Isn't driving through Atlanta toll enough??

Why is that car in the HOV lane circled in yellow?

Hey maybe the federal government will catch on and we can cancel Congress.

What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

Wait wait wait. The government ASKED what people wanted and LISTENED? Unpossible.

/sudden urge to move to GA

>> Georgia cancels new toll lanes after poll finds public support for them at 4%, with a margin of error of 5%
___________________________________

That ain't gonna save people living in Georgia.

You end up dumber just by passing through the state.

"Georgia cancels new toll lanes after poll finds public support for them at 4%, with a margin of error of 5%"

the derp is strong in Georgia

whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

I'm way too lazy to look it up; is this the project that would have tied GDOT's hands and prevented them from making improvements to public roads?

Atlanta hasn't had any new roads built in the last 20 years or so, and the traffic isn't getting any lighter.

/next time I go to Florida, I'm going through Alabama.

Yes, yes that's all well and good, but what about the Troll Toll?

m1ke: Why is that car in the HOV lane circled in yellow?

to point out that even though everyone else is stuck in traffic that guy is getting where he needs to go by paying out the ass.

that being said as a atlanta area resident, i find joy in driving through atlanta.... as long as its after 10 PM and before 6 AM.... sundays are usually not bad.

It looks like GDOT tried to just put transponder readers on the innermost lane of I-85 without physically separating it from the regular-use lanes. That's a failure from the start; what happens is traffic is constantly getting in and out of that lane to reach an exit ramp, or crossing the regular-use lanes to get to the HOT lane after getting on the interstate. That always slows down traffic, and then there's the fear factor; if you're in the lane right next to the HOT lane, a vehicle in the HOT lane could at any moment have to get in your lane to reach the next exit, so you slow down 'just in case'.

VDOT did their HOT/HOV lanes on I-95 the correct way; widen out the interstate enough to put in barriers and dedicated exit/entrance ramps to specific interchanges, and tolled vehicles when they entered the lane. Of course that also cost a lot more than GDOT's plan, but it also works.

whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

Here's what happened. They took an HOV lane that was already paid for and free to anybody with 2 or more people in their car and converted it to a toll lane. In this case, it was absolutely theft.

It looks like Georgia people sure love their socialist public roads. No bootstrappy neoliberalism for them.

I read it as "canceled a high-priority trolling project"

But...if they don't get no tolls, then they don't eat no rolls. :(

"I ain't payin' no gosh durn moneys on them there roads until the toll houses gets me some of them there good cookies what that I like."

Well - enjoy sitting in endless traffic.

theMightyRegeya: Atlanta hasn't had any new roads built in the last 20 years or so, and the traffic isn't getting any lighter.

If only we had another means of getting people around...

whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

Far from it, and I can see you're not from Georgia. The lanes in question already existed as High Occupancy Vehicle lanes, restricted to cars with multiple passengers. The entire point of the lanes was to encourage carpooling and help relieve the ridiculous levels of congestion on GA highways. By switching those to paid-only lanes, they were effectively making congestion even worse than it had been before by taking a lane away, while offering those with money what amounted to their own private lane to avoid it. If they'd built a new lane and charged a toll for it, that would be one thing, but effectively taking away an existing one was absurd.

whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

How dare people want the government to be accountable to the opinions of the people! They should just shut up and let their superiors dictate to them the way things will be (for the greater good).

Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

Here's what happened. They took an HOV lane that was already paid for and free to anybody with 2 or more people in their car and converted it to a toll lane. In this case, it was absolutely theft.

People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

Yukon Callmeal: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

How dare people want the government to be accountable to the opinions of the people! They should just shut up and let their superiors dictate to them the way things will be (for the greater good).

They can whine all they like. The government sucks for capitulating to them. And it's "the greater good:" we're talking about.

Or do you believe that mostly single-occupant vehicles don't have a significant impact on metropolitan communities? and that drivers shouldn't have to offset usage?

whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

Here's what happened. They took an HOV lane that was already paid for and free to anybody with 2 or more people in their car and converted it to a toll lane. In this case, it was absolutely theft.

People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

The HOV lanes have always been heavily used. The ones that were converted to toll lanes have been virtually deserted.

whidbey: theMightyRegeya: Atlanta hasn't had any new roads built in the last 20 years or so, and the traffic isn't getting any lighter.

If only we had another means of getting people around...

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[photography.mojado.com image 300x200]

Okay, now I REALLY know you've never been anywhere near Atlanta. Marta (our public transit system) is absolute ass. It features 2-3 rail lines with ~15-20 stops featured along a very basic cross shape, and doesn't go anywhere outside of metro Atlanta. Public transport is great if it's actually viable, but in Atlanta's case, it would need shiatloads of work to reach that point. I would LOVE it if they did, but Georgians just aren't willing to go for it. It's one of many reasons I'm looking to get out and move somewhere decent.

NO NO NO NO NO

The HOT lane was farking awesome.

I loved it so hard ripping past people who were stopped.

whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: Ron Mexico's Revenge: whidbey: What a bunch of sh*t. You don't poll whether toll lanes are "popular" or not.

That's right. You create a situation where there is increased congestion and then take money from the people that can afford to pay to avoid the congestion that you created. It's for the greater good.

Let me guess:

Taxation=theft
amirite?

Here's what happened. They took an HOV lane that was already paid for and free to anybody with 2 or more people in their car and converted it to a toll lane. In this case, it was absolutely theft.

People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

Houston lets single drivers use HOV lanes on I-10 at staggered rates during the day. They are also planning to expand it to I-59 and I-45 HOV lanes in 2012. Working ok, so far.

whidbey:

People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

The lanes were filled to capacity as well as the general lanes. Except the people in the HOV had 2 or more passengers in them whereas the general lanes usually only have 1 person. Now all those people who filled the HOV lanes are stuck in the general lanes and therefore adding to the massive traffic increase. The HOV lane went from about 90% utilization to 1% during peek times and 0% during all other times.

But if you have 3 or more people in your car and you call ahead to a special number at least 15 minutes in advance to give them your license plate you could then use the new lane.

The entire project and outcome was asinine but what can you expect from the same Governor that voted to keep the 400 toll after it was paid off.

Last Man on Earth: Public transport is great if it's actually viable, but in Atlanta's case, it would need shiatloads of work to reach that point.

That's true of anywhere. It's a major investment. But somehow San Francisco, Seattle and Portland manage, despite major opposition from people who feel they have the "right" to drive.

I would LOVE it if they did, but Georgians just aren't willing to go for it. It's one of many reasons I'm looking to get out and move somewhere decent.

Sorry to hear that it's that frustrating to you that you feel you need to move. Do you know of any activism that's going on in Atlanta?

White cars go in this lane. Black cars go in that lane.

whidbey: Here's what happened. They took an HOV lane that was already paid for and free to anybody with 2 or more people in their car and converted it to a toll lane. In this case, it was absolutely theft.

People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

No, people used them religiously. Atlanta gets a lot of thru traffic. Most travel in the state at some point runs through Atl. Now every family, school, church, or whatever van/bus on a trip has to stay with the regular flow of congested traffic, adding to the problem.

Especially when these lanes, which had been used as HOV lanes for many years, seemingly changed overnight without much pomp and no one from outside of Atlanta knew about it.

I have to commute in ATL everyday to work, and i love the toll lanes. Traffic is going to suck regardless, but if I am running late or need to make it to an appointment, i can opt to use the toll lanes and get their in a hurry. It normally costs around 2 dollars for my trip and that is absolutely worth it to avoid sitting in traffic 30 minutes. Not that i use it every time, but when i need it, its there.

whidbey: Or do you believe that mostly single-occupant vehicles don't have a significant impact on metropolitan communities? and that drivers shouldn't have to offset usage?

I think that single-occupant vehicles have a significant impact on metropolitan communities.

I think that toll roads almost never work as well as central planners envision.

I think that drivers do offset usage, with the taxes they pay on vehicles and with the taxes they pay on gasoline. You want them to pay more? Raise the gas tax, rather than engaging in a very expensive construction project that makes the problem it is supposedly trying to solve worse.

That's like saying "We need to raise taxes or we collapse" and then canceling that idea because none of the citizens want their taxes raised.

Have fun with your shiatty roads, GA!

Spoon over Marin: Good. I'm tired of Atlanta going full retard.

And yet, you just did. Gas taxes barely cover a third of maintenance costs for motorist infrastructure. Registration fees cover the cost of processing the registration and issuing plates. Enjoying the luxury of having a personal motor vehicle? Thank a transit user, bicyclist or truck driver. They're sponsoring your splendor.

Time Traveling Bunnies: People weren't using the HOV lanes at all, I'm guessing?

No, people used them religiously. Atlanta gets a lot of thru traffic. Most travel in the state at some point runs through Atl. Now every family, school, church, or whatever van/bus on a trip has to stay with the regular flow of congested traffic, adding to the problem.

Especially when these lanes, which had been used as HOV lanes for many years, seemingly changed overnight without much pomp and no one from outside of Atlanta knew about it.

Well then, that's kind of lame. I'm noticing in TFA there is no mention of the transition from HOV to HOT.

Seems like if the lanes were used the way they were intended, they shouldn't have been converted. But then again, maybe it doesn't matter, since the impacts of constant commuter driving probably outweigh the luxury of "free" lanes.

pxlboy: Yeah, nice try. The subway to nowhere. The reason Atlanta has jack sh*t for public transport is due to the people who *don't* use it constantly voting down referendums on expanding it.

Unfortunately, that's true practically everywhere. People aren't going to go for it unless they understand the long-term benefits, and right now, gasoline is so inexpensive, it's just easier to hop in their cars, I guess than be "inconvenienced" by something like a bus or a train...

theMightyRegeya: Atlanta hasn't had any new roads built in the last 20 years or so, and the traffic isn't getting any lighter.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Build more transit, and more people will take transit. Add bicycle lane miles, and more people will make that corner store run by bike. Add HOV lanes, more people carpool. Add more car lanes, more people drive. It's a path of least resistance thing. Give people more than one tool, and people will pick the best tool for the task.

GreatBunzinni: It looks like Georgia people sure love their socialist public roads. No bootstrappy neoliberalism building-their-own-highways for them.

whidbey: Well then, that's kind of lame. I'm noticing in TFA there is no mention of the transition from HOV to HOT.

Seems like if the lanes were used the way they were intended, they shouldn't have been converted. But then again, maybe it doesn't matter, since the impacts of constant commuter driving probably outweigh the luxury of "free" lanes.

It's like the city has tons of good ideas but never finishes any of them. MARTA could be great if they expanded (despite the complaints a lot of people do use it for inner-city travel, especially those who live near stations), a toll lane would be affordable and convenient if it was better planned and didn't destroy an already existing convenience, and travel through Atlanta wouldn't be so bad if they didn't do things like shutting off 4 of 6 lanes on I-75 for construction on the Sunday of a holiday.

Last Man on Earth: Okay, now I REALLY know you've never been anywhere near Atlanta. Marta (our public transit system) is absolute ass.

Hey now MARTA will take you to the Jail and to the Airport, but not Turner Field.....

In fact that should show you the planing of the Georgia DOT, the Original Stadium (Which was across the street from Turner Field) was built before MARTA but they did not to take the rail line past it since there was plenty of parking. In fact when planning the MARTA Rail Line it seems as if it was built to alleviate parking issues rather than traffic.

/MARTA BUS NSFW LYRICS

We home school our little girl so I can ride in the HOV lane to our customers.