Great, now what about this artificial Christmas hike that hasn't gone back down yet?

What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

Someone screwed up their spin machine or supported the wrong candidate.

MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

Does raising the price magically increase the storage capacity of the gas station?
If they're going to run out, they're going to run out, whether the price is $3.82 or 4.79. Demand for gasoline is pretty inelastic when there's a hurricane blowing through.

trotsky: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

How about supply and demand? If the supply is restricted the price goes up. If you keep your price artificially low.. especially through the law... the supply goes away.

That's the way it always happens.

So if you're hit by a disaster where resupply of gas will be delayed by a week, if the price is forced to remain low, everybody goes and fills their tanks and the gas goes away, and now nobody has gas.

INTERTRON: Demand for gasoline is pretty inelastic when there's a hurricane blowing through.

Not really.

If you have a half tank of gas and the price is $4/gallon you go fill up before the storm.

If you have a half tank of gas and the price is $10/gallon, maybe you decide you have enough to last a week.

trotsky: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

How about not patronizing unscrupulous businesses? How about organizing a boycott or posting negative feedback to discourage their customers? How about opening your own gas station in direct competition of them and charging what you feel is appropriate? Any of those would be nice.

I always tend to fill up before a big storm. Its common sense.

INTERTRON: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

Does raising the price magically increase the storage capacity of the gas station?
If they're going to run out, they're going to run out, whether the price is $3.82 or 4.79. Demand for gasoline is pretty inelastic when there's a hurricane blowing through.

The gas station is also going to run out of gas because of the increased demand and may not see their own timely resupply due to the storm, too. Shouldn't the hit taken from the lack of customers be factored into the price?

This reminds me of when one of the three hit Florida in 2004 (Charlie Francis Jean). Home Depot got sued for price gouging generators at 250% regular cost.

Also not exactly in line with my beliefs but while i was searching for archives of the Home Depot Lawsuit (couldn't find, only a bunch of forums from the time mentioning it), I came across this (new window) which cracked me up a bit.

INTERTRON: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

Does raising the price magically increase the storage capacity of the gas station?
If they're going to run out, they're going to run out, whether the price is $3.82 or 4.79. Demand for gasoline is pretty inelastic when there's a hurricane blowing through.

I'm going to comment for the Gulf Coast as I don't know how where the NE gets their refined product from.

But in order to *not* get charged with gouging the terminals restrict supply per jobber. With a normal supply and demand curve you would expect price to go up with restricted supplies, but most gas stations won't do this. So they run out.

With the Gulf Coast, you will not have new gasoline being refined for 3 to 5 days, and that's if a hurricane only comes close, not hitting. If it hits it could be longer depending on how much damage a refinery gets. They even shut down BEFORE the hurricane hits.


In this case, it seems that supply was restricted on the wholesale market and no price increases were passed along. So in this case I support the findings of gouging, but people need to be aware that if you can't raise the price, then you will run out of gasoline.

Which will result with those who didn't plan ahead running out of gas or not being able to go to work, etc.

Really MugzyBrown, is this where free market worship has taken us? To defending price gouging after a natural disaster? Come on man, learn to pick your fights.

MugzyBrown:
How about supply and demand? If the supply is restricted the price goes up. If you keep your price artificially low.. especially through the law... the supply goes away.

That's the way it always happens.

So if you're hit by a disaster where resupply of gas will be delayed by a week, if the price is forced to remain low, everybody goes and fills their tanks and the gas goes away, and now nobody has gas.

How about not violating the state's anti-gouging laws? We're not talking about supply side economics here, and the laws on this are pretty clear cut.

From the website of the Office of the Attorney General of New York: New York State law forbids those selling essential consumer goods and services - like food, water, gas, generators, batteries and flashlights, and services such as storm clean-up and disposal - from charging excessive prices during an abnormal disruption of the market.

Best of all, an open letter from the AG which pretty much made it clear that they were going to be watching them:

This open letter is addressed to anyone selling necessary consumer goods and providing essential services in the region to be affected by Hurricane Irene.
New Yorkers have and will continue to rely upon you for the items needed to prepare for the storm, as we all stock up on water, food, batteries, and other essentials. It can be a thankless responsibility and we all owe you our gratitude.
While most understand that customers are also neighbors, and would never think of taking advantage of others during such disruptive times, these circumstances always require an extra sense of vigilance and preparation
This notification should serve as a reminder to vendors and their consumers that state law prohibits price gouging at times when nature demonstrates its disruptive fury. The New York General Business law forbids those who sell essential consumer goods and services from charging excessive prices during what is clearly an abnormal disruption of the market. Those who do so will ultimately see a reduction in their profits, faced with penalties, fines and directives to set up reimbursement funds.
As Attorney General, it is my responsibility to enforce the price gouging law, and while it is my hope that I will not need to do so, my office is certainly prepared. We will review pricing data, and take such complaints filed with office seriously, as we do with any matter.
New Yorkers have always been at their best when facing adversity, and I am confident that we will live up to that standard throughout this hurricane.

Eric T. Schneiderman
New York State Attorney General

Translation - if you have an inordinate increase in the price of goods without a cooresponding price increase from your suppliers, and we get complaints about it, then you're getting a fine / going to court / etc.

Amateurs. The way to do it, [FLORIDA] style:

1. Open a gas station next to Orlando's airport
2. Jack up the prices all the time to $5.50+/gal
3. Profit

It's legal, because it's their normal price, not changed during emergencies. And it's been all sorts of fun watching the city try to get them to post street-visible signs.

fustanella: Amateurs. The way to do it, [FLORIDA] style:

1. Open a gas station next to Orlando's airport
2. Jack up the prices all the time to $5.50+/gal
3. Profit

It's legal, because it's their normal price, not changed during emergencies. And it's been all sorts of fun watching the city try to get them to post street-visible signs.

Do you live in Orlando currently? Is the Chevron on Colonial x Alafaya still .50 higher than every other station in the area? I think they used the same business model.

robbiex0r: Great, now what about this artificial Christmas hike that hasn't gone back down yet?

It's been (surprisingly) $2.99/gal here for almost 2 weeks now. Here being northern CO.

trotsky: How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

Who gave you the power to decide the prices of goods, commissar?

Look, raising prices on goods in short supply after a disaster serves two very real and necessary purposes, minimizing hoarding and attracting replacement goods from unaffected areas. When gas rises by a few dollars because the local supply chain has been disrupted it dissuades people from filling up every empty container they have, leaving more to go around for people who truly need to use it. Also, the jump in price makes previously uneconomical shipment methods into a profitable enterprise, attracting gasoline shipments from other areas. You want companies to send in gas-laden trucks in the hopes of making a profit!

trotsky: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

When scarcity happens (like a big pickup in demand or a drop in supply) you ration by raising prices or by running out, but you DO end up rationing one way or another. Personally, I'd rather have it done by price so that if I'm desperate I can still get it. Cheaper and unavailable is of no use to me.

meathome: Translation - if you have an inordinate increase in the price of goods without a cooresponding price increase from your suppliers, and we get complaints about it, then you're getting a fine / going to court / etc.

If I were an owner of an "essential consumer goods" establishment during some emergency, I'd be tempted to close down the business and start selling the stuff out of a van parked by the side of the road or on Craigslist. Try fining the black market Mr Attorney General.

: 1. Open a gas station next to Orlando's airport
2. Jack up the prices all the time to $5.50+/gal
3. Profit

Nevada style

Place gas stations 25 miles apart.

Jack up price by $1.50 - $2.00

/bonus, throw in some old decrepit stations without working pumps in between.

MugzyBrown: trotsky: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

How about supply and demand? If the supply is restricted the price goes up. If you keep your price artificially low.. especially through the law... the supply goes away.

That's the way it always happens.

So if you're hit by a disaster where resupply of gas will be delayed by a week, if the price is forced to remain low, everybody goes and fills their tanks and the gas goes away, and now nobody has gas.

If everybody filled their tanks, why don't they have gas?

SuperChuck: MugzyBrown: trotsky: MugzyBrown: What's better having gas cost $6 per gallon or having gas cost $4 per gallon but there's no gas left?

How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

How about supply and demand? If the supply is restricted the price goes up. If you keep your price artificially low.. especially through the law... the supply goes away.

That's the way it always happens.

So if you're hit by a disaster where resupply of gas will be delayed by a week, if the price is forced to remain low, everybody goes and fills their tanks and the gas goes away, and now nobody has gas.

If everybody filled their tanks, why don't they have gas?

Fuel Terminals go through a five/seven day cycle. Which means every five/seven days, they sell all the gasoline in their tanks to retailers. Which means that everyone in the city that terminal is located in buys gasoline on average on a seven day cycle. If everyone it town tried to buy gas at once, that seven day cycle is short circuited and there are shortages. Everyone tries to top off their tanks, but not everyone is able to.

State_College_Arsonist: trotsky: How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

Who gave you the power to decide the prices of goods, commissar?

Look, raising prices on goods in short supply after a disaster serves two very real and necessary purposes, minimizing hoarding and attracting replacement goods from unaffected areas. When gas rises by a few dollars because the local supply chain has been disrupted it dissuades people from filling up every empty container they have, leaving more to go around for people who truly need to use it. Also, the jump in price makes previously uneconomical shipment methods into a profitable enterprise, attracting gasoline shipments from other areas. You want companies to send in gas-laden trucks in the hopes of making a profit!

Oh, shut up. Just shut up, sit down and go back to your Fox News blog.

trotsky: State_College_Arsonist: trotsky: How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

Who gave you the power to decide the prices of goods, commissar?

Look, raising prices on goods in short supply after a disaster serves two very real and necessary purposes, minimizing hoarding and attracting replacement goods from unaffected areas. When gas rises by a few dollars because the local supply chain has been disrupted it dissuades people from filling up every empty container they have, leaving more to go around for people who truly need to use it. Also, the jump in price makes previously uneconomical shipment methods into a profitable enterprise, attracting gasoline shipments from other areas. You want companies to send in gas-laden trucks in the hopes of making a profit!

Oh, shut up. Just shut up, sit down and go back to your Fox News blog.

You look lost. This is the Business tab. Personal invective, lack of a coherent argument, herping, and derping are reserved for the Politics tab.

Right before a hurricane here in Florida, I saw woman pull in next to me in a sub compact car with 10 five gallon gas jugs to fill. I just had one for my little gen set.

I was appalled.

fustanella: Amateurs. The way to do it, [FLORIDA] style:

1. Open a gas station next to Orlando's airport
2. Jack up the prices all the time to $5.50+/gal
3. Profit

It's legal, because it's their normal price, not changed during emergencies. And it's been all sorts of fun watching the city try to get them to post street-visible signs.

Okay, it's legal, but if those big bad corporations make tons of money doing it, that is not legal?

I do so love how the libs here say it's okay for gas stations to do that, but when the "1%" corporations do it legally, it's "OUTRAGE!"

State_College_Arsonist: trotsky: How about not gouging your customers? That would be nice.

Who gave you the power to decide the prices of goods, commissar?

Look, raising prices on goods in short supply after a disaster serves two very real and necessary purposes, minimizing hoarding and attracting replacement goods from unaffected areas. When gas rises by a few dollars because the local supply chain has been disrupted it dissuades people from filling up every empty container they have, leaving more to go around for people who truly need to use it. Also, the jump in price makes previously uneconomical shipment methods into a profitable enterprise, attracting gasoline shipments from other areas. You want companies to send in gas-laden trucks in the hopes of making a profit!

Yeah, but supply lines and supply prices were never effected here. Your thought experiment never happened.

Gas station were gouging customers plain and simple. There were no supply disruptions to worry about. If a station was getting low, they just called for a refill sooner.