tyler, disclosure requirements, loopholes, GOP presidential, Mitt Romney, presidential primary, Iowa caucuses  
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2405 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Dec 2011 at 11:20 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



32 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2011-12-30 09:34:02 AM
SuperPACs are the greatest thing to ever come out of the modern political campaign process. Nothing says open, fair, and balanced elections and government like being able to funnel tens of millions into untraceable single candidate PACs. More than $250 million dollars will be spent this year by these PACs with no oversight or disclosure. Think of all the money that will be raised by groups outside of America and funneled into our election! It's an unlimited supply of funds that will only make the election process better for voters in the years to come!
 
2011-12-30 10:07:19 AM
"Super PACs are functioning as the alter egos of the campaigns, and their activity was clearly not anticipated when the statutes were put in place," said Ellen Weintraub, a Democratic FEC appointee.

Bullshiat. We all saw what happened to McCain/Feingold. You should have seen this coming a mile away.
 
2011-12-30 10:11:06 AM
Money = speech
 
2011-12-30 11:25:08 AM
Diogenes: "Super PACs are functioning as the alter egos of the campaigns, and their activity was clearly not anticipated when the statutes were put in place," said Ellen Weintraub, a Democratic FEC appointee.

Bullshiat. We all saw what happened to McCain/Feingold. You should have seen this coming a mile away.


This. I mean, seriously, not foreseen by what retards?
 
2011-12-30 11:25:51 AM
These are not "loop holes." According to SCOTUS they're constitutionally protected speech. Which is insane, but we need to be clear about the problem -- and it's not the law, it's how ideologues have decided to permanently subvert the 1st Amendment to protect monied elites at the expense of democracy. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.
 
2011-12-30 11:27:01 AM
When it comes to campaign finance, there are no loopholes.

There are only opportunities for responsible participation in our sovereign national (or local) political discourse: the inalienable rights of a free society of independent human beings.
 
2011-12-30 11:28:30 AM
WTF Indeed: SuperPACs are the greatest thing to ever come out of the modern political campaign process. Nothing says open, fair, and balanced elections and government like being able to funnel tens of millions into untraceable single candidate PACs. More than $250 million dollars will be spent this year by these PACs with no oversight or disclosure. Think of all the money that will be raised by groups outside of America and funneled into our election! It's an unlimited supply of funds that will only make the election process better for voters in the years to come!

Well, uh...um....at least it's pumping money into the economy? I mean, those ad dollars have to go somewhere, right? Money spent printing signs, buying billboard space, paying off election officials...that's money into a local economy, right?
 
2011-12-30 11:29:35 AM
DarnoKonrad: These are not "loop holes." According to SCOTUS they're constitutionally protected speech. Which is insane, but we need to be clear about the problem -- and it's not the law, it's how ideologues have decided to permanently subvert the 1st Amendment to protect monied elites at the expense of democracy. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.

So you're telling me there's a chance!
 
2011-12-30 11:31:38 AM
DarnoKonrad: It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.

A constitutional amendment is going to take a super PAC the size of China to have any chance at all in making it's way through congress against all the other super PACs fighting against it. And since unincorporated American People can't afford super PACs, this will never happen. America as we have known it is dead thanks to George Bush's activist hacks on the supreme court.
 
2011-12-30 11:33:25 AM
Sleeping Monkey: DarnoKonrad: It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.

A constitutional amendment is going to take a super PAC the size of China to have any chance at all in making it's way through congress against all the other super PACs fighting against it. And since unincorporated American People can't afford super PACs, this will never happen. America as we have known it is dead thanks to George Bush's activist hacks on the supreme court.




It's one of many things that make the future of a free America look very bleak.
 
2011-12-30 11:33:59 AM
Speech = Money. If you don't have money, you don't get to speak.
 
2011-12-30 11:41:30 AM
The Golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
 
2011-12-30 11:54:44 AM
WTF Indeed: SuperPACs are the greatest thing to ever come out of the modern political campaign process. Nothing says open, fair, and balanced elections and government like being able to funnel tens of millions into untraceable single candidate PACs. More than $250 million dollars will be spent this year by these PACs with no oversight or disclosure. Think of all the money that will be raised by groups outside of America and funneled into our election! It's an unlimited supply of funds that will only make the election process better for voters in the years to come!

Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?
 
2011-12-30 12:01:27 PM
Couple politicians experience, what was the headline, "Unsoliticed kinetic biodynamic reduction" and maybe some laws will change. I'm beginning to think it's the only way because "pick another name" until you're blue in the face, but they've gone to the ridiculous lengths now of outright refusing people to participate in the democratic process either through media manipulation or court challenges to tie up the process...what chance does a 3rd party have against a two party system that holds all the cards? ALL the cards! A 3rd party's only hope is to be a spoiler against one of the two evils, neither of which is really "that much" lesser anymore (though honestly the GOP is demonstrably more asinine in every approach).

I don't think we are going to see a shred of decency from the elected officials until a few of them get popped off, the rest of them overreach in the inevitable resulting crackdown and piss off the rest of the country.

I'm pretty cynical and pessimistic about the future at this point. It's all playing out like it was scripted from the beginning; the classic overreach of moneyed and powered elite interests disenfranchising enough people that the balance shifts, the platform flips upside down and a lot of people die.
 
2011-12-30 12:01:50 PM
imashark: WTF Indeed: SuperPACs are the greatest thing to ever come out of the modern political campaign process. Nothing says open, fair, and balanced elections and government like being able to funnel tens of millions into untraceable single candidate PACs. More than $250 million dollars will be spent this year by these PACs with no oversight or disclosure. Think of all the money that will be raised by groups outside of America and funneled into our election! It's an unlimited supply of funds that will only make the election process better for voters in the years to come!

Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?



Considering foreigners also have a freedom to speech in the United States, even if we found out, what's to stop them from invoking their first amendment rights? Nothing, if you take Citizens United seriously.
 
2011-12-30 12:02:33 PM
Unsolicited, even.imashark: Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?

They'd be idiots not to. This is a golden opportunity.
 
2011-12-30 12:12:15 PM
Elandriel: Unsolicited, even.imashark: Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?

They'd be idiots not to. This is a golden opportunity.


I echo these sentiments. If not to destabilize the USA they can buy a candidate's support now as easily as corporations.

Anyone who says that these results were unforseen is either lieing to you or mentally retarded. The same can be said of those who claim these loopholes were unintentional.

Those who passed this knew precisely what they were putting into law.
 
2011-12-30 12:14:54 PM
DarnoKonrad:
Considering foreigners also have a freedom to speech in the United States, even if we found out, what's to stop them from invoking their first amendment rights? Nothing, if you take Citizens United seriously.

Well, they might not want to be SEEN meddling in our internal affairs. You'd have to create a series of shell corporations or something, because "your" candidate would not look good if people found out they were bankrolled by an unfriendly power. I'm sure most politicians would be more than happy to help obfuscate their funding sources.
 
2011-12-30 12:15:47 PM
Didnt Obama set the record for spending from one of these? if not who? Curious

Both sides take turns bending over the public. Who will it be in 2012?
 
2011-12-30 12:26:11 PM
No Such Agency: DarnoKonrad:
Considering foreigners also have a freedom to speech in the United States, even if we found out, what's to stop them from invoking their first amendment rights? Nothing, if you take Citizens United seriously.

Well, they might not want to be SEEN meddling in our internal affairs. You'd have to create a series of shell corporations or something, because "your" candidate would not look good if people found out they were bankrolled by an unfriendly power. I'm sure most politicians would be more than happy to help obfuscate their funding sources.



Absolutely. But that's not my point. Right now there are laws against foreigners trying to influence our elections, but If money is speech, they have a *right* to influence our elections. And the prohibition on their participation is unconstitutional-- just as unconstitutional as arresting and imprisoning some Chinese immigrant for having a bumper-sticker that says "RON PAUL."

"Congress shall make no law . . .abridging the freedom of speech," is pretty clear, and there's no clause limiting it to citizens.
 
2011-12-30 12:34:05 PM
Freedom of political speech is the bedrock principle of American democracy. All campaign finance regulations should be scrapped ASAP.
 
2011-12-30 12:37:47 PM
$ome people are more equal than others.
 
2011-12-30 12:45:40 PM
DamnYankees: Money = speech

Yes, it does. (And if you don't want to take my word for it, the Supreme Court thinks so too.)
 
2011-12-30 12:49:37 PM
DarnoKonrad: These are not "loop holes." According to SCOTUS they're constitutionally protected speech. Which is insane, but we need to be clear about the problem -- and it's not the law, it's how ideologues have decided to permanently subvert the 1st Amendment to protect monied elites at the expense of democracy. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.

If any part of the Constitution has been "subverted by ideologues," it's the Second Amendment (until the Heller decision).
 
2011-12-30 12:53:17 PM
imashark: Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?

Why would they bother? George Soros has been doing a fine job all on his own.
 
2011-12-30 12:54:01 PM
DarnoKonrad: It's going to take a constitutional amendment to stop the coming plutocracy.

That's the easy way, anyhow.
So far, unemployment insurance and food stamps are successfully forestalling the alternative shortcut.
 
2011-12-30 12:59:30 PM
DarnoKonrad: Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?

Considering foreigners also have a freedom to speech in the United States, even if we found out, what's to stop them from invoking their first amendment rights? Nothing, if you take Citizens United seriously.


Either you haven't read the opinion in Citizens United or you are intentionally misrepresenting it.
from Wikipedia: "the decision did not overturn the ban on political donations by foreign corporations and the prohibition on any involvement by foreign nationals in decisions regarding political spending by U.S. subsidiaries, which are covered by other parts of [the McCain-Feingold Act]"
 
2011-12-30 01:36:52 PM
mike0023: DarnoKonrad: Anyone ever wonder if foreign intelligence agencies are using these SuperPACs to try to destabilize the USA?

Considering foreigners also have a freedom to speech in the United States, even if we found out, what's to stop them from invoking their first amendment rights? Nothing, if you take Citizens United seriously.

Either you haven't read the opinion in Citizens United or you are intentionally misrepresenting it.
from Wikipedia: "the decision did not overturn the ban on political donations by foreign corporations and the prohibition on any involvement by foreign nationals in decisions regarding political spending by U.S. subsidiaries, which are covered by other parts of [the McCain-Feingold Act]"


What about American Corporations run by Foreign Nationals? How hard is it to incorporate in the US if you are currently incorporated in, say, Saudi Arabia?
 
2011-12-30 03:43:39 PM
DarwiOdrade: Diogenes: "Super PACs are functioning as the alter egos of the campaigns, and their activity was clearly not anticipated when the statutes were put in place," said Ellen Weintraub, a Democratic FEC appointee.

Bullshiat. We all saw what happened to McCain/Feingold. You should have seen this coming a mile away.

This. I mean, seriously, not foreseen by what retards?


When pointed out that Citizens United would lead to something like this, here was Alito's response:

cnettv.cnet.com
 
2011-12-30 04:05:17 PM
mike0023: Either you haven't read the opinion in Citizens United or you are intentionally misrepresenting it.
from Wikipedia: "the decision did not overturn the ban on political donations by foreign corporations and the prohibition on any involvement by foreign nationals in decisions regarding political spending by U.S. subsidiaries, which are covered by other parts of [the McCain-Feingold Act]"


No, but organizations that receive money from foreign individuals are then free to spend more money on political advertising.

Much like how Planned Parenthood has to segregate their public money from abortion services, but still, the extra money frees up other resources to be used elsewhere.
 
2011-12-30 04:20:43 PM
DeaH: When pointed out that Citizens United would lead to something like this, here was Alito's response:

Technically, I'm not aware of any evidence of foreign corporations spending without limit since the CU ruling. Did I miss a piece on the politics tab?
 
2011-12-30 05:40:05 PM
abb3w: DeaH: When pointed out that Citizens United would lead to something like this, here was Alito's response:

Technically, I'm not aware of any evidence of foreign corporations spending without limit since the CU ruling. Did I miss a piece on the politics tab?


One of the points of the article is that we won't know, will we? There were certainly questions about the midterm elections, and I am not aware of any definitive answer to those questions. Are you?
 
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