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(The Newspaper)   Georgia cancels new toll lanes after poll finds public support for them at 4%, with a margin of error of 5%   (thenewspaper.com) divider line 85
    More: Interesting, margin of error, I-85, unpopularity, Federal Highway Administration, Nathan Deal, Georgia DOT, Interstate  
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3714 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2011 at 11:12 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-29 11:58:59 AM

hosalabad: NO NO NO NO NO

The HOT lane was farking awesome.

I loved it so hard ripping past people who were stopped.


So get a buddy and share the joy with a friend in the HOV lane!
 
2011-12-29 11:59:00 AM

Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.


Link (new window)

Bite me.
 
2011-12-29 12:00:10 PM

bmr68: Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day


So, you're saying Houston fundamentally fails at what HOV lanes are meant to do...I hate to say it, but maybe they should ask Caltrans.
 
2011-12-29 12:01:45 PM

Tom_Slick: /MARTA BUS NSFW LYRICS


I love that song so much. It pops into my head every time I see one.
 
2011-12-29 12:02:12 PM

cubicdissection: Wait wait wait. The government ASKED what people wanted and LISTENED? Unpossible.

/sudden urge to move to GA


In Atlanta the HOT lanes are hot, HOT, HOT!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-12-29 12:03:02 PM

L33t Squirrel: But...if they don't get no tolls, then they don't eat no rolls. :(


It's very fascinating. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to hurt you.
 
2011-12-29 12:04:02 PM

Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.

Link (new window)

Bite me.


I seem to have found Paul Christoforo's FARK ID! Why don't you go educate yourself. I'm sure if you checked Georgia's public records, you'd find a similar situation. I know it holds true for California, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho and Oregon, so I have no reason to believe the pattern's going to be broken by some deep-south state.
 
2011-12-29 12:09:54 PM

Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.

Link (new window)

Bite me.

I seem to have found Paul Christoforo's FARK ID! Why don't you go educate yourself. I'm sure if you checked Georgia's public records, you'd find a similar situation. I know it holds true for California, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho and Oregon, so I have no reason to believe the pattern's going to be broken by some deep-south state.


Hence the Atlanta has gone full retard. They tried to fix the congestion problem and did the exact opposite because it wasn't planned well. Are all Portlanders such know it all pretentious jerks?
 
2011-12-29 12:17:03 PM

Baloo Uriza: I seem to have found Paul Christoforo's FARK ID! Why don't you go educate yourself. I'm sure if you checked Georgia's public records, you'd find a similar situation. I know it holds true for California, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho and Oregon, so I have no reason to believe the pattern's going to be broken by some deep-south state.


Probably should avoid calling someone Christoforo when your opening volley was to tell another poster that they had gone full retard. Pot, kettle, black and all of that.

Great pdf, and other than the pedantry in it over the use of the word 'improvement', there is a lot in there to agree with. However, the pamphlet itself says "user fees fund most highway expenses"; the roads in question here are interstates.
 
2011-12-29 12:17:09 PM

Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day

So, you're saying Houston fundamentally fails at what HOV lanes are meant to do...I hate to say it, but maybe they should ask Caltrans.


No HOV are/will still be free to 2+ drivers and motorcycles, but if you want to use them as a single driver it's going to cost you.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-12-29 12:22:13 PM
Baloo Uriza

That link you posted says user fees pay for 3/4 of "roadway expenditures."(*) Roadway expenditures include more than maintenance of travel lanes primarily used by motorized vehicles (e.g. sidewalks and new road construction).

In contrast mass transit normally has a greater than 50% subsidy of operating costs, with construction adding to that figure.

* Page 6, table 2. "Other funds" is 30% measured per dollar and 24% measured per vehicle mile. So more than 2/3 in either case.
 
2011-12-29 12:46:08 PM

whidbey: pxlboy: Yeah, nice try. The subway to nowhere. The reason Atlanta has jack sh*t for public transport is due to the people who *don't* use it constantly voting down referendums on expanding it.

Unfortunately, that's true practically everywhere. People aren't going to go for it unless they understand the long-term benefits, and right now, gasoline is so inexpensive, it's just easier to hop in their cars, I guess than be "inconvenienced" by something like a bus or a train...


Or it could be that when the SPLOST ideas around here (Atlanta) are agreed to, it's trolley cars in light traffic areas and moving sidewalks in blighted areas. Forget expanding the rail line to commuter areas, it's all about individual districts and keeping the federal highway money rolling in by repaving the highways with asphalt every 2 years.
 
2011-12-29 12:57:21 PM
I live in the city and reverse commute out to the 'burbs on I-85. The toll lane went into effect in October, eliminating the HOV lane and discourage carpooling, increased traffic emmensely, and are expensive beyond justification (I don't even want to know how much all of the useless infrastructure, signage and enforcement cameras cost to create this toll lane). It was an ill-thought out government program imposed on the state of Georgia by the feds, probably coupled with the irresistable offer of stimulous money.
 
2011-12-29 01:02:32 PM

Kelvis: I live in the city and reverse commute out to the 'burbs on I-85. The toll lane went into effect in October, eliminating the HOV lane and discourage carpooling, increased traffic emmensely, and are expensive beyond justification (I don't even want to know how much all of the useless infrastructure, signage and enforcement cameras cost to create this toll lane). It was an ill-thought out government program imposed on the state of Georgia by the feds, probably coupled with the irresistable offer of stimulous money.


THIS!
 
2011-12-29 01:06:19 PM

Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.

Link (new window)

Bite me.

I seem to have found Paul Christoforo's FARK ID! Why don't you go educate yourself. I'm sure if you checked Georgia's public records, you'd find a similar situation. I know it holds true for California, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho and Oregon, so I have no reason to believe the pattern's going to be broken by some deep-south state.

Hence the Atlanta has gone full retard. They tried to fix the congestion problem and did the exact opposite because it wasn't planned well.


You probably should have said that up front instead of going full retard, because you made it sound like tolling was stupid, which generally isn't if you actually like infrastructure to at least partially offset it's own costs. But yes, having some lanes free and some toll on the same roadway is just dumb. WSDOT seems to have missed this as well.

Are all Portlanders such know it all pretentious jerks?

I'm a Tulsan. Portlanders are nice, but good god stay out of the way of the Californian tourists who forgot how to go home when they've overstayed their welcome.
 
2011-12-29 01:08:25 PM

bmr68: Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day

So, you're saying Houston fundamentally fails at what HOV lanes are meant to do...I hate to say it, but maybe they should ask Caltrans.

No HOV are/will still be free to 2+ drivers and motorcycles, but if you want to use them as a single driver it's going to cost you.


Yeah, that's still a failure in implementation since it punishes HOV users who now get to share with people paying the fark-It tax instead of using the lane as intended to start with.
 
2011-12-29 01:09:12 PM

Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.

Link (new window)

Bite me.

I seem to have found Paul Christoforo's FARK ID! Why don't you go educate yourself. I'm sure if you checked Georgia's public records, you'd find a similar situation. I know it holds true for California, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho and Oregon, so I have no reason to believe the pattern's going to be broken by some deep-south state.

Hence the Atlanta has gone full retard. They tried to fix the congestion problem and did the exact opposite because it wasn't planned well.

You probably should have said that up front instead of going full retard, because you made it sound like tolling was stupid, which generally isn't if you actually like infrastructure to at least partially offset it's own costs. But yes, having some lanes free and some toll on the same roadway is just dumb. WSDOT seems to have missed this as well.

Are all Portlanders such know it all pretentious jerks?

I'm a Tulsan. Portlanders are nice, but good god stay out of the way of the Californian tourists who forgot how to go home when they've overstayed their welcome.


And you probably shouldn't go around being a half cocked dick.
 
2011-12-29 01:09:26 PM

Kelvis: I live in the city and reverse commute out to the 'burbs on I-85. The toll lane went into effect in October, eliminating the HOV lane and discourage carpooling, increased traffic emmensely, and are expensive beyond justification (I don't even want to know how much all of the useless infrastructure, signage and enforcement cameras cost to create this toll lane). It was an ill-thought out government program imposed on the state of Georgia by the feds, probably coupled with the irresistable offer of stimulous money.


You forgot the other part, the DOT saying "look we are trying" which I guess is better than "We've tried nothing and it isn't working" of course this is the same DOT that changed the GA400 I-85 north interchange and then changed it back in a week.
 
2011-12-29 01:14:43 PM

Last Man on Earth: Marta (our public transit system) is absolute ass.


Hey, now.. Speaking as a life-long resident, I have to say that's a totally unfair characterization. Marta would have to improve markedly to rise to the level of "absolute ass".

The trains are okay, but once you have to start taking buses to get somewhere, the suck factor rises a hundred-fold, especially if you have to go through the "un-gentrified" parts of town. .
 
2011-12-29 01:18:40 PM
I live in Atlanta. The tolls are between $3-5 dollars each way to ride 10 miles on weekdays. It's a big increase when there is a free lane a couple feet beside you. I drive the other toll road every day to counter commute, GA400, Which has 1 $.50 toll each way. Much more reasonable, and it is a convenience route on a limited access highway to get to North Atlanta, and is well liked.

The problem here is thinking money. The person whovsaid its not about revenue is full of shiat. GA Dot is broke because our republican leadership gives Tax breaks to close deficits, and spends irresponsibly on pet projects (10 million for a horse park in Sonny Perdue's rural hometown). Also the outstanding olympic racism of the locals here have tried long and hard to limit MARTA to keep minorities out of the suburbs. Republican Racist Retards pretty much caused all of this.
 
2011-12-29 01:32:32 PM

h0lmesdaddy: I live in Atlanta. The tolls are between $3-5 dollars each way to ride 10 miles on weekdays. It's a big increase when there is a free lane a couple feet beside you. I drive the other toll road every day to counter commute, GA400, Which has 1 $.50 toll each way. Much more reasonable, and it is a convenience route on a limited access highway to get to North Atlanta, and is well liked.

The problem here is thinking money. The person whovsaid its not about revenue is full of shiat. GA Dot is broke because our republican leadership gives Tax breaks to close deficits, and spends irresponsibly on pet projects (10 million for a horse park in Sonny Perdue's rural hometown). Also the outstanding olympic racism of the locals here have tried long and hard to limit MARTA to keep minorities out of the suburbs. Republican Racist Retards pretty much caused all of this.


Good points, but what makes it OK if it's the other side that does it? Do you really think a multi-million dollar trolley system in an area that already has mass transit is ok because of the symbols that are in front of the person's name that is pulling the trigger on it? If you're trying to play the blame game, blame people that refuse to stand up against their own political party and call out irresponsibility and corruption every time instead of only when they're not being served by it.
 
2011-12-29 01:43:34 PM

Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day

So, you're saying Houston fundamentally fails at what HOV lanes are meant to do...I hate to say it, but maybe they should ask Caltrans.

No HOV are/will still be free to 2+ drivers and motorcycles, but if you want to use them as a single driver it's going to cost you.

Yeah, that's still a failure in implementation since it punishes HOV users who now get to share with people paying the fark-It tax instead of using the lane as intended to start with.


in Atlanta HOT lanes did not force the HOV users into sharing. It eliminated the HOV lane and made it solely for toll users. What did they think was going to happen? I understand profitability and self sustainability by asking users to pay their fair share, but this reeked of greed.
There were commuters willing to car pool, in some cases to save money, and they get penalized monetarily by the DOT. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter how many people you have in a vehicle, just whether or not you're willing to pay out whatever the fee is (based on traffic levels,) welcome to the fast lane. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
2011-12-29 01:54:07 PM

Spoon over Marin: And you probably shouldn't go around being a half cocked dick.


img59.imageshack.us
 
2011-12-29 01:58:03 PM

Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: And you probably shouldn't go around being a half cocked dick.

[img59.imageshack.us image 413x413]


Ha. I feel accepted, now. :)
 
2011-12-29 02:04:33 PM
Be part of the 1 percent. Use the HOT lanes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-12-29 02:34:57 PM
HiFiGuy: Be part of the 1 percent. Use the HOT lanes.

Aka "Lexus Lanes"
 
2011-12-29 02:42:26 PM

Spoon over Marin:
in Atlanta HOT lanes did not force the HOV users into sharing. It eliminated the HOV lane and made it solely for toll users. What did they think was going to happen? I understand profitability and self sustainability by asking users to pay their fair share, but this reeked of greed.
There were commuters willing to car pool, in some cases to save money, and they get penalized monetarily by the DOT. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter how many people you have in a vehicle, just whether or not you're willing to pay out whatever the fee is (based on traffic levels,) welcome to the fast lane. It doesn't make a lot of sense.


Isn't it toll free for 3+ occupants?
/ not counting the $20 setup fee for the PeachPass, per car
/ and the discouraging redefinition of HOV from 2+ to 3+ occupants
/ and the hassle of having to "call ahead" to set your Pass to HOV

// I agree the HOT conversion is a senseless move .
 
2011-12-29 02:44:35 PM

GTATL: Whidbey- just shut up before this gets ugly. You're out of your element. You don't have any understanding of the situation. This isn't portlandia.


Um. fark off?
 
2011-12-29 03:02:38 PM

whiff of bile:

Isn't it toll free for 3+ occupants?
/ not counting the $20 setup fee for the PeachPass, per car
/ and the discouraging redefinition of HOV from 2+ to 3+ occupants
/ and the hassle of having to "call ahead" to set your Pass to HOV

// I agree the HOT conversion is a senseless move .


Yes it is 3+. My gaffe.
 
2011-12-29 03:50:49 PM

h0lmesdaddy: I live in Atlanta. The tolls are between $3-5 dollars each way to ride 10 miles on weekdays. It's a big increase when there is a free lane a couple feet beside you. I drive the other toll road every day to counter commute, GA400, Which has 1 $.50 toll each way. Much more reasonable, and it is a convenience route on a limited access highway to get to North Atlanta, and is well liked.

The problem here is thinking money. The person whovsaid its not about revenue is full of shiat. GA Dot is broke because our republican leadership gives Tax breaks to close deficits, and spends irresponsibly on pet projects (10 million for a horse park in Sonny Perdue's rural hometown). Also the outstanding olympic racism of the locals here have tried long and hard to limit MARTA to keep minorities out of the suburbs. Republican Racist Retards pretty much caused all of this.


They haven't been near $5 since the first two weeks...typically under $2. I ride GCT, so I don't give a fark what it costs.

Also, MARTA is run like shiat by a bunch of tards and keeps wanting to move into a county with a fairly high turnover of residents. Exactly why would Gwinnettians want to pay for it?
 
2011-12-29 04:00:36 PM

Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Baloo Uriza: bmr68: Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day

So, you're saying Houston fundamentally fails at what HOV lanes are meant to do...I hate to say it, but maybe they should ask Caltrans.

No HOV are/will still be free to 2+ drivers and motorcycles, but if you want to use them as a single driver it's going to cost you.

Yeah, that's still a failure in implementation since it punishes HOV users who now get to share with people paying the fark-It tax instead of using the lane as intended to start with.


Time will tell about the I-45 and I-59 HOV plan. I-10 was redesigned a few years back and the HOV are much wider.
 
2011-12-29 04:08:45 PM

Baloo Uriza: Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.


It costs $200 for them to send me a bill and then mail me a sticker? If they issue a new plate you get to pay $15 (I think) in Georgia for it. So no, I think they get revenue from it. Maybe not from the boat trailer I had when it was $12.15/year to have a sticker on it.

I live in Cobb County. The nearest bus stop from my house (which has been here since 1969) is I think 3 miles, if not 5 miles.

Originally, the I-75 project was going to have 2 truck lanes added each direction and then 2 HOV/T lanes each direction that also had Bus Rapid Transit on it that would tie into the Art Center MARTA station. But that was a Billion Dollar (pinky in mouth) project.
 
2011-12-29 06:31:23 PM
The toll arrangement was the Libertarian solution, right? Reduce taxes and pay individually for services used.

We couldn't even handle one lane being managed under the Libertarian system. Imagine if the whole highway, or the whole country were run that way.
 
2011-12-29 06:36:01 PM
The other brilliant part of the HOV to HOT conversion is that it costs something like $100 million to do the conversion so they could collect tolls.

And a 15 minute notification that you are driving with 3+ people? What is it transmitted by, telegraph?

GRTA was shocked... SHOCKED... that people would switch to side roads instead of paying $100/month to drive on lanes that already existed and were already paid for.

At least with the 75/575 project it would have meant additional lanes.
 
2011-12-30 03:06:39 AM
Drove thru gwinett for the first time in a few months today. God was it awful. Next time, I think I'll take the scenic route across the northern part of the state.... Took 30 minutes to go 2 miles on 85, meanwhile the HOT lane is dead empty except for an occasional bus. Going to a wedding in Lawrenceville in March, at least it will be on a weekend

/ would have used HOV if it had been there, 4 in the car
// chaperoning church group to nights of lights @ lanier
/// 2 girls in back seat doing their best imitation of Flipper's vocals.... shoot me
 
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